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Search Off the Record

Search Off the Record

Hosted by Google

TechnologyInterviews guests

Episodes

100

Latest episode

May 2026

Language

EN

About the show

Search Off the Record takes you behind the scenes of Google Search and its inner workings! In each episode, the folks from the Search Relations team will give you background info on the decision-making behind launches, feature prioritization in Search Console, and the projects Google Search teams are working on. They will share fun stories from the many conferences they attend as well as from their day-to-day working life at Google. They will also dive into the currently trending conversations in the SEO community at large. Have a listen!

Listen to episodes

57 recent
June 15, 202626 min

Should I use markdown for my site?

Should you convert your website into Markdown to help Large Language Models (LLMs) understand your content better? Is "llms.txt" worth the effort for SEO? In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin Splitt and John Mueller from the Google Search Relations team dive deep into the history of Markdown, its rise in the AI era, and whether it holds any real weight for search engine discovery. In this episode, you'll learn: The Origins of Markdown: From John Gruber and Aaron Swartz to its status as the "language of GitHub." Markdown vs. HTML: Why the "cleanliness" of Markdown is tempting for developers but potentially risky for site structure. LLMs & Markdown: Do AI crawlers actually prefer Markdown, or are they already experts at parsing HTML? The "Parallel Version" Trap: Why creating a separate text/Markdown version of your site for AI can lead to the same maintenance nightmares as dynamic rendering. Use Cases that Make Sense: When Markdown is actually superior (like developer documentation) and when it's totally unnecessary (like your shoe catalog). Key Takeaways for SEOs & Developers: Crawlers are built for the "messy" web: Google and other engines have decades of experience parsing HTML. Don't sacrifice discovery: Headers, footers, and sidebars in HTML provide critical context for site structure that a raw Markdown file might lack. Maintenance is king: Avoid the complexity of maintaining two versions of the same content. Chapters 0:00 - Introduction: Should we all be using Markdown? 3:45 - The history and purpose of Markdown. 7:15 - Why developers love it: Separation of style and content. 11:20 - Do crawlers need Markdown to understand your site? 14:50 - The danger of "parallel versions" and dynamic rendering lessons. 17:30 - Discussing the "llms.txt" proposal and AI agents. 21:00 - Where Markdown actually makes sense (Developer Docs). 24:00 - Final verdict: Stick to HTML for the web. Resources Mentioned: Google Search Central: https://developers.google.com/search Are you using Markdown for your site's frontend or just as a backend source? Let us know in the comments! Episode transcript →  https://goo.gle/sotr111-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral  Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, John Mueller

May 7, 202633 min

Vibe Coding - yay or nay?

In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin Splitt and John Mueller from Google's Search Relations team dive deep into the world of AI-assisted development. They explore the reality of "Vibe Coding", the process of building apps and websites using natural language instead of manual syntax. Whether you're a developer looking to offload tedious setup tasks or an SEO expert trying to understand how AI-generated sites impact search, this conversation is for you. In this episode, you'll learn: * What is Vibe Coding? Understanding the shift from writing syntax to "talking" to your IDE. * The Developer's Trap: Why you still need technical knowledge (like linters, deployment scripts, and GitHub Actions) to prevent AI from breaking your project. * SEO & AI Architecture: Why you can't just "add SEO" at the end—and how to guide AI to build with canonicals and sitemaps from day one. * Tooling Breakdown: Martin and John share their experiences with AI Studio, Gemini CLI, Firebase, and GitHub. * Testing with AI Agents: How to use AI to remote control browsers (like Chromium) for automated testing. Chapters 00:00 – Intro: What exactly is "Vibe Coding"? 01:32 – Martin's experiment with AI Studio and client-side JS. 03:30 – The "English as a Programming Language" allure. 06:00 – Why the AI makes assumptions (and why that's dangerous). 08:51 – "Sprinkling SEO" vs. Building for SEO from the start. 12:40 – Can AI test itself? Using browser agents for QA. 20:27 – The technical debt of AI: Refactoring and maintainability. 25:42 – Moving to the terminal: Gemini CLI & Cloud Code. 31:34 – Using AI to skip the setup work. Resources Mentioned: * Google AI Studio * Firebase Hosting * Gemini CLI / Cloud Code * GitHub Actions for CI/CD What's your experience with Vibe Coding? Let us know in the comments! Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr110-transcript  Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral  Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, John Mueller

May 1, 202633 min

How AI Is Changing Google Search and SEO

In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin speaks with Nikola Todorovic (director of Software Engineering at Google Search) about how AI is changing Google Search. They discuss the evolution from traditional search to AI Overviews and AI Mode, how Google tests and launches search changes, and why query behaviour is becoming more conversational and complex. Nikola also explains the role of machine learning in Search, how features are evaluated before launch, and what site owners and SEOs should focus on as AI becomes a bigger part of the search experience. If you work in SEO or web development, this episode offers a clear look at how Google approaches AI in Search and what it means for the future of search visibility. Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr109-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt   Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral  Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Nikola Todorovic

April 23, 202627 min

Analysing Robots.txt at scale with HTTP Archive and BigQuery

In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin and Gary turn a simple robots.txt question into a data‑driven deep dive using HTTP Archive, WebPageTest, custom JavaScript metrics, and BigQuery. They explore how millions of real robots.txt files are actually written in 2025–2026, which directives and user‑agents are most common, and what that means for modern crawling and AI bots. Perfect for beginner to mid‑level developers and SEOs, you'll learn how large‑scale web measurement works (HTTP Archive, Chrome UX Report, Web Almanac), and how to turn raw crawl data into actionable SEO insights. Subscribe for more candid conversations about crawling, indexing, and the data behind how Google Search and the web really work. Resources: Web Almanac →  https://almanac.httparchive.org/en/2025/ Robotstxt custom metric for the HTTP Archive →  https://github.com/HTTPArchive/custom-metrics/pull/191 robots.txt parser change → https://github.com/google/robotstxt/commit/4af32e54b715442bb04cd0470e99192f0ffb9792#commitcomment-178586774 Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr108-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt   Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Gary Illyes

March 30, 202632 min

Are websites getting "fat"? Page weight, HTML size & Googlebot limits explained

In this episode of Search Off the Record, Gary and Martin dig into what "page size" and "page weight" actually mean for developers, users, and search engines. They discuss exploding web page sizes: median mobile homepages hit 2.3 MB in 2025 Web Almanac (up 3x from 2015), key insights for developers on page weight definitions, Googlebot's crawl limits, HTML bloat from structured data/images, and why size still hurts UX on slow connections despite faster networks. If you build or maintain websites, this conversation will help you rethink how much data your pages ship, where bloat really comes from, and why page weight still matters even as connections get faster. Resources: ​Web Almanac → https://almanac.httparchive.org/en/2025/ HTML living standard → https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/ How page speed helps with conversions →  https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/marketing-strategies/app-and-mobile/mobile-page-speed-data/  Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr106-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt  Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Gary Illyes

March 12, 202625 min

Google crawlers behind the scenes

Developers often talk about Googlebot as if it were a single program you could just run as "googlebot.exe", but that is not how Google's crawling actually works. In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin and Gary from the Search Relations team unpack how Google's crawling infrastructure is really built and operated.​ They cover why "Googlebot" is a misnomer and how it relates to a central crawling software-as-a-service used by many Google products​, how crawl behavior is controlled centrally to avoid overwhelming sites (throttling, handling 503s, and "don't break the internet" safeguards)​ and more! If you build for the web, work on SEO, or just want a more accurate mental model of how Google crawls pages, this behind‑the‑scenes discussion is for you. Resources: ​Crawlers → https://developer.google.com/crawling  Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr107-transcript  Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt   Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral  Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Gary Illyes

February 26, 202632 min

How Browsers Really Parse HTML (and What That Means for SEO)

Martin and Gary unpack how HTML parsing really works, why the HTML standard is so lenient, and how messy markup can silently break key SEO signals like hreflang and rel=canonical. They revisit validators and cross‑browser hacks from the Netscape/IE days, and discuss whether semantic HTML and strict validity truly matter for search. You'll also hear when link hints like preload, prefetch, and DNS prefetch help performance (and indirectly SEO), and where meta and link tags really belong. ​ Resources: HTML Living Standard → https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr105-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt  Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Gary Illyes

February 12, 202628 min

Do You Still Need a Website in 2026?

In this episode of Search Off the Record, Martin and Gary from the Google Search Relations team tackle a deceptively simple question: do you still need a website in 2026? Starting from the recurring industry claim that "the web is dead," they explore how the web has evolved through the rise of apps, AI chatbots, and social platforms, and why the answer almost always ends up being "it depends." Tune in for an engaging discussion on how websites remain relevant and what it means for content creation and discovery. Episode transcript → https://goo.gle/sotr103-transcript Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt  Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral   Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team.  #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch Speakers: Martin Splitt, Gary Illyes

February 3, 202627 min

Crawling Challenges: What the 2025 Year-End Report Tells Us.

​Join Martin and Gary as they dive into Search Off the Record's Episode 103, unpacking the 2025 Year-End report on crawling issues. Discover fascinating insights on faceted navigation, action parameters, irrelevant parameters and more, highlighting the biggest challenges faced by web crawlers last year. With humor and expert analysis, this episode reveals critical takeaways for webmasters and SEO professionals. Don't miss valuable tips to enhance your site's crawl efficiency! ​ Resources: URL structure best practices for Google Search → https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-indexing/url-structure   Crawling December: Faceted navigation → https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2024/12/crawling-december-faceted-nav   Xkcd (programmer humor) → https://xkcd.com/327/

January 8, 2026Episode 10226 min

SEO, AIO, GEO, your site, & third-party support to optimize for LLMs

In this episode, John Mueller and Danny Sullivan continue their conversation about the changing landscape of Search. They discuss the practicalities of hiring an SEO professional in the age of AI: Do you really need one? How do you evaluate them? Danny also shares his thoughts on third-party SEO tools, "domain scores," and why creators shouldn't rush to break their content into "bite-sized chunks" just to please Large Language Models (LLMs). Listen to more Search Off the Record → https://goo.gle/sotr-yt  Subscribe to Google Search Channel → https://goo.gle/SearchCentral Search Off the Record is a podcast series that takes you behind the scenes of Google Search with the Search Relations team. #SOTRpodcast #SEO #GoogleSearch

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