The SALT Shaker Podcast

Hosted by Eversheds Sutherland

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100

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Jun 2026

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About the show

State and local tax jurisdictions continue to evolve their tax systems around the US. Analyzing the latest key decisions, legislative and regulatory changes, and revenue agency guidance, the Eversheds Sutherland SALT Team focuses on providing tax professionals with a quick update of the most important developments in US state and local tax. The SALT Shaker Podcast helps tax professionals navigate growing challenges in the evolving tax systems of state and local jurisdictions.

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60 recent

June 2, 202624 min

New York's budget: What didn't happen says as much as what did

The long-awaited New York State budgetGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT ShakerGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT Shaker has arrived, and while it may not have produced major headline-grabbing tax increases, there's plenty beneath the surface worth unpacking. In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Ken Pokalsky, Vice President of Government Affairs at The Business Council of New York State, to break down what made it into the budget, what didn't – and how the budget's tax provisions will impact New York taxpayers moving forward. Ken shares an insider's perspective from Albany, exploring why this year's negotiations stretched well past the April 1 deadline, how competing political priorities shaped the final deal, and why, in his words, the takeaway might be: "It could have been worse." The conversation also touches on early warning signs for next year's budget cycle. And, of course, the episode wraps with a lighthearted debate on whether punctuality is overrated or underrated. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

May 27, 202619 min

Curly fries and conjunctive tests: Business income, explained

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor break down the business versus non-business income divide. They also explore how the Multistate Tax Commission's recommended shift in terminology – from business/non-business income to apportionable/non-apportionable income – refocuses the analysis on whether income is constitutionally apportionable. Chelsea and Jeremy then walk through the two key tests used in determining business income: the transactional test and the functional test, and how these tests often overlap. Their discussion centers on the Arkansas Supreme Court's recent decision in Hudson v. US Beef, involving the sale of franchise operations. The court found the gains from the sale were non-business income under the three requirements in Arkansas' business income definition. Chelsea and Jeremy also unpack the dissent, which argued the majority improperly blended the functional and transactional tests, underscoring how fact-specific – and potentially blurred – this analysis can be. The episode concludes with key takeaways on applying these tests across jurisdictions, along with an overrated/underrated debate on summer staples. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

May 14, 202617 min

Federal preemption primer: The Supremacy Clause and state tax limits

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor introduce federal preemption and how the Supremacy Clause limits state taxing authority. When federal and state laws conflict, federal law controls, requiring state law to give way. Jeremy and Chelsea outline the two types of preemption: express and implied. Drawing on examples from technology, services, and digital advertising taxes, the discussion highlights the continued importance, and active litigation, surrounding preemption in the SALT space. You can follow along with the discussion using Congress's "preemption taxonomy" chart, linked here. The episode concludes with a brief overrated/underrated debate on the Oxford comma. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

April 28, 202616 min

A Texas two-step on franchise tax: Lessons from NuStar and American Airlines

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor break down two noteworthy Texas franchise tax decisions that provide important guidance on sourcing and federal preemption. The hosts first discuss NuStar Energy LP v. Hancock, a Texas Supreme Court decision addressing how receipts from the sale of tangible personal property are sourced for franchise tax purposes. The court held that receipts are sourced to Texas based on where the property is delivered to the buyer, rejecting an "ultimate use" or consumption-based approach, even where the property (bunker fuel) could not legally be used in Texas. They then turn to Hancock v. American Airlines, where a Texas appellate court concluded that the federal Anti‑Head Tax Act preempts application of the Texas franchise tax to certain airline revenue streams. The court determined that, despite being styled as a margin tax, the franchise tax functions as a tax on gross receipts from air transportation, bringing it within the scope of federal preemption. The episode wraps up with an overrated/underrated debate on standing desks. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

April 14, 202613 min

Shedding light on tax administration through FOIA

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, hosts and Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor welcome Lauren Loricchio, Investigations Editor at Tax Notes, to discuss the publication's long‑standing commitment to government transparency and access to primary tax materials. Lauren traces the origins of Tax Notes back to its 1972 lawsuit against the IRS, which paved the way for public access to the Service's private letter rulings. She explains how her team continues that mission through its newly launched monthly newsletter, FOIA Findings, which uses the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and other open records laws to shed light on tax policy and tax administration. Their discussion explores the realities of the FOIA process – including delays, redactions, and litigation – and why access to original source material remains critical for tax practitioners, academics, and others monitoring tax administration and enforcement. The episode wraps up with a seasonal overrated/underrated segment: What are your thoughts on wearing shorts? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

March 31, 202615 min

A "third way" forward: Declaratory judgments in state tax disputes

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor sit down with Counsel Charles Capouet to discuss his recent article in Tax Notes State on the use of declaratory judgments to challenge unconstitutional state taxes. Charles explains how declaratory judgments can serve as a "third way" to contest a tax, allowing taxpayers to seek an early, definitive ruling on a tax's legality, often before experiencing significant financial impact. Interest in these actions is growing as states continue to adopt novel taxes that raise unresolved constitutional questions, and the conversation explores how this approach can benefit both taxpayers and states by providing greater certainty and helping avoid budget disruptions tied to later refunds. The group also discusses the limitations of declaratory judgment actions, which are typically confined to facial constitutional challenges and permitted only in certain states. The episode concludes with a timely "overrated/underrated" segment where the group discusses Opening Day of baseball. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

March 17, 202614 min

To challenge or not? Evaluating tax assessments after an audit

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor examine a pivotal moment in any state and local tax controversy: whether to take the next step after a tax assessment has been issued. Jeremy and Chelsea walk through the key factors they consider when deciding whether to challenge an assessment following an audit. They emphasize that the decision is rarely straightforward and often requires balancing several considerations, such as financial significance, procedural nuances, confidentiality protections, and the forum's independence and expertise. Their conversation concludes with a focus on litigation readiness, underscoring why building a strong evidentiary record during the audit stage is critical to preserving options and positioning a case for success beyond the administrative level. In closing, they wonder if buying a "mystery" book at the bookstore is overrated or underrated. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

February 17, 202616 min

Clicks, data, and dollars: Understanding state digital services taxes

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor unpack one of SALT's highly discussed and fast‑evolving areas: digital services taxes. Their conversation breaks digital services taxes into four distinct frameworks, helping listeners understand how states and localities are approaching the taxation of digital activity in different ways. The discussion covers Maryland's digital advertising tax, Washington's expansion of its sales tax to digital services, Chicago's social media amusement tax, and proposed data taxes – such as those in New York – that would impose tax based on the volume of consumer data companies collect and maintain. In closing, they wonder if the Winter Olympics are overrated or underrated. For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

February 3, 202613 min

The primary function test strikes again: Lessons from Beeline

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor break down a recent New York Appellate Division decision addressing a longstanding question in New York: Is providing a license to software always the sale of software? Jeremy and Chelsea unpack the Appellate Division's answer to that question in Beeline, who offered its customers a license to taxable prewritten software and nontaxable professional services. Applying New York's primary function test, and relying on the extensive record developed below, the court concluded that the transaction's objective was the taxable sale of software rather than nontaxable professional services. This week's overrated/underrated question takes on a fun one: birthdays. Are they overrated or underrated? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

January 20, 202619 min

Charting the journey: Celebrating our new SALT partners

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partner Jeff Friedman takes over as host and sits down with newly promoted partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor to celebrate their career milestones and reflect on the journeys that brought them here. Jeff guides Chelsea and Jeremy through a conversation about their distinct professional paths, the value of in‑person collaboration, and the satisfaction that comes from navigating complex client matters. They also look ahead, offering their perspectives on the developments they expect will reshape the practice of state and local tax in the years to come. The episode closes with the classic overrated/underrated segment – this time tackling award shows. Are they overrated or underrated? For questions or comments, email SALTonline@eversheds-sutherland.com. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog