The Typecast: Grow Your Art Business

Hosted by Katie Johnson and Ilana Griffo of Goodtype

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Jun 2026

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Dear hand letterers, designers, and artists of all sorts—despite what your grandma thinks, we know there’s a whole lot more to what you do than just “drawing pretty pictures.” This podcast, hosted by Katie Johnson and Ilana Griffo of Goodtype, is about what it *really* means to be a working creative. From finding clients to pricing your work and nerding the heck out about kerning, we’re covering everything that goes into building a successful and sustainable business around your passion. And we’re not just doing it alone! We’ll be tapping some of your current (and soon-to-be) favorite artists for inspiration, insight, and laughs. We’re big on giving takeaways that you can actually put into action, and we’re even bigger on having a good time while we do it. Tune into the Typecast twice a month for a tittle-ating time (yep, we’re gonna type-pun your face off), and don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review so we can show our moms how famous we are!

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August 11, 2026Episode 7451 min

What If You Quit Your Job for a One-Month Freelance Gig with Christina Kwiek | The Typecast Episode 74

Send us Fan MailWe’re back from a little hiatus, and we’re kicking things off with Christina Kwiek of X and Co., a lettering, illustration, and branding studio based in Brooklyn.Christina walks us through her path from a childhood spent training as a ballerina to a last-minute pivot into art school, and how she’s found her way back to ballet as an adult, just for the joy of it. We get into the reality of freelancing for the last 8 years: the moment she quit a full-time job for a one-month freelance gig, the ebbs and flows that never fully go away, and how her slow seasons have actually led to some of her biggest projects. If you’ve ever wondered whether you have to hustle nonstop or post every day to build a creative business, this episode is a really honest look at another way to do it. All that and more when you listen to this episode:Christina’s jump from ballet to art schoolWhy she quit her job for a one-month freelance contractThe ebbs and flows of 8 years of freelancingHow slow seasons have led to her biggest projectsInside her business: branding, murals, and licensingWhere her clients actually find her (Instagram, Pinterest, and cold outreach)How cold outreach has changed, and why she still does itWhy she stepped back from posting and treats Instagram like a portfolioFinding cohesive creative style without forcing itConnect with Christina KwiekInstagramMentioned in this episode:X and Co. The Kernference 2026 Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts Subscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtype @ilanagriffoKeep the conversation going on SlackLearn more about Art Licensing with GoodtypeGrow your art licensing portfolio with 5 free prompts!Grab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!Connect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

June 23, 2026Episode 7347 min

What If Your Subtitles Could Express Emotion? With Frederik Merkel | The Typecast Episode 73

Send us Fan MailWhat if your subtitles could whisper or shout, just like the person speaking? That’s exactly what Frederik Merkel (aka Freddi) is building. We met Freddi at South by Southwest and were instantly blown away by his startup, Phont, which is developing expressive caption technology that analyzes audio and translates it into dynamic, emotionally-expressive subtitles. Think kinetic type but automated, accessible, and built for real content.In this episode, we dig into the full story: how Freddi went from finishing a master’s thesis in type design to co-founding a startup with no business experience and what it really takes to go from concept to product. We also get deep into the neuroscience side of things: synesthesia, aphantasia, the Ira Glass gap, and how understanding different brains perceive the world shaped Freddi’s research from the very beginning.All that and more when you listen to this episode:How Freddi’s master’s thesis became a startup ideaWhat expressive captions are and why they matterThe transition from type designer to co-founderHow Phont navigated public funding in GermanyBuilding demos without a parametric font (yet)The Phont Adobe plugin that’s coming soonSynesthesia research and how it shaped the font design processHow to support or pilot Phont right nowConnect with Frederik MerkelPhont: https://phont.ai/ Phont on IG: https://www.instagram.com/phont.official/ Freddi on IG: https://www.instagram.com/freddimerkuri/ Freddi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederik-merkel-design/ Mentioned in this episode:Phont: https://phont.ai/Michael Havakamp - Synesthetic DesignMelanie Scheer - AphantasiaOHno Type CompanyConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

