The Rainmaking Podcast

Hosted by Scott Love

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376

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Sep 2026

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About the show

The Rainmaking Podcast will help you to get more business, better business, and all the business from your clients. This podcast is for professional services firms, law firms, and professional sales people. Discover the secrets of the world's leading experts in client development, business development, sales, closing, prospecting, networking, negotiation, influence, motivation, and achievement. www.therainmakingpodcast.com

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September 10, 202614 min

TRP 341: Expanding Trust in Your Niche with Scott Love

Most professionals believe you have to know someone, like them, and trust them before you do business. Scott Love says only one of those is non-negotiable — and it's trust. In this solo cast, Scott Love — legal recruiter, host of The Rainmaking Podcast, and co-author of Rainmaker Confidential — breaks down what trust actually is, how to build it at scale, and why reframing your business as a "trust-earning business" changes everything about how you develop clients. What you'll learn: Why "know, like, and trust" is misleading — and the only attribute that's truly non-negotiable How trust can be borrowed instantly through a referral (and what that means for your strategy) The three dimensions of trust: skill & competence, intention to serve, and execution & follow-through How to use thought leadership, testimonials, and professional involvement to signal trustworthiness before you ever meet someone Why small missed commitments quietly destroy client relationships — and how to protect against it How to build a strategic referral partner campaign from data you already have What a "trust funnel" looks like — and how Scott built one for his own recruiting practice Why speaking on panels and writing white papers should be seen as trust-building, not marketing How to scale trust from one-to-one to one-to-many through intentional generosity 3 action steps to expand trust in your niche starting this week Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/YWOJs4m2CUg ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity. For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/ ---------------------------------------- About Scott Love: Scott Love is a legal recruiter solely focused on recruiting corporate and finance partners for global law firms in major markets. He is the host of The Rainmaking Podcast, co-author of Rainmaker Confidential, and speaks professionally at conferences on sales, client development, and recruiting. 📘 Book: Rainmaker Confidential — RainmakerConfidential.com 📖 Rainmaking Magazine: free complimentary subscription at TheRainmakingMagazine.com 🎓 Free Webinars: RainmakingSeminars.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

September 3, 202624 min

TRP 340: The Trust Economy: Turning Credibility into Steady Deal Flow Without Pushing Harder with Chris Papin

Most professionals hate the idea of selling. What if you didn't have to? Chris Papin has built a thriving multi-discipline practice as a JD, CPA, and insurance producer — without ever feeling like he's pitching. The secret is the trust economy: a system of intentionality, authenticity, and regularity that builds steady deal flow without pushing harder. Chris Papin is a licensed attorney, certified public accountant, and insurance producer who works with small business owners and entrepreneurs across every stage of their business lifecycle. He's also the author of 168 Hours: A Startup Business Guide That Respects Your Time. In this episode, Chris joins Scott Love to break down exactly how professional services providers can stop relying on hustle and start building the kind of credibility that brings clients to them. You'll learn: Why deals are driven by emotion — and what that means for how you build trust with prospects How to use a 90-second anecdote to open doors at any networking event without pitching The "step zero" mindset shift that separates professionals who get results at conferences from those who just survive them Why showing up with a QR code instead of a business card is a trust signal — not just a tech flex How to use AI to data mine a conference attendee list and identify your top 10 targets in 30 minutes The two biggest pitfalls that destroy deal flow — and how to avoid both What a client "funnel" actually looks like for transactional professionals (lawyers, CPAs, consultants) Why regularity matters more than intensity — and how to build consistency into your BD rhythm even during busy seasons The "Think, Document, Do" framework: the three-step system that turns good intentions into actual pipeline 3 action steps to start building steady deal flow through trust — starting today Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/CNP3rUgqQSo ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity. For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/ ---------------------------------------- About Chris Papin: Chris Papin is a multi-talented professional with an impressive array of qualifications that give him a unique, holistic perspective as an advisor – a licensed attorney, a certified public accountant, and a life, accident, and health insurance producer. Chris holds a Bachelor's and Master's degree in accounting from the University of Oklahoma. He earned his Certified Public Accountant designation in 2007, followed by a Juris Doctor degree from Oklahoma City University School of Law in 2008. Admitted to practice before the United States Tax Court in 2010, Chris has garnered recognition for his achievements, including being chosen for the 2009-2010 Leadership Academy Class by the Oklahoma Bar Association and receiving the 2010 Trailblazer honor from the Oklahoma Society of Certified Public Accountants. In 2017 Chris' firm received the Recipient Thomson Reuters Innovation Award, a customer superstar award in the Thomson Reuters community, for doing the most to innovate, invigorate, and grow its practice for the benefit of its clients.  In 2022, Chris won the Top Emerging Firms of the Year, an award that celebrates innovative and forward-thinking companies that have made a significant impact in their respective industries. This prestigious award recognizes emerging firms that have demonstrated exceptional growth, financial performance, and a commitment to sustainability and social responsibility. It serves as a testament to the recipient's dedication to innovation, customer satisfaction, and business excellence. Links: https://papinspeaks.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispapin/ Order Chris Papin’s book here:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GL8P2PJD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

September 1, 202624 min

TRP 339: [Legal] Artificial Intelligence, Legal Tech and the Future of Law with Eric Thurston

Most law firms know AI is changing their industry. Fewer know exactly where to start, what to avoid, or how to build a technology strategy that doesn't blow up mid-implementation. Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of SurePoint Technologies — one of the most widely used legal technology platforms in the country — and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. He's seen thousands of law firms navigate technology change from the inside. In this episode, Eric joins Scott Love to share a clear-eyed, practical view of where the legal industry stands right now on AI and technology, and what firm leaders need to do to stay ahead of it. You'll learn: How AI has evolved from "just ask ChatGPT" to a genuine business strategy — and what that shift means for law firms right now The two sides of legal technology: practice of law vs. business of law — and why the business side is where most firms are leaving money on the table Why change management is the most underestimated part of any technology implementation The #1 mistake law firm leaders make when buying new tech tools (hint: it's not the tool itself) Why older, monolithic systems can't interact with modern AI — and what to do about it How one firm identified $70,000–$100,000 per attorney per year in recoverable revenue through process improvement alone Why attorneys aren't going away — but the nature of associate work is already changing How forward-thinking firms are rebranding, restructuring, and positioning themselves to be acquisition targets or platform buyers Why data cleanup is the most overlooked prerequisite for any AI initiative 3 action steps law firm leaders can take right now to build a technology strategy that actually works Eric also shares details on SurePoint's annual Ignite Conference — September 14–16 in Savannah, Georgia — and the firm's suite of practice management, business development, and legal intelligence solutions. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/ozGhSb72pTE ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Eric Thurston: Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of the Board at SurePoint Technologies and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. Having led organizations across legal technology, workforce management, and enterprise software, Eric specializes in driving growth, innovation, and customer success. Before becoming Executive Chairman, Eric served as President and CEO of SurePoint and previously held CEO and executive leadership roles at TCP Software, Personify, and Mitratech. His track record of building high-performing teams and growing technology businesses earned him recognition as an Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Year® finalist. Link to Ignite: Ignite2026 - SurePoint Technologies https://surepoint.com/ignite2026/?utm_source=rainmakingpod&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=me1215a1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 27, 202628 min

TRP 338: Earning Client Trust with Thought Leadership with Bill Sherman

Posting on LinkedIn once isn't thought leadership. Speaking on one panel isn't thought leadership. Real thought leadership is a strategy — and most professionals have never been given a clear framework to build one. Bill Sherman is COO of Thought Leadership Leverage, co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast, and lead co-author of The Thought Leadership Handbook — the book Scott calls the most intellectually rigorous, practically useful resource on thought leadership he's ever read. In this episode, Bill shares the framework he and his colleagues developed over 20 years of consulting with Fortune 500 executives, professional services providers, and emerging experts who want their ideas to travel further and earn more trust. You'll learn: The difference between being an expert and becoming a thought leader — and why the skills don't automatically transfer Bill's 20-word test: what every core idea must do to earn a "tell me more" The 4 elements of thought leadership: Core Idea, Content Library, Market Offerings, and Platform Identity — explained in full What a content library actually is (and why sticky notes on a wall is a perfectly legitimate starting point) Platform identity: how people talk about your ideas when you're not in the room — and why that matters more than personal brand Why most professionals suffer from "content insecurity" (imposter syndrome's cousin) — and how to push past it The paradox of knowledge-sharing: why giving away your best ideas makes more people come back to you Why the "keep it behind the paywall" instinct is the #1 thing holding thought leaders back How AI is absorbing generic expertise — and what makes your voice irreplaceable 3 action steps to shift from expert to thought leader and start building your platform today Bill also shares how The Thought Leadership Handbook came to exist — from 2.6 million words of podcast transcripts and two co-authors who said they'd never write a book. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/jCFNedZciu4 ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Bill Sherman: Bill Sherman stumbled into thought leadership when a Fortune 500 executive asked: "How do I scale the ideas in my book?" That was twenty years ago. Today he's COO of Thought Leadership Leverage and co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast. After exploring why experts share their best ideas with strangers, he thinks more of them should. That's why he put his frameworks and tools into The Thought Leadership Handbook. Bill lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.  Links: Bill's site: https://aha-moments.com/ Book: https://thoughtleadershiphandbook.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-sherman-aha-moments/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 25, 202628 min

TRP 337: [Legal] Law Firm Mergers: Private Equity/MSO Activity with TJ Henry

Private equity has moved through healthcare, dental, and accounting. Law firms are next — and the deals are already happening. But most law firm leaders don't fully understand the structure, the math, or the risks involved. TJ Henry is the co-founder and managing partner of Federate, a management services organization that launches, operates, and scales law firms. He's also one of the most knowledgeable people in the country on how MSO structures work, what investors are actually looking for, and what law firm founders need to know before they sit down at the table. In this episode — part of the Sometimes Tuesdays legal-specific series — TJ joins Scott Love for one of the most detailed, practical conversations the Rainmaking Podcast has ever had on law firm M&A, private equity, and the MSO model. You'll learn: What an MSO actually is — and why it's the legal workaround that makes third-party investment in law firms possible How 20-year contracts, EBITDA calculations, and per-timekeeper fees actually work in these deals Why a $100M revenue firm doesn't generate $100M in EBITDA — and how to find the real number What realistic deal multiples look like right now (and why low-to-mid teens should make you nervous) Why the lawyers most likely to get a deal done are the ones willing to stay and grow — not the ones looking to cash out and leave The three levers every PE investor needs to pull to run a profitable MSO deal: EBITDA arbitrage, law firm growth, and cost reduction What investors get wrong when they try to buy into law firms without law firm operators on their team The difference between a roll-up model and a multi-firm MSO — and the conflicts-of-interest issue that makes one harder than the other Why small to mid-sized firms are actually better deal targets than AmLaw 200 firms What "law firm in a box" looks like — and how Federate can get a new firm up and running in 60 days If you're a law firm founder, managing partner, equity partner, or investor evaluating the legal services market — this episode is required listening. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/lGP1mVGOMzE ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About TJ Henry: T.J. Henry is a seasoned legal operations and law firm executive with a track record of helping law firms and legal businesses launch, grow, and scale. He specializes in strategic transformation, operational design, and growth, with a focus on building the infrastructure, teams, technology, and systems that allow legal organizations to operate more effectively. T.J. is the Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Federate, where he works with law firms and investors across the legal industry. Links: https://federatelegal.com/contact/?utm_source=rainmaking_podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rainmaking_podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 20, 202610 min

TRP 336: Your Online Bio with Scott Love

Scott Love has read thousands of law firm partner bios. Most of them are bad. Most of them read like word-for-word copies of every other attorney at every other firm — and they do nothing to compel a prospective client to pick up the phone. In this solo episode, Scott breaks down the five pillars of a high-performing online bio: the framework he's developed over 30+ years as a legal recruiter that turns a forgettable credentials list into a compelling narrative that makes clients say, "Get me that person." This one applies whether you're a law firm partner, a consultant, a financial advisor, or any other professional services provider whose bio is the first thing a prospect reads before deciding whether to reach out. You'll learn: Why most professional bios fail — and the one question every bio must answer The difference between marketing and business development (and which one your bio actually is) The 5 pillars of a compelling online bio: Key Differentiators, Distinction Points, Value Proposition, Track Record & Proof Points, and Thought Leadership The "so what? so that." exercise that instantly reveals whether your bio is making a real case for you Why in-house experience, prior careers, and unusual backgrounds are your biggest untapped differentiators — and why most people leave them out How to turn a generic credentials paragraph into a narrative that shows what you actually do for clients What thought leadership on a bio looks like — and the specific details that signal authority to a prospect The final bonus tip: 15 minutes a day that separates consistent rainmakers from everyone else Scott also references his co-authored book Rainmaker Confidential (with Henry DeVries and Mark LeBlanc) — a full playbook for thought leadership and client development. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/yP09gNC3SZo ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Scott Love: Scott Love is a legal recruiter solely focused on recruiting corporate and finance partners for global law firms in major markets. He is the host of The Rainmaking Podcast, co-author of Rainmaker Confidential, and speaks professionally at conferences on sales, client development, and recruiting. 📘 Book: Rainmaker Confidential — RainmakerConfidential.com 📖 Rainmaking Magazine: free complimentary subscription at TheRainmakingMagazine.com 🎓 Free Webinars: RainmakingSeminars.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 18, 202628 min

