The Leading Below the Surface Podcast with LaTonya Wilkins

Hosted by LaTonya Wilkins

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May 2026

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Honest conversations on grounded leadership, identity, and what it means to lead and coach below the surface. Hosted by LaTonya Wilkins — award-winning executive coach and author of Leading Below the Surface — this podcast goes beyond strategy and into the real work: who you are, how you lead, and what becomes possible when you start leading below the surface. For leaders, coaches, and anyone navigating growth with intention. Learn more at changecoaches.io. Subscribe to our bi-monthly newsletter at https://change-coaches.kit.com/profile

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May 27, 202649 min

Ep 68: HR Is Not Your Friend. Or Are They?

Is HR really your friend? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with two seasoned HR veterans, Turiya Gray (HR Unconfidential) and Krista Lane (HR Peep Show) for a candid, unfiltered conversation about what it really means to work in and with HR. From surprise performance reviews to AI-driven layoffs to the myth of the strategic seat at the table, they go below the surface on what HR is actually for, who holds the power, and what it looks like when HR leaders show up with courage.🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcastsEpisode Chapters & Key Moments[00:00] Is HR your friend? Setting the stage LaTonya shares what inspired this episode: layoffs, bad experiences, and a question she couldn't shake.[03:15] Introducing Turiya Gray, fractional CPO, 25+ years in HR From leading HR teams at tech companies to fractional work and why she's "over the HR profession."[05:00] Introducing Krista Lane,fractional HR for startups and nonprofits Why she got into fractional HR and what she means by "secretly not boring."[06:40] LaTonya's HR horror stories: A mentor who gave a surprise bad review. A senior leader who fast-tracked her then ghosted her. Sound familiar?[09:55] Performance reviews: the real story. Why surprises in reviews signal a broken system, misaligned incentives, and a culture of fear instead of growth.[10:00] Turiya's honest take: HR is not your friend. What HR should be and why conflating the role with friendship creates unrealistic expectations and real harm.[13:40] So who is HR actually for? Navigating the multi-spoke service model between company, leaders, and employees, and where the hierarchy really lives.[23:50] AI as a layoff excuse: myth or reality? Why Krista is skeptical that AI alone drives major workforce reductions, and what's actually going on under the hood.[28:50] The HR pushback problem: How effective HR leaders pressure-test business decisions and why too many roll over instead.[35:30] Coaching people out vs. pushing them out. Why LaTonya believes in coaching as an exit strategy, and what a more humane, low-friction separation actually looks like.[37:00] The PIP problem. Turiya's 50 questions. Why Turiya asks 49 questions about the manager before agreeing to put anyone on a performance improvement plan.[42:40] What grounded HR leadership really looks like. Values, courage, business acumen, and creativity and why the HR playbook is overdue for disruption.[48:00] Where to find Turiya and Krista Podcast links, events, and how to connect.Calls to Action🔹 Turiya Gray — HR Unconfidential Podcast (100th episode coming this summer!): https://www.linkedin.com/company/hr-unconfidential 🔹 Krista Lane — HR Peep Show Podcast + Headwaters HR: headwatershr.com 🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/ 🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches 🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

April 20, 202650 min

Ep 67: Who Are You, Really? Astrology, Identity & Grounded Leadership

What if the stars could help you understand your identity, your growth, and your next chapter? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins reunites with identity and belonging coach Erin Corine Johnson for a deeply personal and expansive conversation about astrology, decolonizing coaching, and what it really means to show up for yourself and others below the surface. Drawing from her own coaching journey and LaTonya's biggest life transitions, Erin unpacks how astrology can serve as a grounding tool for identity work, and what becomes possible when we stop letting capitalism define how we show up for each other.----Chapters[00:00] Welcome back & what's been happening at Change Coaches [03:15] Reintroducing Erin Corine Johnson — from Chicago to Spain [07:30] How LaTonya and Erin started working together [11:00] Astrology as a coaching tool — beyond the sun sign [16:20] Your big three: sun, moon, and rising explained [22:00] The lunar cycle and how to use it in your life and work [28:30] What leadership really is — and why it's both abstract and concrete [34:00] Decolonizing coaching — what it means and why it matters [40:15] Why capitalism is the only reason to gatekeep your care [46:00] No one is ever too much — a new coaching philosophy ⸻Learn More🔹 Erin Corine Johnson: https://identitybelongingcoach.com | https://holamagnolia.com/🔹 Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved program): https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/🔹 Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches🔹 LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcastsGet a free astrology birth chart here: https://www.chani.com/chart

March 11, 202649 min

Ep 66: Money Below the Surface: How Our Stories, Systems, And Nervous Systems Shape Financial Choices

