Law of Code

Hosted by Jacob Robinson

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200

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Oct 2026

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About the show

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology. Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

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60 recent

October 26, 20261 hr 2 min

Interview: Blockchains & the Bank Secrecy Act, with Rebecca Rettig, Omid Malekan and Michael Mosier

Can traditional financial institutions use permissionless blockchains without being offside of the Bank Secrecy Act? What happens if a bank unknowingly pays a fee to a sanctioned validator? By the end of this episode, you'll understand the history of the Bank Secrecy Act, how OFAC actually enforces sanctions and a new paper's nine-part framework for how banks can use public blockchains and stay compliant. You'll hear from the paper's three co-authors: Rebecca Rettig (Chief Operating Officer and Chief Legal Officer of Jito Labs, of counsel at Arktouros) Omid Malekan (adjunct professor at Columbia Business School) and Michael Mosier (co-founder of Arktouros and former acting director of FinCEN). This episode is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their global payments platform. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:24 Problems they see 5:39 The router principle 7:13 What permissionless systems get right 11:28 Lessons from the open internet 14:23 Credible neutrality 19:20 A brief history of the BSA 23:55 What OFAC enforcement looks for 26:16 Treasury, Iran and open networks 28:29 The SEC's innovation exemption 34:03 Compliance belongs at the app layer 37:04 "The government will never allow it" 39:39 The paper's nine-part framework 44:12 Network layer vs. transaction layer 46:28 The $50,000 canoe 48:02 Safety, soundness and final settlement 50:29 Why this matters for national security 51:27 Privacy 58:07 What this means for DeFi Thank you to Cahill Gordon & Reindel for sponsoring this podcast. Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center for supporting the podcast. The full paper is here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7343938. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

October 4, 202646 min

#211 - Is AI Distillation Illegal?

Anthropic calls some AI distillation illicit. But is distillation illegal? The answer may depend less on what you do with AI outputs than on how you accessed them. This episode is a deep dive into how courts might rule. We cover X v. Bright Data, what OpenAI's and Anthropic's terms say about who owns AI outputs, why Anthropic's own fair use arguments could be turned against it and what the labs will likely do next. Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their payments platform. You'll hear from the three Variant co-authors of one of the sharpest papers on the topic: Daniel Barabander, investment partner and chief legal officer at Variant Sabina Beleuz, deputy general counsel at Variant Elijah Fox, investor at Variant Read their article here: https://variant.fund/articles/license-distill-law-distillation-anthropic/. Timestamps: 0:00 What is distillation? 1:52 Intro 3:01 Why distillation matters 5:44 X v. Bright Data 7:50 Access vs. selling 10:40 Copyright preemption 11:25 Why X doesn't own your posts 13:49 From scraping to distillation 16:12 Who owns AI outputs? 19:38 Is all distillation illicit? 24:10 Anthropic's fair use problem 25:05 Bartz v. Anthropic 26:42 Predictions 28:41 Distilling the distillers 29:21 Selling services, not tokens 32:34 Antitrust 37:06 Tech moves exponentially, law sublinearly 40:47 Humans, AI and personhood 45:15 Final thoughts Thank you as well to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

September 22, 2026Episode 21047 min

#210 - Cyber Letters of Marque

Cybercrime costs Americans an estimated $200 billion a year, and AI is supercharging it. The U.S. government's newest response is one of the oldest tools in the Constitution, one Congress hasn't used since the War of 1812. This episode covers letters of marque and privateers: their role in the American Revolution, how prize courts and bonds kept privateers from becoming pirates, and the White House memo that trends toward implementing a modern version for cyberspace. Sponsors: This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their global payments platform. Sponsors also include: The law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel. Cahill is hosting Confluence 2026, its flagship emerging tech conference, in New York City on September 24, 2026. You can apply to attend here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026. Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast. Guests: Chris Perkins (President of Franklin Crypto at Franklin Templeton, Naval Academy graduate and Marine Corps veteran) Ari Redbord (Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs and former federal prosecutor) Michael Coates (CISO of the Solana Foundation and previously Twitter's first CISO) Camelia Lopez Shoemaker (Holland & Knight, former DOJ) Nelson Rosario (Rosario Tech Law) Timestamps: (0:00) The $200 billion problem (2:16) The Model T and the FBI (4:18) Pig butchering (7:03) History (7:50) The high seas and the internet (8:30) Marque vs. reprisal (11:35) American Revolution (14:08) Building a (private) navy (17:25) The Constitution (18:40) The Paris Declaration (20:34) Pirates or privateers? (22:12) The five-part system (22:40) Why government can't scale (23:30) The Fourth Amendment (25:26) Suspicious Activity Reports (28:23) Recent memorandum (30:40) The bond (32:34) The blockchain (33:49) Latest from U.S. gov't (34:56) The attribution problem (36:30) Who's involved today? (37:49) The Beacon Network (39:16) Pre-clearance and due process (41:10) Reporting cybercrime (44:26) International law This should be the internet's best explainer on letters of marque. You don't need to be a lawyer, historian or security expert to follow along. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

