The Occupational Philosophers - A not-so-serious business podcast to spark Creativity, Imagination and Curiosity

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Oct 2026

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Would you like to unlock the creative, imaginative and innovative potential in your team or organisation…BUT…don’t want to listen to another serious podcast which offers 7 steps, 5 habits, 3 mantras, and a hard sell in a pear tree? Then join ‘The Occupational Philosophers’, a ‘not-so-serious’ podcast with Simon Banks (middle-aged Australian surfer man, artist and published author) and John Rice (middle-aged British man with a love of curiosity and philosophy) as they chat with a ‘clowder’ (great word!) of curious cats from the fields of Comedy, Academia, Philosophy, Neuroscience, Psychology, Design, Marketing, and Business, to explore how you, your team, and your organisation, can develop your curiosity, spark your creativity, and free your imagination, so you can grow your business and your people….sounds great huh?! But don’t just take our word for it, read what our listeners think: “Worth a listen, one of them has a strange Australian accent” “They’re not philosophers, they’re idiots” “If you like business, philosophy, humour, creativity, and imagination, then have a listen - if not, then I would leave well alone” http://www.occupationalphilosophers.com

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October 23, 2026Episode 1241 hr 12 min

Ep 124: How creativity and imagination in communities can change the world, with guest Jon Alexander, author of Citizens

In this episode, The Occupational Philosophers chat with Jon Alexander, author, thinker and practitioner working to change one of the most powerful stories shaping modern society: the idea that our primary role is to be consumers. They explore a wide range of topics including: How we firstly need to honestly face the big challenges we are experiencing if we are to solve them Why we need to change our story from one that casts us as consumers to one where we see ourselves as citizens Examples of what a citizen story looks like from across the world Where do we start? Transforming institutions or transforming communities? Using Purpose, Platform and Prototype as a more liberating approach to change What we can learn from the ancient wisdom of Lao Tzu Reframing our roles in ‘The Drama Triangle’ as a way forward How might organisations better engage their employees and unleash more of their creativity? Who are Alan and Ralph? And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s: The Ministry of Imagination About Jon Alexander Jon is an author, thinker and practitioner working to change one of the most powerful stories shaping modern society: the idea that our primary role is to be consumers. He began his career in advertising working with major brands at agencies including BBDO and Fallon. He was successful but increasingly found himself questioning the deeper consequences of an industry competing to influence people thousands of times every day. His question became less “How do we make better advertising?” and more “What happens to us when we are continually told that we are consumers?” That curiosity led him away from advertising and into academic study — including three master's degrees exploring consumerism and its alternatives — and ultimately to co-founding the New Citizen Project in 2014. Its central proposition is deceptively simple: what changes when organisations stop treating people primarily as consumers and instead invite them to participate as citizens? He developed these ideas in his 2022 book Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything Is All of Us, written with Ariane Conrad. Rather than simply arguing that people should behave differently, He is interested in the environments, institutions and narratives that allow people to exercise agency. His definition of citizenship explicitly includes imagination: the capacity to see how things could be, rather than merely accepting how they currently are - and his work therefore has a fascinating overlap with creativity. He is also a Visiting Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation, and co-host of the How To Save Democracy podcast - an intensely interesting listen! Learn more about Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-alexander-11b66345/ https://jonalexander.net/ https://www.instagram.com/thecitizensguy/ https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/citizens-why-the-key-to-fixing-everything-is-all-of-us-jon-alexander/f1ebc4d821caf83b?ean=9781912454884 References https://ash.harvard.edu/resources/doce-beats-doge-the-case-for-meaningful-government-transformation-through-citizen-empowerment/ https://thecynefin.co/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching-laotzu/taoteching-17.htm https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/screw-this-lets-try-something-else/id1863391095 https://www.regen.melbourne/ https://www.nurturedevelopment.org/who-we-are/cormac-russell/ https://www.octaviabutler.com/theauthor https://sarahwilson.com/ https://www.futurafoundation.org/time-machine-porto https://events.humanitix.com/jon-alexander https://www.actionism.space/citizen-friday/ John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse! Say Hello to the OP www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN www.bowlandconsulting.com SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au

September 27, 2026Episode 1231 hr 23 min

Ep 123: If a Museum Curator explored your Organisational Culture, what would they display? With guest, Jenny Theolin

If a Museum Curator explored your Organisational Culture, what would they display? The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 123 - Jenny Theolin Jenny Theolin is a Stockholm-based designer, facilitator, curator, photographer and author. She spent her twenties and early thirties running an independent creative practice in London before taking her studio back to Stockholm. Since 2009, she's run Studio Theolin, designing learning experiences, keynotes and culture programmes for organisations including Volvo Cars, the European Parliament and the London Stock Exchange. In 2023 she wrote, curated, designed and personally financed Dare to Facilitate: 320 pages, 120 dares and 39 contributors across nine countries. Along the way, she's built exhibitions out of ideas most people would dismiss, including a lolcat art show that raised over £4,000 for a dogs and cats home and a global campaign for Comic Sans's 20th birthday. If that's not enough, she's also the founder of the Museum of Organisational Culture. The conversation starts with how someone who does almost everything makes sense of it (her answer: making ideas happen, and getting shit done). From there it's the importance of aggressive curiosity and the Museum of Organisational Culture: a growing collection of donated objects that make an organisation's invisible culture visible, from a staff T-shirt to the office fruit bowl that vanished in the pandemic. Behind it sits Curatology, her method for reading organisational culture the way a curator reads a collection, in five steps: C.U.R.I.O. - Choose, Uncover, Reflect, Interpret & Offer. Then there's her marvellous book, Dare to Facilitate, her exhibitions and how she designs events from the invitation onwards. John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse! Timestamps 00:00 – What's caught your curious eye: vertical drinking and the V&A East Storehouse 00:04 – Meet Jenny (and the intro that made Simon and John feel inadequate) 00:07 – Sweden's missing summer and being aggressively curious 00:12 – Dinner party questions: tufting, ceramics, photo lunches and building your own communities 00:22 – The Venn diagram: making ideas happen 00:27 – The Museum of Organisational Culture and curatology 00:37 – A protest T-shirt and the vanishing office fruit bowl 00:40 – Dare to Facilitate, and a game of "dare or dare" 00:47 – Designing learning from the first invite, and why little learning happens in the room 00:56 – Thought experiment: musée or not musée? 01:05 – The LOLcat exhibition 01:10 – Rapid fire, what's next, and where to find Jenny Pre-order Jenny's book! The Museum You Carry (pre-order): https://www.museumoforganisationalculture.com/the-book Live links Jenny Theolin Studio Theolin: https://www.studiotheolin.com The Museum of Organisational Culture: https://www.museumoforganisationalculture.com Dare to Facilitate: https://www.studiotheolin.com/shop/p/dare-to-facilitate-buy The Curatologist (Substack): https://thecuratologist.substack.com Toolbox Toolbox: https://www.toolboxtoolbox.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennytheolin/ People & Work Mentioned V&A East Storehouse: https://www.vam.ac.uk/east/storehouse/visit Abracademy: https://abracademy.com Hyper Island: https://www.hyperisland.com BBC on Jenny's LOLcat exhibition: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-21166326 Charlie Mackesy, The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/439667/the-boy-the-mole-the-fox-and-the-horse-by-charlie-mackesy/9781529105100 Museum of Broken Relationships: https://brokenships.com Cup Noodles Museum Osaka Ikeda: https://www.cupnoodles-museum.jp/en/osaka_ikeda/ Crocodile Harry's Underground Nest & Dugout: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/crocodile-harry-s-underground-nest-dugout The National Poo Museum: https://poomuseum.org The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com Simon — https://www.simonbanks.com.au Standout Line "There's a museum for absolutely everything apart from the place where we are most of our working lives." As always: Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

September 16, 2026Episode 1221 hr 39 min

Ep. 122: What can change the world and make it better? Play, creativity, and self-belief with guest Ash Perrin (From the vault)

How play, creativity and self-belief can change the world with Ash Perrin In a reboot episode with one of their favourite guests (aren't they all favourites?), The Occupational Philosophers revisit their chat with global humanitarian, childhood conservationist, lifelong play enthusiast and founder of The Flying Seagull Project, Ash Perrin. Since 2008, The Flying Seagull Charity Project has brought love, light and laughter to more than 200,000 children in 23 countries across four continents in challenging and desperate situations, including hospitals, orphanages and refugee camps. They use clowning, magic, games and arts workshops to replace fear and uncertainty with positive human connections based on respect, happiness and laughter. Ash is the author of ‘The Real Play Revolution’, a TED Speaker and an all-around creative and joyous person. In this episode, they explore: How play is a universal feeling of liberation, creativity and expression and a safety net for learning Why the world is just waiting for your amazing ideas How to bring 'play' into the workplace that doesn't make you feel like an idiot That the best ideas and the most stupid ideas come out of the same well If you are below the age of 99, being asked to grow up is an act of violence They also dive into: The emergence of the Monkey Christ Why neckties should be banned unless fluorescent The board of brilliance and the bucket of goodbyes As always, there are some great thought experiments such as: If I were Prime Minister..... Is this a real job or not? (Surf barista anyone?) Links The Flying Seagull Project https://www.theflyingseagullproject.com/ The Real Play Revolution (book) https://www.amazon.com/Real-Play-Revolution-Need-Silly/dp/1786782235 Ash Perrin Ted Talk https://www.ted.com/talks/ash_perrin_the_power_of_play?language=en Check out the Bus https://www.facebook.com/flyingseagulls/posts/3741712149233070 The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com Simon — simonbanks.com.au: https://www.simonbanks.com.au Simon Showreel: Standout Line "It is not the fault of the artist, it is the fault of the person who commissioned the artist!" As always: Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life as always, stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

September 1, 2026Episode 1211 hr 15 min

Ep 121: How to be a better public speaker with guest, Dr Louise Mahler (From the vault)

How to be a better Public Speaker with Dr Lousie Mahler. (This is a reboot of episode 71, recorded a few years back - and one of our favourites) Dr Louise is the polymath's polymath and is recognised as a Top 30 Global Guru in both Body Language and Communication. She was an Opera singer for 10 years with the Vienna State Opera. Louise’s qualifications include B.Econ; B. Mus; Post Grad Dip Music; L.Mus.A; Master of Applied Science in Organisational Change and a Master Practitioner in Neuro-Linguistic Programming. She has completed an award-winning PhD around the unsung wisdom of the mind-body-voice connection she named Vocal Intelligence. She is a sought-after commentator discussing leadership, body language and effective presentation on television, radio and in the media. Her recent interviews with Channel 7 where she analyses the body language of Harry and Meghan Sussex have over 2 million views. Louise's clients include Fortune 500 clients around the globe. Louise was voted Keynotes Speaker of the Year in 2021 by the Professional Speakers Association and is the author of "Resonate: for people who need to be heard" She is the virtuoso of the voice, the high priestess of hot air and the femme fatale of unfailing attraction. In this episode we explore: The importance of breathing out (not just in) Why we all need to channel ancient Rome and have way more Grrrrrrrravitas Why communication should not just be a linear give and receive Why we need to stop making excuses for communication (including being left-handed) How we need to embrace Move, Move, Move How wit and levity are wingmen for all types of communication Why it's important to be an active listener, not just a passive listener The importance of saying ‘yes, please!’ more often More about Louise https://louisemahler.com.au/ Say Hello www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/ SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg Take the Innovation Scorecard! https://empoweringinnovation.scoreapp.com/ Take creativity & innovation to the next level Answer 25 questions and we’ll send you a personalised report to benchmark the level of creativity and innovation in your organisation It just takes a few minutes takes just a few minutes It’s completely free Receive customised results instantly

September 1, 2026Episode 10429 min

Ep 104 Inbetweener - Creative Insights you can plan your life around

SHOW NOTES In this short, sharp Inbetweener episode, The Occupational Philosophers continue to delve back into some highlights from the first 100 episodes and some sage advice from guests who have helped populate the ‘Maniguesto’ tree… Ian Gilbert…Do things no-one else does Mike Parsons …If you want to transform the world, start by transforming yourself Professor David Cropley….Creativity is like spinach! Tiffany Markman….In order to be creative, don’t be an insular arsehole …or asshole…. Dr Barbara Doran ….Draw, use your hands Tim Vaughan-Hughes….Fail again but fail better Jemma Enright….Stay curious They hope you enjoy the show. FYI: The Inbetweeners episodes are just that - smaller episodes 'in between' the longer format episodes designed to give a fruity burst of energy to enable you to be the most curious, creative and imaginative cat you can be - and have some fun in the process. References: https://www.independentthinking.co.uk/speakers/ian-gilbert/ https://www.moonshots.io/ https://people.unisa.edu.au/David.Cropley https://tiffanymarkman.co.za/ https://www.barbaradoran.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-vaughan-hughes https://www.linkedin.com/in/jemmaenright Say Hello www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs: JOHN: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com/ SIMON: www.simonbanks.com.au SIMON SHOWREEL: https://youtu.be/YZQdJI6qGvg

August 26, 2026Episode 12010 min

Ep.120: The fear of being judged Is Killing your Creativity | Nuggets With Dr Peter Lovatt

Why Movement Changes How You Think | Nuggets With Peter Lovatt The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 120 Nuggets With Dr Peter Lovatt — Dance Psychologist and the show's very first-ever guest. John and Simon launch a new segment, likely the poorly named 'Nuggets', by digging back into the archive and pulling out the three ideas (nuggets) from Peter's original episode: what movement does to thinking, why dancing first beats thinking first, and why fear of judgement quietly kills creativity and curiosity. Timestamps 00:00 — Intro to the show and the new Nuggets segment 00:01 — Meet Dr Peter Lovatt, the show's first-ever guest 00:02 — Idea 1: Movement and thinking — structured movement for convergent problems, improvised movement for divergent ones 00:03 — Idea 2: "Dance first, think later" and how movement disrupts default thinking patterns 00:05 — Idea 3: The fear of being judged, and how it shuts down dance, creativity and curiosity alike 00:07 — Thought experiment: encouraging more movement inside your organisation 00:07 — Practical experiment: designing your day for multiple moments of movement 00:08 — Wrap-up with a Nietzsche quote on movement and ideas 00:09 — Subscribe and outro Find out more Peter Lovatt https://peterlovatt.com https://academy.doctordance.com https://peterlovatt.com/the-dance-cure https://x.com/DrPeterLovatt The Occupational Philosophers https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com https://www.bowlandconsulting.com https://www.simonbanks.com.au Key Ideas Convergent Problems Get Structure, Divergent Problems Get Wiggle — Lovatt's advice for revision was to match the movement to the thinking task: structured movement like running sharpens convergent, single-answer problem solving, while loose, improvised movement (his "bit of a John Travolta") loosens up divergent thinking for open-ended, creative problems. Dance First, Think Later — Lovatt's central claim reverses the usual order of operations. Moving first, before you've worked out what to think, breaks your existing thought patterns and forces the brain into new territory rather than looping the same ideas. Movement Changes Your State Immediately — Beyond the cognitive shift, moving also changes how you feel in the moment, through the endorphins it releases. The state change is instant, whether or not the movement ever tips into actual dancing. The Fear of Being Judged Is the Real Blocker — Dance gets written off early as something only children do, or something you need to be brilliant at to attempt. That same fear of judgement, not a lack of ability, is what stops most adults from dancing, singing, or making anything at all. The Fear Shows Up in the Boardroom Too — The same self-consciousness that stops someone dancing in public is what stops them asking a question in a meeting. Teams that don't challenge assumptions or chase breakthrough moments are often just as afraid of looking silly as a nervous dancer is. Standout Line "Dance first, think later. It's the natural order."

August 17, 2026Episode 1191 hr 21 min

Ep.119 - The Art of asking Great Questions (and how not to lose it) with guest Larry Robertson - Author, Entrepreneur and Scholar

The Art of Asking Great Questions (and how not to lose it) The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 119 - Larry Robertson Larry Robertson is an author, innovation advisor, and Inc. Magazine columnist and founder of Lighthouse Consulting, where he's spent three decades helping organisations successfully manage growth. He's a graduate of Stanford and Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management; he was named a US Fulbright Scholar in 2021, (a rare distinction for someone working outside academia). If that's not enough, he's also an Adjunct Professor! In his work, he's watched the world drift away from real questions and toward statements dressed up as questions, which, unsurprisingly, is the subject of his fourth book, Great Question: The Art of the Ask. This episode dives into what that lack of curiosity can cost us. Importantly, the book explores what we get back when we relearn the practice of noticing, intellectual humility, and the "adjacent possible" as a way of seeing what's one step from where we already are. It also unearths the bigger question of what it means to be human. Larry is possibly the world's nicest man, and Simon and John hope you enjoy listening to the show as much as they did recording it. There are so many gems here. Timestamps 00:00 – What's caught your curious eye and Simon's favourite artwork story 00:08 – Larry's curious eye: yellow finches, and the joy of seeing 00:13 – Dinner party questions: The big question Larry keeps circling back to 00:20 – Larry's Venn diagram, and his to-ask list (with an assist from Mary Oliver) 00:25 – Where the new book started: the pattern across his first three books 00:29 – The 25-year observation: statements replacing real questions 00:32 – Four things a question is: an invitation, a frame, a behaviour, an identity 00:37 – Noticing versus the practiced noticer 00:40 – Stuart Kauffman and the adjacent possible 00:43 – Slow looking, the National Gallery, and Claire Bown's "The Art Engager" 00:47 – Training medical students by having them diagnose art 00:50 – Intellectual humility: the Hero's Journey, three levels, and the mantras for practicing it 00:58 – Warm data versus cold data, and reframing the data-centre problem 01:02 – Why the book matters: mattering, meaning, and being a questioning species 01:07 – Jeopardy! Possibly the world's best ever thought experiment 01:13 – Rapid fire: the manifesto addition, plus book and film recommendations 01:18 – What's next for Larry, and where to find him Live Links Larry Robertson Website: https://lrspeaks.com/ Great Question: The Art of the Ask (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Great-Question-Getting-More-Really/dp/0983757461 Lighthouse Consulting: https://lighthouse-consulting.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larryrobertson3rd/ Column — Inc. Magazine: https://www.inc.com/author/larry-robertson People & Work Mentioned World Peace Game Foundation (Robin Klingler): https://worldpeacegame.org/ Stuart Kauffman, theoretical biologist and originator of "the adjacent possible": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Kauffman Claire Brown — The Art Engager / Thinking Museum: https://thinkingmuseum.com/ Project Zero, Harvard Graduate School of Education: https://pz.harvard.edu/ Centre for BrainHealth, UT Dallas (art-based medical student training): https://centerforbrainhealth.org/ Temple Grandin: An Open Door (documentary): https://www.templegrandindocumentary.com/ The Occupational Philosophers Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com John — Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com Simon — simonbanks.com.au: https://www.simonbanks.com.au Standout Line "What will you realise soon that you already know?" As always: Stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life as always, stay curious, play more, have fun, make stuff, and as you leave the door, date life.

July 1, 2026Episode 1181 hr 30 min

Ep. 118 - Casa de Cambio x Occupational Philosophers, with guest Natasha Redman

In Episode 118,The Occupational Philosophers dive into a totally different format! Together with Natasha Redman, host of the very popular‘Casa De Cambio’ podcast, they have created their first ‘mash up’ podcast episode which invites them to be both guests and hosts to each other on one show! In this episode they explore a wide range of topics including: What’s the best Quentin Tarantino movie? What was the best career advice you’ve ever received? What have John and Simon learned about curiosity in over 100 episodes? Who are the 4 horsemen of Nirvana? Why saying ‘I don’t know’ is so powerful How to stay curious (even when under pressure) What questions should organisations be wrestling with today? How should any change initiative start? How can you implement changes when ‘all is in flux’? If you change all the planks of the ‘Ship of Theseus’, is it still the ‘Ship of Theseus’? Where do organisations struggle when it comes to change? The danger of ‘Toxic positivity’ and how to counter it Why ‘pet projects’ can derail change programmes What is the secret of the universe….sorry….scrub that, wrong podcast And as ever, enjoy the Thought Experiment …this time it’s: Who’s in the house? About Natasha Redman Natasha Redman is an experienced change practitioner and project professional, with a proven track record in system implementations, organisational change initiatives and large-scale transformations. She has managed change initiatives at Australia’s biggest companies (including ANZ, Telstra, Australia Post, Accenture, NAB, Newcrest), holds multiple certifications and is well versed in both agile and waterfall delivery methods. Natasha’s passion for all things change led to her creating and hosting a successful podcast about change, technology, innovation and leadership. Learn more about Natasha https://www.linkedin.com/in/natasharedman/ https://www.casadecambio.com.au/ References https://www.thethe.com/ https://www.amazon.com/World-Needs-Your-Art-Creativity/dp/1683503732 https://conneradvisory.com/daryl-conner/ Bad Boy Bubby https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106341/ Casa De Cambio - Free webinar 9th July https://www.linkedin.com/posts/changify_agile-changemanagement-erptransformation-activity-7475121753778806785-K9ax?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAABIFFkBQKyN-YVNoL5dWZCukKlPAEKDwCI John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse! Say Hello to the OP www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN www.bowlandconsulting.com SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au

