ReFi Generation

Hosted by Cash Upton

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Jul 2025

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About the show

ReFi Generation explores the new frontier of regenerative finance and the community mindset that gives local actions a global reach. We talk to experts and leaders in the field while examining how the ingenuity of ReFi can help bring environmental and humanitarian efforts into the next generation.

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July 26, 2025Episode 2439 min

Ep. 24 The Current: Local Currency with Chris Hewitt

Greetings and welcome back to ReFi Generation! Thank you listeners for your patience, after I got married last year, I took a break for a bit. Have no fear, we are back at it and will be releasing episodes regularly again!Today we talk local currency with Chris Hewitt, founder of Hudson Valley Current.We discuss the nuanced topic of money, and why local currencies matter. If you live in the United States, or a country with a fairly stable monetary policy, it may not matter much to you. However, there are a lot of folks who do not have access to a stable form of money. Many see inflation destroying their savings, as well as monetary policies affecting their lives in which they have no control over. Our hope is that today’s episode will give you some context for the important reasons for having a localized, community focussed money. It is important to note, local currencies do not have to replace the standard currency, they can be complimentary. Our guest Chris has a background in publishing - starting in 1996 he ran “Express Magazine: Social networking for global change,” and shipped to over 22 states and 5 Canadian provinces.Chris started the local currency, “The Current” because of his need to account for his barter agreements with local businesses advertising in “Express Magazine.” He shares how The Current developed over the years, it’s successes, as well as the hurdles he faced in the adoption of The Current.Chris and I have a fun philosophical conversation around “What is money.” Chris brings a lot of insight into how to launch local currencies, specifically how to educate and open a dialogue about what is money. “It’s just money” is their slogan. Our listeners should note, to be considered “money,” there are 3 widely agreed upon criteria it should have. First is a medium of exchange, second is a store of Value, and the third is that it is a unit of account. The Current meets all three of these criteria.Chris had a great insight and he stopped trying to teach people about money, and instead Chris builds mechanisms where people can learn by doing. Now, when people ask what is the Current, he does not try to explain what money is, he instead describes the features of the local currency.#1. The hyper-local aspect of the Current allows people to trust each other.#2 It shifts the narrative around money.#3 It is innovative.#4 it saves people money. Chris is a big advocate for regenerative economies, specifically cradle to grave and circular economy principles. Their non-profit, Tilda’s kitchen,is also a market, so they can have direct control over localized supply chains.Chris tells us about his experience leading a workshop in Belgium at the Collaborative Finance conference. He shares with us how they covered hybridized local currency models, the commons, and ways to explain local currency.I love the work that Chris is doing in the Hudson River Valley, he was a real joy to talk with. I hope you enjoy.Episode LinksHudson Valley CurrentHudson Valley Current InstagramHudson Valley Current TwitterTilda's KitchenMidtown Lively

December 23, 2024Episode 2343 min

Ep. 23 RECs & Blockchain Tech with Nathalie Capati of Jasmine Energy

Today we get REC’d, and explore the innovative way Jasmine Energy is pairing the renewable energy credit market, aka RECs, with blockchain technology.Nathalie brings a wealth of knowledge around the renewable energy space and is an excellent bridge between the traditional and the cutting edge. With her electrical engineer degree she has a broad set of skills, from working in energy compliance markets, installing solar & storage for Bitcoin mining operations, to building electric race car engines for Formula 1.Nathalie’s systems engineering mindset enables her to take complex systems and synthesize them down to understandable concepts. She walks us through the nuanced ecosystem of renewable energy credits and how they represent the clean energy attributes of renewable electricity, as opposed to the physical energy itself. These energy attributes are important because they help us to know how clean grid energy actually is and holds us accountable to sustainability goals.Jasmine Energy is a REC tracking app and marketplace for bridging renewable energy credits into non fungible tokens on a blockchain. Why blockchain you may ask? The short answer is allowing for liquidity and accountability. RECs are often a secondary revenue stream for solar developers and financiers, and are important for helping renewable energy generators hedge against the fluctuating prices of spot market electricity. In addition, the traditional over the counter REC market is mostly all voice brokered, often using excel spreadsheets for tracking. REC brokers take a 10-20% fee, which takes away from the profit of renewable energy generators. By putting RECs onto a blockchain, it can more easily be validated when beneficiary claims are retired, reduce the aforementioned broker fees with less friction across a multitude of currencies, and protect against double counting and fraudulent credits. In this era of environmental catastrophe, we cannot rely on humans using excel spreadsheets to solve the climate crisis. By using Jasmine Energy, we can ensure energy usage is verifiably green. I hope you enjoy.Show links:Jasmine Energy WebsiteJasmine Energy AppNathalie's TwitterRE+US Green Building Council - California

August 6, 2024Episode 2244 min

Ep. 22 Transforming the Carbon Market with Jeremy Epstein of Open Forest Protocol

Today we go into the forest with Jeremy Epstein, head of growth for Open Forrest Protocol. To put it simply, Open Forrest Protocol is a registry and issuer of carbon credits. Jeremy has a background as a lawyer and gives an inspiring take on how blockchain technology is applicable for solving the climate crisis, biodiversity crisis, really any sort of any of the ecological crises we face.Jeremy reminds us, “You can’t manage what you can’t measure,” and since we live in a capitalist economy, market based solutions will have the most potential for success. Jeremy wrote his graduate thesis on the European Union’s emission trading scheme and is highly knowledgeable on the carbon markets. Jeremy gives a thorough explanation of why putting carbon credits on chain is a practical idea. One example is how low quality carbon offsets on the market will encourage other assets to be of better quality and also discourage bad actors to not fudge and lie about their offsets, since it will be public, drastically diminishing the rampant green washing we see today.We look at forward facing impact verifications that Open Forrest Protocol could be used for in the future. Essentially anything that requires MRV - Measure, Report, Verification. One example Jeremy discusses is how if there is a claim for regenerative beef, how is the producer proving that the beef production actually sequestered carbon and regenerated the land? Blockchain and MRV methodology is the tool to provide certainty that regeneration happened. Just like how proof of reserve is necessary for the gold standard, proof of regeneration is also necessary. Jeremy shares how fundamentally we need to enhance trust behind regenerative claims, so people can confidently move their capital into regenerative finance systems.Open Forest Protocol WebsiteOpen Forest Protocol "Atlas"Open Forest Protocol TwitterJeremy's Twitter

July 22, 2024Episode 2143 min

Ep. 21 Carbon Markets & Blockchain with Marcus Aurelius from Klima DAO

Welcome back from our summer break! Marcus Aurelius from Klima DAO joins us to discuss how blockchain technology can revolutionize the carbon offset market. Marcus has a background in data science and data engineering and is passionate about leveraging data to solve problems and make better decisions. Marcus sets the stage for us by sharing how nearly 2 trillion tons of CO2 have been emitted since the industrial revolution, yet the carbon markets to date have yielded only 2 billion CO2 credits, with only about half being retired. This is a huge mismatch, especially with an estimated 40 billions tons of CO2 being emitted yearly.Klima is an exciting protocol for bridging carbon offsets onto the blockchain. You might ask why this is necessary? By bridging carbon offsets on-chain, Klima brings an unprecedented level of transparency and auditability to the carbon offset market. Klima is mostly focussed on the demand side of the carbon market, but we also learn about some of the carbon projects that Klima is supporting on the supply side who are using dMRV, digital measure report verification. This drastically reduces the cost of verifying ecological data claims, thus further democratizing the ability for smaller scale regenerative actors to enter the market.Marcus is skeptical of the top-down approach, especially in the time frame needed to solve the environmental crisis. We discuss the key players in the carbon offset markets. From buyers to suppliers, Marcus shares nuanced insights on how this traditionally opaque carbon market is in dire need of improvement. In comes Regenerative Finance - bringing greater access to carbon markets with lower barriers to entry, allowing for greater liquidity, better on ramping rails for purchasing offsets, along with reducing green washing because the authenticity of impact claims can be verified and trusted.We learn how AMM’s (Automated market makers) or decentralized exchanges, are the key innovation in decentralized finance because they allow for the creation of an asset with complex underlying behavior, unlocking the ability to create liquid assets out of previously illiquid assets. Klima is looking to address the “Carbon tunnel vision problem” to move beyond just the carbon market and we learn of some of the exciting forward financing projects Klima is taking on. The beauty of ReFi is that some of these projects are cutting edge and would be traditionally hard to fund with the more conventional due diligence process of a philanthropy, but because KLIMA is a DAO, the public who holds the KLIMA token is able to vote and make decisions on where climate financing is invested.Klima TwitterMarcus' TwitterKlima's Carbon DashboardKlima AppOffset your emissions with Carbonmark

June 10, 2024Episode 2050 min

Ep. 20 Community Currencies for Economic Regeneration with Scott Morris

In today’s episode we talk with Scott Morris, AKA the Token Jedi. Scott graduated from college with an interdisciplinary degree in political economics amidst the great financial crisis of 2008. What followed is a captivating story of Scott researching and implementing place-based initiatives, because as he puts it, “Place-based organizing in real communities, changing patterns, with real people, will create real outcomes and real value.Scott is a seasoned veteran when it comes to community currency and I particularly loved this conversation because it is both philosophical and nuanced. We dig deep into what is actually within our means to protect the “main street economy.” To Scott, ReFi can steer us away from a shearing economy towards a sharing economy by making use of new capabilities that allow us to re-localize and re-circulatize our economies. These new capabilities allow for greater monetary pluralism and economic diversity, allowing for back-up systems and safety nets. We discuss why Bitcoin is important to the world, but also how Scott sees the commodity aspect of Bitcoin being a tool of wealth preservation, whereas the folks who do not necessarily benefit from this are those people living on less than a dollar per day. Scott poses the question of what are certain instruments and strategies to bring people up from the bottom and helps us imagine what benefits a community could reap by using local currencies. We get an update on what the ReFi DAO is up to, and discuss the ReFi DAO local node incubator: Alert! There is a local ReFi chapter coming your way! Go get involved locally!Scott truly cares about making place-based systems for economic regeneration happen. I left this conversation inspired, I hope you enjoy it.The Token Jedi's TwitterReFiDAO.comReFi DAO Local Communities

May 21, 2024Episode 1929 min

Ep. 19 Financing Impact with Maex Ament of WithEarth.xyz

In today’s episode we talk with Maex Ament of WithEarth.xyz & Centrifuge. Having vast experience leveraging technology to fundraise and create positive impact, Maex is a bridge between web3 and the climate space. Centrifuge tokenizes real world assets and puts them on the blockchain. Some examples are invoices, music royalties, mortgages, consumer debt, and all the way into carbon credits and carbon forwards. Maex gives a thorough and nuanced explanation of what tokenization of real world assets can allow for. One such example is democratizing the access to liquidity.Maex shares his thoughts on how the immutability of smart contracts on the blockchain allows developers to build on a stack that is both philosophically and technologically “unstoppable.”We discuss the real world asset summit in NYC this fall, as well as real world asset summits happening in Dubai and at ETH CC. We finish the conversation with Maex giving some thoughtful feedback on how the ReFi space can evolve in order to “green pill” institutional players and governments. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Maex, I hope you do too.WithEarth.xyzMaex's TwitterCentrifuge.ioCentrifuge's Twitter

May 9, 2024Episode 1844 min

Ep. 18 Sovereign Nature Initiative: Funding Conservation & Biodiversity

In today’s episode we talk with Alessandro Mazzi from Sovereign Nature Initiative. Ale was a joy to talk with and is a wealth of knowledge. He is getting his PHD researching the influence of law on the capacity of human and wildlife to coexist. Sovereign Nature Initiative works in biodiversity conservation and is sitting in the middle between philanthropic giving & conservation projects. Sovereign Nature Initiative helps to raise funds and do impact reporting. By looking at nature positive solutions, aka conservation and restoration of natural ecosystems, they are creating other ways to value nature rather than the traditional extractive model.Ale discusses the benefits of using blockchain as a transparent accounting mechanism, thus helping to prove an environmental claim actually happens, and reduces green washing because it ensures accountability. Ale provides a fantastic look on how dMRV (digital or decentralized measure report & verification) allows for significantly reducing MRV costs - further democratizing the access to MRV tools and monetization mechanisms for regenerative land practices. By working with locals and the stewards themselves, emerging dMRV technology can further reduce the barrier to entry and allow smaller scale projects to participate.I especially loved Ale’s perspective on biodiversity credits, and how certain species can “activate the carbon cycle” by providing important ecosystem services. We discuss an exciting European Union development for a treaty on biodiversity mandates for corporations. Ale shares an inspiring project surrounding bison restoration in Romania, where children are leading the monitoring efforts of biodiversity. These youth then educate farmers about the importance of biodiversity. I was left inspired and enthused after talking to Ale, I hope you enjoy this episode.Sovereign Nature Initiative Linktr.eeSovereign Nature Initiative TwitterSovereign Nature Initiative WebsiteWWF European Bison Restoration