September 8, 2026Episode 2091 hr 59 min

#209 - Vaults

Vaults might be finance's next trillion-dollar opportunity. But what are they? How do they work? What regulation might apply? You'll hear from the creator of crypto vaults, Andre Cronje (Flying Tulip, Yearn), alongside builders Adrian Cachinero Vasiljevic (Steakhouse Financial) and Charles St. Louis (Ethereum Foundation). You'll also hear from SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and top lawyers Lewis Cohen (Cahill), Tuongvy Le (Veda Labs), Rodrigo Seira (Cooley) and Linda Jeng (Aave). Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude ( altitude.xyz/law ), a payments platform for the next generation. This should be the internet's best podcast on vaults. You don't need to be a lawyer, developer or finance expert to follow along. Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (4:27) What is a vault? (9:34) History of onchain vaults (11:55) The first vault, with Andre Cronje (21:05) The SEC's early interest (22:30) Investment contracts and Howey (31:28) Notes and Reves (37:10) The strategist (48:54) The curator (58:30) Investment company? (1:12:40) Investment adviser? (1:20:00) Separately managed accounts (1:30:30) Custody rules (1:55:43) What's next Thank you as well to the law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel for sponsoring this podcast. If you'd like to join Cahill's flagship emerging tech conference, Confluence, you can apply here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026 . Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast. Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice.

September 1, 202642 min

Interview: SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce on Reg Crypto

Commissioner Hester Peirce joins the podcast to discuss Regulation Crypto Assets, as well as secondary market trading, DePIN and vaults. If you haven't listened to the full Reg Crypto explainer, that's episode 208. This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:22 Secondary transactions 3:23 Promises and representations 5:05 Essential managerial efforts 8:27 Regulatory arbitrage 10:29 Form TR 16:59 Existing token projects and Form TR 18:27 Compliance costs 21:48 Secondary markets 24:12 DePIN 27:02 Vaults 35:31 Accredited investors 40:25 Tokens and equity Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. On Thursday, September 24, 2026, CahillNXT will host Confluence 2026, its flagship conference, in New York City. This year's theme, Leading the NXT Frontier, brings together regulators, institutional investors, founders, policymakers and industry leaders to examine digital assets, market structure, regulation and the emerging technologies transforming financial markets. To register your interest, email events@cahill.com . Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Commissioner Peirce's views are her own and do not necessarily represent those of the SEC or her fellow Commissioners. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

August 28, 202622 min

Interview: The GRANITE Act, explained by Preston Byrne

The GRANITE Act is a two-and-a-half-page bill designed to stop foreign governments from censoring Americans online. Preston Byrne, the Managing Partner at Byrne & Storm, has spent over a decade advising tech companies on free speech questions. His work was instrumental in the introduction of the GRANITE Act in the U.S. House of Representatives on August 27, 2026. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:10 How foreign governments censor Americans 3:34 The origins of sovereign immunity 6:40 197 demands, 4 refusals 8:58 Sovereign immunity in the courts 10:58 The GRANITE Act shield 12:37 The GRANITE Act sword 17:20 Where GRANITE stands in the states, House and Senate This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to understand why. Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. Preston's Blog Post: https://prestonbyrne.com/2026/08/28/rulligranite/ GRANITE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/10174/text?s=1&r=1&hl=granite Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

