The Not So Breakfast Show

Hosted by Sacha and Ish

Business Careers Education

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Episodes

284

Latest episode

Aug 2026

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EN-US

About the show

Listen, laugh and learn as we share our latest thoughts about staying relevant, contemporary leadership and doing life right. Ish Cheyne is the Head of Fitness in New Zealand for global fitness juggernaut Les Mills. Sacha Coburn is the COO of Coffee Culture, a leading group of boutique coffee shops, and the co-founder of The Company You Keep.co.nz.

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60 recent

September 6, 2026Episode 27328 min

Do You Really Need to Find Your Why?

Send us Fan Mail Episode 273 Do you know your why? Your purpose? The deep, meaningful reason you leap out of bed every morning ready to change the world? No? Excellent. You may be absolutely fine. This week, Sacha takes aim at Simon Sinek and the whole “find your why” idea or at least the pressure that comes with it. Do we all really have one big purpose we’re supposed to uncover, or is that just another thing to feel behind on? Ish tries to work out whether purpose is something we discover, something we choose, or just a nice story we tell ourselves after accidentally ending up in the same industry for 30 years. Somehow this leads to Dolly Parton, coal, fake boobs, bad coffee and Ish going full Liam Neeson on a couple talking through a movie. Ish and Sacha unpack why purpose can be useful, where it starts to get a bit wobbly, and why sometimes it’s perfectly okay to just be good at what you do, enjoy parts of it, and build meaning as you go. Key Learnings 1. You don’t have to “find” your purpose Purpose doesn’t necessarily arrive as one giant revelation about what you were put on Earth to do. It may be something you gradually build by noticing what you're good at, what gives you energy, where you feel most yourself and how those things can be useful to other people. 2. Purpose and talent aren’t the same thing You can be extremely good at something without it being your life's calling. Ish reflects on the idea that the abilities that have helped him succeed in the fitness industry could probably have been applied in plenty of other industries too. 3. A good purpose doesn’t rescue a bad product You can care deeply about making the world's most meaningful cup of coffee, but if the coffee tastes terrible, people probably aren't coming back. Purpose can strengthen a good organisation, but it doesn't replace quality, competence or commercial reality. Sometimes making a genuinely useful product, treating people well and running a sustainable business is meaningful enough. 4. Your company’s purpose doesn’t automatically have to become yours Working somewhere whose values you believe in can absolutely make work more satisfying. But that doesn't mean employees need to absorb the company's mission as their personal reason for existing. 5. Purpose can change Family, work, experiences and major life events can all change what feels meaningful to us. That doesn't mean your old purpose was wrong or your new one is somehow less authentic. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

August 30, 2026Episode 27225 min

Why Smart People Still Make Dumb Decisions

Send us Fan Mail Episode 272 What happens when being “the smart one” becomes part of your identity? Apparently, you get very good at constructing brilliant arguments for ideas that may still be completely terrible. This week, Ish and Sacha get into the uncomfortable gap between intelligence and good judgement. There’s ego, groupthink, sunk costs, Harvard-sized imposter syndrome, a $200 million floating movie set, and the important reminder that sometimes the cleverest thing you can say in a meeting is: “Hang on… are we sure?” They explore what happens when intelligence gets tangled up with ego and identity, and winning the argument becomes more important than making the right call. Sacha admits to occasionally wanting to make the other person’s argument for them properly before rebutting it, which is both impressively efficient and perhaps not the strongest foundation for collaborative decision-making. The conversation moves through book smarts versus broader intelligence, the danger of mistaking confidence and eloquence for correctness, and why genuinely smart people tend to know the limits of what they know. They also look at groupthink: what happens when a room full of capable people all agree, nobody challenges the direction, and everyone confidently marches towards the same cliff. Then they ask one very useful question for projects, strategies and decisions that have taken on a life of their own: If we hadn’t already started this, would we choose to start it today? Key Learnings 1. Don’t confuse winning the argument with making the right decision Being articulate, persuasive or quick-thinking can help you defend almost any position. That doesn’t make the position correct. 2. The smartest people stay open to being wrong Real intelligence includes knowing where your knowledge ends. 3. A room full of smart people can still walk off a cliff Agreement isn’t proof that a decision is good. 4. Don’t let someone else’s intelligence silence your own contribution Sacha’s Harvard experience is a great reminder that being surrounded by impressive people can make us start discounting what we bring. 5. Previous investment is not a reason to keep making the same decision The further we get into a project, the easier it becomes to build a convincing story about why we simply have to keep going. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

August 23, 2026Episode 27125 min

Critical Ignoring: The Skill Your Attention Is Begging For

Send us Fan Mail Episode 271 Ish arrives with a voice that sounds like it’s been dragged through gravel, but fortunately it’s not illness; it’s karaoke. Ten songs, a bit of Blues Brothers, and a final assault on Sweet Child O’ Mine will apparently do that to a man. Once the vocal cords have been accounted for, we get into something most of us are probably terrible at: critical ignoring. Because between Slack, Teams, email, Instagram, notifications, hot takes, random rabbit holes and apparently an urgent need to learn everything about Mesopotamia, the problem isn’t just knowing how to think. It’s deciding what deserves your thinking in the first place. This episode is all about attention: where it goes, what steals it, and why being able to deliberately ignore things might be one of the most useful skills we can build. They explore the difference between critical thinking and critical ignoring, why businesses can’t be brilliant at everything, and how your diary and internet history may reveal your real priorities more accurately than what you say your priorities are. There’s also a live inspection of Ish and Sacha’s Instagram algorithms, Sacha’s inability to finish researching skincare, the idea that your attention may need its own nightclub bouncer, and a mildly terrifying detour into AI agents that are apparently prepared to throw Susan out of spin class to achieve their goals. Underneath all the chaos is a useful question: what are you allowing into your brain, and is it helping you do the things that actually matter? Key Learnings 1. Decide what deserves your attention before you start thinking about it 2. Protect your best working time 3. Your actual priorities leave evidence 4. Make distraction slightly harder 5. Critical ignoring is not the same as avoidance “Critical thinking matters. But first you have to decide what deserves your thinking.” The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

August 16, 2026Episode 27021 min

Congratulations, You’re the Manager. Sorry About Your Life.

Send us Fan Mail Episode 270 This episode is about one of the most common promotion traps at work: taking the person who is brilliant at doing the job and assuming they’ll naturally be brilliant at leading everyone else who does it. Ish and Sacha unpack why technical excellence and leadership ability are two very different things, why promotion has become the default way organisations reward high performers, and what can go wrong when somebody moves from doing the work to enabling other people to do great work . They talk about paying your stars more instead of automatically giving them people to manage, testing internal candidates against the external market, looking for openness to feedback, and dealing with the awkward truth that the skill or behaviour you ignore now will probably become a much bigger problem later. There’s also a lost Australian gig and a moment of silence for money never earned. Sacha discovering that relief can tell you quite a lot about the work you actually want to do, and a late recommendation for a TV series involving manipulated CCTV footage. Naturally. Key Learnings 1. Being brilliant at the work doesn’t automatically make you brilliant at leading it 2. Promotion shouldn’t be the only way to reward great people 3. Leadership means shifting from “me” to “you” 4. Look for people who are hungry for feedback 5. Don’t hire internally just because it’s convenient

August 9, 2026Episode 26917 min

Are You in a Work Situationship?

Send us Fan Mail Episode 269 Some people stay in a job for years. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re committed. They might just be comfortable, financially trapped, quietly checking Seek at lunchtime, or waiting for someone else to make the first move. In this episode, Ish and Sacha ask whether you and your employer are actually committed to each other, or whether you’re in a full-blown work situationship. You’re showing up, the bills are being paid, everyone’s being pleasant… but nobody wants to talk about the future. They look at why staying in a role isn’t the same as being committed, how strong productivity can disguise emotional distance, and the mixed signals leaders send when they talk about ownership, development, and value without backing those words up. There’s also a practical discussion about what to do when you know a job is no longer your end game. The answer isn’t to silently check out, damage your reputation, or burn every bridge on the way out. It’s to get deliberate: build your skills, update your CV, actively look for the next opportunity, and have an honest conversation where it’s appropriate. Key Learnings 1. Staying isn’t the same as committing Leaders need to look beyond attendance and output to understand whether people still care, feel connected, and see a future with the team. 2. Productivity can hide emotional distance Doing the job well and believing in the job are two different things. 3. Commitment needs evidence Telling someone they’re valued means very little if there’s no development. 4. Mixed signals destroy trust When words and behaviour don’t match, people stop believing the words. 5. Leave deliberately, not destructively Until you leave, protect your reputation. Quietly giving up may feel satisfying in the moment, but poor communication and burned bridges can follow you into your next opportunity.

August 2, 2026Episode 26819 min

Five Things Every Leader Should Know About Their Team

Send us Fan Mail Episode 268 In this episode, Ish and Sacha explore five things every leader should know about the people in their team, beyond names, roles and coffee orders. They unpack why motivation is never one-size-fits-all, how leaders can unknowingly drain people, and why “just tell me straight” often means “tell me promptly, but please don’t remove all traces of kindness.” The conversation also covers career aspirations, different forms of support, the importance of asking rather than assuming, and how small leadership habits can either set people up to succeed or quietly make their working lives harder. Along the way, Sacha shares the humbling attendance figures from her lunch-and-learn sessions, Ish reflects on helping a team member consider another role, and they both confess to being enthusiastic workplace interrupters. Key Learnings 1. Don’t assume people are motivated the way you are 2. Learn what drains people. Including the things you do 3. Feedback needs the right timing, context and delivery 4. Know what your people are trying to become 5. Ask what support looks like instead of guessing