TRP 335: [Legal] Law Firms of the Future with Tim Keith

The legal industry is about to change faster than most law firm leaders are prepared for. Private equity is coming. AI is already here. And the firms that keep doing things the way they've always been done are going to find themselves squeezed from both sides. Tim Keith is the CEO and founder of Propense AI, an AI-driven cross-selling and client intelligence platform built specifically for law firms. He's watched private equity transform the accounting industry in real time — and he's convinced the same inflection point is coming for legal, faster than anyone anticipates. In this episode, Tim joins Scott Love to lay out a clear-eyed view of what the law firm of the future actually looks like, what separates the firms that will lead from those that will be absorbed, and what managing partners and partners should be doing right now to get ahead of it. You'll learn: Why Tim believes the traditional partnership model will change dramatically within the next five years How private equity reshaped accounting in under four years — and why legal is next Why "we've never done it that way" is the most dangerous strategy in the current market The "one-firm mentality" — why cross-selling is no longer optional and how the best firms are executing it What non-lawyer ownership of law firms already looks like in practice (Arizona's precedent) How the billing model is shifting toward value-based pricing — and what that will look like in practice Why the "black box" of legal work is disappearing and what that means for your competitive position The rise of niche AI-native law firms — and the partners who are already leaving BigLaw to start them Why the middle market is going to get "swallowed up" and what that means if your firm lives there 3 action steps law firm leaders and individual partners can take right now to prepare Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ej-q2TZ0eGE ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Tim Keith: Tim Keith is CEO and founder of Propense AI. Our AI-driven platform analyzes historical data and market signals, providing firms with the insights they need to anticipate client needs before they arise. By enabling firms to serve with precision, we strengthen client relationships, enhance trust, and ultimately create greater value for everyone involved. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 13, 202628 min

TRP 334: Power Under Pressure with Emma Zia

Pressure is inevitable. But whether it contracts you or expands you — that's a choice. Dr. Emma Zia has spent nine years helping founders, executives, and high performers figure out which voice they're listening to, and how to change it. Emma is a high performance expert, author of Power Under Pressure, and holds a Doctorate in Metaphysical Science. She works with leaders at critical inflection points — when the stakes are highest and the old patterns are loudest. In this episode, she joins Scott Love to unpack the Contractor vs. Expander framework, the six hidden unconscious patterns that quietly cap success, and the practical tools to break through each one. Scott calls this one of the most personally meaningful conversations on the Rainmaking Podcast — one he read aloud to his wife and daughter. It's a little different. And it might be exactly what you need. You'll learn: What the Contractor and Expander voices are — and how to tell which one is running your decisions Why you cannot outperform your inner world (and what that means for your business results) The 6 hidden patterns that keep high performers stuck: Imposter, Overdrive, Chaos, Fortress, Freeze, and Control The Dimmer vs. Inflator — two faces of the Imposter pattern and how to spot them in yourself Why Warren Buffett's success is an argument against the Overdrive pattern The PlayStation level analogy: why you can't skip to the next level without breaking through the current one first Why fighting reality only intensifies suffering — and what acceptance actually looks like for a high achiever How one client went from zero sales for six months to $60K collected in four weeks after a single session The visceral body exercise that tells you in real time whether you're in contraction or expansion 3 action steps to start accessing your power under pressure today Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com YouTube: https://youtu.be/pdS6k1sUZRk ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Emma Zia: Dr. Emma Zia is a high-performance expert with over 9 years of experience working with leaders, founders, and teams during periods of growth and transition. She holds a Doctorate in Metaphysical Science and works with the unseen structures that drive success. Her approach blends psychological understanding with Extrasensory Perception (ESP), translating unseen principles into practical tools for becoming your best self in life and business. Links: Website: https://www.emmazia.com/ Book a session: https://calendly.com/emmazia/clarity-session-personal-business Get a copy of my book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GY1C84Z3 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-zia/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 11, 202626 min