August 25, 2026Episode 2081 hr 28 min

#208 - Reg Crypto

What is Regulation Crypto Assets? An SEC-led rule proposal that allows projects to raise capital in the U.S. by selling tokens. That's the short answer. The long answer is this podcast. By the end of this episode, you'll understand why these rules were needed, what they say and what could still be tweaked before they become law. This episode is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn more about their financial operating system. You'll hear from leading lawyers, almost all of whom are cited in the footnotes of the SEC's own proposal: Lewis Cohen, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel Sarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi Digital Gabe Shapiro, co-founder and CEO of MetaLeX Rodrigo Seira, partner at Cooley Miles Jennings, general counsel at a16z crypto Andrew Hinkes, partner at Winston Taylor Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:17 How we got here 6:53 Solving two problems 10:21 Reg A, Reg CF and Reg D 12:10 Five subparts of Reg Crypto 14:12 Who will use these? 18:08 The Startup Exemption 19:35 Rule 103 disclosures 21:03 LBRY and silence 30:14 Secondary markets and Telegram 34:13 The Fundraising Exemption 42:21 Why Reg A and Reg CF failed 48:14 Rule 400: Exit 50:23 Third-party problems 57:34 Under-promising 1:02:08 Essential managerial efforts 1:12:09 The state of crypto 1:15:13 State law questions 1:20:37 What's next? Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

August 10, 20261 hr 13 min

Interview: OSC CEO Grant Vingoe on Crypto in Canada, Part II

Grant Vingoe is the CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission, Canada's largest securities regulator. Grant explains Canada's approach to crypto and why he sees a careful, incremental approach as a strength. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:55 From 30 years in New York to running the OSC 5:49 How the CSA and Canada's provincial regulators fit together 9:01 The crypto contract 12:34 Grant's first exposure to crypto 16:09 The gamification of financial markets and prediction markets 21:22 Making crypto safer for Canadians, from ETFs onward 26:30 Stablecoins 29:52 The Stablecoin Act and federal regulators 35:02 The $30,000 purchase limit 38:18 How industry can better engage regulators 45:02 Canada's brain drain question 50:34 Modernizing the regulation of public companies 54:17 Permissionless finance 1:01:13 Accredited investor rules Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

August 10, 2026Episode 2071 hr 0 min

#207 - Crypto in Canada

How does Canada regulate crypto? This podcast answers that in less than 60 minutes. You'll hear from Grant Vingoe, CEO of the OSC, Eric Richmond, CEO of Coinbase Canada, the Bank of Canada's Anne Butler, McCarthy's Lori Stein, Osler's Matt Burgoyne, Evan Thomas, Dr. Ryan Clements of the ASC and Blair Wiley of Wealthsimple. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠https://altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:42 Tax 4:53 AML Rules 8:06 Securities 12:00 Investment contracts 16:13 Quadriga's collapse 23:00 The Crypto Contract 34:29 World's first Bitcoin ETF 38:23 Stablecoins 46:47 Where Canada could play offense: DeFi, perps and tokenization 52:53 The speed problem Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: ⁠https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology⁠ Solana Policy Institute: ⁠https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/⁠ Hyperliquid Policy Center: ⁠https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/⁠ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

August 6, 202630 min

Interview: Legora's Kyle Poe on the Future of AI & Law Firms

Kyle Poe is a former BigLaw partner and currently VP of Legal Innovation and Strategy at Legora, a legal AI startup valued at $5.6 billion. Kyle explains why he sees a generational reordering happening in the legal profession, how firms are best institutionalizing partner knowledge as IP, and where the moat exists for lawyers as AI grows in ubiquity. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:56 The billable hour and the incentive problem inside firms 2:36 Institutionalizing partner knowledge as firm IP 4:02 Why partner buyouts are accelerating 5:56 Why AI is different from the internet and email 9:31 How top firms are operationalizing AI 12:35 Building innovation teams from the top down 14:37 More lawyers or fewer? The future of demand 19:20 Grinders, minders and finders 22:10 What lawyers should be asking about AI 25:13 Legora's moat Thank you to our other sponsors: Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.