Upzoned

Hosted by Strong Towns

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100

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Aug 2026

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About the show

Sometimes, a hot new story will cross our desks that we need to talk about right away. That's where Upzoned comes in. Join Strong Towns President Chuck Marohn , Carlee Alm-LaBar , Norm Van Eeden Petersman , and other guests to talk in depth about one big story from the week in the Strong Towns conversation, right when you want it: now.

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60 recent

September 9, 2026Episode 29845 min

What Happens When Malls Start Charging for Parking?

What happens when something people have always treated as free suddenly gets a price tag? A USA Today article, “Shopping Malls Are Charging for Prime Parking. It’s Not Going Well,” looks at what happens when a long-standing free amenity suddenly has a visible cost. Carlee Alm-LaBar talks with Parking Reform Network founder Tony Jordan and developer Monte Anderson of Neighborhood Evolution about what changes when shoppers are asked to pay directly for that convenience. For owners, “free” parking has never actually been free: the lot still has to be paved, repaired, cleaned, secured, and eventually rebuilt, even when much of it sits empty. If the land is expensive to maintain, could it be doing something more useful? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Shopping malls are charging for prime parking. It's not going well " by Jessica Guynn, Usatoday.com (August 2026) Downzone: The Urban Climate Solution (Site) Civic Leader Summit (Site) Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Tony Jordan (LinkedIn), Parking Reform Network (Site) Monte Anderson (LinkedIn), Options Real Estate (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

September 2, 2026Episode 29744 min

This Tiny Backyard Home Cost $600,000

A Los Angeles couple set out to build a 400-square-foot backyard home for about $300,000, only to watch the final cost climb to $600,000 in a project recently profiled by Lisa Boone in the Los Angeles Times. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Tamara White of Small Housing and Mary Coddington, founder of 12 Incorporated, about what pushed the cost so high. The couple chose an ambitious design and built on a difficult site, but they also had two major advantages many small housing projects never get: they already owned the land, and they were allowed to build. If the land and permissions were already in place, what made the price skyrocket, and how much of that complexity could actually be removed? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " A compact ADU built on a dramatic ridgeline ‘floats’ over L.A. and its Midcentury neighbor " by Lisa Boone, Latimes.com (August 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Tamara White (LinkedIn) Mary Coddington (LinkedIn) Articles mentioned and Downzone: 'She couldn’t afford L.A. rent after law school. Her parents’ ADU came to the rescue' (Article) Courtenay Cohousing (Site) A Voter’s Guide to Asking Candidates about Housing (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

August 26, 2026Episode 29638 min

When Did Letting Kids Play Outside Become a Crime?

A six-year-old rides his scooter to a playground a quarter mile from home. Two days later, Child Protective Services is at his family’s door. His case is one of several in a recent New York Times article asking whether letting children play outside alone has effectively become a crime. Chuck Marohn talks with Lenore Skenazy, founder of the Free-Range Kids movement and president of Let Grow, and planner and pedestrian-safety advocate Angie Schmitt about “worst-first thinking,” neglect laws, and the decline of walking and biking to school. Parents are expected to raise capable, independent kids while also keeping them under constant watch, while the built environment often makes even short walks to school or the playground harder for children to navigate on their own. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Should Letting Children Play Alone Outside Be a Crime? " by Ian Frisch, Nytimes.com (August 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Lenore Skenazy (LinkedIn), Let Grow (Site) Angie Schmitt (LinkedIn), Love of Place (Substack) Downzone: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks (Site) The Wisdom of Not Knowing: Discovering a Life of Wonder by Embracing Uncertainty by Estelle Frankel (Site) A Marriage at Sea: A True Story of Love, Obsession, and Shipwreck by YSophie Elmhirst (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

August 19, 2026Episode 29556 min

L.A.’s 8-Mile Bike Path Is Now a $1 Billion Project

An eight-mile gap keeps Los Angeles from having a continuous river bike route through the heart of the city. Voters approved hundreds of millions of dollars to help close it, but years of planning have pushed the project toward a possible billion-dollar price tag. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by transportation advocate Dave Snyder, Pasadena city councilmember and longtime local government leader Rick Cole, and Strong Towns chief technical advisor Edward Erfurt to examine how a straightforward connection became a megaproject. Flood control, emergency access, environmental concerns, neighborhood connections, labor requirements, and long-term reliability have each added something defensible to the plan. Meanwhile, a simpler path could reportedly close the entire gap with the money already available. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " The eight-mile gap in the L.A. River bike path downtown has a billion-dollar problem " by Mack Baysinger, Latimes.com (August 2026) Downzone: Start Your Farm: The Authoritative Guide to Becoming a Sustainable 21st-Century Farmer , by Ellen Polishuk and Forrest Pritchard (Site) the Movement Newsletter (Substack) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Dave Snyder (LinkedIn) Rick Cole (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

August 12, 2026Episode 29445 min

The Water Crisis That Left a Small Town Abandoned

Hartman, Colorado, reached a point where it could no longer function as a town. Its water system was unsafe, every member of the town board had resigned, and no one remained with the authority to hold an election or sign the agreements needed to fix the water. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Joshua Hopkins, mayor of Chugwater, Wyoming, and Strong Towns executive director John Reuter to look past the political infighting and ask what happened before the final collapse. The question facing places like Hartman and Chugwater is increasingly basic: How much town can a very small community actually afford to maintain? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Colorado declares town abandoned amid water and leadership crisis " by Ramon Antonio Vargas, Theguardian.com (August 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Joshua Hopkins ( LinkedIn , Instagram ) John Reuter (LinkedIn) Articles mentioned and Downzone: How a Rodeo Arena Can Strengthen A Rural Community (Bottom-Up Short Episode) Don’t Give Up on Your Small Town (Article) Whatever Happened to the Music Teacher? How Government Decides and Why by Donald Savoie (Book) Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini (Book) Chugwaterite (Instagram) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

August 5, 2026Episode 29338 min

What If NIMBYs Were Paid to Say Yes?