July 26, 2026Episode 26726 min

Excellence Should Create Growth, Not Entrapment

Send us Fan Mail Episode 267 Being good at your job is meant to be a good thing. Until everyone notices, starts sending everything your way, and your reward for being reliable is a to-do list that now requires its own project manager. In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack the curse of being the capable one — why high performers get overloaded, why leaders keep defaulting to the same safe pair of hands, and how something that initially feels like recognition can quickly turn into frustration, burnout, or career stagnation. This episode explores what happens when capable people become the default solution to every problem. Sacha reflects on hiring new people at Coffee Culture and realising just how much work had quietly accumulated around a few highly capable team members. That leads into a wider conversation about the difference between being recognised and being properly rewarded, and why praise can sometimes be little more than a cheerful introduction to another task. They look at the issue from both sides. For capable people, the challenge is learning to set boundaries, manage upwards, clarify priorities and make sure extra work is actually leading somewhere. For leaders, it is about noticing when you are over-relying on one or two people instead of developing capability across the whole team. Along the way, they cover realistic training simulations involving breakfast at night, why senior leaders make staff suddenly forget how to make coffee, the hidden thinking behind work that looks effortless, and the danger of being remembered only for the one plate you finally dropped. Key Learnings 1. More work is recognition, but it is not always reward 2. Manage upwards by making the trade-offs visible 3. Over-relying on one star performer exposes a leadership gap 4. Work that looks easy may be hiding enormous skill 5. Hard work should be a deliberate choice The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

July 19, 2026Episode 26626 min

Rubik’s Cubes, Bougie Birthday Cakes and Three Very Useful Envelopes

Send us Fan Mail Episode 266 What do Rubik’s Cubes, children’s birthday cakes, startup pitch decks and a CEO with three envelopes have in common? Quite a lot, apparently. In this episode, Ish uses his hard-earned Rubik’s Cube mastery to explore how leaders solve problems. Sometimes we learn the process. Sometimes we copy someone else’s steps. Sometimes we outsource the whole thing. And sometimes we quietly rearrange the stickers and hope nobody looks too closely. The real question is whether you’re building the capability to solve the next problem or simply making this one look finished. Ish and Sacha unpack the surprisingly useful leadership lessons hiding inside a Rubik’s Cube. Ish shares how his first attempt at solving one produced the right result but very little actual learning. He followed a YouTube tutorial, completed the cube and then had absolutely no idea how to do it again. From there, the conversation explores shortcuts, outsourcing, internal capability and the difference between following a reliable process and genuinely understanding the problem in front of you. They discuss why leaders need dependable “algorithms” when they’re starting out, how experience helps you recognise patterns and move faster, and why breaking the rules only works once you’ve bothered to learn them. There’s also some excellent chat about cheating at family card games, paying professionals to make better birthday cakes, bringing new energy into established teams, the predictable cycle of corporate restructures and whether Duolingo’s animated bird should really be applying that much pressure. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

July 5, 2026Episode 26533 min

Terrible Leadership Advice

Send us Fan Mail Episode 265 In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack some of the worst leadership advice that often gets dressed up as wisdom. They start with the classic “don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions” and explore why that can shut down useful thinking if people haven’t properly defined the problem first. From there, they take aim at advice like “treat everyone the same,” “leave your emotions at the door,” “the customer is always right,” “never let them see you struggle,” “a good leader is always available,” and the ever-sparkly “pressure makes diamonds.” Along the way, there are stories about birthday awkwardness, conference bands, zebra crossings with actual zebras, gym equipment that definitely did not shake body fat away, open-door policies that sound drafty, and Sacha’s ongoing four-year battle with sugar. The real message? Leadership advice is rarely one-size-fits-all. A phrase might contain a useful idea, but if you apply it without thinking, it can quickly become lazy, unhelpful, or even harmful. Better leaders don’t just repeat advice; they test it, adapt it, and make it useful for the people and situation in front of them. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

June 28, 2026Episode 26422 min

What Your Boss Is Really Saying

Send us Fan Mail Episode 264 Ever sat in a meeting and heard a very vague, slightly passive-aggressive comment float across the room… then spent the next ten minutes wondering, “Was that aimed at me?” Same! In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack the weird little phrases we use at work to soften, dodge, delay, delegate, or quietly scream into the void. From “let’s circle back” to “as per my last email,” it turns out workplace language often says a lot more than the words on the page. This week, Ish and Sacha dive into the hidden meanings behind common workplace phrases and corporate jargon, the stuff we all say, the stuff we all pretend to understand, and the stuff that can create a whole lot of unnecessary grey. Ish kicks things off with a meeting moment where a vague general comment left everyone wondering who it was actually aimed at. Sacha connects that to the classic leadership trap of addressing the whole room when you really need to speak directly to one or two people. From there, they translate some of the greatest hits of office language: “let’s circle back,” “let’s park it,” “I’ll leave that with you,” “as per my last email,” “no worries if not,” “thanks in advance,” and the always ominous “quick chat.” Along the way, they talk about clarity, passive-aggressive communication, managing up, why examples matter, and why “don’t be a dick” sometimes lands better than a beautifully structured leadership framework. There is also a side quest involving Sacha climbing unfinished apartment buildings, perimenopause email rage, and Ish reviewing The Mandalorian and Grogu with the enthusiasm of a man deeply committed to Star Wars. Key Learnings 1. Vague messages create unnecessary anxiety 2. Corporate jargon often hides the real message 3. Say what you mean before people have to decode it 4. If you need action, give context 5. Cut-through beats corporate polish