The REFINE Network

Hosted by Evan Silver & Christopher Hartl

Business Arts

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110

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Oct 2026

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About the show

Welcome to The Refine Network with Evan Silver, your go-to podcast for all things salon industry-related. Join us as we dive deep into topics ranging from leadership development, cultivating a positive salon culture, maximizing profitability, effective marketing strategies, and mastering financial intelligence.Hosted by Evan Silver & Christopher Hartl, each episode is packed with actionable insights, practical tips, and inspiring stories from leaders in the salon industry. Whether you're a salon

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October 5, 202618 min

Is Your Level System Holding Your Stylists Back?

Your salon has a level system, but some of your strongest stylists are stuck. Is the problem their performance, or are the requirements no longer realistic? In this episode, Evan and Christopher look at what happens when a level system doesn’t keep up with changes in services, pricing, and the way stylists build their careers. They discuss why a high-performing artist might struggle to meet a retail target even while delivering strong service and retaining clients, and how holding that artist at the same level can limit both their earning potential and the salon’s growth. They also explore client-count goals that don’t match the time today’s services require, how to start a conversation with your team about metrics that aren’t working, and why small, flat price increases can mean less of a promotion for your most experienced artists. If your level system isn’t helping your stylists and your salon move forward, this conversation will help you see where to take another look. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 Concert tips and protecting your hearing 03:32 Why stylists get stuck in level systems 05:47 Is it the stylist or the metric? 07:07 Rethinking retail goals as stylists advance 08:20 How to talk with your team about changing expectations 11:42 When client count no longer matches the services 13:17 Building a career path that supports retention 14:18 Why salons need a level system 16:16 When it’s time to reevaluate yours 17:02 The problem with a $5 increase at every level 18:12 How Refine can help

September 21, 202623 min

Why You Keep Hiring the Same People and Getting the Same Results

If you keep hiring the same type of person and getting the same disappointing result, it may be time to take a closer look at your process. In this episode, we’re breaking down how your mindset, interview questions, onboarding, and decision-makers all influence who joins your team. We also explore why seeing potential in someone isn’t always the same as identifying the right fit. You’ll learn how to hire around your core values, recognize qualities like humility, drive, kindness, and coachability, and protect your culture when someone isn’t the right fit. The wrong hire can cost you financially, emotionally, and culturally. Sometimes, it really is better to have no one than the wrong one. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 What Pet Would You Choose? 02:11 Why You Keep Getting the Same Hiring Results 02:34 Changing Your Hiring Mindset 04:20 Is Your Hiring Process the Problem? 05:22 Who Should Make the Hiring Decision? 06:25 Seeing Potential vs. Seeing the Right Fit 07:09 Protecting Your Salon Culture 07:32 Interview Questions That Reveal Character 08:56 What Are Your Five-Year Goals? 10:42 Hiring Around Your Vision and Core Values 12:04 Your Team Reflects Your Leadership 14:20 Knowing When Someone Isn’t the Right Fit 15:20 Five Qualities to Look for in a New Hire 19:11 How to Tell if Someone Is Coachable 20:34 If It’s Not a Hell Yes, It’s a Hell No 21:26 Reverse the Interview Question 22:39 Take Your Leadership Further

September 7, 20268 min

The Hidden Cost of Your Color Bar

Your color bar could be costing your salon more than you think. In this episode, we sit down with leaders from L’ANZA and Vish to break down what’s really happening behind the color bar—from product waste and excess inventory to services that are performed but never actually charged for. We talk about how understanding your true cost per application can uncover hidden profit, why more inventory doesn’t necessarily mean better results, and how better systems create accountability without putting the burden on your team or your guests. You’ll also hear how technology can improve communication between stylists and the front desk, help salons charge consistently for the work they’re already doing, and turn money that was once being lost into opportunities for education, improvements, and growth. If you’ve never taken a close look at what your color bar is actually costing you, this conversation might change the way you think about it. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 Welcome to Talks with the Refine Network 00:07 Meet L’ANZA’s Global Artistic Director 00:30 The Story Behind Vish 01:12 What Your Color Services Are Actually Costing You 01:33 How Much Product Is Going to Waste? 02:13 Turning Color Inventory Into Profit 02:33 The Problem With Dead Stock 03:16 Setting Better Color Benchmarks 04:29 Creating Accountability at the Color Bar 05:28 Better Communication = Fewer Missed Charges 06:14 20% of Salon Services Aren’t Being Paid For 06:38 Why L’ANZA’s Model Works 07:23 The Profitability Problem in the Salon Industry 07:47 Why Technology Belongs at the Color Bar 08:26 Closing Thoughts

