The Leading in a Crisis Podcast

Hosted by Tom Mueller

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Latest episode

Oct 2026

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EN-US

About the show

What really happens when a crisis hits an organization—and how technology is influencing decisions and reputation impacts. Come hear what happened when experienced leaders were actually in the middle of a crisis—and capture the lessons before it happens to you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com. Your host, Tom Mueller, is a veteran crisis manager and trainer with more than 30 years in the corporate communications and crisis fields. Tom currently works as an executive coach and crisis trainer with WPNT Communications, and as a contract public information officer and trainer through his personal company, Tom Mueller Communications LLC. Our goal is to help you grow your knowledge and awareness so you can be better prepared to lead should a major crisis threaten your organization. Music credit: Special thanks to Nick Longoria from Austin, Texas for creating the theme music for the podcast. #crisis #crisismanagement #crisiscomms #crisiscommunications #BusinessContinuity #LeadingThroughCrisis #CrisisResponse #management #leadership

Listen to episodes

60 recent

October 28, 2026Episode 9634 min

NYPD detective shares his experiences from the 911 attacks and leading through chaos

Send us Fan Mail The fastest way to lose trust in a crisis is to pretend you know what you do not know. We sit down with Sal Lifrieri, a retired NYPD detective and member of an elite hostage rescue team who later worked in New York City emergency management and intelligence operations. His stories and lessons from “Leading Through Chaos” cut through the usual slogans and get into the real mechanics of crisis leadership when the media, politics, and your own ego all show up at once. We talk about the critical first press conference, why early “facts” are often wrong, and how strong crisis communication can be both honest and steady. Sal breaks down the tension leaders feel between public relations guidance, legal caution, and the pressure to say something right now. If you lead a company, government team, or nonprofit, you will recognize the moment where certainty is rewarded socially but punished operationally. The conversation also goes deeper into the emotional intelligence side of crisis management. Sal shares how cumulative trauma reshapes first responders over time, why relationships and support systems matter, and how one simple question from a boss “How are you doing?” can change a career. We also explore bureaucracy, the West Nile virus response, the risk communication problem created by malathion spraying, and why scanning for secondary effects is a leadership skill, not an afterthought. Sal's book is Leading Through Chaos and can be found at major booksellers. #crisiscommunications #leadership #policing #nypd #911stories #crisismanagement Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

October 21, 2026Episode 9531 min

Attacked by media, politicians, and activists: policing through civil unrest and disinformation

Send us Fan Mail Minneapolis didn’t need another spark, but leadership rarely gets to choose the timing of the next crisis. We sit down with former Minneapolis police chief Brian O’Hara to unpack what it’s like to lead when unrest feels one headline away, when staffing is thin, and when the smallest incident can cascade into something much bigger. We get specific about crisis leadership and crisis communication: how to be honest about limited resources without sounding helpless, how to show up early and often so people know who is accountable, and how to separate facts from unknowns in a way that builds credibility. Brian also walks us through the realities of media relations under constant scrutiny, where speed pressures accuracy, narratives harden fast, and a single misstep can erase months of trust. From there, we zoom out to leadership lessons any executive can use: why presence is powerful, why listening matters when you come in as an outsider, and how the gap between expectations and reality becomes the breeding ground for frustration. Brian also reflects on the human cost of performative politics, the weight leaders carry after tragedy, and the challenge of maintaining resilience when work-life balance simply is not available. We close by returning to the ICE surge and the operational chaos of mass protests, emphasizing the balancing act of protecting lawful protest while preventing the one or two bad actors from tipping everything into destruction. If you found this helpful, subscribe for more conversations on crisis management and leadership under pressure, share the episode with someone who leads people in tough moments, and leave a review so others can find the show. #minneapolis #policing #crisismanagement #crisisleadership Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

October 21, 2026Episode 9425 min

Minneapolis police under fire! Leadership lessons after the George Floyd riots

Send us Fan Mail Minneapolis became a global symbol of crisis, and Brian O’Hara walked straight into it. Right after George Floyd, the city faced deep community mistrust, protests, and an intense spotlight on policing. At the same time, violence surged and officers left in huge numbers, turning the Minneapolis Police Department into an organization fighting for its own stability. We talk through what it actually feels like to take command when the mission is questioned, morale is broken, and every decision lands in the headlines. Brian shares why his Newark, New Jersey experience shaped his approach to police reform, community safety, and crisis leadership. We get specific about what he discovered once he was on the ground: the hidden costs of trauma inside an agency, the operational drift that shows up when urgency disappears, and the uncomfortable truth that people often say they want “change” while really wanting “progress” without loss. That insight reframes everything from internal culture to community expectations. Reach Brian O'Hara via his website at https://oharaleadership.com/ Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

October 12, 202636 min

Leading under pressure - lessons in leadership and humility, with Jeff Johnson

Send us Fan Mail On this episode, we revisit our interview with Jeff Johnson, a longtime maritime leader and incident commander, and president of the Cook Inlet Tug and Barge Company. This episode originally aired in 2023. Jeff has sailed on tankers, worked across the United States and overseas, and shares with us his perspective on effective crisis leadership. We dig into the traits Jeff believes matter most for crisis leadership in shipping and beyond: relentless communication, real humility, and the flexibility to change course as conditions evolve. From unified command dynamics to the human side of leadership, Jeff explains why “checking your ego at the door” is more than a slogan, and how that mindset helps protect safety, build trust with impacted communities, and keep teams working as one. Then we get practical about the Incident Command System (ICS) and crisis communications. Jeff shares advice for new responders and communicators: use ICS habits in everyday operations, swap roles during exercises to find your best fit, and actually read the plans sitting on the shelf. We also unpack what makes a strong Public Information Officer (PIO): consistent data management, accurate reporting, and the patience to listen and stay for the full set of questions. Finally, Jeff outlines how global shipping changes incident planning, why strong partners matter, and how delegated authority and deputy leadership can speed approvals and prevent the endless revise-and-resubmit loop. #crisisleadership #leadership #crisiscomms #Alaska #CookInlettugandbarge Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

October 7, 2026Episode 9334 min

EP93 Targeting the LLMs and AI - your website should feed the monster

Send us Fan Mail You can’t rely on “I’ll believe it when I see it” anymore, and that single shift changes everything about crisis communication. When AI can generate convincing text, images, and video in minutes, your website stops being a nice-to-have and becomes a core piece of brand defense, public trust, and operational resilience. We sit down with Wes Towers, a digital marketing and website expert joining us from Melbourne, Australia to map out what’s changing and what still works. We talk about how AI-driven misinformation erodes credibility, why deepfakes raise the bar for proof, and how even ordinary business websites can become security liabilities. Wes explains the practical tradeoff between WordPress and other CMS platforms versus hard-coded sites, and why “less moving parts” can mean fewer vulnerabilities when threats accelerate. Then we get tactical about what to publish and how to structure it. We break down the trust signals that help real people and AI systems evaluate legitimacy: credentials, awards, recognizable client brands, reviews, and case studies that only you can tell. We also dig into crisis readiness, from the need for fast updates to why separate crisis websites can keep routine business functions running while stakeholders get the details they need. Along the way, we connect the dots between SEO and AI visibility, because the same clear, high-quality signals increasingly shape what large language models “know” about your organization. You can reach Wes at his company website: Uplift360.com.au #crisiscomms #crisiswebsites #crisiscommunications #crisisleadership #ai #crisismanagement Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

September 30, 2026Episode 9230 min

EP92 Persuasion that works: the power of storytelling with Josh Bandoch

Send us Fan Mail Your smartest plan can still fail if people don’t feel seen first. We sit down with persuasion expert and author Josh Bandoch to unpack what actually moves human beings to action, especially when emotions are running hot and the pressure is real. If you lead teams, handle crisis management, or communicate for a living, this conversation connects the dots between neuroscience, psychology, and practical leadership communication. We get into why great persuaders lead with emotional intelligence and why negativity bias makes fear and criticism “stick” more than reassurance. Josh explains the fastest way to lose trust in a crisis: telling people they shouldn’t feel what they feel, or ordering them to calm down. Instead, we talk through how to name emotions clearly, build common ground, and then pivot to a credible plan that keeps talented people from checking out or jumping ship. We also dig into persuasive storytelling, including what makes a story memorable and motivating, plus what Josh learned preparing his TEDx talk on how to be more persuasive. To close, we apply these ideas to election season and the line between persuasion and manipulation, with a simple filter for listening to candidates: do they feel authentic, and are they inviting shared action or trying to conquer the room? #crisiscommunications #crisiscomms #persuasion #crisismanagement #leadership #crisisleadership #storytelling If this helps you lead with more clarity and calm, subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, and leave a quick review so more leaders can find it. Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

September 24, 2026Episode 9125 min

EP91 Stranded in Antarctica - a medevac crisis, reintegration blues

Send us Fan Mail A doctor walks into the station leader’s office in Antarctica and asks a question no one wants to answer during a pandemic: “How would we evacuate someone right now?” With flights effectively off the table, scarce ships in the region, and weather as the ultimate gatekeeper, David Knoff faces a leadership test that turns crisis theory into cold, hard logistics. In Part 2 of our conversation with David Knoff, we talk through the Christmas Eve 2020 medevac that required international coordination from China, the USA, and Australia; runway construction, and contingency plans for everything from aircraft issues to overland rescue access. David breaks down what actually kept the team steady: a shared purpose everyone could understand, a deliberate decision to put key people on rest so they could peak when it mattered, and a practical approach he calls “delegating the worry.” Instead of one overwhelmed leader carrying every fear, clear roles and ownership turn anxiety into action. We also zoom out to the systems that make a response like this possible. David explains how monthly incident management drills create muscle memory, including training for secondary roles when the leader or doctor is off station. Then we shift to the human side: repatriation back to Australia after 18 months away, the culture shock of COVID-era airports and rules, and the quiet burnout that can hit when you’re finally “off duty” after a long stretch of responsibility. Along the way, we discuss David’s book 537 Days of Winter, why writing it was cathartic and unflinching, what he’s watching (yes, Alone), and how he’s researching his next leadership-focused book on operating in extreme environments. If you lead teams through uncertainty, you’ll leave with concrete lessons on crisis leadership, incident management, resilience, and recovery. Subscribe, share this with a leader who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Find David's book and connect with him via LinkedIn or his website, David.Knoff.com #crisismanagement #crisisleadership #crisiscomms #antarctica #resiliency #crisistraining #537daysofwinter Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

September 23, 2026Episode 9029 min

EP90 Stranded in Antarctica - a leadership test, with David Knoff

Send us Fan Mail When COVID hit, David Knoff was leading Australia’s Davis Station in Antarctica, expecting a one-year rotation with a predictable route home. What he got instead was a blunt message from headquarters: the mission is extended, the logistics are collapsing, and no one can promise a firm extraction date. If you’ve ever had to lead through uncertainty, this story lands hard because it strips crisis leadership down to the essentials. We talk about the leadership and coping challenges of being far from home, stranded, and unsure what the future might bring. This remote assignment is not so different from what astronauts experience and train for in space. And what do you do when one of your team stops coping with this impossible situation and gives up? David sheds light on how he and his team managed through that situation, tapping into his military and diplomatic experience. Then we get into the most human part of crisis management: what happens when one person stops coping. David explains how he and his leadership core respond, why the wider group matters more than a heavy-handed command approach, and how teams can recover after a low point. We get some fantastic leadership insights in this episode. Please like and subscribe. David's new book, 437 Days of Winter, is available at bookstores in Australia and New Zealand, and on Amazon in other countries. You can reach David through is website, DavidKnoff.com. #crisismanagement #crisisleadership #antarctica #crisiscomms #resiliency #crisistraining #537daysofwinter Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

July 22, 2026Episode 8923 min

EP89 Feeding the political and media machines during a crisis, with Chief Craig Covey

Send us Fan Mail When 50,000 people are evacuated, the emergency is only half the fight, the other half is the information. We pick up our conversation with Orange County Fire Authority Division Chief Craig Covey, a veteran incident commander, to unpack what really happens when a major response collides with nonstop public demand, intense media pressure, and elected officials who want to lead the narrative for their communities. The result can be a messy communications environment where accuracy, timing, and trust are on the line. We talk candidly about the “joint, unified information pipeline” and why going off script creates confusion for residents and unnecessary friction for responders. Covey explains how cooperator meetings and direct conversations can reset expectations, protect city managers from surprises, and keep updates clear and consistent across multiple impacted jurisdictions. You’ll also hear a practical leadership move that turns political attention into operational advantage: tasking elected leaders to push emergency declarations quickly, delivering relief for residents and opening the door to state and federal resources if conditions worsen. The episode goes deep on modern crisis communications tools and threats: the value of a single crisis website or pre-built “dark site,” the challenge of fragmented city messaging and social media, and how AI can help teams publish faster in multiple languages across diverse communities. Then we hit the unnerving part, a deepfake video that made Covey appear to speak fluent Vietnamese using his own briefing footage, and what that implies for misinformation during disasters. If you care about emergency management, public information officer best practices, incident command leadership, or crisis communication strategy, this conversation is loaded with field-tested lessons. Subscribe, share this with your favorite PIO or IC, and leave a review, then tell us: what’s the hardest part of keeping one trusted message during a crisis? #emergencymanagement #crisismanagement #crisiscommunications #ocfa #publicinformation #PIO Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

July 22, 2026Episode 8827 min

EP88 Leadership, humility and tough decision making in a crisis, with Chief Craig Covey

Send us Fan Mail One call can reshape an entire weekend, a city’s sense of safety, and the credibility of the people in charge. I’m joined by Orange County Fire Authority Division 1 Chief Craig Covey, a veteran incident commander with 32 years in the fire service, to talk through what it really feels like to make an evacuation decision when the stakes are massive and the information is still developing. We walk through the Garden Grove GKN chemical release and the real-world pressures behind ordering an evacuation impacting 40,000 to 50,000 residents plus thousands of businesses. Chief Covey explains how he weighs intel, leans on hazmat experts, and makes peace with a hard truth in crisis management: you cannot judge the decision by the outcome. Protecting the community has to come first, even when the economic and political pressure is intense. We also get practical about crisis communications. Chief Covey shares why he chose to speak plainly, often without notes, and how “just tell them the truth” became a north star for public updates. We dig into the Public Information Officer partnership, the challenge of social media misinformation, and the balancing act between media briefings and the Incident Command System planning cycle so operations keep moving while the public stays informed. If you care about emergency management, public safety leadership, or crisis communication best practices, this conversation delivers grounded lessons you can apply. Subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more incident commanders and PIOs can find it. #emergencymanagement #crisismanagement #crisiscommunications #ocfa #publicinformation #PIO Support the show We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.

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