What does your relationship with money really say about you — and the systems you were raised in? In this episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with financial coach and trainer Saundra Davis for a raw, wise, and deeply human conversation about money, trauma, and economic justice. Drawing from decades of experience at the intersection of financial coaching and economic justice, Saundra unpacks why so many people — especially people of color — struggle with money, and why that struggle has far less to do with personal failure than with systems designed to extract wealth from those least equipped to fight back. This episode offers compassion, clarity, and a reframe of what it truly means to build wealth.🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters:https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcastsEpisode Chapters & Key Moments[00:00] Intro & how LaTonya met Saundra at ICF ConvergeThe story behind the connection and what makes Saundra's work distinctAuntie energy and why it matters in financial coaching[04:30] Auntie energy, kinfolk, and the generational gapWhat it means to show up with warmth and zero judgmentBridging generational differences in how we talk about money[10:00] Music, community, and staying connected across generationsHow shared culture keeps us rootedThe role of community in financial healing[16:20] Growing up poor and the scarcity mindsetHow childhood environments shape our earliest money beliefsWhy scarcity thinking isn't a personal flaw — it's a survival response[21:00] How the environment creates our relationship with moneySystems, not character, create povertyWhy shame around money is a design feature, not a bug[26:45] Trauma, money, and two kids raised in the same houseHow the same circumstances can produce opposite money responsesWhy both responses make complete sense[31:30] Why people in poverty pay more — and the consumer trapPredatory credit, bank fees, and the true cost of being poorHow the financial system extracts wealth from those with the least[37:00] LaTonya's first car and what she was really buyingThe deeper emotional drivers behind financial decisionsWhy every purchase makes sense when you understand the belief behind it[43:00] Guilt, giving back, and the "Black tax" mythThe emotional weight of financial success in community-oriented culturesReframing obligation and generosity[49:15] Money in service of your goalsWealth-building as honoring those who came beforeShifting from scarcity to purpose-driven financial thinking[54:00] The Starbucks story — what are you really buying?You're never just buying the thingPeace, connection, identity, and belonging as real financial motivators[58:30] Where to start: resources, kindness, and next stepsPractical entry points for your financial journeyStarting with self-compassion, not self-criticismCalls to Action🔹 Learn more about Saundra Davis & Sage Financial Solutions:https://sagefinancialsolutions.org🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved):https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

February 2, 202618 min

Ep 65: Why Many Leaders and Coaches Feel Ready for Something Different

In this solo episode, LaTonya Wilkins explores a feeling many leaders, coaches, and consultants are quietly naming right now: the sense that traditional leadership frameworks and learning models no longer meet the complexity of today’s world.Drawing from recent client work, leadership development experience, and conversations across industries, LaTonya unpacks what’s no longer working, what leaders are truly craving, and why presence, trust, and community matter more than ever in this moment. This episode offers reflection prompts and a grounded invitation to consider how leadership and coaching must evolve beyond transactional approaches.🎥 Prefer to watch? This episode is also available on YouTube with chapters:https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcastsEpisode Chapters & Key Moments[00:00] Why leaders feel ready for something newNaming the collective feeling many leaders and coaches are experiencingWhy this isn’t burnout or lack of skill[02:45] What’s no longer working in leadership developmentThe limits of frameworks, checklists, and box solutionsWhy ROI-driven models fall short in today’s environment[07:20] The realities leaders are navigating right nowConstant reorganization, overload, and shifting expectationsWhat gets lost when everything becomes a priority[12:10] What leaders are actually cravingPresence, trust, hope, courage, and communityWhy adaptability alone isn’t enough[17:05] From information to experienceWhy information is no longer the currencyThe power of containers, practice, and self-authorship[22:30] Community at work and why it mattersThe role of connection, psychological safety, and belongingWhat happens when leaders don’t have space to process[27:40] What works at this stage of leadershipPresence as a practiceTrust built in real time through listening and empathy[32:10] Reflection questions for leaders and coachesWhat are you craving differently right now?What no longer works for you?[36:00] Coaching Below the Surface and what’s nextCreating containers for leaders and coachesUpcoming March 2026 pods and organizational offeringsCalls to Action🔹 Explore Coaching Below the Surface™ (ICF-approved):https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/🔹 Follow Change Coaches on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches🔹 Connect with LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/

January 27, 202643 min

Ep 64: Trauma-Informed Coaching—What It Is, and What We Often Get Wrong with Lion Goodman

What does it really mean to be trauma-informed—and why does this matter far beyond therapy? In this deeply personal and educational episode, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with Lion Goodman, coach, author, and founder of the Clear Beliefs Institute, who shares his incredible story of surviving being shot in the head four times—and how that life-altering moment shaped his approach to healing and leadership.Lion breaks down the difference between surface-level coaching and therapeutic coaching, how trauma shows up even in “successful” people, and how we can begin to unhook the past to truly move forward. Whether you’re a coach, a leader, or someone who wants to support others more skillfully, this conversation is rich, grounded, and unforgettable.🔗 Learn more about Coaching Below the Surface:https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/📲 Connect on LinkedIn:Change Coaches: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coachesLaTonya Wilkins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts📝 Timestamps + Summary[00:00] Welcome and how LaTonya met Lion GoodmanConnection at ICF Converge and why Lion’s work stood outMeaning behind the name “Lion” and his Leo identity[12:00] A near-death experience that changed everythingLion recounts being shot four times and survivingThe experience deepened his spiritual and professional journey[21:10] When coaching falls short without addressing traumaClients often loop when past wounds go unexaminedLion begins to integrate deeper healing techniques[28:20] What it means to unhook a beliefBeliefs are formed through experience, not logicMemory reconsolidation can rewrite core identity structures[38:00] Psychedelics and trauma workPowerful for deconstructing beliefs—but dangerous without integrationCoaches must be trained to guide responsibly[44:10] Coaching vs. therapy: how they overlap and differCoaches walk with you, but must know how to help offload traumaWhy trauma-informed doesn’t mean “doing therapy”[48:00] Common mistakes when talking about traumaOvergeneralizing what trauma is—or avoiding it altogetherCoaches need to clear their own trauma to avoid projection[51:30] Where to start with trauma-informed supportAsk “what’s underneath that?” to go deeperBe grounded, breathe, and avoid judgment when holding spaceTags: Trauma Informed Coaching, Lion Goodman, Therapeutic Coaching, Executive Coaching, LaTonya Wilkins, Leading Below the Surface, Coaching Below the Surface, Psychological Safety, Memory Reconsolidation, Coaching and Trauma, Psychedelic Integration, Clear Beliefs Method, Coaching Tools, Executive Development, Limiting Beliefs, ICF Accredited, Personal Growth, Coaching Conversations, Coaching Podcastand

January 7, 202629 min

Ep 63: How to Reflect on a Year of Quiet Growth — and Move Forward With Intention

Show NotesIn this episode of Leading Below the Surface, I reflect on the lessons that quietly shaped my year — not through big milestones or dramatic changes, but through slower growth, healing, and learning to listen more closely to my body and intuition.Rather than setting rigid goals, I share why I’ve been leaning into intentions and clarity, supported by science around behavior change, visualization, and motivation. We explore what it means to set “soft stretch” goals that are ambitious but achievable, why manic manifesting can actually work against us, and how progress often unfolds more slowly — and more sustainably — than we expect.I also talk openly about endings, healing, and the quiet shifts that signal real growth, even when it doesn’t look loud from the outside. This episode is an invitation to pause, reflect, and enter the next chapter with more intention and less urgency.If you’re someone who feels called to move forward thoughtfully — not frantically — this conversation is for you.This episode is also available on YouTube. You can watch and subscribe to the Leading Below the Surface Podcast on the Change Coaches YouTube channel, where we’re focusing our energy moving forward.Key Themes & TakeawaysWhy intentions can be more effective than rigid goal-settingThe science behind “soft stretch” goals and sustainable motivationHow visualizing challenges (not just success) supports real behavior changeThe difference between intentional growth and manic manifestingWhy the next step forward is often already in front of youHow endings create space for healing and clarityWhat quiet growth looks like — and why it still countsReflection Prompts from the EpisodeWhat is your body telling you that you may be overriding or ignoring?Where might you be forcing progress instead of allowing it to unfold?What endings — habits, roles, relationships, or expectations — may be asking for your attention?Listen, Watch, and Connect🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@changecoaches/podcasts🔗 Coaching Below the Surface: https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/🔗 Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coaches🔗 LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/🔗 Full Article on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-2025-taught-me-letting-go-healing-trust-latonya-wilkins-udscc

November 24, 202541 min

Ep 62: Breaking Dominant Leadership Standards: From Big Tech to Conscious Living with Executive Coach Kvon Tucker

PODCAST DESCRIPTIONIn this candid episode of Leading Below the Surface, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with executive coach and Consciously CEO Kvon Tucker to talk about what it really takes to break away from dominant leadership standards – especially inside big-name companies like Netflix, Amazon, and Google.Kvon shares how a suicidal depression in his late 20s became a turning point, why he ultimately walked away from a “dream” tech career, and how he and his family ended up in Costa Rica designing a more human, spiritually aligned life. Kvon unpacks the dangerous mix of hypergrowth, fear-based leadership, and ego-driven cultures – and what it looks like to lead consciously instead, in a way that centers love, liberation, and human wellbeing.This is a below the surface conversation about work, worth, ego, redemption, and the kind of leadership our world actually needs right now.EPISODE SUMMARYIn this conversation, we explore:How Kvon’s mental health crisis woke him up to a life and career he didn’t actually choose.His path through Netflix, Amazon, and Google – and what was really happening beneath the “best places to work” branding.The “dark triad” traits that often get rewarded in dominant leadership cultures, and why they’re so harmful.Hypergrowth vs. natural growth: why the pace that works for business often breaks human bodies.Three practices Kvon recommends for anyone who wants to lead more consciously: meditation, healing work (like therapy), and coaching.ABOUT OUR GUEST – KVON TUCKERKvon Tucker is an executive coach and the CEO of Consciously, a coaching and consulting company that helps leaders build more conscious, human-centered organizations. Before founding Consciously, he led manager and leadership development at companies including Netflix, Amazon, and Google. Today, Kvon coaches leaders around the world as they navigate identity shifts, burnout, and the desire to lead in a way that’s more aligned with their values, spiritual growth, and real life. He lives in Costa Rica with his wife and daughter.KEY INSIGHTSDominant leadership standards are often built on fear, hypergrowth, and ego – not love, wellness, or liberation.Big-name “dream companies” can simultaneously offer incredible opportunities and deeply misaligned cultures. Both can be true.Hypergrowth works for revenue, but it’s usually unsustainable for human nervous systems and family life.Many leaders are waking up to the fact that the path they’ve been on is no longer serving them – there’s a real shift in collective consciousness happening.Ego isn’t always “bad.” It can be redirected toward growth and impact when we’re aware of it and in relationship with it.You can’t be serious about liberation if you’re not serious about practices that help you know yourself – like meditation, therapy, and coaching.LEARN MORE:If this conversation resonated, here are a few ways to go deeper:Work with Kvon or learn more about his workWebsite: https://consciously.oneLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kvontuckerExplore Coaching Below the Surface (ICF-approved coach training)Learn more about the Coaching Below the Surface program and upcoming cohorts:https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/Work with LaTonya & Change CoachesLearn about keynotes, leadership development, and coaching for executives and teams:https://changecoaches.ioConnect with LaTonya & Change CoachesLaTonya on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/Change Coaches on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-coachesListen & follow the podcastFollow “Leading Below the Surface” wherever you listen to podcasts, and share this episode with someone who’s questioning dominant leadership standards or reevaluating their own path.

November 3, 202521 min

Ep 61: Webinar Replay —Grounded Leadership: Daily Mental Health Rituals for Uncertain Times

In this special replay of a Change Coaches Community Event, we explore how to stay mentally, emotionally, and physiologically grounded while leading in uncertain times.Blythe Landry — therapist, trauma specialist, and author of Trauma Intelligence — joins LaTonya to share real-world, accessible mental health practices that help leaders thrive without burning out.You’ll hear discussion, guidance, and tools rooted in science, nervous-system awareness, grief work, and Below the Surface leadership. We also uplift wisdom from the community members who joined live — demonstrating the power of connection and shared learning.This isn’t self-care theory. It’s practical, lived resilience for today’s world.Episode HighlightsWhy uncertainty fuels stress — and how leaders can respond with grounding, not urgencyThe role of micro-rest, boundaries, and intentional recoveryTools to reconnect with your body and calm your nervous systemEmotional hygiene habits and rituals to keep you steadyHow to support others without carrying their emotional loadThe restorative power of nature, community, and mindful movementWhat it looks like to lead like a human — not a machine Key Insights• Leaders can’t control chaos — but they can control rituals, structure, and presence• Nervous system literacy is leadership literacy• Rest isn’t indulgent — it’s strategic• Community care is a resilience multiplierAbout Today’s Guest: Blythe LandryBlythe Landry, MSW, MEd, LCSW, is a nationally recognized trauma and grief therapist, author of Trauma Intelligence, and founder of Grief to Purpose, a program supporting individuals healing from loss. She brings 25 years of experience helping people transform grief and adversity into grounded strength and connection.Learn more about Blythe at BlytheLandry.com🔗 Links & Resources• Learn about Coaching Below the Surface™https://changecoaches.io/coaching-below-the-surface/• Join our community events listhttps://changecoaches.io/community• Connect with LaTonya on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins/• Learn more about Change Coacheshttps://changecoaches.ioIf today’s conversation resonated, share it with someone who leads with heart and is navigating uncertainty.To deepen your practice and connect live with other values-driven leaders, join our community events list — we’d love to see you in the room next time.

October 6, 202544 min

Ep: 60: Everyday Mental Health Practices for Leadership and Life (with Dr. Caroline Adelman)

In a world that increasingly feels uncertain — and at times, broken — how do we stay grounded as leaders and human beings?In this powerful conversation, LaTonya Wilkins sits down with Dr. Caroline Adelman, clinical psychologist, coach, and founder of Chicago Psychotherapy, to explore what it truly means to lead and live well amid chaos. Together, they uncover how chronic stress, disconnection, and unpredictability shape our lives — and how we can rebuild connection through everyday mental health practices that actually work.Dr. Adelman shares evidence-based techniques rooted in therapy and neuroscience that help leaders regulate emotions, create stability, and bring real compassion into the workplace. Whether you’re leading a team, a business, or just trying to stay grounded yourself, this conversation offers practical wisdom for navigating a complex, broken world — one human moment at a time.Connection — not control — is the foundation of resilience.Stress disconnects us from ourselves, others, and what matters most; awareness and intention reconnect us.Leaders don’t need to have all the answers, but they do need to show care, humility, and hope.Simple rituals — listening, check-ins, walk-and-talks — can transform workplace wellbeing.Human-centered leadership is the antidote to fear-based systems.Dr. Caroline Adelman, PhD, is a clinical psychologist, coach, and founder of Chicago Psychotherapy. She completed her PhD at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and fellowships at the Yale Child Study Center. She previously served on the clinical faculty at Northwestern University and has spent over fifteen years helping children, adults, and professionals navigate anxiety, trauma, and transitions.Dr. Adelman’s work integrates evidence-based therapy with compassion, humor, and authenticity. She’s a frequent speaker and consultant on resilience, wellness, and leadership.To learn more, visit ChicagoPsychotherapy.com/dr-caroline-adelman. Resources MentionedLeading Below the Surface (2nd Edition): leadingbelowthesurface.comLaTonya’s article “The Relationship Between Psychological Safety and Accountability”: changecoaches.io/the-relationship-between-psychological-safety-and-accountability🎧 Listen & Subscribe: changecoaches.io/podcast🔗 Follow LaTonya Wilkins on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/latonyawilkins🔗 Follow Change Coaches: linkedin.com/company/change-coaches🌐 Learn more about our work: changecoaches.io

September 22, 202523 min

Ep 59: Dominant Leadership Standards: Why They’re Failing Us

Authoritarian, fear-based leadership might seem loud and everywhere—but that doesn’t mean it’s working. In this solo episode, LaTonya Wilkins, award-winning executive coach and author of Leading Below the Surface (second edition out Sept. 30), unpacks why dominant leadership standards—rigidity, perfectionism, and toxic meritocracy—are failing organizations today. Drawing on Chapter 2 of her book, LaTonya contrasts authoritarian and relational leadership, shares personal insights from the field, and explains why relational leadership is the future in an era of mental health challenges, AI disruption, and broken systems.She also teases upcoming guest conversations on mental health and conscious leadership. If you’ve been told to “toughen up” or “lead with fear” to get results, this episode will give you evidence, strategies, and courage to lead differently.Authoritarian leadership OwlCast episode referenced: SpotifyAppleKey Insights:Dominant leadership standards (rigidity, fear, optics) are outdated and erode innovation and psychological safety.Authoritarian leadership thrives on fear and appears louder than it is—but relational leadership creates sustainable performance.Relational leadership is essential as workplaces face unprecedented challenges and employees bring their whole selves to work.Situational leadership and coaching cultures are powerful relational tools that drive inclusion, collaboration, and trust.Sticking with relational leadership—even when pressured to adopt authoritarian tactics—pays off in alignment, creativity, and resilience.Let's Stay in Touch:Subscribe/Follow: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Change Coaches YouTube Channel to catch every episode.Leave a Review or Share: If this episode resonated, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and share it with a colleague or friend.Explore More: Visit LeadingBelowTheSurface.com and ChangeCoaches.io for book updates, keynotes, workshops, and coaching.Book Talks: Want a Leading Below the Surface book talk for your team? Email info@changecoaches.io to schedule—limited slots each month.Connect with LaTonya: LinkedIn — share your thoughts or let her know how relational leadership is showing up in your world.Next Episode Preview: Don’t miss next week’s conversation on Everyday Mental Health Practices for Leadership and Life—practical ways leaders can support wellness in a world that feels broken.