Bao Podcast

Hosted by Bao Living

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Latest episode

Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

Every month, we invite a guest on the Bao Podcast who's active in the construction industry. With our guests, we discuss the latest evolutions and the future of this interesting industry. Want to learn more about Bao Living? Visit https://en.baoliving.com/

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45 recent

June 22, 202653 min

#44: Daan Grasveld (The Urban Jungle Project)

In this episode, we sit down with the co-founder and CEO of Urban Jungle Project, a company rethinking how nature can live inside our cities, from green rooftops and living facades to forgotten urban spaces turned into climate-proof ecosystems.We talk about urban heat, biodiversity, 3D-printed jungle blocks, smart plant monitoring, and why the cities of tomorrow may need to look a lot less grey.Let’s dive in.Shownotes:The Urban Jungle Project (https://www.theurbanjungleproject.com/en/) Daan Grasveld (https://www.linkedin.com/in/daangrasveld/)Sony Music Entertainment (https://www.sonymusic.com/) Picnic Supermarkets (https://jobs.picnic.app/en/about-picnic)Ebben Tree Nursery (https://www.ebben.nl/en/)Nos (https://nos.nl/)TU Delft (Delft University of Technology) (https://www.tudelft.nl/en/)Timestamps:00:11: Intro01:41: Dan’s professional background03:10: Spark for the project05:43: Pivot from energy to nature07:04: Global urbanization challenges08:35: Urban Heat Island effect12:12: Benefits of green roofing14:28: The business case for nature15:48: Launching the first pilot19:45: Founder and partnership dynamics21:54: Choosing heart over head26:55: Embracing generalist leadership29:37: Advantage of organic growth37:59: Modular and lightweight tech39:57: Sensors and maintenance care42:47: Overcoming growth constraints44:47: Measuring biodiversity and impact51:21: Future company vision52:18: Closing and contact info

January 28, 202645 min

#43: Tom Willemen (Willemen Groep)

Our guest is Tom Willemen, CEO of Willemen Groep, a leading Belgian construction powerhouse spanning infrastructure, real estate, and civil engineering. Under his leadership, the group has become a frontrunner in sustainability and digital transformation. As Chairman of Embuild, Tom is a vocal advocate for industrialising the sector and modernising the construction ecosystem. Today, we discuss the challenges and future of the industry.Show notes: Willemen Groep (https://www.willemen.be/en) Tom Willemen (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomwillemen/) BuildWise (https://www.buildwise.be/en/) BuildWise Vision Comittee publication on “Circularity” (https://www.buildwise.be/media/xmtbgbcw/bwi_visiedocument_circularity.pdf) BuildWise Vision Committee publication “Finance and Affordability of construction in 2031” (https://www.buildwise.be/media/apephizu/bwi-230201-visierapport_1i23-int.pdf) Time stamps:00:00 Intro01:50 Inside Willemen Groep: what “day-to-day” really looks like2:40 Challenges in the construction industry 5:06 Potential solutions and innovation10:07 Finding time to think in an industry that never stops11:11 The BuildWise vision committee12:23 Zooming in the Circularity report16:09 The Affordability report18:03 Leadership in construction21:13 Lessons and setbacks of Willemen Groep 24:48 Vision for the Future: 2040 31:40 The most difficult ecosystem part to redesign34:56 Tips and tricks to stay informed and keep learning38:30 Outro

October 29, 202555 min

#42: Joachim De Vos (Living Tomorrow)

In this episode we speak with Joachim De Vos, Co-chair and Managing Partner of Living Tomorrow, founder of TomorrowLab, and professor of scenario planning at Ghent University.Since the early 1990s, when the first House of the Future opened its doors, Joachim has helped organizations and policymakers prepare for what’s next through foresight, scenario planning, and innovation strategy.He is also the author of Why Innovation Fails, which examines the pitfalls of innovation and how companies can become “future fit.” The book features a deep dive into the Kodak case, developed with Steven Sasson, the inventor of the digital camera.We talk about the lessons of innovation success and failure, how to keep a strong vision alive inside complex organizations, and the future shifts Joachim believes will change how we live and work.Show notes: Living Tomorrow (https://www.livingtomorrow.com/nl/)TomorrowLab (https://www.tomorrowlab.com/)Joachim De Vos (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joachimdevos/?originalSubdomain=be)Frank Belien (https://www.linkedin.com/in/frank-belien-66a6b815/?originalSubdomain=be) Joachim De Vos - Why Innovation fails (https://www.lannoo.be/nl/why-innovation-fails-0) Evi Gruyaert - Waarom luisteren gelukkig maakt (https://www.pelckmansuitgevers.be/waarom-luisteren-gelukkig-maakt.html) Time stamps: 00:00 Intro03:35 Bill Gates at the opening of the house of the future9:00 About the first house of the future13:00 About the second house of the future14:45 About the current evolutions30:30 How does not being CEO anymore shift your focus? 39:30 What are good tools to better handle organizations?45:30 Thinking about the future is art48:00 Outro

September 11, 20251 hr 5 min

#41: Steven Van Passel (University of Antwerp)

In episode 41, we speak with Steven Van Passel, Professor in Environmental Economics and Vice-Rector for Valorisation and Sustainability at the University of Antwerp.Steven leads the EnvEcon group, a multidisciplinary research team focused on sustainability assessments in energy, food systems, and the circular economy. With a background in agricultural economics and years of experience advising climate and nitrogen panels, Steven offers a grounded, systems-level view on how to move from research to real-world impact.We talk about how to translate science into societal value, why systems thinking is essential, and what role technology should play in the sustainable transition of our built environment.Show notes:Steven Van Passel’s research + contact👉 https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/steven-vanpassel/ENV‑ECON Research Group👉 https://www.uantwerpen.be/en/research-groups/env-econ/Planetary Boundaries (Stockholm Resilience Centre)👉 https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.htmlProgramma Aanpak Stikstof (PAS) – Nederland👉 https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/natuur-en-biodiversiteit/stikstofIEA – Solar PV Market Report👉 https://www.iea.org/reports/solar-pvEllen MacArthur Foundation – Circular Economy & Plastics👉 https://ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/plasticsNature‑based Solutions (Oppla – EU-database)👉 https://oppla.eu/nature-based-solutionsGrand Hotel Europa – Ilja Leonard Pfeijffer👉 https://www.standaardboekhandel.be/p/grand-hotel-europa-9789029526227 Voorbij duurzaamheid – Op weg naar een ecorechtvaardige samenleving – Shivant Jhagroe👉 https://www.walburgpers.nl/nl/book/9789464564259/voorbij-duurzaamheidTimestamps:[00:00] Intro [02:00] How Steven became an environmental economist [03:03] What markets get wrong about sustainability [13:35] Nitrogen, farming, and the housing crisis [19:15] Trade-offs in climate policy and why timing matters [21:50] The real impact of solar panels and tech optimism [32:02] How oil prices affect recycling and circularity [32:55] Can Europe lead if others lag behind? [48:30] What gives Steven hope (and concern) [50:10] Why adaptation is no longer optional [55:50] Book tip & dream dinner guest [01:04] Outro

May 16, 202544 min

#40 Noor Huitema (Copper8)

For Episode 40 of the Bao Podcast, we welcome Noor Huitema-Hellemans, co-founder of Copper8, a consultancy helping organizations rethink value, governance, and collaboration.Based in Amsterdam, Copper8 challenges businesses to move beyond short-term profit and focus on long-term impact. Their work bridges research and practice, supporting clients in sectors like construction, finance, and manufacturing to drive systemic change.In this episode, we explore what it takes to lead a purpose-driven company, how to align financial and environmental value, and why true transformation starts with asking the right questions.Copper8 (https://www.copper8.com/)LinkedIn Noor Huitema-Hellemans (https://www.linkedin.com/in/noorhuitemahelleman/)Ellen MacArthur Foundation (https://ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/)Planetary Boundaries Documentary on Netflix (https://www.netflix.com/)CSRD - Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (https://finance.ec.europa.eu/capital-markets-union-and-financial-markets/company-reporting-and-auditing/company-reporting/corporate-sustainability-reporting_en)Mahatma Gandhi (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi)Time stamps:0:00 Intro1:55 Noor’s motivation for systemic change4:30 From traditional consultancy to founding Copper88:50 Choosing impact over growth: the 15-person team limit13:00 Bridging research and practice to accelerate change26:20 Circularity beyond materials: financial and environmental value34:10 The role of legislation and market awareness38:15 Who should reach out to Copper8?43:50 Outro

April 17, 2025Episode 391 hr 2 min

#39 Thomas Rau (RAU Architects, Turntoo & Madaster)

Episode 39 of the Bao Podcast is a special episode - first, because it’s the first podcast recorded at an external location. And second, because of our guest: a man who needs no introduction... but I’ll give him one anyway - Thomas Rau!As founder of RAU Architects, Turntoo and Madaster, Thomas is a visionary thinker who challenges the way we design, build, and use materials. His concept of material passports and circular construction is reshaping the industry, proving that buildings should be seen not just as structures but as resource banks for the future. His innovative approach has not gone unnoticed - he has received numerous awards, including the ARC13 Oeuvre Award, the Circular Economy Leadership Award, and the World Green Building Council Chairman’s Award. Get ready for an inspiring conversation about innovation, responsibility, and the architecture of tomorrow!RAU Architects (https://anewdawn.rau.eu/) Turntoo (https://turntoo.com/) Madaster (https://madaster.com/) Time stamps:0:00 Intro01:30 How Thomas started his career07:30 Stories about accidents and diseases and how it changed his vision and motivation17:30 Sustainability vs circularity21:30 Changing mindset is the only way to make an impact28:45 Conflict cost - change39:00 Advising to the king of Bhutan48:30 Material passports57:30 Outro

March 19, 2025Episode 381 hr 1 min

#38 Kostas Anastasiades & Ben Moins (University of Antwerp & B.CYCLE)

For episode 38 of the Bao Podcast, we welcome 2 people: Kostas Anastasiades & Ben Moins. Both are senior researchers at the faculty of Applied Engineering at the University of Antwerp.They are also linked to the service platform B.Cycle where Kostas serves as an expert on circularity and Ben is the program manager focussing on sustainability.Both of them are writing and doing a lot of research on circularity, recycling and waste management, sustainability assessment and much more.At Bao Living, all these issues are close to our hearts, and we also try to do our part to find solutions to these problems. So we’re very curious to hear more from their insights!Ben’s research + contact (https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/ben-moins_19251/) Kostas’ research + contact(https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/kostas-anastasiades/) Circular value institute (https://www.circularvalueinstitute.com/team) B.CYCLE (https://bcycle.be/)Constantine The Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great)Leonardo da Vinci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci) Time stamps:0:00 Intro1:30 Ben’s research9:30 Kostas’ research18:30: Implementation of research30:15: About B.CYCLE34:45 Are there historical practices in construction that we can learn from today?39:30 Price vs sustainability47:45 Where do we see the construction industry in a couple of years?51:25 What are the barriers of today’s society to increase circularity in construction?54:20 Outro

February 16, 2025Episode 3758 min

#37 Lieven Smeyers (pt.2) (Lito)

Lieven is the CEO of Lito and has already participated in the Bao Podcast almost 2 years ago, and is now back for part 2.He and his team managed to develop the ‘Litobox’: which contains every component you need for heating and cooling your house and for making domestic hot water. It combines a ventilation system that guarantees air quality, a rainwater purification system, the indoor components for a photovoltaic installation and an electrical switchboard with internet equipment. Optionally, a battery pack can be added as well.Thanks to off-site assembly and testing, your building process is enormously speeded up, as it can be installed, connected, and commissioned in a few hours.Show notes: Lito (https://lito.be/en/) Lito & Bao Living collaboration for ION (https://www.baoliving.com/projecten/moderne-nieuwbouw-appartementen-in-brussel) Time stamps: 0:00 Intro1:30 Three biggest milestones since previous episode21:15 Biggest challenges since previous episode32:25 Surprising/Inspiring customer feedback42:20 Lessons learned in entrepreneurship52:00 Outro

January 27, 2025Episode 361 hr 1 min

#36 Pieter-Jan Loyens (Encon)

For Episode 36 of the Bao Podcast, we introduce you to Pieter-Jan Loyens, the Managing Director of Encon. This is an agency, based in Bilzen, that supports businesses with creative and innovative solutions in their transition toward becoming more sustainable.They distinguish themselves through their unique combination of ecology and economy, linking environmental awareness with cost savings and profitability for their clients.In recent years, they have built a strong market position with this approach. One of their most remarkable projects might be their own headquarters in Bilzen, Infinity. It is considered one of the most sustainable office buildings in Europe. With several sustainability certificates as LEED and BREEAM, the design serves as a showcase for innovative technologies and sustainable architecture.Show notes:Encon (https://www.encon.eu/nl-BE) Pieter-Jan Loyens (https://be.linkedin.com/in/pieter-jan-loyens/en) Robin Bruninx (https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbruninx) Hasco Invest (https://hascoinvest.be/nl/home)Jean Jacques Velkeniers (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-jacques-velkeniers-1053b11/) BREEAM (https://breeam.com/)LEED (https://www.usgbc.org/leed/)Tectum Group (https://www.tectumgroup.be/) HNST Jeans (https://www.supergoods.be/blogs/supergoods-news/welkom-bij-supergoods-de-belgische-duurzame-jeans-van-hnst)Vario Food (https://variofood.be/)Upgrade Estate (https://upgrade-estate.be/)Wanaka Partners (https://wanakapartners.com/) Ellen MacArthur (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_MacArthur) Ignace van Doorselaere, ‘De essentie’ (https://4-f.be/publicaties/de-essentie)Daniel Kahneman, ‘Thinking Fast & Slow’ (https://www.bol.com/be/nl/f/thinking-fast-and-slow/9300000043254613/)Michael Lewis, ‘The Undoing Project’ (https://www.bol.com/be/nl/f/the-undoing-project/9200000065157549/) Time stamps:0:00 Intro2:00 Founding story of Encon10:30 Examples of how Encon are helping companies 19:30 Pieter-Jan’s key learnings throughout his career 26:15 Work of Encon in construction industry29:30 Sustainability certificates: how do you achieve them?34:30 Promising methodologies in construction38:30 Good business cases for big battery installations43:45 Cost of batteries dropping45:00 Circular frontrunners in Belgium48:10 Reach out to Pieter-Jan or Encon via the information in the show notes!49:00 Outro

November 12, 2024Episode 351 hr 0 min

#35 Anneleen Desmyter (Yally)

For episode 35 of the Bao Podcast, we invited Anneleen Desmyter, the CEO of Yally. This is an innovative company based in Antwerp that’s redefining property management with a future-focused approach.Yally’s mission centers around buying homes and transforming them into energy-efficient, tenant-friendly spaces. As a forward-thinking landlord, Yally prioritizes both comfort and affordability for tenants, using smart technology to cut down on energy costs and provide an all-inclusive service through their online platform, MijnYally.be.Yally (https://yally.be/) Quares (https://quares.be/nl/)The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/368593.The_4_Hour_Workweek) Time stamps: 0:00 Intro01:00 About Anneleen and Jally05:50 Opportunities they saw when founding Yally10:40 Meaning behind the name 13:15 Yally's activities and insights in the market55:00 Outro

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Bao Podcast

About the show

Listen to episodes

#44: Daan Grasveld (The Urban Jungle Project)

#43: Tom Willemen (Willemen Groep)

#42: Joachim De Vos (Living Tomorrow)

#41: Steven Van Passel (University of Antwerp)

#40 Noor Huitema (Copper8)

#39 Thomas Rau (RAU Architects, Turntoo & Madaster)

#38 Kostas Anastasiades & Ben Moins (University of Antwerp & B.CYCLE)

#37 Lieven Smeyers (pt.2) (Lito)

#36 Pieter-Jan Loyens (Encon)

#35 Anneleen Desmyter (Yally)

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