What if the easiest way to overcome opposition to new housing was simply to pay people to accept it? A recent article in The Atlantic argues that after state laws, packed public meetings, and economic appeals have failed to overcome local resistance, cash payments might succeed where persuasion has not. Chuck Marohn is joined by John Reuter, executive director of Strong Towns, and Dr. Chloe Groome, treasurer of Strong Towns Chicago, to test that idea against what they’ve seen in real neighborhoods. Their discussion turns to what happens when new neighbors are framed as a burden, and whether cash can do the work that persuasion, trust, and local relationships have failed to do. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " A Perfectly Crude Solution to America’s Housing Shortage " by Rogé Karma, Theatlantic.com (July 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) John Reuter (LinkedIn) Dr. Chloe Groome (LinkedIn), Strong Towns Chicago (Site) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt (Site) Farm To Taber (YouTube Channel) Stolen Revolution: Betrayal and Hope in Modern Iran by Yeganeh Torbati and Bozorgmehr Sharafedin (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

July 29, 2026Episode 29240 min

When Boomers Don’t Downsize, What’s Left for Everyone Else?

What happens when one generation holds much of the country’s housing wealth and has little reason to give it up? Chuck Marohn talks with Strong Towns board chair Andrew Burleson and historic property renovator Richard Rumrill about boomers buying bigger homes, even as younger families wait for those houses to come back onto the market. The generational frustration is easy to understand, but the expected handoff assumes older homeowners will be ready to leave. What happens when the people expected to move have nowhere they want to go, and everyone behind them is still waiting? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Boomers Were Supposed to Downsize. They Are Buying Bigger Homes Instead. " by Rachel Louise Ensign, Wsj.com (July 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack) Richard Rumrill (LinkedIn), Strong Towns RVA (Site) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan (Site) Kids Over Cars (Substack) #42 Charles Duff: North Atlantic Cities - The Forgotten Blueprint for the Future Building Culture (Podcast) The North Atlantic Cities by Charles Duff (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

July 23, 2026Episode 29134 min

The Retirement Plan Trapped Inside the Housing Crisis

Americans have been told that buying a home is one of the safest ways to secure their future. But when retirement depends on home values continuing to climb, affordability begins to look like a threat. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Daniel Herriges, co-author of Escaping the Housing Trap, and Alli Thurmond-Quinlan, executive director of the Incremental Development Alliance. Together, they push beyond the idea that housing is simply an investment problem. Limited supply, narrow housing choices, transportation, retirement, and municipal finance are all tied into the same system, leaving people with fewer ways to find security at every stage of life. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " The Housing Crisis Is Also a Retirement Crisis " by Kyla Scanlon, Nytimes.com (July 2026) Downzone: From Strength to Strength , by Arthur C. Brooks (Site) Construction Physics (Substack) World Cup 2026 (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn) Alli Thurmond-Quinlan (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

July 15, 2026Episode 29048 min

Chicago’s $1.2 Billion Parking Meter Problem

In 2009, Chicago traded 75 years of parking meter revenue for a $1.2 billion payment that helped fill an immediate budget hole. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Tony Jordan, executive director of the Parking Reform Network, and Edward Erfurt, chief technical advisor at Strong Towns, to look at what the city actually gave up and why its recent $3.3 billion bid never made it to the finish line. The lease still shapes decisions about removing parking for bus lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, while the revenue keeps flowing to a private operator instead of back into the places generating it. That leaves Chicago with a much harder question than whether the original deal was bad: what would it take to manage the curb again, regain flexibility and use that money to improve the streets themselves? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Mayor’s $3 Billion Parking Meter Offer Was $800 Million More Than The Next Highest Bid, Investor Says " by Mick Dumke, Blockclubchicago.org (June 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Tony Jordan (Site) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Articles mentioned and Downzone: ' Why ‘SimCity’ has no parking lots, and other insights from the lead designer ' (Article) Simulating the Future: a webinar with Stone Librande (Video) A Wailing Of A Town: An Oral History of Early San Pedro Punk And More 1977-1985 by Craig Ibarra (Book) Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better by Jennifer Pahlka (Book) Sam Walton: Made In America , by Sam Walton and John Huey (Book) Microlandia (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .

July 8, 2026Episode 28949 min

Can Rebuilding Make a Town Weaker?

Five years after wildfire destroyed most of Lytton, British Columbia, rebuilding remains slow despite more than $140 million in committed public funding. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Michel Durand-Wood, author of You’ll Pay for This, and Graham Watt, who manages strategic initiatives and flood recovery for Grand Forks, British Columbia. They look at what happens when a small town is pushed to rebuild everything at once, while also dealing with hazardous conditions, limited local capacity, consulting costs, modern codes, and the long-term obligation to maintain whatever comes next. The money creates a promise of recovery, but Lytton shows how hard it is to turn that promise back into a town. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES " Inside Lytton’s contentious recovery, where concerns smoulder 5 years after wildfire " by Brenna Owen, Halifax.citynews.ca (June 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Michel Durand-Wood (Site) Graham Watt (LinkedIn) Downzone: The Baby-Sitters Club Human Nature by Kate Marvel (Site) The Blackthorn Key , by Kevin Sands (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom . This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members . Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons .