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Wrestling Payments

Wrestling Payments

Hosted by NEACH

BusinessCareersInterviews guests

Episodes

74

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

Wrestling Payments is a podcast for professionals working at banks, credit unions, and FinTechs who are responsible for managing ACH and payment operations. In each episode, members of NEACH guide conversations to help professionals examine the challenges of modernizing payment operations. Ultimately, the stories uncovered through guest interviews and solo episodes will highlight industry trends and identify how organizations can build their payment operations for the future.

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60 recent
August 16, 2026Episode 622 min

Fighting Back Against Credit Push Fraud: New ACH Rules for Originators

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Jordan Bennett, AAP, APRP (Senior Director, ACH Network Risk Management at Nacha) joins Joe ahead of NEACH's End User Fraud Symposium to break down the new ACH rules targeting social engineering fraud — and for the first time, they put real obligations on originators, not just financial institutions. Jordan Bennett Key topics Jordan Bennett introduces himself as Senior Director of ACH Network Risk Management and explains how his work now includes helping originators adapt to newer ACH rules. The symposium format is explained - one day for financial institutions, one day for end users and companies so both sides can talk through fraud from their own perspective. The new ACH rules are aimed at social engineering schemes, not just traditional unauthorized debit fraud that the industry has gotten much better at managing. Vendor impersonation is a major risk: a fraudster pretends to be a supplier, claims banking details changed, and tricks a company into sending money to the wrong account. Simple controls can block many scams, especially dual approval and callback procedures using a trusted internal contact list instead of the email sender’s phone number or reply contact. Urgency is a major red flag. If someone says a payment must go out right now and there is no way to verify it, Jordan says to slow down and treat it as suspicious. Real estate has been ahead of the curve for years because wire fraud during closings can derail the whole transaction, not just steal the funds. Account takeover and phone-based fraud are still active, including scams where someone impersonates a bank’s fraud department and asks for one-time codes or login credentials. If fraud is suspected, speed matters. Call the financial institution immediately, get the receiving bank involved, and move fast before the money disappears. Businesses face different protections than consumers, so companies need to understand their own responsibility and not assume consumer-style safeguards will apply. The same fraud prevention mindset should apply across payment methods, including ACH, wires, and checks. Check fraud comes up as a major industry issue, with both the Federal Reserve and payment organizations trying to reduce exposure. Jordan also mentions first party fraud as an upcoming topic, especially as banks and originators wrestle with customers disputing transactions they originally authorized. More from NEACH: neach.org

July 30, 2026Episode 536 min

Unlocking Data and Decision Making in Banking: A Conversation on AI-Driven Insights

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) How can community banks compete with the largest financial institutions in an AI-driven world? In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Sean Carter, President & CEO of NEACH, and Toli Amare, co-founder of Predium.ai, to discuss how artificial intelligence, decision intelligence, and data analytics are transforming banking. From fragmented data and outdated reporting processes to real-time scenario modeling and fraud detection, this conversation explores how financial institutions can leverage AI to make faster, smarter, and more confident decisions—without needing a team of data scientists. Whether you're a community banker, fintech leader, executive, or payments professional, you'll gain practical insights into how better data leads to better decisions, stronger profitability, and a competitive edge. In This Episode Why data quality is the foundation of effective AI The hidden costs of fragmented banking systems How Decision Intelligence helps executives make smarter business decisions Real-time scenario modeling for mergers, pricing, and strategic planning Using AI to identify profitable customers and products Fraud detection through continuous data monitoring Why community banks can compete with larger institutions using modern analytics The role of financial expertise alongside AI technology Practical examples of merger analysis, profitability modeling, and risk management The future of AI in banking and continuous decision optimization Key Takeaways ✔ Turn disconnected banking data into actionable insights ✔ Test strategic decisions before committing capital ✔ Improve profitability with customer and product-level analytics ✔ Detect operational risks and fraud in real time ✔ Make faster, more confident executive decisions using AI