June 26, 2026Episode 1171 hr 6 min

Ep. 117 Why your Company Events are killing Culture (and what Burning Man gets right) | With guest, Jasper Vallance

The Occupational Philosophers | Episode 117 | With Jasper Vallance Jasper Vallance is a social entrepreneur who left his corporate life at Google to create a life of meaning driven by his passions. As an event architect, he became the founder of Australia's largest sober dance party. He has taken what he learned at Burning Man to rethink what corporate gatherings could actually do for people. This episode is about why many company events don't work and what intentional gathering looks like when it's done right. In this episode, they cover the collapse of Friday drinks, the WeWork meltdown (yes, that one), and why alcohol has never actually been the social lubricant we think it is. Timestamps 05:00 – Guest intro: Jasper Vallance 07:30 – Burning Seed relaunch — Cosmic Canyon 10:24 – Burning Man 101: it's 10 principles 12:19 – Dinner Party Round begins 12:41 – What's giving you joy? Who inspires you? 16:12 – Big question: can the magic of Burning Man translate to company events? 20:49 – Why Jasper is always in costume and why that matters 21:22 – The secret sauce: costumes do what alcohol does, without the damage 22:20 – Google, 2007, and what the digital age did to human connection 26:01 – How Burning Man changed his life 27:42 – How Xstatic Sunsets was born: the natural high through dance 28:22 – Walking the talk: how do you actually create belonging? 30:15 – The welcome experience: hugs, costumes, facilitators 31:42 – The corporate opportunity: what if the CEO wore a chicken outfit? 33:00 – Storytelling starts before people arrive and the art of building anticipation 35:14 – Thought Experiment: Jasper Vallance, Event Detective 51:44 – Rapid fire: one thing you couldn't live without 53:04 – Dr. Peter Lovatt: dance first, think later 56:19 – What's next: Burning Seed and Immersive8 57:42 – Where to find Jasper online 58:50 – Post-show reflections: John and Simon on the art of gathering Key Ideas Purpose before planning. Most corporate events treat purpose as an afterthought. Jasper argues it should be the first thing locked in — not as a value statement, but as a lived experience the event is designed to create. Participation over presentation. Burning Man works because everyone is in the action. The moment people become spectators, you lose them. Same applies to company offsites. Costumes do what alcohol does, without the damage. They lower inhibitions, break social hierarchies, and give people permission to play. Jasper has proven this at scale. The welcome is everything. The first point of contact sets the entire tone. Not an icebreaker on a slide. An actual human welcome that makes people feel like they belong. Passions connect people across silos. Ask everyone what they love doing outside work. Cyclists ride together. Cooks cook together. Then they come back with something real in common. Post-COVID, Friday drinks aren't coming back. Younger generations want to go home. The social fabric of the office has changed. The answer isn't to recreate the old model — it's to reimagine what connection looks like now. Standout Line "I have guys coming up at the end of the night going, 'I almost had a drink before I came in, but I'm so glad I didn't.' That is the experience I'm trying to deliver." Live Links Jasper Vallance - Personal site: https://www.jaspervallance.com - Immersive8 (corporate events agency): https://immersive8.agency - Xstatic Sunsets (sober dance parties): https://www.xstaticsunsets.com People & Movements Mentioned - Peter Sharp & The Liberators: https://www.theliberators.org - Peter Sharp (personal site): https://www.petersharp.com.au - Dr. Peter Lovatt (dance psychologist, Episode 4/5): https://www.drpeterdance.com Events & Festivals - Burning Man: https://burningman.org - Burning Seed (Australian regional Burning Man event): https://www.burningseed.com - Blazing Swan (WA regional burn): https://blazingswan.com.au - Elsewhere (the successor to Nowhere, Spain's European burn): https://nobodies.team - Bali Spirit Festival: https://www.balispiritfestival.com Events Referenced - Fyre Festival — Netflix documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81035279 - WeWork: Or the Making and Breaking of a $47 Billion Unicorn — documentary: https://www.hulu.com/movie/wecrashed-the-rise-and-fall-of-wework-documentary - Woodstock 99: Peace, Love, and Rage — Netflix documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81258733 Get in Touch: The Occupational Philosophers - Website: https://www.occupationalphilosophers.com - Substack: https://occupationalphilosophers.substack.com - John: Bowland Consulting: https://www.bowlandconsulting.com - Simon: https://www.simonbanks.com.au