May 2, 2024Episode 1729 min

Ep. 17 Kingfishers Media Regenerating Knowledge

I love this episode with Will T. from Kingfishers Media LLC because Will is passionate about regenerative knowledge around community building initiatives. Kingfishers Media provides educational tools and resources for starting a business in Web3. They are a bridge to help onboard people and to make sure people have the knowledge needed to engage in the space in a positive way.Will seeks to democratize the access to knowledge and bridge the multilingual communication gap and has their learning content in Spanish, Portuguese, French, & Swahili.This episode gives a refreshing take on how web3 & blockchain technology is a bottom-up paradigm shift from what has historically been a top-down extractive model. Will believes this technology allows everyone to participate in something that is bigger than ourselves. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Will, I hope you do too.Kingfishers Media LLC WebsiteKingfishers Media LLC TwitterWill T's Twitter

April 15, 2024Episode 1640 min

Ep. 16 Public Goods Funding with QZ from Clr.fund

In today’s episode, QZ gives us a refreshing look at the ETH London conference, what the blockchain space is like in Singapore, and the quadratic funding mechanism of Clr.fund Clr.fund has a permissionless quadratic funding tool, primarily focussed now on retroactive public goods funding, QZ discusses how it can also be leveraged to fund what specific communities want. This allows for a more forward looking funding tool that can be iterated on when a communities’ goals and needs change.QZ talks about the nuances of grant funding, and how by nature grants are not designed to be sustainable and perpetual, so how do you create a perpetual funding process for impact and nonprofit work? Quadratic funding can be a tool to plug these gaps and democratize the grant funding process. I especially loved a question QZ posed, "who are the agents that are playing the game, and what are they optimizing for." Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to optimize for profit, thus we have a linear extractive economic model that has gotten us to where we are now. QZ is a systems thinker, and got me noodling on a lot of profound mental models. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, I hope you do as well.QZ's TwitterEthereum Singapore Twitterclr.fund Twitterclr.fund Website

April 9, 202435 min

Ep. 15 Crypto Commons Association with Giulio Quarta

Today we dive into different economic models with Guilio Quarta from Crypto Commons association. Guilio, having a background in sociology, has been studying alternative practices of organizing and assigning value. This has caused Guilio to lean into the “Blockchain for good” space. What I especially resonated with was Guilio’s narrative agnostic approach, where his work seeks to be the narrative bridge that shows people they are doing things that are actually quite similar to each other, rather than strikingly different.Guilio discusses the concept of how a system is what it does practically, not what it says it does. One warning Guilio gives is of venture capital funding taking away from the good of all stakeholders, and how alternative forms of funding can ensure that all stakeholders such as the broader ReFi community, regen farms, everyday people etc have their needs met, rather than the needs of Venture Capital.Guilio could see a dystopian future of making the whole world a data ledger and then plugging in all the financial market activities and ecological values. Thus, he cautions the ReFi ecosystem, similar to Douglas Gayton’s from ReFi Generation Ep. 6, to ensure that what we are putting on the blockchain is further democratizing society and increasing inclusivity. We finished the conversation with a teaser on CoFi - aka Collaborative Finance. The meme of CoFi originated after ReFi - but is a method of accounting that traditional financial systems have historically been using. CoFi focuses more on using credit & trust based systems to improve the local & global economy and looks at Ways to optimize existing financial systems without using tokenomics. One thing to note: Post capitalism does NOT mean communism or socialism, but rather other ways of assigning value, Conscious capitalism, for example, can be thought of a post capitalist modality.Commons EconomyReFi BarcelonaCo-Fi