May 27, 2026Episode 438 min

The Fintech Regulation Cage Match

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Understanding the Future of Fintech Regulation: The Cage Match BeginsIn this episode of Wrestling Payments, Joe Casali dives into the recent executive order that aims to overhaul fintech regulation. As the landscape shifts, understanding how regulation affects fintech firms, banking partnerships, and consumer protections becomes critical for industry participants and observers alike. In this episode: The core aspects of the May 19th executive order titled "Integrating Financial Technology Innovation into Regulatory Frameworks" The current fragmented regulatory environment and the gaps fintechs face How executive orders influence regulatory change and the potential scenarios that could unfold The implications of direct access to Federal Reserve accounts for non-banks The disparities across states in regulating fintechs and their consumer protections The potential impacts of the new framework on bank partnerships and the overall payment infrastructure Key questions for the industry moving forward: participant categories, due diligence, dispute resolution, and failure protocols Resources & Links: Federal Reserve, Executive Order on Financial Technology NACHA Operating Rules The Geniuses Act OCC Fintech Charter Initiatives PACE Act Overview White House Executive Order Connect with Joe Casali: LinkedIn Stay tuned for future episodes as the regulatory landscape continues to evolve, shaping the future of fintech and payments.

April 10, 2026Episode 325 min

FedNow Goes Global: How Proposed Reg J Changes Could Enable Cross-Border Instant Payments

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Episode Description The Federal Reserve just proposed changes to Regulation J that would allow FedNow participants to designate intermediary banks — opening the door for cross-border payments over FedNow for the first time. Joe Casali breaks down what the rule actually changes, how the domestic and international legs of a cross-border FedNow payment would work, and why this might be the moment ISO 20022 finally proves its value. He covers the competitive implications for Fedwire, the BSA/AML screening challenges of real-time international transactions within a 20-second timeout window, and what community banks and credit unions on FedNow should be thinking about right now. The 60-day comment period begins April 10, 2026. If your institution has a perspective on this proposed rulemaking, now is the time to make your voice heard. References: Federal Reserve Proposed Rulemaking — Docket No. R-1891, RIN 7100-AH23 | Regulation J, Subpart C — 12 CFR Part 210 | Submit comments at federalreserve.gov/apps/proposals | FedNow Operating Procedures v3.5 (February 2026)

March 18, 2026Episode 226 min

Conversations from The Clearing House Conference

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Episode Summary In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Phil Robin, SVP of Strategy at The Clearing House. They explore how financial institutions are approaching the challenges of modernizing payment operations, with a focus on risk, governance, and the rapid pace of change in new technologies. Phil shares his perspective on the importance of building strong governance around artificial intelligence, noting that a clear framework helps institutions manage both cultural and operational risks as they introduce new tools. He highlights the varied approaches that banks take, shaped by their unique priorities and use cases, and stresses that inaction is often the greater risk as AI becomes more integrated into payment processes. The conversation moves to emerging topics like stablecoin, tokenized deposits, and the steady growth of real-time payments (RTP). Phil explains how shifting regulatory clarity and evolving customer needs are driving experimentation, especially in areas like business-to-business and consumer-to-business payments. He points to the ongoing expansion of RTP and the need for broad acceptance to reach true scale, encouraging payment leaders to keep their eyes on both innovation and fundamentals. Guest-at-a-glance 💡 Name: Phil Robin 💡 What he does: SVP, Strategy 💡 Company: The Clearing House 💡 Noteworthy: Guides strategy projects focused on payments innovation, governance, and risk, with deep expertise in real-time payments and industry modernization. 💡 Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philrobin1/ Key Insights Focus on Governance First When Adopting AI Strong governance is the foundation of responsible AI adoption in payments. Before diving into the promise of artificial intelligence, organizations must set clear rules and accountability. This means building frameworks around data security, transparency, and risk appetite to ensure any AI use aligns with institutional priorities. When banks and payment providers define the “rules of the road” early, they give staff and leadership confidence to experiment and scale new tools. Governance also helps ease cultural resistance by making the organization’s approach to AI visible and consistent. With guardrails in place, teams can better focus on the practical benefits of AI—like automating manual tasks or unlocking growth opportunities—without losing sight of the risks. The key takeaway: don’t treat governance as an afterthought or a compliance hurdle. Make it the starting point for any serious AI strategy in payments. Instant Payments Will Scale Through Use Case Diversity Real-time payments (RTP) have moved from concept to reality, but true growth hinges on solving a wide range of business needs. Volume keeps hitting new records, yet the next wave of adoption will depend on how RTP addresses complex problems, especially in areas like business-to-business and healthcare payments. Each segment brings unique challenges around data, timing, and control. For example, B2B payments often involve detailed invoices and reconciliation, while brokerage transfers demand speed and confirmation. As more financial institutions explore RTP for these distinct cases, the network’s value and reach will expand. Building for use case diversity ensures that RTP is not just a faster way to pay, but a flexible tool that adapts to industry-specific workflows. Payment professionals should keep looking for unmet needs—these are where RTP can deliver the most impact and drive long-term adoption. Stablecoin and Tokenization: Navigating Fast-Moving Terrain The landscape for stablecoin and tokenized deposits is evolving quickly, creating both urgency and uncertainty for banks. Regulatory changes, like recent national trust charter approvals, h

March 5, 2026Episode 255 min

Washington Update

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Episode Summary Wrestling Payments kicks off 2026 with a trip to the Hill. Host Joe Casali sits down with William Sullivan, Associate Managing Director of Government and Industry Relations at Nacha, for a wide-ranging Washington update on the policies shaping the future of payments. William breaks down the latest twists in open banking rulemaking—including a potential reversal on whether financial institutions can charge for data access—and explains why stablecoin legislation remains gridlocked between banking and crypto interests. He offers a candid look at the political dynamics slowing progress on the Clarity Act, cannabis banking, and check reduction efforts, showing how competing priorities and election-year pressures keep even common-sense reforms stuck in neutral. Throughout the conversation, William emphasizes that advocacy and engagement aren't optional—payment professionals need to understand these shifts and make their voices heard before the rules are written. Guest-at-a-Glance William Sullivan Associate Managing Director, Government & Industry Relations, Nacha Leads Nacha's advocacy and industry relations efforts, delivering actionable insights on ACH network policy, payment regulation, and legislative developments affecting financial institutions. www.nacha.org To hear this episode and many more like it, listen here or subscribe to Wrestling Payments on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. For show notes, transcripts, and other resources visit www.wrestlingpayments.com . Host: Joe Casali, EVP, NEACH #wrestlingpayments #wrestlingpaymentspodcast #paymentspodcast

February 11, 2026Episode 2641 min

The OCC Charter Loophole: An Illegal Hold on Community Banking?

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Episode Summary Wrestling Payments kicks off 2026 with a critical conversation. Host Joe Casali is joined by Brian Laverdure and Mickey Marshall from the Independent Community Bankers of America (ICBA) to unpack the growing regulatory gap between fintechs and traditional banking. As non-banks rapidly expand into mortgage lending and payments, community institutions face an uneven playing field—and the stakes are rising fast. Mickey breaks down how the OCC's National Trust Bank charter has become a backdoor for crypto companies to issue stablecoins without standard bank supervision, FDIC insurance, or community reinvestment obligations. Brian walks through the legislative landscape and explains why the current rulemaking race will define the future competitive environment for community banks. Together, they paint a sobering picture: if deposits migrate from local banks to stablecoin wallets, the capital that funds small business loans, mortgages, and local economic growth disappears with them. This episode is a must-listen for anyone in community banking or payments. The message is clear—education and advocacy aren't optional anymore. Guests-at-a-Glance Brian Laverdure Vice President, Payments and Technology Policy, ICBA Specializes in digital asset policy and cross-border payment frameworks for community institutions. LinkedIn Mickey Marshall Vice President and Regulatory Counsel, ICBA Legal expert navigating payments regulation, novel bank charters, and cryptocurrency regulatory challenges. LinkedIn To hear this episode and many more like it, listen here or subscribe to Wrestling Payments on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. For show notes, transcripts, and other resources visit www.wrestlingpayments.com . Host: Joe Casali, EVP, NEACH #wrestlingpayments #wrestlingpaymentspodcast #paymentspodcast

November 19, 2025Episode 2544 min

Building a Stablecoin Strategy: Steve Wasserman and Larry Pruss Weigh In

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) Episode Summary In this episode of Wrestling Payments, Joe Casali sits down with Steve Wasserman of Vments and Larry Pruss of Strategic Resource Management for an urgent conversation about the seismic shifts happening in payments right now. Stablecoins and tokenized deposits aren't coming—they're here, and they're already pulling deposits away from traditional institutions. Steve breaks down the critical differences between these technologies and why full-reserve models are creating both new opportunities and existential threats for banks and credit unions. Larry shares eye-opening data on deposit outflows and explains why institutions can't afford to wait while new players capture customer relationships. The conversation tackles practical challenges head-on, from building acceptance networks to preventing costly user mistakes, and explores how QR codes and programmable money are about to transform the payment experience. This episode is a wake-up call: the time to develop your digital asset strategy isn't someday—it's now. Guests-at-a-Glance Steve Wasserman Founder and CEO, Vments A leading voice in digital currencies and payments infrastructure, helping financial institutions navigate the strategic complexities of stablecoins and emerging payment technologies. LinkedIn Larry Pruss Senior Vice President, Digital Assets Advisory Services, SRM (Strategic Resource Management) A strategic advisor guiding banks and credit unions through the digital assets landscape with practical, regulatory-ready approaches to emerging payment trends. LinkedIn Key Insights The Deposit Battle Is Already Underway Financial institutions are losing deposits to stablecoins and digital asset platforms at an alarming rate—in some cases, 3% per month. This isn't a future threat; it's happening now. Stablecoins operate on full-reserve models with public blockchain transparency, offering speed and efficiency that attract businesses and consumers alike. Traditional institutions that viewed competition as coming only from other banks are now facing deposit outflows to fintechs and digital platforms that operate with fewer intermediaries. The competitive landscape has fundamentally shifted, and institutions must develop new strategies to retain customers and stay relevant in this digital-first payments world. Strategy First, Adoption Second The pressure to launch stablecoin products or tokenized deposit services is intense, but rushing in without a clear strategy leads to wasted resources and customer confusion. The winning approach starts with understanding user needs, building acceptance networks, and establishing the right partnerships before launching anything. Institutions need to map out how payments will be accepted, integrate with wallet providers, and ensure smooth conversion between digital assets and traditional money. This methodical planning manages risk, supports compliance, and prevents customers from defecting to better-prepared competitors. In this rapidly evolving space, strategic groundwork separates sustainable growth from expensive mistakes. QR Codes and Programmable Money Are the Future Interface The next generation of payments is being built on secure QR standards and programmable money. Technologies like X9 QR codes let users pay across multiple rails—ACH, instant payments, cards, or wallets—with a single scan. This streamlines the customer experience while enabling programmable features like automated refunds and conditional payments that eliminate manual intervention.

October 23, 2025Episode 2428 min

Locked In or Moving Forward: Rethinking Core Renewals

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) EPISODE SUMMARY In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Rich Carty from Remedy to dig into the realities of core technology contracts in banking and payments. Rich shares how financial institutions weigh tough choices when locked into long-term vendor agreements and why early planning is critical. He explains how most banks only revisit core contracts every few years, often finding themselves committed to outdated solutions for longer than they expect. Rich points out that new technology and artificial intelligence are top of mind for many leaders. He sees demand for AI solutions rising fast, but notes that organizations remain cautious, balancing the urge to innovate with the need to avoid early missteps. Rich encourages institutions to seek advice, gather input from all departments, and focus on due diligence before making changes. Throughout the conversation, Rich uses real stories to show the value of reviewing contracts and staying proactive. He highlights how the right approach can free up resources, improve vendor relationships, and help organizations adapt as the payments industry evolves. GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE Name: Rich Carty What he does: Vice President, Business Development Company: Remedy Noteworthy: Rich helps banks and credit unions review, negotiate, and optimize technology vendor contracts, with a focus on core systems, renewals, and technology transitions. Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-carty-24918918 KEY INSIGHTS Start Contract Planning Three Years Ahead Long-term vendor contracts shape how banks operate, often locking in core systems for up to a decade. Early planning is the best way to avoid getting stuck with outdated technology or unfavorable terms. Financial institutions that want options—like switching vendors or just negotiating a better deal—need to start the process two to three years before their current contract expires. This timeline accounts for vendor schedules, internal reviews, and the complexity of core system transitions. By moving early, organizations protect themselves from last-minute decisions and keep leverage at the table. The approach also gives teams time to gather input across departments and align technology with business goals. In a fast-moving payments landscape, a proactive timeline is the difference between staying ahead and falling behind. Due Diligence Uncovers Savings and Prevents Regret A thorough review of technology contracts can reveal hidden costs and new opportunities. Even long-standing vendor relationships deserve a second look, as loyalty doesn’t always mean the best price or terms. With due diligence, organizations spot gaps, compare options, and often negotiate better deals. This process can free up resources for growth, support new projects, or make room for future upgrades. Relying on familiarity or letting contracts auto-renew leads to missed savings and limits flexibility. By treating every renewal or transition as a strategic decision, financial institutions protect their budgets and set themselves up for smarter, more agile operations.

October 9, 2025Episode 2326 min

Jordan Thaeler on Merchant Choice and the True Cost of Payments

Send us a text. (email us if you need a response) EPISODE SUMMARY In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Jordan Thaeler to explore how embedded payments lock merchants into costly, inflexible systems. Jordan explains why many software providers bundle payment services with their core products, leaving merchants with few choices and rising costs. He shares how this model drives up payment fees over time while reducing merchant leverage and support. Jordan describes the risks of a market where software and payments are tied together. He uses examples like Toast and Shopify to show how merchants often pay much more than the market average, with little transparency or recourse. As more processing volume moves to embedded payments, Jordan argues that choice and competition are critical for a healthier payments ecosystem. The conversation turns to dual pricing models and the global push for bank-to-bank payments. Jordan makes the case for more options and education, so merchants are no longer “hostages” to their software providers. GUEST-AT-A-GLANCE Name: Jordan Thaeler What he does: Co-Founder Company: POS+ Noteworthy: Known for exposing hidden payment practices and building tools that give merchants more choice in payment processing. Where to find him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjthaeler/ Guest Company Website: https://www.posplus.org/ KEY INSIGHTS Embedded Payments Can Trap Merchants in High-Cost Systems When software providers bundle their own payment services into their platforms, merchants lose the ability to shop for better rates or support. Over time, these bundled arrangements drive up payment costs while locking businesses into a single provider, making it tough to switch even when fees rise or service drops. This lack of competition leads to higher margins for software companies, but often leaves merchants paying far above the market average. The friction of changing systems, along with limited transparency, means that many businesses end up stuck with unfavorable terms. The core insight is clear: without real choice and portability in payment workflows, merchants risk becoming hostages to their own software—paying more for less flexibility. Choice and Transparency Lower Merchant Payment Costs Giving merchants freedom to choose among payment providers can restore balance in the payments ecosystem. Integrating open payment workflows into popular software platforms allows businesses to negotiate better deals and demand improved service. When payment options are unbundled, outside experts and local providers can step in to educate merchants, offer support, and keep costs in check. This shift not only reduces the risk of inflated fees but also promotes honest pricing from software vendors, who must stand behind the true cost of their core products. In a landscape where margins are tight, especially for small businesses, having more transparency and options directly supports their bottom line.

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