Law of Code

Hosted by Jacob Robinson

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187

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Jun 2026

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About the show

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology. Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

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June 15, 2026Episode 20359 min

#203 - SEC Crypto Rulemaking

How do regulators actually write the rules for crypto? SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and Taylor Lindman, Chief Counsel of the SEC's Crypto Task Force, take us inside the process, recorded at the SEC offices in Washington, D.C.We cover CLARITY Act rulemaking, lessons from Dodd-Frank, principles-based regulation and navigating the risks of decentralized projects. If you want to understand how an agency like the SEC actually works, this episode is for you.Timestamps:0:00 Intro1:20 Commissioner Peirce's philosophy on capital markets5:04 Rulemaking at the SEC6:48 The SEC's divisions, explained8:27 How the Crypto Task Force is staffed10:37 Lessons from Dodd-Frank13:10 Legal artisans15:15 The Clarity Act deadlines18:55 Decentralized intermediaries20:56 Principles-based vs prescriptive regulation24:49 Tackling difficult crypto questions26:23 Leveraging AI for data review29:46 "Come in and register" under this SEC33:50 SEC & CFTC collaboration35:52 Re-engaging the crypto industry40:00 Crypto Task Force & the Clarity Act45:54 The SEC's non-crypto priorities48:41 Avoiding another regulation-by-enforcement era57:14 Thank you to Sam Enzer, Lewis Cohen and Cahill, plus a shoutout to Day One Law and Nick PullmanNewsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠: https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here: https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

June 1, 2026Episode 2022 hr 13 min

#202 - Perps

Over a trillion dollars worth of perps are traded every month, yet 99% people have never heard of them. Fewer understand how they work.This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on perps, starting from the history of grain futures in Chicago to a historic CFTC announcement on Friday, May 29, 2026.My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on perps.In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of perps: Hyperliquid Policy Center CEO Jake Chervinsky and policy counsel Brad Bourque BrettHarrison, CEO of ArchitectKatherine Kirkpatrick Bos, general counsel of StarkWareRyne Miller, partner at Morrison FoersterMike Frisch, partner at Croke Fairchild David Shafer, lawyer at CoinbaseBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding perps, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.)Timestamps:0:00 Intro4:04 What is a perp? 7:18 Why futures contracts exist8:15 Liquidity fragmentation11:01 History of U.S. futures 17:08 Richard Nixon, the gold standard and financial futures 21:27 Birth of the CFTC24:27 Robert Shiller's 1992 paper30:09 Price convergence32:00 The funding rate 43:41 Oracles and manipulation risk47:39 Are perps swaps or futures? 52:44 A @ChairmanSelig clip on perps54:02 The DCM framework59:16 DCMs, DCOs and FCMs explained1:04:55 History of crypto perps (BitMEX, FTX)1:13:00 How Hyperliquid works 1:25:41 CFTC's historic announcements on May 29, 20261:35:00 Fireside with @jchervinsky and @BradBourque of @HyperliquidPC Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

May 18, 2026Episode 2011 hr 53 min

#201 - The CLARITY Act

What is the CLARITY Act? Maybe the most important piece of financial legislation in a generation. This podcast explains the history of U.S. digital asset regulation, why regulation-by-enforcement failed and what the CLARITY Act addresses, plus remaining steps for this to become law.Guests:Lewis Cohen, Partner & Co-Chair of CahillNXT's Digital Assets & Emerging Technology practiceMiles Jennings, Head of Policy & General Counsel for a16z cryptoSarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi VenturesKyle Bligen, Head of Policy and Public Affairs at the Decentralization Research CenterMiller Whitehouse-Levine, CEO at Solana Policy InstituteDugan Bliss, Head of Litigation at BinanceBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the 99th percentile for understanding CLARITY, regardless of whether you're a lawyer, builder or operator. Timestamps:0:00 Intro4:46 Explaining market structure6:05 Regulatory distortion10:43 Predecessor bills13:35 Senate Banking markup takeaways 15:46 SEC & CFTC20:37 The Securities Act of 193323:07 The Howey Test25:26 The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law 28:51 SEC enforcement32:32 Why SEC rulemaking isn't enough37:36 Titles of CLARITY40:00 Digital commodities47:29 Investment contract principles 54:10 Promoters: originators58:18 Promoters: related persons 1:04:13 Token taxonomy 1:11:02 Ancillary asset requirements1:19:34 The certification process 1:28:32 Remaining hurdles for CLARITY1:34:50 Stablecoin yield1:38:45 Ethics 1:45:50 Tax consequences 1:48:54 Thanking people working on the bill, such as @SenLummis, @gillibrandny, @SenatorTimScott, @SenatorHagerty, @SenThomTillis, @MarkWarner, @SenRubenGallego, @Sen_Alsobrooks, their staffs & many, many others.Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

May 4, 2026Episode 2001 hr 49 min

#200 - Money Transmission & Developer Liability

Can the U.S. government send a software developer to prison for writing and publishing code? That's the question at the center of the Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet prosecutions, and every crypto founder, builder and investor should understand the answer.This deep-dive episode walks through the history of U.S. money transmission law, how the DOJ is applying it to non-custodial software developers, what the Roman Storm verdict actually means, and what new legislation could change in 2026.Guests:Peter Van Valkenburgh — Executive Director, Coin CenterAmanda Tuminelli — Chief Executive Officer, DeFi Education FundBrian Klein — Partner at Cooley, lead defense attorney for Roman StormJake Chervinsky — Hyperliquid Policy Center (cameo)This is the most comprehensive podcast I've ever done. Welcome to Law of Code, Season 2.Timestamps:0:00 Intro3:18 What's at stake?4:40 Which developers are at risk6:03 Custodial vs. non-custodial9:32 What is a money transmission license?9:47 Steamships, the telegraph & Western Union12:14 The Bank Secrecy Act13:38 Section 196015:26 The Patriot Act19:39 FinCEN's 2013 and 2019 guidance24:42 OFAC sanctions Tornado Cash 27:30 How Tornado Cash works 30:48 Coin Center v. Yellen 32:24 DOJ indicts Roman Storm, Roman Semenov, Roman Sterlingov & Samourai Wallet developers35:15 The Van Loon win 40:33 Developer losses43:48 Bad facts make bad law48:46 Brian Klein on Roman Storm's case 50:50 The Brady letter57:00 Michael Lewellen sues for answers1:09:24 The Blanche memo1:18:46 The Galeotti speech1:26:13 Catch-22 for developers 1:30:03 The chilling effect on U.S. innovation1:33:48 Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act 1:38:03 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act1:45:28 What's nextNothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

April 20, 2026Episode 18641 min

#186 - AI & Legal Privilege

Does attorney-client privilege exist when you use ChatGPT or Claude? Should it?Jacob Robinson sits down with Mike Katz, Partner at Manatt Phelps & Phillips, to examine whether attorney-client privilege, work product or any analogous protection applies when people ask AI chatbots legal questions. Timestamps:➡️ 0:00 — Background➡️ 1:47 — What is attorney-client privilege?➡️ 2:44 — Policy reasons for narrowing privilege➡️ 3:30 — The Upjohn case (1981)➡️ 4:34 — Privilege vs. work product doctrine➡️ 5:17 — Three elements to establish privilege➡️ 7:23 — Consumer AI terms of service and confidentiality➡️ 8:09 — How you lose privilege➡️ 11:30 — War stories➡️ 15:39 — Vibe lawyering➡️ 19:09 — Could Anthropic, OpenAI be liable?➡️ 22:48 — The Heppner case (2026)➡️ 26:26 — The Kovel doctrine (1961)➡️ 28:14 — Incognito mode & deleted chats➡️ 30:59 — The policy question➡️ 34:00 — This is not a new problem➡️ 37:05 — Are lawyers coal or horses? Jevons ParadoxSponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact.Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠Click here⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

April 13, 2026Episode 18543 min

#185 - When Circle must freeze USDC (and when they probably should) with Austin Campbell

When does U.S. law require Circle to freeze USDC? It's a question many are asking after a series of wallets were frozen in connection to a sealed civil case, and again after Solana's Drift Protocol was drained of $285 million.Jacob Robinson is joined by Austin Campbell, founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, for a masterclass on the legal framework governing stablecoin freezes.Timestamps:➡️ 0:00 — Intro➡️ 2:00 — The March 2026 freeze of 16 wallets tied to a sealed civil case➡️ 4:31 — How bank freezes actually work➡️ 7:27 — Circle's legal obligation to freeze➡️ 9:40 — Does Circle's terms of service even apply to secondary holders?➡️ 11:24 — The privity problem➡️ 13:20 — The five-piece legal framework that functions like a safe harbor for institutions freezing assets➡️ 16:43 — DeFi's second-order exposure to asset freezes➡️ 18:29 — Can DeFi adapt?➡️ 21:03 — Circle's response to the Drift exploit➡️ 22:34 — DeFi and the legal system➡️ 24:27 — Bitcoin as the ideologically consistent alternative➡️ 28:18 — Why people want intermediaries with liability➡️ 31:04 — The Drift exploit: why Circle should have frozen USDC➡️ 36:34 — The exploit difficulty➡️ 38:27 — Real world assets on chain: the DeFi trilemmaSponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact.Resources:📓 Circle's April 10, 2026 statement on the Drift exploit and USDC freeze authority by Dante Disparte📓 ZachXBT's X thread on Circle's USDC freeze historyAlso: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠. https://lawofcode.beehiiv.com/Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

April 7, 2026Episode 18427 min

#184 - Transaction Denied: Rainey Reitman on Financial Censorship

What are the risks of allowing financial institutions to cut off access to the economy for lawful but controversial activity?Rainey Reitman is a civil liberties advocate and the author of Transaction Denied, a comprehensive investigation into debanking, financial censorship, and the growing role of financial institutions in regulating speech. She previously worked at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and co-founded the Freedom of the Press Foundation.Timestamps: ➡️ 1:20 — Why cash functions as a civil liberty (privacy + censorship resistance)➡️ 3:21 — What inspired Transaction Denied and early experiences with debanking➡️ 5:20 — The Chelsea Manning Support Network PayPal freeze➡️ 8:27 — Operation Chokepoint and the rise of financial censorship➡️ 11:25 — “Banking while Muslim” and over-compliance with sanctions➡️ 15:08 — The Patriot Act and incentives for financial surveillance➡️ 17:12 — Financial intermediaries and the power to block transactions➡️ 17:48 — Bitcoin, custodians, and whether crypto solves debanking➡️ 19:33 — Why financial censorship affects everyone—not just targeted groups➡️ 21:58 — NRA v. Vullo and the limits of government pressure on banksSponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contactResources: 📚 Pre-order Transaction Denied📖 The Patriot Act 👩‍⚖️ Supreme Court decision in National Rifle Association v. VulloDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