June 2, 2026Episode 7256 min

What If Your Whole Career Was Just Practice for the Work You Were Meant to Do? with Jeanetta Gonzales | The Typecast Episode 72

Send us Fan MailShe’s been a fine art major, a print designer, a Barbie packaging designer at Mattel, a surface pattern designer, an art licensing exhibitor, and, for the past 10 years, an artist coach. In this episode, we sit with Jeanetta Gonzales, Ilana’s first art licensing mentor, for a conversation that goes way beyond business strategy. We’re talking about the long, winding road of building a creative career, what it was actually like to exhibit at art licensing trade shows, and why the seeds you plant at a show might not sprout for years.Jeanetta also shares all about her brand new book series, Free Pass, four illustrated coupon books published with Chronicle that are essentially permission slips for creatives, workers, resters, and parents. The creativity book was born directly out of her coaching work after she noticed that the moment she gave an artist the green light, everything changed.If you’ve felt stuck in a creative funk, wondered if your winding career path was “wrong,” or needed someone to just give you permission to rest, this one’s for you.All that and more when you listen to this episode:How Jeanetta went from UCLA fine art major to Barbie packaging designer at MattelStumbling into art licensing and what Surtex was (and why it mattered)Whether art licensing trade shows are still worth it, and what the long game really looks likeWhat it’s actually like to design and work on a trade show booth The story behind her new book series, Free PassHow she illustrated 72 pieces in the middle of a cross-country moveWorking with ADHD: procrastination, pressure, and finally getting it doneWhy your environment has more impact on your creativity than you thinkBeing honest about being in a creative funk, and not rushing to fix itHer plans to rebrand for the first time in 10 years Connect with Jeanetta GonzalesWebsite: https://www.jeanettagonzales.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nettdesigns Free Pass Book Series: https://www.jeanettagonzales.com/freepasscoupons Jeanetta select client work: NY Times, Pantone, Target, Michaels, Edible Arrangements, and Brumate.Mentioned in this episode:Free Pass, Jeanetta’s 4-book seriesSurtex (art licensing trade show)National Stationery ShowLas Vegas Trade ShowUpper Limit Challenge (concept from The Big Leap)Connect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

May 19, 2026Episode 7157 min

What If Selling Your Art Online Was Easier Than You Think? With Liz Kohler Brown | The Typecast Episode 71

Send us Fan MailWhat does it actually look like to build a creative business that works for you, not the other way around?In this episode, we’re joined by the incredible Liz Kohler Brown, a surface designer, letterer, and mentor for creatives who want to sell their work and find their style. Liz has built a business that looks like it’s all her, but the secret is a thoughtfully built team that handles everything so she can focus on what she loves most: making art.We talk about the real strategy behind print on demand, how to hire people you actually like working with, and why front-loading the investment in training pays off in ways you can’t imagine. We also get into the AI conversation, how Liz thinks about it with a level head and why she’s not worried about it replacing her.If you ever felt like you’re doing all the things but can’t find the time to just make? This episode is for you.All that and more when you listen to this episode:Liz’s journey from ceramics to print on demand and why the iPad changed everythingWhy print on demand platforms aren’t saturated (but certain search terms are)How to use SEO to plan what art you make (before you make it)The Venn diagram method for finding your profitable nicheThe real cost of not hiring and the books that will change your mindWhy you should hire for personality first and train the skillsThe membership breakdown: trend reports, live critiques, and real-time creation sessionsLiz’s dream greenhouse studioConnect with Liz Kohler BrownLizKohlerBrown.com https://instagram.com/lizkohlerbrown Sell Your Stuff Guide: https://www.lizkohlerbrown.com/sell-your-stuff-field-guide/ Mentioned in this episode:SpoonflowerEtsyMintedBuy Back Your Time by Dan MartellWho Not How by Dan SullivanInsight Timer (free meditation app)10% HappierMeditation for Fidgety Skeptics by Dan HarrisConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

May 5, 2026Episode 7051 min

What If We Shared Every Tool We Use to Run Our Business? | The Typecast Episode 70

Send us Fan MailEver wonder what’s actually running behind the scenes of a creative business? We’re pulling back the curtain. In this episode, we’re breaking down every tool and platform we use to run Goodtype. From our website and course platform to payroll, bookkeeping, email marketing, and everything in between. We’re keeping it real: what we love, what gives us the sweats (hi, Zapier), and how we built a functional system over time without losing our minds.All that and more when you listen to this episode:Why we use Squarespace for our website How ThriveCart, Stripe, and PayPal all work together for course salesWhat we landed on to host our courses and The KernferenceHow we use Notion to manage everything, and our A/B/C priority systemOur all-day-every-day communication hubThe Adobe Acrobat Spaces features we’re genuinely nerding out overWhat we use to automate and communicate between our different appsOur banking setup Our email marketing breakdownUsing DM automations and scheduling toolsPodcast recording and hosting faves Email inbox management using ShiftOur honest (and very curious) thoughts on AI workflowsMentioned in this episode:Try Acrobat Spaces! https://goodtype.us/acrobat #adSquarespace Kate Christy at Folk FoundedNolan Pelletier ThriveCartCircleOur Notion Dashboard TemplateAdobe Creative CloudZapierNovoBenchGustoKit (formerly ConvertKit)FlodeskManyChatAdobe ExpressMetricoolRiversideBuzzsproutShift for Email ManagementConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

April 14, 2026Episode 691 hr 6 min

What If the World’s Biggest Type Company Could Predict the Next Font Trend? with Tom Foley | The Typecast Episode 69

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we sat down with Tom Foley, Executive Creative Director at Monotype–the biggest type company in the world–for a conversation that went way deeper than we planned (in the best possible way). From his family’s legacy of stonemasons and sign painters to his graduate research on Irish typography, Tom gave us an entirely new lens through which to see typography.We also dig into the big questions: what actually makes good type, how type trends work (and why they’re so hard to predict), what Monotype’s research reveals, and where variable fonts are actually landing in the world.All that and more when you listen to this episode:The fascinating origin story of what we now call Irish typeWhat makes good typeWhether design knowledge and historical context make you better or worse at type designWhat Monotype’s research reveals about purchasing habits across generationsWhether giving users more font choice in apps is actually what people want (or need)Type as a deeply human invention–linked to language, identity, and cultureConnect with Tom FoleyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/tom_foley_type/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-foley-75062158/ Mentioned in this episode:Monotype https://www.monotype.com/ Monotype’s ReVision Report 2025 https://www.monotype.com/resources/ebook/unlock-report-revision-2025 Montotype’s Report 2024 https://www.monotype.com/resources/ebook/unlock-report-type-trends-2024 What the font https://www.myfonts.com/pages/whatthefont Brethren Brothers https://www.brethrendesignco.com/ Connect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

March 24, 2026Episode 6856 min

What If Your Side Hustle Paid Your Mortgage? With Adam Vicarel | The Typecast Episode 68

Send us Fan MailWhat does it actually look like to run a thriving creative business? One with branding projects, murals, fonts, and a coffee company in the mix?! In this episode, we’re joined by the endlessly curious and wildly productive Adam Vicarel, who is proof that creative experimentation paired with smart systems can take you a long way.Whether you’re figuring out how to balance creative freedom with financial stability, trying to find the headspace for things that aren’t immediately due, or just wondering if LinkedIn is worth your time, this one’s for you.All that and more when you listen to this episode:How Adam structures his day using the Pomodoro Technique (and why creatives need structure to be creative)The “be everywhere, always” approach to marketing and why it’s really just being authentically top of mindHow to build passive income streams without overthinking them firstFont sales, SEO, and why Adam’s “little turd fonts” now pay his mortgage Why financial stability is the foundation for creative experimentationThe $100k conversation: what it actually means and why it looks different for everyoneBatching content and staying consistent on social mediaRaising rates with confidence: what it signals to clients and why it matters Project management and getting ideas out of your head so they stop taking up spaceConnect with Adam VicarelWebsite: https://www.adamvicarel.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vicarelstudios/Coffee Company: https://www.instagram.com/allclevelandcoffee/ Mentioned in this episode:Follow Your Art BookPomodoro TechniqueBrethren Design Co.AsanaConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

March 10, 2026Episode 671 hr 7 min

What If You Built a Design Studio With No Rules? with Lope Gutiérrez-Ruiz | The Typecast Episode 67

Send us Fan MailWhat happens when a journalist from Venezuela becomes a self-taught designer, typeface foundry founder, and curator of one of the most ambitious graphic design exhibitions in recent memory? You get Lope Gutiérrez-Ruiz, and our conversation with him does not disappoint. Lope is a partner and project lead at In-House International, a design studio and typeface foundry. He’s also a TED Fellow, a Knight Fellow at Stanford, and the curator behind One Hundred Points.In this episode, we dig into what it actually looks like to build a creative practice rooted in curiosity and systems–not just style. Lope shares his take on design rules (and whether you should bother learning them) and how his journalism background still shapes every creative decision he makes. We also get into the realities of working with nonprofits, font piracy, and how he pulled off a massive exhibition without taking a sabbatical. All that and more when you listen to this episode: How Lope went from journalist to publisher to self-taught designer and typeface founderWhy being self-taught may actually be a creative advantage His philosophy on design rules, systems, and building a practice around curiosity The studio structure at In-House International The truth about font piracy and typeface licensingHow One Hundred Points came to be and why he thinks every designer should participate in an exhibitionTips for funding a creative exhibition through sponsorshipsThe “Alphabet of Tomorrow” talk at South by Southwest Connect with LopeIn-House International: weareinhouse.com Instagram: weareinhouseOne Hundred Points Exhibition: onehundredpoints.org Mentioned in this episode:Run Studio Run https://nopicnicpress.com/shop/run-studio-run South by Southwest, “Alphabet of Tomorrow” talk, March 18, 2026 https://schedule.sxsw.com/events/PP1150035 Follow Your Art by Katie Johnson & Ilana Griffo (book releasing March 17th!) https://goodtype.us/follow-your-art-book Book Launch Event @ Roommate Collective at Springdale General, Austin: March 18th, 5-8pmTactical Guide to Sponsorship PDFConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

February 24, 2026Episode 6657 min

What If You Niched Out Instead of Down? | The Typecast Episode 66

Send us Fan Mail“Finding your style” is the number one question we get asked, and the one we’ve asked ourselves for years. In this episode, we’re diving into the real question behind it: what if it’s not about finding a single aesthetic… but about uncovering your creative identity? We’re celebrating the announcement of our new book, Follow Your Art, and sharing why we wrote it, what you’ll find inside, and how the entire process changed the way we think about style, niching, and creative confidence. We talk about why committing to one aesthetic can feel like a cage, why effortless ideas are often your most authentic ones, and how your “secret sauce” is built from everything. We also unpack our take on “niching out, not down,” how to write an artist statement that actually feels like you, and how to market your work without feeling gross.All that and more when you listen to this episode:Why “How do I find my style?” might be the wrong questionThe difference between style and creative identity Why committing to one aesthetic feels terrifying (and limiting) The ice cream shop metaphor that reframes everythingHow to identify your creative “secret sauce” Why what feels effortless might actually be your magicThe role of childhood memories, relationships, and non-art influences in shaping your workWhat “niching out, not down” really meansWhat it was like to co-write a book over several yearsWhy creative work doesn’t have to feel hard to be valuableAnd so much more! Mentioned in this episode:Follow Your Art (our new book!) https://goodtype.us/follow-your-art-book Free audiobook with pre-order https://goodtype.us/follow-your-art-book Goodreads https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/239923273-follow-your-art Connect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