May 28, 2026Episode 11454 min

Ep. 114 The science behind Arts on Prescription (and why the funding hasn't caught up) with Professor Katherine Boydell

In this episode 114, the Occupational Philosophers chat with the wonderfully curious Professor Katherine Boydell. Katherine is an internationally recognised leader in qualitative inquiry and arts-based knowledge translation in mental health and social care with innovative approaches to create knowledge and translate empirical research using arts-based methods, including art installations. She is the founder and head of the award-winning Arts-based Knowledge Translation Lab at Black Dog Institute and Director, Knowledge Translation, Maridulu Budyari Gumal – Sydney Partnership for Health Education Research and Enterprise. She was appointed as a Fellow of the prestigious Australian Academy of Social Sciences in 2020. She is Vice-President of the Arts & Health Network of NSW/ACT and is Executive Editor of the Arts & Health journal and Associate Editor of Early Intervention in Psychiatry. She has been a Visiting Professor at the University of Wollongong, University of Sydney, Rotterdam Arts & Science Lab, Radboud University, and Singapore Art Museum. She has published over 300 peer-reviewed journal articles, book chapters and books as well as other arts-based outputs such as research-based installations and exhibits and two PhDs. Her recent book, Applying Body Mapping in Research: An Arts-Based Method, brings together years of practice using this powerful participatory technique across health and social care settings around the world. This is some impressive stuff! In this episode, they explore a wide range of topics including: What sparked Katherine's passion for arts-based research The Salon des Refusés: The alternative Archibald Prize exhibition Abstract painting, layering, and what lies underneath Five grandsons and the joy of childlike curiosity What actually counts as evidence in research? How Katherine's lab uses art to create AND share knowledge ReBloom: An interactive digital installation about self-harm, hope and human connection Body mapping: tracing, filling, and telling stories through the body Taking research-based art into shopping centres and office lobbies with Dexus The Think, Feel, Do framework for measuring impact Deep looking and why we need more of it Arts on prescription and the therapeutic consequences of engaging with art Why the funding still hasn't caught up with the evidence Chapters 0:00 Opening quote: Embrace Messiness 0:26 Intro & Guest Introduction 0:44 Introducing Professor Katherine Boydell 3:03 Curious Eye: The Salon des Refusés 5:05 Dinner Party Round 13:15 Arts-Based Research: What Katherine Does 17:37 ReBloom: Arts & Self-Harm Research 29:48 Body Mapping Explained 36:59 Dexus Partnership & Public Installations 43:23 Wrap-Up & Rapid Fire Questions 48:59 Post-Show Reflections John and Simon hope you enjoy the show as much as they enjoyed making it. It's the reason they started this show - interesting, cool and creative people who have taken the path less travelled and kicked arse! Learn more about Catherine Black Dog Institute https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/ Arts-Based Knowledge Translation Lab (overview page) https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/research/ Sydney Partnership for Health Education Research and Enterprise (SPHERE) https://www.thesphere.com.au/ Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-boydell-87b3867/ Arts and Health Journal: https://www.tandfonline.com/journals/rahe20 Rebloom Project https://www.uts.edu.au/news/2025/10/rebloom-how-an-art-installation-is-changing-conversations-about-self-harm Mentions Archibald Prize https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/prizes/archibald/ Salon des Refusés https://www.salonrefuses.com.au/ Art Gallery of New South Wales https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/ Daisy Fancourt The Art Cure https://www.penguin.com.au/books/art-cure-9781529935547https://www.penguin.co.uk/ World Health Organisation – What is the evidence on the role of the arts in improving health and well-being? A scoping review https://www.who.int/europe/publications/i/item/9789289054553 Arts & Health Journal https://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rahe20/current Early Intervention in Psychiatry https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/17517893 Say Hello to the OP www.occupationalphilosophers.com Their day jobs JOHN Bowland Consulting SIMON www.simonbanks.com.au SIMON SHOWREEL