Working in Yoga

Someone once told me that hanging around with yoga people was like having all of those late-night “what is the meaning of life?” conversations with full adults.Enter Mandi King to the chat. She and I recreate hanging out at the coffee shop ‘til 3 a.m. drinking black coffee, listening to Radiohead, and talking about deep conversations—this time about yoga philosophy and AI. All key takeaways listed on the podcast are the answer ChatGPT gave me on thoughts of samskaras, moksha, and karma. Take a listen.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMandi’s Website Mandi’s NewsletterAI & Tech Series Discussion GuideHey Hun Yoga Book Club

What is the impact AI and tech have had, and are going to have on teaching yoga?J Brown and I have thoughts.KEY TAKEAWAYS:*I do think we need to pay homage to some of the old ways, even as we adapt to new tech.  When yoga, as an industry, sort of came of age in the 90s, we were using old shoe boxes, tissue boxes, or cigar boxes to store our money.  And there is something to that model, even if some of that “something” was a bunch of yoga studios evading taxes.  We certainly were running businesses that were using a significantly smaller amount of tech.  I also feel a bit of nostalgia for those days.  I remember walking up 48 stairs in a 200-year-old building to get to a class where we wrote our names on a sign-in sheet that also served as a waiver.  Which is to say, we’ve come a long way, baby.   * Interactive engagement with other humans matters. It also improves our yoga teaching skills and teaches us how to navigate all kinds of humans skillfully. However, since the majority of us are one human show as far as our business is concerned, tech can help us lead capture and navigate competition against major corporations who run chain studios like Yoga6 and CorePower.*One of the best points here is that if you use tech or not, there needs to be boundaries around it.  Are you using it to help fundraise, like I did?  Are you using it to replace the discomfort of not being proficient at a thing?  What your intentions are for use is a great, deeper inquiry here.*The struggle matters for the professional experience!!  OMGI could not agree with this thought J has more.  Some initial struggle is SO useful for developing proficiency as a teacher.  You will hear an interview in this series with Justin DeAngleo, who talks a lot about how he uses tech as a springboard for ideas.  Like a conversation starter, so to speak.  But it is up to us to interpret the ideas a develop them as human beings.  And in this process…sometimes a little bit of discomfort is necessary.*Turning off all the spigots is such good business advice. Stop all the flow and then turn each stream on one by one until you figure out what makes an actual difference and do a whole lot more of that.  *What a great question here–is there a point of diminishing return?  At what point is the tech that once helped us hindering us?  This is a great add-on question to our AI and Tech series discussion guide that you can find in our show notes. *Do you believe that the inevitable progression of AI and tech is that we will need to opt in to more tracking?  The tracking conversation is always an interesting one, as it seems like we are already tracked via our cell phones for most things.  Is that okay with you?  It is in antithesis to the liberation practice of yoga?And finally, two other industry points of inquiry for you to end this conversation.What are your thoughts on online training vs. in-person training?  At least one org has decided that an all-online asynchronous training has the same weight as an all in-person training.  Do you agree with this?  Is there nuance here?Which also begs the follow up question, should our orgs have industry standards and guidelines for how we use AI and tech in our industry–or is this something we all need to figure out for ourselves?RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterJ’s WebsiteRebecca’s Interview on JBrown Yoga TalksAI & Tech Series Discussion GuideHey Hun Yoga Book Club

Buckle up, friends.We are about to get into how artificial intelligence and tech can impact our futures near and far. It isn’t all bad news, but we do need to be prepared.Also, download our discussion guide for this series!Working In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterDiscussion Guide

<episode starts with a late-night breakup voice note to yoga orgs>It’s always about money and power, isn’t it?RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMarc Maron Clip.

This is the final interview in our series about yoga organizations, how they operate, and our futures. And it is a good one. Jivana Heyman is nothing if not an expert in the operations of organizations, with such an amazing understanding of how they work and what they should be doing for us. KEY TAKEAWAYS*The point of an organization, any organization, is to speak for those who have less power.  Jivana put that beautifully.  If you are a non-profit organization that takes membership dues, even if your status doesn’t explicitly state that you are for the members, what is the point of you if you don’t speak up for those with less power?  *PLEASE watch for orgs consolidating power.  When fewer and fewer people have more and more of the say, that is a KEY sign that things are not functioning properly in the organization.*Accessible Yoga did best practices for online teaching.  I just need to repeat that as something that it is INSANE to me that the yoga alliance OR IAYT has not set forth.  This is going to be critical to us in the future as we look at a lot more of our work going online in the next 5-10 years.  Have YOU been thinking about online, AI and tech?  I have.  *There IS something not working in the yoga space, and I agree with Jivana, I cannot quite figure it out either.  A lack of generosity, so much gatekeeping, resource hoarding, what else?  *I will say this now until I die.  The Yoga Alliance and the IAYT have scope of practice issues.  What is best for yoga practitioners and yoga schools is not always the same.  What is best for yoga therapists in practice and best for yoga therapy schools are definitely not the same.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sort your scope of practice issues out!!*Jivana pointed out some operational things about the Yoga Alliance that I find SO STAGGERINGLY awful.  The Yoga Alliance is allegedly taking the money they make from dues, funneling it into another organization that has tax-free status (c-6 trade orgs are not tax-free), and each org has the SAME board and CEO.  Talk about conflict of interest.  Whatcha need that money for Yoga Alliance?  Tell us what’s going on, boo.*Let’s figure out how to support each other in the next four years if you are in the US.  By all accounts things are looking dicey for us as an industry that exists in the “extra” bucket of most people’s budgets.  When people have less extra money to spend, we tend to see our numbers dip.  So how are we going to support each other and get through what will likely be a difficult period for our businesses?*Finally, I want to share a few of Jivana's ideas about what an organization could offer its members. Free training, continuing education, legal support, liability insurance, waivers, contracts, more information and data about our industry, marketing, and the role of supporting unions are just some of the things they could be doing. And if any organization was doing this, they would for sure have my money.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterJivana’s Website1

We should all be watching and listing to Davy Jones. Davy came into this conversation with more nuggets about organizing, connecting, and taking a stand against organizations than almost any other guest I have had on this podcast.I can’t wait for you to listen.KEY TAKEAWAYS *First, I would just really love to mention that the UK has a labor union for yoga pros.  This is a thing that happens around the world, and I am excited to explore this conversation more in the coming months.*In spite of many objections by SO many (really SO SO many) people I have talked to in the yoga space, a union actually could help yoga professionals in North America.  The union could do for us what it does for UK workers–provide advocacy, health insurance, support, and accountability for the profession of yoga.  Collectively, we are better together.  Unions can be part of our solution.*Ever since I started getting involved with advocacy work in regards to the IAYT (International Association of Yoga Therapists) people keep asking me some variation of the same question.  “Are YOU starting an organization?”  But this begs the question I asked Davy about the British Wheel of Yoga.  What is the point of an organization?  We have a lot of orgs that claim to be doing good work in the field, but very few can come to the table with receipts.  The British Wheel of Yoga is just one of many in this regard.*Building community and service into our business models is SO crucial for aligning our businesses with yogic principles.  It is inevitable that we will need to price our services in such a way that we make enough money to keep our doors open, but unpacking the question of how we give back is key to going forward in our industry with integrity and respect for the tradition and practice of yoga.*UK Community Outreach Network is the coolest idea I have heard in such a long time.  Honestly, can I interview everyone who is involved in this so we can tell the world how it works?  Please?  Also, does anyone in the States want to work on this with me?*Let’s chat about an organization that keeps our students safe.  What does this look like?  How can we support this sort of organization? *I don’t know how many times I have referenced BREWED, a program I do at my studio for studentship, but please go ahead and steal my idea.  Studentship courses can offer people a deeper understanding of yoga and yogic principles without actually needing to train people to be yoga teachers. *What do you feel about regulation in our industry?  I do truly believe that we are doing good enough work to stand up overall regulation as an industry.  Does that mean licensing?  I don’t know if that is the answer but we certainly can stand up to general oversight as an industry.*We ARE part of the solution of the crisis of public health.  Davy could not have said that better.  When you are feeling down, please remember that. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterDavy’s Website Brighton Yoga Foundation

Welcome to the first of many conversations on how we keep the Yoga in our yoga businesses. This is a topic that keeps coming up for me as I chat with people and I think Lisa Pearson is the perfect person for this topic.Lisa and I get into our personal practice, running our businesses, and how caring for ourselves and filling our own cups is critical to our work.Take a listen to find out more.KEY TAKEAWAYS*How do we partner the business with the practice of yoga?  This is something that I think a lot of us struggle with.  But our sadhana, or personal practice, is really important.  The reason for this, I believe, is because it reminds us to center ourselves in the yoga first.  We have a lot of folks who sort of pull the strings in our industry who are not practitioners first, but we all are.  Let’s all decide to lean into our practices, utilize the full scope (especially the philosophy), and care for ourselves first so we can care for others.  Doing this allows us to model this behavior for our students too.*How do we keep the yoga in our business?  Make the yoga part of your business plans.  Put yourself in your schedule, and take time for yourself.  This IS the yoga.  Do what my friend Amy Wheeler has done, and make standards for yourself that guide your principles for teaching, practicing, and being in business.  *We want yoga to be a Disney movie.  But it isn’t.  This is so incredibly true, and I am surprised this is probably the first time this has really come up on the podcast.  We have this idea that yoga should always feel good, right, aligned, and wholesome.  But the truth is yoga, as a practice is hard.  And yoga as a business is hard too.  These things are not at odds with each other.  Sometimes sticking with your yoga practice is difficult.  It requires you to unlearn your previous patterns in order to evolve into the fullest version of yourself.  That isn’t all doe eyes and white knights.  It is hard work.  (as an unrelated but related note, I do believe we want our organizations to be that white knight in our story.  They won’t be babes.  We didn’t design them that way.  Love you)*Defining success for yourself is really important.  And make sure that you deep dive into whether you are deciding to just be satisfied with whatever you have, vs. deciding what would make you feel successful, cared for, and supported as a yoga professional.  And honestly, do this yearly.  *Find where you want to serve and get really good at it.  Get so good your work is undeniable.  RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterLisa’s Website 

This is our 100th episode of Working In Yoga! Find out a little bit about Rebecca’s life since starting the podcast, and what is coming next for Working In Yoga in 2025. RESOURCES Working In Yoga Website Working In Yoga Newsletter

We have some such innovative and intelligent humans in the yoga industry space, and Michele Lawrence is one of them.Michele is one of the original people to advocate for the pause in the 300-hour LHCP, Q-designation, from the International Association of Yoga Therapists. And she and I get into it about what we thought the IAYT was, what we hoped to see from them in the future, and where we hoped to go as a profession. I love that we get the opportunity to talk to people who run schools for yoga therapists, so we can see what they are projecting about our industry in the future.KEY TAKEAWAYS:*It is true, most yoga therapists are not looking at hospital settings first and foremost.  Especially in the beginning, when your skillset is building the hospital doesn’t often seem like a likely place for us to land.  So why is there this focus on getting us into healthcare settings?*Look, it is also undeniable that we seek some legitimacy within our profession.  I believe this is because in our cores we know the benefit of our work.  And it is normal and human for us to want to be taken seriously for that work.  But also…I do think that with that legitimacy leads to us making a living, if not thriving wage.  I have said this before–don’t conflate those two things.  Folks sell foot pics online for a lot of money, but it does not mean that “foot pic salesperson” is a respected profession.  Those two things are not necessarily connected.*Portfolio careers are coming up again.  The reality of the industry as it stands right now is that you are either privileged to have another non-yoga income (a second job or a spouse, say) or you have to maintain a portfolio career.  Yoga therapists, even with our high level of training and experience, are required to do a lot of things.  A lot of us still teach yoga classes–I do, as much to test my material as anything, and we also see private clients, write, speak, train, travel, and run other businesses.  In order to make a living, many of us have to wear a lot of hats and do a lot of different kinds of work.*OMG someone said it!!  There. Is. Enough. Work. For. Us. All.  We need to go fight for our work and spread the work amongst us.*The IAYT has a responsibility to the professionals that it allegedly represents.  Sort of. Legally speaking, they actually have no responsibility to us, in spite of the fact they collect “membership dues” and have a “membership portal” on their website.  While they are walking like a membership organization duck, they are not legally defined that way.  Weird, huh?  *What does member input in a yoga organization look like to you?  Other than the requisite “we are listening” posts and emails–how does an organization *Actually* listen?  What are some of your ideas?*If the Q model goes forward, no matter what they call it, we need to call for a different model and organizational leadership to take charge of our industry.  Or, maybe we need to call for a real talk about the actual relevance of organizations in our industry.  *Testimonials and the progress of your clients makes a difference.  Collect those if you can, because the best proof of being good at your job in this industry is when other people love your work well enough to say so, publicly. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMichele’s Website 

Are there lessons we can take from other professions?What is the IAYT doing well? What can they improve upon?When will I get a vacation?These are all questions we cover in our chat with Dr. Steffany Moonaz.KEY TAKEAWAYS*This point cannot be stressed enough when talking about license within the yoga therapy space.  Just because you have a license **Does not** mean you can necessarily bill insurance.  Let’s uncouple those thoughts, please.  Thanks.*We can learn a lot from the journey of other professions.  We deep dove into acupuncture with Dr. Moonaz and it is fascinating to hear the stories of professions where there are restrictions about who they can treat, how they can treat, and who supervises the practitioners.  What are your thoughts here?*Where the IAYT seems to missed the mark is in understanding how people in yoga therapy find their clients through the referral process.  I have said this before, but the amount of LHCPs (licensed health care providers) who have said “I will just get a 200 hour teacher training cert and do what you do, is staggering.  Now I still get referrals from those folks because eventually they realize that isn’t the case–but the fact that I have to explain this to an organization in our industry is wild to me.  That just isn’t how it works for any of us on the ground, taking clients as yoga therapists. *Gravitas and money.  Those are the things we want.  *Steffany said something I really want to emphasize.  We can, as a profession, take the steps needed to become a licensed profession–and then decide not to do it.  But in my opinion, it is WELL WORTH taking the steps to professionalize as a whole.  It benefits us as an industry in the long run.*We need to give the IAYT credit where credit is due.  The steps taken thus far in the area of self-regulation are significant.  The accreditation process, the credentialing process, continuing education requirements, core competencies, these are all important in the development of yoga therapy as a profession.  No doubt about it.*How do we distinguish the difference in all of the different services in the yoga marketplace?  This is a huge question, especially in the context of yoga therapy.  What ideas do YOU have?  Email me, rebecca@workinginyoga.com and let me know.*This is the time where I remind you that the International Association of Yoga Therapists has no legal requirement to advocate for us as professionals.  Their designation is a 501c3, which is a public serving organization.  Just as  a note.*Just to update you, We still have no official stance from the IAYT as to weather or not the Q designation is stopped completely, now a month later after we recorded.  Just in case you need to know.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterSteffany’s Website