April 6, 2026Episode 18339 min

#183 - A founder's playbook for new SEC crypto guidance

What should crypto founders know about the SEC and CFTC's joint interpretive guidance on securities law?Joining to discuss is Joe Doll (@Sh0edog), Counsel at Day One Law and previously General Counsel at a crypto startup. Joe wrote a detailed breakdown of the guidance aimed at founders, which we walk through from start to finish. Timestamps:➡️ 0:00 — Intro➡️ 0:07 — Why the Howey Test exists➡️ 3:11 — Why tokens are not necessarily securities➡️ 7:47 — The five-category token taxonomy explained➡️ 8:45 — Digital commodities➡️ 12:13 — The four-factor "statement" test ➡️ 15:57 — Why the guidance might chill disclosure➡️ 19:32 — Joe's proposal for a minimum attachment period➡️ 23:30 — Fungibility and the token sales problem➡️ 28:29 — Decentralization, disclosure obligations, and the CLARITY Act➡️ 29:41 — Why the attachment theory better serves the policy goals of securities law➡️ 31:51 — Airdrops➡️ 37:53 — The CLARITY Act's control framework➡️ 38:58 — Linux, Red Hat, and the case for immutability➡️ 43:12 — Equity versus token value➡️ 43:25 — The story behind the handle @sh0edog ➡️ 45:04 — Decentralized communitiesResources:📓 Joe Doll's article breaking down the SEC and CFTC interpretive guidance for founders📓 SEC and CFTC joint interpretive release on the application of securities laws to crypto assetsDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship. Obviously.

March 30, 202649 min

#182 - Lewis Cohen explains new SEC & CFTC token guidance

When does transacting in a crypto asset become a securities transaction? The SEC and CFTC recently issued an interpretation clarifying how the federal securities laws apply to certain crypto assets and transactions involving crypto assets.Joining to discuss that is Lewis Cohen, co-chair of Cahill’s digital assets and emerging technologies practice and one of the leading experts on the application of U.S. securities laws to crypto. Timestamps: ➡️ 2:26 — Why a token can be a non-security asset, but still sold in a securities transaction➡️ 4:21 — The SEC’s “attachment and separation” concept explained➡️ 7:22 — Secondary market transactions and the limits of existing case law➡️ 11:15 — Why third parties may be exposed to securities law risk➡️ 14:09 — Who counts as an “issuer” in crypto—and why the concept breaks down➡️ 17:56 — What qualifies as a promise or representation under Howey➡️ 23:27 — Why disclosure—not classification—is the real solution➡️ 25:46 — Can an investment contract “detach” once promises are fulfilled?➡️ 30:19 — Civil liability, enforcement risk, and second-order market effects➡️ 34:42 — The danger of bifurcated markets and uneven information accessSponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contactResources: 📓 SEC’s interpretive release on the application of security laws to crypto assets and transactions✍️ Lewis Cohen's client alert on the recent guidanceDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

March 23, 202642 min

#181 - Fixing crypto's banking bottleneck with Aaron Brogan

Can new “payment accounts” with the federal reserve solve the crypto industry’s banking problem?Aaron Brogan is the founder and managing partner of Brogan Law, where he advises crypto companies on regulatory strategy, transactions, and policy. He also works with industry groups like the Blockchain Association on comment letters and rulemaking related to crypto banking access and financial regulation.Timestamps:➡️ 1:22 — What a Federal Reserve master account is and why crypto firms want one➡️ 6:34 — “Skinny” payment accounts: what they include—and what they leave out➡️ 7:16 — The core flaw: no interest, no overdraft protection, and balance constraints➡️ 10:52 — Why incremental policy wins matter in Washington➡️ 12:16 — How agency posture—not law—has shifted dramatically since 2024➡️ 13:09 — Advising clients amid uncertainty: baseline law vs. regulatory signals➡️ 16:11 — Why now may be the best time to take regulatory risk in crypto➡️ 16:44 — The biggest risk: a political shift triggered by a “black swan” event➡️ 18:36 — Onshoring vs. offshore structures: why many crypto projects still leave the U.S.➡️ 21:53 — Prediction markets, state vs. federal power, and a likely Supreme Court fightSponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📃 Aaron’s newsletter on so-called “skinny” master accounts, with a discussion of his comment letter on behalf of the Blockchain Association📖 The Federal Reserve's RFI on Reserve Bank Payment Accounts✉️ “Brogan Law is Built for War” newsletter by AaronDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.