August 17, 202620 min

The Power of Salon Apprenticeship

What happens when you intentionally invest in developing talent from the very beginning? In this episode, you’ll hear from Chantal and Lily of ECLIPS Salon about the power of salon apprenticeship from both sides of the experience. Chantal shares what they’ve learned from 15 years of developing apprentices, while Lily gives you a look at what it’s like to learn, grow, and build confidence within the program today. They dive into how apprenticeship can shape technical skills, salon culture, client relationships, and the confidence someone carries into their career. You’ll also hear why ECLIPS starts with the skills that allow apprentices to contribute to the team right away, how clients become part of their growth, and what it takes to stay patient when you’re still finding your footing. Whether you have an apprenticeship program or hire through a more traditional path, this conversation is a reminder that developing great people takes intention. Give them the tools, education, confidence, and support to grow, and you’re not just preparing them to work behind the chair — you’re helping them build a career that lasts. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork CHAPTERS: 00:00 – Beauty Secrets & Hair Hacks 01:41 – The Power of Salon Apprenticeship 04:37 – Choosing Apprenticeship as a Career Path 07:17 – How Apprenticeship Supports Salon Culture & Clients 09:40 – Learning the Skills Behind the Chair 12:15 – Building an Apprenticeship Curriculum That Works 14:45 – Setting Future Stylists Up for Success 16:43 – Confidence, Patience & Building a Lasting Career 18:37 – Investing in the Next Generation

August 3, 202618 min

Why Great Leaders Don't Want "Yes People"

If everyone on your team agrees with you, it might be time to ask a different question. The best leaders aren't surrounded by "yes people." They're surrounded by people who care enough to challenge ideas, ask hard questions, and protect the vision—even when it's uncomfortable. In this episode, we talk about why healthy disagreement is one of the greatest assets your business can have, how to create a culture where your team feels safe speaking up, and why inviting feedback makes you a stronger leader. You'll learn: Why "yes people" can quietly hurt your business How to encourage honest feedback from your team The difference between being supportive and simply agreeable Why healthy conflict leads to better decisions How to build trust that allows people to challenge ideas If you're building a team and want better conversations—not just more agreement—this episode is for you. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 If Your Personality Was a Condiment... 02:13 Why Great Leaders Don't Want "Yes People" 03:16 The Equity You Lose by Overpromising 04:27 Why Your Team Shouldn't Agree With Everything 06:19 The Ego Trap Every Leader Faces 08:00 How Great Teams Challenge Their Leaders 09:13 Coaching Someone Who Always Says Yes 10:30 How to Ask for Feedback (and Actually Hear It) 12:27 Trust Before Tough Conversations 13:38 Don't Mistake Silence for Buy-In 15:35 Creating a Culture of Honest Feedback 17:16 Pressure-Test Big Decisions Before They Go Live

July 20, 202633 min

The Pricing Mistake Even Successful Salon Owners Make

Building a successful salon doesn't always mean you're charging the right prices. In this episode, Christopher sits down with Michelle Rouser of 40 Volume Salon to unpack what happened after taking her team through REFINE's SCALE program. Together, they discuss the importance of understanding your numbers, creating pricing strategies backed by data instead of assumptions, and involving your leadership team in major business decisions. They also explore how transparency builds trust, why team buy-in matters, and how strong systems help salons grow with confidence instead of guesswork. Whether you're questioning your pricing, leading a growing team, or simply trying to make smarter business decisions, this conversation offers practical insights into building a healthier, more sustainable salon. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 Intro & Icebreaker 03:00 How 40 Volume Got Its Name 05:00 Why Great Leaders Don't Make Big Decisions Alone 08:15 When to Listen... and When to Lead 12:00 The Moment the Numbers Changed Everything 15:40 The Hidden Cost of Guessing Your Prices 19:30 Pricing With Confidence Instead of Fear 21:20 How to Get Your Team Bought In 24:50 The Leadership Skills That Matter Most 29:25 Is SCALE Worth It? 31:30 Final Thoughts

July 6, 202620 min

Should You Let An Employee Stay After Giving Notice?

One of the hardest leadership moments you'll face as a salon owner is when an employee gives notice and asks to stay for a few more weeks. Do you let them finish out their schedule? Do you ask them to leave immediately? How do you protect your team, your culture, and your business while still treating people with respect? In this episode, Christopher and Evan discuss the factors every leader should consider before making that decision. They cover employee posture, relational equity, setting clear boundaries, protecting the team that's staying, and why reacting emotionally can lead to poor leadership decisions. Every situation is different, but having a framework for navigating these conversations can help you lead with confidence instead of emotion. Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, salon culture, business growth, and building a healthier company through theREFINEnetwork. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 – What's Not Working in the Salon Industry? 03:37 – Should You Let an Employee Stay After Giving Notice? 05:03 – The First Things Leaders Should Consider 06:11 – Why Employee Posture Matters 08:18 – When Letting Someone Stay Actually Works 09:10 – Protect the Team That's Staying 09:51 – Setting Clear Expectations and Boundaries 10:34 – Questions Every Exit Conversation Should Include 12:17 – Don't Make Emotional Decisions 13:59 – Exit Interviews and Leadership Lessons 15:01 – Why Growth Sometimes Means People Leave 17:09 – When It's Time to End the Transition Early 20:18 – Why Community Makes Better Leaders

