The Tao of Chao Podcast

Hosted by Philip Chao

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Latest episode

May 2026

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EN-US

About the show

The Tao of Chao Podcast focuses on contemporary issues, regulations and class action cases impacting pension and defined contribution retirement plan fiduciaries. Philip Chao and his guests will discuss relevant issues that a plan fiduciary should pay attention to and how such challenges are relevant in operating their retirement plans while serving in the sole interest of participants and beneficiaries.

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42 recent

May 12, 2026Episode 3952 min

Getting Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable with Julia Landauer

How much of our potential do we leave behind simply because something feels uncomfortable? In Episode 39 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao speaks with NASCAR driver and keynote speaker Julia Landauer about how discomfort, risk, and resilience influence long-term success. Julia reflects on her experience in racing, where failure is frequent and recovery is essential, and how that mindset translates into career decisions, personal growth, and navigating uncertainty. Key insights include:• Why discomfort is not a valid reason to avoid action • How repetition builds confidence over time• The importance of setting a clear long-term direction• Why embracing failure improves resilience• How to evaluate risk with both preparation and perspective This episode explores how growth often begins in the moments we instinctively want to avoid.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

April 15, 2026Episode 3856 min

From Save to Safe – A Conversation on Rethinking Risk

What if the biggest risk in retirement planning isn’t market volatility—but believing you’re prepared when you’re not? In Episode 38 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Renee Scherzer interviews Philip Chao on the core philosophy behind his book From Save to Safe. Drawing on decades of fiduciary experience, Philip challenges the traditional “401(k) mindset” and outlines a path to reach sustainable retirement income. While modern systems have made it easier than ever to save, Philip argues they have most still under save and the system has not solved for what actually matters: opportunities and distribution methodologies in generating sustainable income in retirement. Using the Save to Safe framework, this conversation explores how “mindless participation” under the current employer sponsor defined contribution set up —combined with system design—can create a false sense of security and leave participants underprepared. Key insights include:• Why saving is only the first phase—not the outcome• How the current system can create the illusion of readiness• The hidden risks behind mindless participation• Why fiduciary responsibility must extend beyond plan design• How behavior and system structure together shape outcomes 📘 Get the book From Save to Safe: https://www.amazon.com/Save-Safe-Personalized-Fragility-Resilience-ebook/dp/B0FWXCMGQD Listen to the full episode to understand why retirement planning doesn’t end with saving—and what it really takes to move from Save to Safe.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

March 26, 2026Episode 371 hr 0 min

Comfort Is the Real Risk with Vittayarukskul

Is the comfortable path actually the riskiest choice we can make? In Episode 37 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao welcomes entrepreneur Lily Vittayarukskul for a conversation about risk, resilience, and the courage to step outside expected paths. Lily’s journey began unusually early — starting college at 14 and interning at NASA as a teenager. After a family health crisis reshaped her perspective, she redirected her ambitions toward building technology solutions that address systemic challenges in healthcare. Key insights include:• Why comfort can disguise long-term risk• How unconventional paths create unexpected opportunities• The role of personal experiences in shaping entrepreneurial missions• Why founders must embrace uncertainty rather than avoid it• How individuals can rethink risk in careers and life This episode explores how purpose, risk, and growth often emerge when we move beyond what feels comfortable.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

February 5, 2026Episode 3650 min

Understanding Inflation, Debt, and the Real Economy with Paula Campbell Roberts

In Episode 36 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao sits down with Paula Campbell Roberts of KKR to unpack the economic realities shaping American households. With a data-driven and human-centered perspective, the conversation dives into:• The uneven impact of inflation and why asset holders fared differently• What rising credit card and auto delinquencies signal about consumer stress• How wage growth, labor participation, and job switching have evolved• Shifts in household savings post-COVID• Why behavioral insights matter as much as economic indicators Tune in for a grounded look at how consumers are navigating today’s economy—and what the data is really telling us.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

January 5, 2026Episode 3555 min

Power, AI, and Morality with Brian Wong

What does power look like in an age defined by artificial intelligence, geopolitical rivalry, and rapid technological acceleration?In Episode 35 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao welcomes Brian Wong for a compelling discussion on how AI is reshaping global order, the responsibilities of those who wield influence, and the moral frameworks needed to make sound decisions in complex systems.Key insights include: • How AI alters power structures between nations, institutions, and individuals • Why moral clarity matters more than ever in high-stakes environments • The benefits and risks of adopting AI at scale • How leaders can balance innovation with responsibility and restraint • Why humility, reflection, and well-defined frameworks improve decision-making • Where geopolitical competition is headed — and what it means for marketsThis episode offers a grounded, human-centered exploration of the forces shaping our future and the ethical considerations that must guide our path forward.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

December 2, 2025Episode 3453 min

Longevity, Literacy, and the Future of Aging with Surya Kolluri

What does it really mean to live longer — and how do we prepare for a future defined by extended lifespans?In this episode of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao welcomes Surya Kolluri, Head of the TIAA Institute, for an in-depth discussion on longevity, retirement planning, cognitive health, and the evolving realities of aging societies. Key insights include:• The rise of longevity literacy and why so few people understand their true lifespan• How to build longevity fitness across financial, physical, cognitive, and social dimensions• The deep connection between health and wealth — and why disparities are widening• Why planning should focus on income stability, not just accumulated savings• The growing threat of elder fraud and cognitive decline• How social connection dramatically reduces mortality risk• The emergence of age-friendly cities, intergenerational learning, and the longevity economy Tune in for a grounded, human-centered conversation on how longer lives will reshape families, institutions, and society — and how each of us can prepare with clarity and intention.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

October 27, 2025Episode 331 hr 0 min

Retirement Preparedness for Four Generations with Catherine Collinson

What does it take to retire well in a world where people are living longer, working differently, and facing new financial realities? In Episode 33 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao welcomes Catherine Collinson, CEO and President of the Nonprofit Transamerica Institute and Transamerica Center for Retirement Studies, to explore how individuals, employers, and policymakers can collaborate to improve retirement readiness and financial wellness. Key insights include:How longevity is transforming retirement expectationsWhy financial wellness is more than savings — it’s confidence and controlThe evolving role of employers in helping workers plan for the futureGenerational perspectives on saving, investing, and agingWhat we can all do to create a more secure and purposeful retirement Tune in for data-driven insights and practical wisdom from one of the nation’s leading voices on the future of retirement.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

October 9, 2025Episode 3258 min

Fiduciary Leadership and Behavioral Governance with Don Trone

What does it take to lead responsibly in today’s complex world? In Episode 32 of the Tao of Chao Podcast, Philip Chao sits down with Don Trone, founder of the Behavioral Governance Institute, to discuss the principles of fiduciary leadership and the importance of behavioral governance.Key insights include:Why fiduciary duty is best understood as a standard of character, not just complianceHow behavioral governance helps leaders align decisions with valuesThe importance of ethics, accountability, and trust in financial servicesLessons from Don’s career advancing fiduciary responsibility and governance frameworksWhy stewardship and leadership are inseparable in finance, business, and beyondThis wide-ranging conversation is essential listening for investors, advisors, and anyone who wants to understand the deeper meaning of responsible leadership.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

September 8, 2025Episode 3156 min

Tariffs, Immigration & AI Adoption w/ Dr. Onsel Gulbiten | Tao of Chao 31

Are tariffs, immigration shifts, and AI adoption quietly reshaping the U.S. economy?In this episode of the Tao of Chao podcast, Philip Chao welcomes Dr. Onsel Gulbiten, global macro strategist, for a deep discussion on the forces driving growth and inflation.They explore:How tariffs and immigration policies are reshaping U.S. growth potentialWhy the economy may be settling into a new stasis of slower expansionThe accelerating role of AI in productivity and labor substitutionThe Federal Reserve’s evolving framework Whether we are headed toward stagflation, or something close to itTune in for an expert perspective on the “new normal” of slower growth, higher costs, and shifting global dynamics.👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.

June 5, 2025Episode 3049 min

Fiduciary Duty, Participant Engagement & Personalization w/ Katrina Berishaj | Tao of Chao 30

How well do employers really know their plan participants — and are they using that data in participants' best interests?In this episode of the Tao of Chao podcast, Philip Chao welcomes Katrina Berishaj, Chair of ERISA and Employee Benefits at Stradley Ronon, for a deep discussion on the evolving responsibilities of fiduciaries, especially in the defined contribution plan space.They explore how employers and advisors can meet their fiduciary obligations more effectively — not just by offering plans, but by understanding their participants' needs, behaviors, and goals.Katrina shares actionable insights into:- Why participant engagement remains a persistent barrier to retirement readiness- The increasing value of employer-held data — and the ethical obligation to use it- How managed accounts and personalized investment solutions are evolving- The risks of failing to adapt: from liability to participant detriment- Where financial institutions are making strides (and where they’re still falling short)This thought-provoking episode is a must-listen for plan sponsors, advisors, and anyone navigating the future of retirement plans.🔗 Listen now for a grounded, expert take on fiduciary strategy and the human side of retirement planning.👓 Learn more about our GUEST Katrina BerishajChair of ERISA & Employee BenefitsStradley Ronon👓 Learn more about our HOSTPhilip ChaoWebsite: https://philipchao.usFollow Philip on LinkedInDISCLOSURE: Views expressed in the Tao of Chao podcasts are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each guest or the firm with which each guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as investment advice or recommendations. Please consult your personal financial advisor, investment expert, or investment fiduciary before taking any actions about your plan and investments.