February 10, 2026Episode 6550 min

What If Personal Projects Were the Reason You Got Paid Work? With Lisa McCormick | The Typecast Episode 65

Send us Fan MailPre-order our book, Follow Your Art! https://goodtype.us/follow-your-art-bookIn this episode, we’re joined by illustrator, designer, and letterer, Lisa McCormick who is celebrating 10 years of full-time freelancing and doing it her way! Lisa shares how she’s built a career working with major brands without being loud online or glued to every social media platform. We talk about why personal projects are often the reason dream clients come knocking, how curiosity and experimentation have shaped her signature style, and why being “quiet” online doesn’t mean being invisible. We also get real about freelancing and burnout and what it looks like to intentionally design a workday (and life) that actually feels good. From color obsession phases and travel-inspired projects to co-working for mental health, this episode is packed with honest insights for creatives navigating long-term careers.If you’ve ever felt pressure to show up louder, work longer, or sacrifice yourself to success, this conversation is a reminder that there are many ways to build a fulfilling creative life.All that and more when you listen to this episode:What 10 years of freelancing has taught LisaWhy personal projects are her biggest source of paid client workHow curiosity and experimentation lead to unexpected opportunitiesBooking major clients without constantly posting or self-promotingThe difference between growing a following and growing a careerFinding and developing a signature illustration styleThe realities of art theft, Pinterest virality, and protecting your workWhy bigger clients often allow more creative freedomBuilding healthier workdays and boundaries, breaks, and balanceConnect with Lisa McCormickInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/madebylisamarie/ Website: https://madebylisamarie.com/ Behance: https://www.behance.net/LisaMcCormickMentioned in this episode:Chicago BearsMarine LayerPBSDribbbleAdobe MAXConnect with Katie & Ilana from GoodtypeGoodtype WebsiteGoodtype on InstagramGoodtype on YoutubeWe wrote a book! Grab a copy and sign up to access the audiobook when we release it!Love The Typecast and free stuff? Leave a review, and send a screenshot of it to us on Slack. Each month we pick a random reviewer to win a Goodtype Goodie! Goodies include merch, courses and Kernference tickets!Leave us a review on Apple PodcastsSubscribe to the showTag us on Instagram @GoodtypeFollow us on Tiktok @lovegoodtypeLearn from Katie and IlanaGrab your tea, coffee, or drink of choice, kick back, and let's get down to business!

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The Typecast: Grow Your Art Business

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Listen to episodes

What If You Quit Your Job for a One-Month Freelance Gig with Christina Kwiek | The Typecast Episode 74

What If Your Subtitles Could Express Emotion? With Frederik Merkel | The Typecast Episode 73

What If Your Whole Career Was Just Practice for the Work You Were Meant to Do? with Jeanetta Gonzales | The Typecast Episode 72

What If Selling Your Art Online Was Easier Than You Think? With Liz Kohler Brown | The Typecast Episode 71

What If We Shared Every Tool We Use to Run Our Business? | The Typecast Episode 70

What If the World’s Biggest Type Company Could Predict the Next Font Trend? with Tom Foley | The Typecast Episode 69

What If Your Side Hustle Paid Your Mortgage? With Adam Vicarel | The Typecast Episode 68

What If You Built a Design Studio With No Rules? with Lope Gutiérrez-Ruiz | The Typecast Episode 67

What If You Niched Out Instead of Down? | The Typecast Episode 66

What If Personal Projects Were the Reason You Got Paid Work? With Lisa McCormick | The Typecast Episode 65

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