TRP 333: [Legal] Elevating Emotional Intelligence for Lawyers with David Sarnoff

Research shows lawyers score below average in emotional intelligence compared to the general population. That gap is costing law firms talent, trust, and millions in preventable attrition. David Sarnoff is an ICF Certified Executive Coach, leadership trainer, and former attorney who founded Sarnoff Group LLC to do development work that actually sticks. He's also the co-author of Beyond the Courtroom: Proven Strategies from the Legal Field for Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, and Well-Being in the Modern Workplace. In this episode, David joins Scott Love to break down why emotional intelligence is so hard for lawyers to develop — and exactly how to build it. This is a legal-specific episode from the Sometimes Tuesdays series, and it's one of the most practically useful conversations the show has had on leadership, retention, and what actually keeps great attorneys and staff from walking out the door. You'll learn: Why lawyers as a population score below average in EQ — and what Martin Seligman's research on pessimism reveals about why The connection between low EQ and the legal profession's alarming rates of depression, substance abuse, and burnout Why 70% of what you communicate is nonverbal — and what partners are accidentally telling their teams without knowing it The "three words exercise" that reveals the gap between how you see yourself and how your team actually experiences you What the amygdala hijack is and why it makes otherwise rational lawyers act irrationally under stress The box breathing technique Navy SEALs use to stay calm in chaos — and how one practice group leader used it to stop a blow-up in real time What KKR discovered when they studied empathy in their portfolio company CEOs (it has nothing to do with being "nice") Why people don't leave law firms — they leave partners (and what the data says about attrition costs) How to use the EQI 2.0 assessment to get a baseline and track growth 3 specific action steps to start elevating your emotional intelligence today Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/HrfAyoqt9EQ ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About David Sarnoff: I founded Sarnoff Group LLC to do work that actually moves people, not just training that gets forgotten by Monday morning, but coaching and development that changes how leaders think, communicate, and show up for their teams. As an ICF Certified Executive Coach, leadership trainer, and former attorney, I bring a perspective most coaches can't offer: I've lived inside the high-stakes, high-pressure environments my clients navigate every day. That background shapes everything about how I work. Links: LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidsarnoff/Website:   www.sarnoffgroup.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 6, 202627 min

TRP 332: When to Say No to Business with Gina Rubel

"No is a complete sentence." It took Gina Rubel years of executive coaching — and nearly 25 years of running a top legal PR firm — to fully believe that. In this episode, she makes the case for why. Gina Rubel is the CEO and General Counsel of Furia Rubel Communications, a nationally recognized legal marketing, litigation PR, and crisis communications agency. She joins Scott Love for the Rainmaking Podcast's first-ever episode dedicated entirely to saying no — when to do it, how to do it, and why the most successful professionals in any field have mastered it. This conversation is packed with practical frameworks: red flag checklists, core values exercises, real-world stories from crisis comms and RFP negotiations, and the "yes, and" mindset that turns a firm no into a future opportunity. You'll learn: The 6 most common reasons a professional services provider should turn down business — and how to recognize each one early How to build your personal red flag checklist before you take another intake call Why your core values — not your revenue goals — should be the filter for every new client relationship The RFP negotiation story: how saying "we can't do this in time" turned into a stronger client relationship Why "no" doesn't always have to mean no — and how the "yes, and" approach keeps doors open How to actually say no to a prospect without over-explaining or burning the bridge Why culture fit doesn't mean identical culture — and what the real alignment requirement is The red flag you're probably overlooking: clients who don't value your advice When an existing client relationship warrants a no (and how to handle it with integrity) 3 action steps to start saying no to the right things starting today Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/DHktJ3_6xMw ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development. 📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- About Gina Rubel: Gina Rubel is the CEO and General Counsel of Furia Rubel Communications, Inc., a nationally recognized legal marketing, litigation PR, and crisis communications agency serving law firms, their clients, and legal industry organizations. Links: https://www.furiarubel.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginafuriarubel/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices