The Future of Leadership

Hosted by Zoe Routh

BusinessInterviews guests

Website RSS feed LinkedIn Facebook Instagram

Episodes

435

Latest episode

Nov 2026

Language

EN-AU

About the show

We explore the future and ask what this means for your leadership. We tackle the big issues, ask 'what if' and 'how might we'. We bring observations of trends and events around the world, talk to leading experts in their field about a topic on the future of leadership, give book recommendations, and offer tangible insights you can put into action right away.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

November 8, 202656 min

423: Power, Propaganda and Leadership: Lessons from Caesar and Augustus with Alistair Forrest

Historical fiction author Alistair Forrest joins Zoë Routh to explore how ambition, political alliances, and propaganda shaped leadership during the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of Augustus. Drawing on Julius Caesar's military campaigns, Octavian's rise to power, and the struggles of Sextus Pompey, they examine how leaders build influence, control public perception, and navigate political conflict. Zoë and Alistair discuss the human consequences of political decisions, challenging the traditional portrayal of Rome's military conquests as stories of glory and heroism. From Caesar's invasions of Britain and his use of propaganda to Augustus's strategic relationships with Agrippa and Maecenas, they uncover how reputation, loyalty, intelligence, and public support can determine who gains and maintains power. They also explore the difficulty of distinguishing good leaders from bad, particularly when history is written by the victors. Through the story of Sextus Pompey, they question how personal experiences, competing loyalties, and political narratives shape our understanding of leadership. Together, they consider what modern leaders can learn about ethical decision-making, accountability, and using power for the benefit of others. Discover Zoë Routh's Power Games: The Leader's Guide to Office Politics and Drama-Free Collaboration , and enter the weekly signed paperback giveaway. Enter the Giveaway HERE Key Quotes "It's not just about warfare. I wanted it to be about the results of warfare and the results of political decisions taken far away." - Alistair Forrest "It was good leadership, but reliant on support from his mates." - Alistair Forrest, on Augustus "So if you control the narrative, then you can control that tendency to flexibility, and get people on your side." - Alistair Forrest "If you control the narrative, you control the outcome." - Zoë Routh "One person's tyrant is another person's hero." - Zoë Routh "It's the consequences of when powerful people roll the dice and fight their battles." - Zoë Routh "It's not just who wins who should be considered the good guy." - Zoë Routh Questions Asked How can we distinguish good leaders from bad leaders when history is often written by the victors? What can Julius Caesar's military campaigns teach us about ambition, political power, and the human consequences of leadership decisions? How did Caesar use propaganda and storytelling to shape public perception and strengthen his political influence? What enabled Octavian to rise to power, and how did his relationships with Agrippa and Maecenas contribute to his success? How did intelligence networks, strategic communication, and control of the narrative influence political allegiances in Ancient Rome? What can modern leaders learn from Caesar, Augustus, and Sextus Pompey about reputation, ethical leadership, and using power responsibly? Take Action Look Beyond the Leadership Narrative: Question how reputations are built, whose perspectives are represented, and what information might be missing before judging a leader's decisions. Consider the Human Impact of Decisions: Learn from Caesar's military campaigns by examining how your leadership choices affect employees, communities, and those with little influence over the outcome. Build Strategic Relationships: Take inspiration from Augustus's partnerships with Agrippa and Maecenas. Surround yourself with trusted people whose expertise, judgment, and capabilities complement your own. Communicate with Integrity: Recognise the power of storytelling and public perception. Ensure your messaging reflects your values, actions, and genuine intentions rather than simply shaping a favourable narrative. Evaluate Leadership Beyond Success: Challenge the assumption that authority, popularity, or political victory automatically indicates good leadership. Consider how power was gained, exercised, and maintained. Align Values, Intentions and Actions: Apply Zoë's leadership criteria by reflecting on what you stand for, whether your actions match your intentions, and whether your decisions contribute to the greater good. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show and the Big Leadership Question: Good Guys or Bad Guys? 00:45 Planet Zoë: Western Australia Leadership Program and Updates 01:30 Power Games Signed Paperback Giveaway 03:00 Ancient Rome Novel Progress and Editing Update 03:41 Meet Alistair Forrest: Historical Fiction, Journalism and Ancient Rome 05:22 How Alistair Discovered Historical Fiction and His Fascination with Rome 07:38 The Battle of Munda: Caesar's Final Battle and the Inspiration for Alistair's First Novel 09:40 Telling Rome's History Through the Eyes of Ordinary People 12:24 The Human Consequences of War and Political Decisions 14:40 Rebuilding After Devastation: Hope, Freedom and Survival 17:28 Caesar's Invasions of Britain and Alistair's Historical Fiction Trilogy 21:54 Caesar's Motivations: Wealth, Greed and Political Ambition 23:10 The British Campaigns: Military Strategy, Resistance and Miscalculations 25:05 Caesar's Propaganda and the Construction of a Political Reputation 26:59 Octavian's Rise to Power: What Did He Understand About Leadership? 28:30 Augustus's Three Advantages: Caesar's Name, Agrippa and Maecenas 30:15 Winning Over the People: Popular Support and Political Legitimacy 32:57 Agrippa, Intelligence Networks and the Power of Information 33:58 Roman Letters, Caesar's Cipher and Military Communication 36:21 Propaganda, Political Allegiances and Controlling the Narrative 38:16 Good Guys or Bad Guys? How History Shapes Leadership Reputations 39:41 Sextus Pompey: A Villain, a Victim or a Leader Fighting for His Cause? 41:40 Controlling Rome's Grain Supply and the Conflict with Octavian 43:36 Agrippa's Naval Strategy and the Defeat of Sextus Pompey 44:45 Why Political Success Does Not Always Mean Good Leadership 46:16 Fast Three: Sacred Chickens, Aulus Hirtius and Roman Insults 50:54 Where to Find Alistair Forrest and His Historical Fiction Books 52:45 Final Leadership Reflections: Values, Intentions and the Greater Good 54:45 Power Games Giveaway Reminder and Next Episode Preview: Mark Antony

November 1, 202652 min

422: Influence Without Authority: Lessons on Power From Women of Ancient Rome with Kate J. Armstrong

Women's history podcaster and author Kate J. Armstrong joins Zoë to explore how women exercised power and influence in Ancient Rome, despite being excluded from formal political authority. Drawing on the stories of Livia, Fulvia, Servilia, and Cleopatra, Kate J. reveals how women navigated patriarchal systems through strategic relationships, political alliances, public influence, and personal ambition. Zoë and Kate J. discuss the different ways these remarkable women challenged or worked within the political structures of their time. From Livia's carefully cultivated public image to Fulvia's bold political and military actions, and Servilia's mastery of relationship-building, they uncover valuable lessons about influence, reputation, and leadership without formal authority. They also challenge the historical portrayal of Cleopatra, examining her political intelligence and the difficult circumstances she faced as Egypt's ruler. Together, they explore what modern leaders can learn about building influence, understanding power structures, and recognising the contributions of those working behind the scenes. Discover Zoë Routh's Power Games: The Leader's Guide to Office Politics and Drama-Free Collaboration, and enter the weekly paperback giveaway. Enter the Giveaway HERE Key Quotes "I think that was part of her power is that she projected a certain image that helped her to maintain influence and for the public to continue to love her." - Kate J. Armstrong, on Livia "So she was definitely more, like, if Livia was this like delicate chisel, I think Fulvia was a bit more of a hammer." - Kate J. Armstrong "I think she was the ultimate hostess." - Kate J. Armstrong, on Servilia "I think remembering that relationships matter: understanding the power of getting the right collection of people in a room and getting them talking." - Kate J. Armstrong "How can you influence without formal authority? Be cruious about others." - Zoë Routh Questions Asked How can leaders influence decisions and outcomes without holding formal authority? What inspired Kate J. Armstrong to explore women's history through The Exploresse podcast? How did Ancient Rome's patriarchal system shape women's opportunities for independence and influence? What legal privileges allowed Vestal Virgins and certain Roman women to exercise greater autonomy? How did women manage households, businesses, and financial responsibilities when the men in their families were absent? How did Hortensia successfully challenge taxation imposed on wealthy Roman women? How did Livia use public image, political relationships, and behind-the-scenes influence to maintain power alongside Augustus? What made Fulvia's approach to political power different from Livia's, and why did she face such strong opposition? How did Servilia build political influence through relationships, strategic gatherings, and her connections to Julius Caesar and the Senate? What can modern leaders learn from Roman women's approaches to relationship-building, listening, and navigating organisational power structures? How did Cleopatra use political alliances and strategic relationships to protect Egypt's independence? Why has Cleopatra's reputation focused so heavily on her relationships with Roman leaders rather than her political capabilities? How does examining women's history challenge traditional narratives about leadership, power, and influence? Take Action Recognise Influence Beyond Authority: Identify the people within your organisation who shape decisions through their expertise, relationships, and credibility, even without formal leadership titles. Build Strategic Relationships: Learn from Servilia's ability to bring influential people together. Invest in relationships across teams, departments, and different levels of authority. Understand Your Operating Environment: Consider how organisational structures, cultural expectations, and unwritten rules influence the opportunities available to you. Be Intentional About Your Reputation: Reflect on Livia's carefully cultivated public image and how consistency, credibility, and perception can strengthen long-term influence. Choose Your Approach to Power: Compare Livia's subtle influence with Fulvia's direct political action. Consider when diplomacy, persuasion, or public advocacy is most appropriate. Listen for What Is Happening Behind the Scenes: Pay attention to informal conversations, emerging concerns, and the relationships influencing important decisions. Challenge One-Dimensional Leadership Narratives: Look beyond reputation and popular accounts when evaluating historical and contemporary leaders. Consider whose perspectives are missing and how that shapes your understanding of their decisions. Use the Influence Available to You: Take inspiration from women who found opportunities within restrictive systems. Recognise the resources, relationships, and opportunities you can use to make a meaningful contribution. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:29 Weekly Leadership Question: Influencing Without Formal Authority 00:45 Planet Zoë: Western Australia and Ancient Rome Novel Update 01:53 Power Games Paperback Giveaway 02:41 Meet Kate J. Armstrong: The Exploresse and The Night Birds 03:55 Why Kate J. Armstrong Became Interested in Women's History 05:56 Creating The Exploresse: Bringing Women's Everyday History to Life 07:40 Women, Power and Influence in Ancient Rome 08:17 The Paterfamilias: Patriarchy, Marriage and Women's Legal Status 11:02 Vestal Virgins, Sui Juris and Women's Legal Autonomy 14:15 Women Managing Roman Households, Businesses and Finances 16:21 Hortensia's Public Protest Against Taxation 19:26 Livia's Soft Power, Public Image and Marriage to Augustus 25:03 Fulvia: Political Ambition and Challenging Roman Expectations 28:41 Fulvia's Political and Military Leadership Against Octavian 30:03 Proscriptions and Fulvia's Rise to Political Power 31:10 Fulvia's Downfall and Historical Reputation 32:04 Servilia's Behind-the-Scenes Political Influence 33:46 Servilia: Relationship-Building and the Power of Hosting 35:19 Leadership Lessons from Ancient Rome: Relationships, Reputation and Influence 39:39 Cleopatra Beyond the Myth: Political Intelligence and Strategic Alliances 45:39 Why Women's History Matters and the Stories History Overlooks 46:59 Fast Three: Roman Symbols, Agrippina and Ancient Curse Tablets 49:46 Where to Find Kate J. Armstrong and The Exploresse 50:43 Final Thoughts, Power Games Giveaway and Next Episode

October 26, 202651 min

421: The Hidden Rules of Power: Leadership Lessons from Ancient Rome with Fiona Forsyth

Historical fiction author Fiona Forsyth joins Zoë to explore how power, political ambition, and cultural context shaped leadership in Ancient Rome. Through the stories of Ovid, Cicero, Julius Caesar, and Augustus, Fiona reveals why some leaders reshaped political systems while others struggled to protect them. Zoë and Fiona discuss the role of military loyalty, strategic alliances, and hidden influence, including Servilia's remarkable ability to wield power without formal authority. They also uncover striking parallels between Roman politics and modern leadership, particularly the growing influence of wealthy individuals outside traditional power structures. Discover Zoë Routh's Power Games: The Leader's Guide to Office Politics and Drama-Free Collaboration , and enter the weekly paperback giveaway. Enter the Giveaway HERE Key Quotes "I think he was brilliant on building on what people before him had done, and he had the inestimable advantage of genuinely being related to Julius Caesar." - Fiona Forsyth "Augustus was very clever in that he always recruited the right people as well to go with him." - Fiona Forsyth "She is an observer, but she's also got an awful lot of behind-the-scenes power of her own." - Fiona Forsyth, on Servilia "How much does your cultural context constrain or liberate you as a leader?" - Zoë Routh Questions Asked How much does cultural context constrain or liberate leadership? Why was the Roman poet Ovid exiled by Augustus, and what does his story reveal about the risks of living close to power? How did military loyalty contribute to the downfall of the Roman Republic? What made Augustus more successful than Julius Caesar at consolidating and maintaining political power? Why was Cicero unable to prevent the collapse of the Republic despite recognising the warning signs? How did Augustus use political positioning, strategic relationships, and carefully distributed authority to strengthen his leadership? Who were the influential figures behind Augustus, and how did they help sustain his power? What parallels exist between ancient Roman power structures and the influence of modern technology billionaires and business leaders? How did Servilia exercise political influence without holding formal authority? What can modern leaders learn from Rome about navigating cultural expectations, political systems, and hidden power? Take Action Examine Your Cultural Context: Reflect on the expectations, traditions, and unwritten rules that shape what is possible for leaders within your organisation. Understand the Sources of Power: Look beyond formal authority and identify how relationships, resources, loyalty, and influence determine who makes decisions. Recognise the Limits of Awareness: Learn from Cicero's experience that recognising a failing system does not necessarily mean having the power or support to change it. Build Strategic Relationships: Consider how Augustus relied on trusted allies such as Agrippa, Maecenas, and Livia to strengthen his position and maintain stability. Pay Attention to Hidden Influence: Learn from Servilia's ability to navigate complex political relationships and influence decisions without an official leadership position. Question Established Systems: Identify where individuals or groups are accumulating influence outside traditional organisational structures and consider the long-term implications. Think Beyond Immediate Decisions: Recognise the importance of planning what happens after a major leadership decision, particularly when attempting to change an established system. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:33 Weekly Leadership Question: Cultural Context and Power 00:49 Planet Zoë: Manuscript Editing and Book Title Help 01:35 Power Games Giveaway Winners 02:55 Meet Fiona Forsyth 04:19 Why Ancient Rome? 05:36 Studying Latin and Reading Roman Writers 07:29 Who Was Ovid? 12:07 Why Augustus Exiled Ovid 17:31 Power and the Fall of the Roman Republic 21:48 Cicero, Political Influence and Ruthlessness 23:26 The Catiline Conspiracy and the Limits of Legal Power 25:31 Cicero Watches the Republic Collapse 26:55 How Augustus Reshaped the Roman Republic 28:42 Agrippa, Maecenas and Livia: Power Behind the Throne 30:31 The Power of Ordinary Romans and the Grain Supply 31:22 Ancient Rome: What Feels Modern and What Feels Alien? 32:25 Technology Billionaires, Political Power and Modern Parallels 36:18 Servilia: The Master Strategist Behind the Scenes 41:25 Fast Three: Surprising Roman History 42:14 Cicero's Political Influence and Cutting Insults 46:34 Fiona Forsyth's Historical Fiction and Ovid Mystery Series 49:55 Final Thoughts, Power Games Giveaway and Next Guest

October 18, 202652 min

420: Why Some Leaders Rise and Others Fall: Lessons from Ancient Rome with L.J. Trafford

Ancient Rome author and historian L.J. Trafford joins Zoë to explore how personality, power, and political influence shaped leadership during one of Rome's most turbulent periods, the Year of the Four Emperors. Drawing from her Four Emperors historical fiction series and extensive research into Roman history, L.J. unpacks how four very different leaders rose to power following Nero's death, and why some managed to hold onto it while others quickly lost everything. The conversation explores leadership character, political ambition, the influence of military power, and the hidden figures who shaped decisions behind the scenes. Zoë and L.J. discuss the contrasting leadership styles of Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian, the political brilliance of Augustus, and the powerful role of imperial freedmen. They also uncover surprising parallels between ancient Rome and modern politics, challenging the idea that leadership success comes down to personality alone. Discover Zoë Routh's Power Games: The Leader's Guide to Office Politics and Drama-Free Collaboration, and enter the weekly paperback giveaway. Enter the Giveaway HERE Key Quotes "Personality does matter, and it does matter who you've got at the top and who you've got as emperor." - L.J. Trafford "The truth that they learn is that the power is with the army. The army can make emperors." - L.J. Trafford "As a systems thinker and systems leader, things are way too complex just to rely on a single human to make a difference, and yet personality can have an impact." - Zoë Routh Questions Asked How much does personality matter when it comes to leadership success? What can Rome's Year of the Four Emperors teach us about leadership and power? Why did Galba, despite his experience, lose power so quickly? How did Otho inspire loyalty even when defeat seemed inevitable? What made Vespasian more successful at restoring stability and maintaining power? How did Augustus balance political influence with the appearance of shared power? Who were the hidden power players behind Roman emperors, and how did they influence decisions? What parallels can we draw between ancient Roman politics and modern leadership? How can leaders balance personality, influence, and structural power to create lasting stability? Take Action Understand Your Leadership Impact: Reflect on how your personality and behaviour influence trust, loyalty, and decision-making. Look Beyond the Leader: Identify the systems, resources, and relationships that enable or restrict leadership effectiveness. Recognise Hidden Power: Pay attention to the people who control access, information, and influence behind the scenes. Build Broad Support: Learn from Vespasian's ability to balance the expectations of different groups while restoring stability. Lead with Political Awareness: Understand how power operates within your organisation rather than relying on authority or charisma alone. Question Leadership Narratives: Consider how reputations are shaped by those who hold power and whose perspectives may be missing. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:31 Meet L.J. Trafford 01:06 Planet Zoë Updates and Power Games Giveaway 03:39 Tea Talk Guest Introduction 04:56 Ancient Rome Banquet Excerpt 07:38 Interview Begins 08:06 Why Ancient Rome? 10:09 The Year of the Four Emperors 10:51 Galba's Rapid Fall from Power 15:33 Otho's Charm, Loyalty and Sacrifice 18:25 Vitellius and the Power of the Army 21:25 Vespasian Restores Order 23:51 How Roman Emperors Used Power 26:13 Was Augustus a Good Leader? 28:24 Augustus and the Art of Holding Power 29:30 The Praetorian Guard and Military Influence 30:58 Imperial Freedmen and Hidden Power 32:45 The Downfall of Messalina 34:10 The Assassination Plot Against Domitian 35:37 Ancient Rome and Modern Political Parallels 37:34 What Roman Life Reveals About Society 40:23 Roman Sexuality and Moral Expectations 42:31 Leadership Lessons from Vespasian 43:35 Fast Three: Surprising Roman History 46:57 L.J. Trafford's Books and Rome's Worst Emperors 49:30 Zoë's Leadership Takeaways and Wrap Up

October 11, 202631 min

419: The Great Man, Hidden Hands and Buried Code - What Ancient Rome Teaches Us About Power

What do you do when you feel powerless inside a system? In this episode, Zoë Routh returns for a new season of The Future of Leadership with a big question: how can we exercise power and influence when the systems around us seem bigger than we are? Drawing on ancient Rome, organisational leadership and her own fascination with power, Zoë introduces three lenses for understanding how power operates: the Great Man, the Hidden Hands and the Buried Code. This conversation is for leaders navigating: -power imbalances inside organisations -systems that feel difficult or impossible to change -leadership cultures built around powerful personalities -hidden influence and informal networks -policies and practices that reinforce existing power -the risks and responsibilities of speaking up -how to create change when you are not the person at the top Zoë explores how systems are built to contain power, and what happens when those systems gradually begin to shift. Using Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and the festival of Lupercalia as a case study, she examines how charisma, loyalty, influence, money and deeply embedded cultural beliefs can shape political and organisational systems. She also introduces the idea of the Buried Code: the values, assumptions and beliefs sitting beneath a system that determine what people accept, resist or protect. From ancient Rome to modern workplaces, Zoë asks leaders to look beyond the visible person in charge and examine the structures, policies, relationships and stories that allow power to operate. The episode also explores quiet resistance, whistleblower protections and the personal risks involved in challenging a system when something is not right. Plus, Zoë shares updates from Planet Zoë, including her return from Canada, the launch of her new author bookstore, rewrites of Composure, Moments and Loyalty, and the completion of her 400-plus-page historical novel, The Pearl and the Dagger. If you have ever wondered how to influence a system without wearing the crown, this episode offers a framework for seeing power differently. Key Moments: 00:00 Welcome to the show 00:38 Passion, Power, Politics & the season's big question 01:04 Planet Zoë: life, travel & personal updates 03:07 Book updates & The Pearl and the Dagger 05:55 Power inside systems 08:23 Three theories of power 11:45 Lupercalia: Mark Antony offers Caesar the crown 15:01 Caesar through the three lenses of power 19:21 The Buried Code & the rise of Augustus 24:50 How small system changes reshape power 26:34 What leaders can examine inside organisations 27:42 Hidden Hands, quiet resistance & the risks of speaking up 29:23 Power Games giveaway & what's coming next Go Deeper: Explore Zoë's books: https://zoerouthauthor.com Enter the Power Games giveaway here Learn more about Power Games: https://zoerouthauthor.com/products/power-games-paperback

June 15, 202624 min

418: The Long Game: Time, Meaning, and Living Beautifully in a Finite World

In this reflective solo episode, Zoë Routh explores one of the biggest questions leaders and humans face: how should we think about time, and what does it mean for how we live and lead? Drawing from her Chrysalis workshops on late-career transitions, Sarah Wilson's book I Eat the Stars, and her own experiences of writing, rebranding, and reconnecting with readers, Zoë invites us into a wider perspective on life, purpose, and mortality. She shares exciting developments in her author world, including the merging of her fiction and leadership work under a new umbrella called The Long Game, work on second editions of her early books, and progress on her first historical novel, The Pearl and the Dagger. At the heart of the episode is a meditation on time. From the lifespan of the Earth and the eventual death of the universe to the accelerating experience of decades as we age, Zoë explores how a long-view perspective can help us loosen our grip on anxiety and return to what matters most right now. She reflects on the seasons of life, from childhood wonder and achievement years to post-achievement transitions and the possibility of cultivation, wisdom, and savoring in later decades. Ultimately, she offers an invitation to live gratefully, love deeply, and make the most of our brief but precious existence. Key Quotes: "Choose to live well and lightly now." - Zoë Routh "If I have five decades ahead of me, or five days, how can I live gratefully and beautifully?" - Zoë Routh "Our time on Earth is finite. What shall I do to make the most of it?" - Zoë Routh "Sometimes we need to zoom out to the scale of the universe to come back to what matters today." - Zoë Routh "This brief whisper of life is precious, fleeting, and aren't we lucky?" - Zoë Routh Take Action: • Consider how your relationship with time has changed over the decades. • Ask yourself: If I only had five more decades, what would I cultivate? • Reflect on what matters most to you right now. • Identify which season of life you are currently in: achiever, post-achiever, cultivator, explorer, wisdom keeper, or savorer. • Notice where you may be overcomplicating life and ask: What would help me live more lightly? • Practice gratitude for the ordinary moments and relationships that make life meaningful. Life Stages Zoë Explores: 0–10: Magic Wonder, imagination, discovery, and delight. 20s: Learning to Adult Responsibility, relationships, and finding independence. 30s: Achiever Mode Making a mark and building a career. 40s: Maturing Achiever Greater wisdom, capability, and leadership. 50s: Post-Achiever Transition Releasing the need to prove and asking, "What now?" 60s: Cultivation and Harvest Planting seeds, tending what matters, and harvesting the fruits of experience. 70s: Exploration Continuing to discover the world with curiosity and presence. 80s: Wisdom and Ritual Living simply through gratitude, connection, and sacred rhythms. 90s: Savoring Appreciating the richness and beauty of life. Resources Mentioned: • I Eat the Stars: How to Live Fully and Beautifully in a Collapsing World – Sarah Wilson • Claude AI - for strategy, streamlining, and creative thinking • ChatGPT - for exploring scientific perspectives on time and the lifespan of the universe • Zoë's newsletters: Fit for the Future Leadership Bookish Coming soon under the new banner: The Long Game Key Moments: 00:00 Welcome & The Big Question About Time 01:00 Personal Updates & Returning from Canberra 02:10 Rebranding Under The Long Game 03:20 New Editions and Writing Projects 04:20 A Reader Finds The Olympus Project 06:20 Identity and Purpose Through The Chrysalis Program 08:10 Time, Mortality and Making the Most of Life 09:00 Sarah Wilson and Collapse Awareness 10:30 The Lifespan of Earth and the Universe 15:10 Returning to the Present Moment 16:40 Why Time Speeds Up as We Age 18:30 Seasons of Life and Leadership 20:30 Imagining the Decades Ahead 22:00 Living Beautifully in a Finite World 24:00 Closing Reflections & Winter Break This episode is an invitation to zoom out and take the long view. Through reflections on time, mortality, and the seasons of life, Zoë reminds us that while our days are finite, they are also rich with meaning and possibility. Rather than rushing through life, perhaps the real work is to savour it, to live with grace, lead in service, and love deeply.

May 29, 202643 min

417 Aging Workforce & Second Acts: Purpose, Identity, and Energy with Mel Kettle

Sustainable success strategist and communication expert Mel Kettle joins Zoë Routh to explore the opportunities and challenges of an aging workforce, second-act careers, and designing a meaningful later chapter of life and work. Together they discuss why many experienced leaders no longer want traditional retirement, how identity and purpose evolve beyond job titles, and why creating social connection, flexibility, and energy awareness becomes increasingly important with age. The conversation also tackles workplace misconceptions about older employees, menopause and andropause at work, and how organisations can better support people through major life transitions while retaining valuable experience and wisdom. Design your next chapter with clarity, purpose, and intention through Zoë Routh's guided workshop series, The Chrysalis: Late Career by Design. Register Here: https://events.humanitix.com/the-chrysalis-late-career-by-design Key Quotes "The people who don't need to work anymore often still have the most to offer." - Mel Kettle "We are all so much more than what we do for a living." - Mel Kettle "Do more of the things that give you energy and less of the things that drain it." - Mel Kettle "Most people don't want to stop working. They just want a different version of work." - Zoë Routh Questions Asked What challenges does an aging workforce create for employers and employees? Why are so many experienced leaders looking for a "second act" instead of retirement? How can organisations retain knowledge and expertise from older workers? What role does identity play in later-career transitions? How do social connection and purpose impact wellbeing as we age? What gives us energy versus drains us in work and life? How should workplaces approach menopause and andropause conversations? What policies can reduce bias and support employees more fairly? Take Action Redefine Retirement: Consider what your "second act" or "protirement" phase could look like. Build a Portfolio of Purposes: Develop multiple sources of meaning beyond your job title. Protect Your Energy: Identify what energizes and drains you physically, emotionally, mentally, and socially. Strengthen Social Connection: Invest in friendships, communities, and activities outside of work. Create Flexible Work Models: Explore advisory, mentoring, or part-time pathways instead of abrupt retirement. Normalise Life Transitions: Encourage more compassionate and practical workplace conversations around aging and wellbeing. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:30 Aging Workforce Question 00:44 Chrysalis Workshop Plug 01:32 Meet Mel Kettle 02:40 Second Act Careers 04:29 Employer Aging Conundrums 08:24 Flexible Roles and Advisors 10:38 Energy and Aging 14:15 Identity Beyond Work 17:04 Protirement Purpose Portfolio 19:45 Books and Social Connection 21:58 Men Building Networks 23:16 Coffee Invite Milestone 23:36 Golf Mates Deep Talks 25:03 Finding Your People 26:04 Menopause at Work 28:17 Bias Fears and Biology 30:00 One Bucket Leave Policy 32:17 Privacy and Sick Notes 32:59 Managing Leave Fairly 35:44 Fast Three Questions 38:14 Books and Identity 40:07 Where to Find Mel 41:10 Wrap Up and Next Steps If you enjoyed this conversation with Mel Kettle, revisit her previous appearance on the podcast: " Leadership Skills with Mel Kettle ," where Zoë and Mel explored connected leadership, communication strategies, digital credibility, and building trust through authentic engagement in an increasingly disconnected world.

May 25, 20261 hr 13 min

416 Midlife Identity Shifts: Creating a Meaningful Late-Career Chapter with Dan Gregory

Leadership strategist and behavioral expert Dan Gregory joins Zoë to explore identity, reinvention, and the challenges of creating a meaningful late-career chapter. Drawing on psychology, systems thinking, and personal transformation, Dan explains why deep change must happen at the identity level before behavior and culture can truly shift. Together they unpack midlife transitions, career reinvention, leadership evolution, and why letting go of old definitions of success is essential for growth. The conversation explores set point theory, bridging identity gaps, designing environments that support transformation, and how leaders can move from achievement-driven careers toward more intentional and meaningful futures. Design your next chapter with clarity, purpose, and intention through Zoë Routh's guided workshop series, The Chrysalis: Late Career by Design. Register Here: https://events.humanitix.com/the-chrysalis-late-career-by-design Key Quotes "The purpose only makes sense once you know who you are." - Dan Gregory "Discipline is useful, but design beats discipline." - Dan Gregory "Most people spend their lives aiming for silver instead of going for gold." - Dan Gregory "It's not a crisis, it's a chrysalis." - Zoë Routh Questions Asked What happens when our work identity starts to crumble in midlife? Why does transformational change need to happen at the identity level? How do leaders redefine success in later career transitions? Why do people gravitate back toward familiar behaviors even when they are unhealthy? What is the difference between goals and intentions? How can leaders design environments that make positive change self-correcting? What does it mean to create a bridging identity during reinvention? Take Action Redefine Success: Ask yourself what success means in this next season of life and career. Focus on Identity First: Clarify who you want to become before deciding exactly what you want to do. Design Better Environments: Create systems, habits, and surroundings that reinforce the future version of yourself. Let Go of Consolation Prizes: Stop aiming for "safe" versions of success and pursue what genuinely matters. Create a Perfect Day Vision: Imagine how you want to feel, work, contribute, and live in your next chapter. Key Moments 00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:33 Midlife Identity Question 00:55 Planet Zoë Updates 01:17 Chrysalis Program Invite 02:14 Meet Dan Gregory 03:22 Setting the Scene 04:50 Identity Layers Explained 08:13 When Work Identity Crumbles 10:24 Seasons and Reinvention 12:14 Letting Go to Transform 15:21 CEO to Board Shift 19:14 Wobbling Plates Midlife 22:37 Bridging Identity Gaps 28:56 Set Point and Certainty 33:38 Who Before Why 35:30 Designing a Perfect Day 36:01 Goals vs Intentions 37:24 Career Twists That Add Up 38:33 Stop Aiming for Silver 40:21 Midlife Game Change 42:09 Who Before Why 42:49 When Everything Fell Apart 45:15 Weight Loss Identity Shift 48:04 Identity Drives Culture 52:30 Design Beats Discipline 01:03:38 Systems Thinking Provocations 01:07:36 Fast Three Questions 01:09:18 Books and Dark Psychology 01:11:37 Where to Find Dan 01:12:24 Podcast Wrap and Next Week If you enjoyed this conversation with Dan Gregory, make sure to revisit his previous appearance on the podcast: Episode 123 How to Future Proof Your Leadership Skills with Dan Gregor y , where Zoë and Dan explore forever skills, people-smart leadership, values-based decision-making, and how leaders can think more clearly in complex times.

May 15, 202653 min

415 Moral Courage in Leadership: Lessons from Dag Hammarskjöld with Sara Causey

Leadership futurist and author Sara Causey joins Zoë to explore the moral courage and leadership legacy of Dag Hammarskjöld, the second Secretary-General of the United Nations. Drawing from her books Decoding the Unicorn and the forthcoming Simply Dag, Sara unpacks why Hammarskjöld's leadership during the Cold War remains deeply relevant today. The conversation explores ethical leadership in complex systems, quiet diplomacy, psychological safety, and the tension between service-driven leadership and power structures. Zoë and Sara discuss Hammarskjöld's role during the Congo Crisis, the suspicious circumstances surrounding his death, and what modern leaders can learn about moral courage, listening, and leading without ego. Design your next chapter with clarity, purpose, and intention through Zoë Routh's guided workshop series, The Chrysalis: Late Career by Design. Register Here: https://events.humanitix.com/the-chrysalis-late-career-by-design Key Quotes "Sometimes problems are not outright solved. They have to be outlived and outgrown." - Sara Causey on Dag Hammarskjöld "You absolutely have to be willing to listen more than you speak." - Sara Causey "The office itself and the goal of world peace was so much more important than his own individual ego." - Sara Causey Questions Asked Who was Dag Hammarskjöld and why does his leadership still matter today? What happened during the Congo Crisis and the circumstances surrounding Hammarskjöld's death? How can leaders show moral courage in complex systems? Why is listening a foundational leadership practice? What does ethical leadership look like during periods of political and social division? How do leaders avoid escalating conflict while still standing for their values? Can quiet diplomacy still work in today's world? Take Action Practice Deep Listening: Create space to genuinely hear opposing perspectives before reacting. Lead Beyond Ego: Focus on service, purpose, and outcomes rather than personal validation. Respond, Don't Escalate: Avoid feeding conflict unnecessarily and choose strategic calm. Hold Moral Courage: Stay grounded in ethical leadership even when systems push against it. Create Psychological Safety: Build environments where people feel seen, heard, and included. Key Moments 00:00 Introduction and Big Question 00:43 Planet Zoë Updates 02:00 Surf Injury Story 03:05 Newcastle Friendship Wins 03:57 The Chrysalis Program Invitation 05:57 Meet Sara Causey 07:24 Who Was Dag Hammarskjöld 09:56 Sara's Origin Story 12:55 The Congo Crisis and Assassination 18:07 Who Was Behind It 20:05 Values Under Threat 24:52 Leading Ethically Today 27:12 Restorative Justice and Listening 29:12 Moral Courage in Leadership 30:12 Cold War Leadership Pressure 32:20 Dag Under Fire 33:38 China POW Diplomacy 34:49 Channeling Dag Today 35:32 Quiet Strength Over Ego 39:16 Legacy and UN Relevance 44:40 Fast Three Questions 46:37 Books and New Projects 50:07 Creative Rebirth and Career Shift 51:26 Wrap Up and Sign Off

March 9, 202627 min

414: Living the Good Life: Meaning, Community, and Flourishing in Late Career

In this solo episode, Zoë Routh explores a timeless question: what does it mean to live a good life? Drawing on Dan Coyle's Flourish , she describes flourishing as "joyful, meaningful growth shared with others," built on two foundations: meaning-making and community. Through stories like the Chilean miners who survived 69 days underground and her own experience navigating IVF after cancer, Zoë reflects on how humans create meaning even in life's hardest moments. Bringing together ideas from Aristotle, Martin Seligman, Dan Pink, and Hugh Mackay, she introduces her three pillars of integral flourishing: • Experience - pleasure, freedom, beauty, and enoughness • Impact - contribution, relationships, and legacy • Character - virtue, transcendence, and mastery Ultimately, Zoë reminds us that there is no single formula for the good life, only conscious choices that help us live well, connect deeply, and create meaning along the way. Key Quotes "Flourishing is the experience of joyful, meaningful growth shared with others." - Zoë Routh quoting Dan Coyle "We may never know why we are here but we can still choose the meaning we make from our experience." - Zoë Routh "You cannot flourish in a cave." - Aristotle (as discussed by Zoë Routh) "The good life isn't one formula, it's a pattern of experiences, contribution, and character." - Zoë Routh Take Action • Reflect on the question: What does living the good life mean for you right now? • Try the "Everyone at the Table" visualisation, imagine the people who love you, your higher self, and your higher power gathered around a table offering guidance. • Assess your life across Zoë's three pillars: Experience, Impact, and Character. • Identify which areas feel vibrant and which may need nurturing. • Join Zoë's free workshop on Midlife & Late Career Transitions (March 12) to explore deeper tools for navigating change. The Three Pillars of Integral Flourishing 1. Experience • Pleasure and aliveness • Freedom and spaciousness • Beauty and awe • Simplicity and "enoughness" 2. Impact • Contribution to others • Meaningful relationships • Legacy beyond your lifetime 3. Character • Virtue and integrity • Transcendence beyond ego • Mastery of skill and craft Resources Mentioned • Dan Coyle - Flourish: The Art of Building Meaning, Joy, and Fulfillment • Viktor Frankl - Man's Search for Meaning • Hugh Mackay - The Good Life: What Makes a Life Worth Living? • Martin Seligman - PERMA Model of Well-Being • Dan Pink - Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us Key Moments 00:00 Welcome & The Question of the Good Life 01:00 Granny Grommets and Community Connection 02:00 Midlife & Late Career Transitions Workshop 03:00 Retreat Plans and Letting Ideas Marinate 04:30 Flourishing and Dan Coyle's Research 06:00 The Chilean Miners and Meaning-Making 10:00 "Everyone at the Table" Visualization Exercise 12:30 The Human Need for Meaning 15:00 IVF Story and Personal Meaning-Making 18:00 Frameworks for Living a Good Life 21:00 Zoë's Integral Flourishing Model 24:00 The Shadow Side of Flourishing 25:00 Reflection Exercise for Listeners 26:00 Closing Thoughts and Invitation