June 22, 202623 min

What Makes Great Stylists Grow Faster

What helps some stylists grow faster than others? It's not just technical skill. In this conversation from ABS Chicago, Ruthie and Alondra of Silver Salon share the mindset shifts that have shaped their careers in just two years behind the chair. They talk about building a strong foundation before chasing every new opportunity, creating unforgettable client experiences, receiving feedback without becoming defensive, and why self-awareness might be one of the most important skills a stylist can develop. Whether you're new behind the chair or years into your career, this episode is a reminder that lasting growth comes from staying curious, coachable, and committed to learning. If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe for more conversations on leadership, culture, business, and personal growth in the beauty industry. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 If You Could Only Keep One Thing... 02:31 First Impressions of ABS Chicago 03:13 Lessons on Client Experience & Consultations 05:04 What Builds Client Retention? 07:36 Enneagram Strengths & Blind Spots 11:08 When Should Stylists Learn Extensions? 14:23 Advice for New Stylists 15:17 Why Feedback Is a Gift 19:35 Communication, Growth & Self-Awareness 21:03 The Power of Knowing Yourself 22:29 Final Thoughts

June 8, 202620 min

From Stylist Thinking to Owner Thinking: The Numbers That Changed Everything

In this episode, Erin Silver shares what happened when she went through SCALE for a second time and why the experience landed differently than it did the first time. Erin opens up about stepping fully into her role as an owner, uncovering financial realities that were limiting her salon's growth, and using data to create greater clarity and buy-in across her team. The conversation explores pricing, profitability, leadership development, delegation, and the importance of moving beyond a stylist mindset to lead a business effectively. Erin also shares how investing in her own growth as a leader has impacted her team, strengthened her culture, and created opportunities for people at every stage of their careers. Whether you're a salon owner, leader, or aspiring entrepreneur, this episode offers practical insights on building a stronger, healthier business through intentional leadership and financial clarity. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork 00:00 Running Shoes, Magnesium & TikTok Shop 03:03 Why SCALE Hit Differently the Second Time 03:56 Thinking Like an Owner Instead of a Stylist 04:37 The Numbers That Were Holding Us Back 05:19 Pricing Services with Data, Not Guesswork 07:13 How to Get Team Buy-In 10:42 Developing High-Performing Salon Teams 11:29 Stop Micromanaging and Start Leading 13:41 Why Leaders Need to Be Visible 15:19 The Belief Shift That Changes Everything 16:27 What Every New Salon Owner Should Do First 18:24 Final Thoughts

May 25, 202617 min

The Fear About Raising Your Prices | From a Stylist Perspective

What does it actually feel like to go through a major salon pricing shift? In this episode, Christopher sits down with Megan from Mercer Hair Studio to talk about her experience going through SCALE and the emotional reality of raising prices as a stylist. From anxiety and overthinking to confidence and clarity, Megan shares what it looked like to navigate pricing changes inside a growing salon, communicate those changes to clients, and confront the internal fear of wondering if she was truly “worth” more. The conversation dives into: - The mindset challenges behind price increases - What SCALE implementation actually felt like - Fear of losing loyal clients - Communicating pricing with confidence - The connection between pricing and self-worth - Building financial stability behind the chair - Growth culture inside Mercer Hair Studio If pricing conversations make you uncomfortable or you’ve ever questioned your value as a stylist, this episode offers a real and honest perspective from someone who went through it firsthand. 🔗 Resources & Links 📈 Learn more about Growth Coaching: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/growth-coaching 🎓 Explore The Artist Academy: https://www.therefinenetwork.com/artistacademy 📊 Discover SCALE (the Refine systems program): https://www.therefinenetwork.com/scale 📲 Download The Refine Network App (Apple & Android): Search “The Refine Network” in your app store 📸 Follow us on Instagram: @therefinenetwork Chapters 00:00 – ABS Chicago, Packing Styles & Enneagram Talk 02:29 – Meet Megan from Mercer Hair Studio 03:10 – Megan’s First Reaction to SCALE 04:08 – Building Her Career & Moving to South Carolina 05:06 – Growing a Diverse, Fully Booked Clientele 06:26 – Operating at 110% Behind the Chair 07:47 – Implementing SCALE Inside the Salon 08:29 – “Am I Worth This New Price?” 09:24 – Learning How to Talk About Price Increases 10:49 – What Actually Happened After Raising Prices 11:48 – Financial Freedom & Charging More 13:01 – Advice for Stylists Struggling With Pricing 14:13 – Growth Culture at Mercer Hair Studio 15:43 – Letting Go of Scarcity & Fear 17:00 – Final Thoughts & Outro