The Jabot

Hosted by Kathryn Rubino at Above the Law

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228

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Jul 2026

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About the show

We are an offshoot of the Above the Law legal blog. But we are focused on the challenges women, people of color, LGBTQIA, and other diverse populations face in the legal industry. Let's be real -- it can suck out there. So we want to create a space where our community can come together share stories, find support and devise strategies. Our name comes from none other than the Notorious Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the jabot (decorative collar) she wears when delivering dissents from the bench. It's a reminder that --even when we aren't winning, we're still a powerful force to be reckoned with.

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July 27, 2026Episode 22723 min

Building A Legal Practice That Fits Your Life

Summary Kara Maciel always knew she wanted to be a lawyer, and a high school trip to Washington, DC sealed the deal. What she didn't plan for was building her own firm. In this episode, the Conn, Maciel & Carey co-founder talks with Kathryn Rubino about the years she spent paying off law school loans early to buy herself flexibility, and how that discipline let her take a real risk later: leaving a comfortable partnership to start something new. The decision crystallized during back-to-back parental leaves, when Kara and her future co-founder each returned from leave with the same idea. Twelve years later, the firm has offices across the country, and Kara talks through what she wishes she'd known about the business side of running a firm, how she's used technology to standardize billing across offices, and why she believes boutique practice offers something Big Law structurally can't. Key Takeaways Paying down law school loans aggressively in your early career years buys flexibility later, not just debt relief. Opening a firm requires business skills most lawyers never learn in practice; hire for that gap or plan to learn it fast. Complementary practice areas and complementary skill sets among co-founders matter as much as shared values. Firm growth can be organic and still be strategic: expand where clients and trusted partners already are. Boutique firms compete on relationship and rate transparency, not just lower prices. Links and Resources [Above the Law](https://abovethelaw.com/) [The Jabot Podcast](https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/) Keywords boutique law firm, starting a law firm, employment law, labor law, law firm founder, women law firm owners, legal entrepreneurship, law school loans, law firm culture, law firm growth, big law versus boutique, workplace safety law, law firm billing, legal technology, AI in law firms, law firm partnership, career advice for lawyers, women in law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast Episode Highlights [00:01:15 - 00:02:00] Kara traces her decision to become a lawyer back to a high school trip to Washington, DC. [00:04:15 - 00:05:00] Why she saved aggressively in her first years of practice instead of spending like a typical young associate. [00:08:00 - 00:09:30] The maternity leave story behind founding Conn, Maciel & Carey. [00:10:30 - 00:11:30] "You're a lawyer, you know how to make rain, but you don't know how to run a business." [00:13:15 - 00:14:45] How the firm's California and Midwest offices came together through existing relationships, not a strategic plan. [00:17:00 - 00:18:30] Why the firm runs a deliberately long hiring process to protect its culture. [00:19:15 - 00:20:15] What boutique practice offers that Big Law structurally can't: rate control and direct client relationships. [00:21:00 - 00:22:00] How the firm is using AI to standardize timekeeping and billing across offices.

July 24, 2026Episode 22628 min

The Battle To Protect Ethical Prosecutors

Summary Iris Eytan didn't set out to become a criminal defense lawyer. She went to law school to help people as a mental health advocate, then followed her clients from shuttered psychiatric institutions into the jails and prisons where many of them ended up. What started as constitutional work in its most human form eventually became decades of criminal defense, including two cases she calls her bookends: a jail deputy wrongfully accused of murdering his wife, and Barry Morphew, a case that exposed how far some prosecutors will go to protect a conviction. Those cases pushed Iris to found Protect Ethical Prosecutors, a reform campaign aimed at ending prosecutorial misconduct. In this conversation, she and Kathryn Rubino talk through the scale of the problem, why prosecutors are effectively immune from civil suits, and why the legal profession's self-policing system keeps failing the people it's supposed to protect. Key Takeaways Nearly 4,000 documented exonerations exist in the US, and more than one in three involved prosecutorial misconduct like hiding evidence of innocence. A 1976 Supreme Court case, Imbler v. Pachtman, gave prosecutors absolute immunity from civil lawsuits, even for intentional or reckless misconduct. Fewer than 2% of prosecutors tied to wrongful convictions have ever faced employment discipline or bar sanctions, and almost none have faced criminal charges. Self-policing fails because judges, defense lawyers, and even fellow prosecutors are reluctant to report misconduct within a system they all depend on. Iris founded PEP to push for an independent oversight commission with real enforcement power, not just recommendations. Links and Resources [Above the Law](https://abovethelaw.com/) [The Jabot Podcast](https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/) Keywords prosecutorial misconduct, Protect Ethical Prosecutors, PEP, Iris Eytan, prosecutorial immunity, Imbler v. Pachtman, wrongful conviction, exonerations, Brady violation, criminal defense lawyer, public defender, Barry Morphew, criminal justice reform, attorney regulation, legal ethics, civil rights law, ADA, mental health law, accountability in prosecution, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast Episode Highlights [00:00:35 - 00:01:45] Iris describes seeing a young lawyer advocate for a psychiatric patient, the moment that redirected her career. [00:03:30 - 00:04:15] Why the closure of mental health institutions pushed her clients into jails and prisons, and pushed her into public defense. [00:07:30 - 00:08:30] "I was shocked when I encountered prosecutors who wanted to win more than do the right thing and broke the law." [00:10:00 - 00:11:30] The email that proved a DA knew a death was a suicide, filed years after clearing it, then charged the husband with murder anyway. [00:13:00 - 00:14:15] How prosecutors in the Morphew case hid DNA evidence pointing to other suspects. [00:16:45 - 00:17:30] Nearly 4,000 documented exonerations, with an estimated 100,000 more innocent people still in prison. [00:19:15 - 00:20:15] How the Imbler decision made prosecutors the only legal professionals who cannot be sued for misconduct. [00:21:30 - 00:22:45] The Deb Nichols case: a 17-year-old murder conviction unraveling over a hidden arson report. [00:25:45 - 00:26:45] Why an independent commission, not more reminders to follow the rules, is the fix Iris is pushing for

July 22, 2026Episode 22524 min

Biglaw Partner Dishes On Her Unique Path To Partnership

Summary Gloria Park always wanted to be a storyteller. She just didn't expect to find that career in litigation. In this episode, the Susman Godfrey partner talks with Kathryn Rubino about growing up in a first-generation immigrant family, choosing law school because it let her "tell stories for a living," and the mantra, why not me, that carried her through six tough years as an associate to partnership. They cover what actually separates strong litigators (hint: it's not the closing argument), why Park chose a litigation-only boutique that hires exclusively from federal clerkships, and how she balances high-stakes cases with church, choir, and a new kickboxing habit. Park also shares her most memorable war story: taking her first deposition eight weeks into practice, alone, against a firm's global head of litigation. Key Takeaways Litigation is storytelling within strict limits: the facts don't move, but how you frame them does. A "why not me" mindset can replace the imposter syndrome that comes with being the first in your family in Big Law. Attention to detail, not courtroom theatrics, is what actually separates strong litigators. Susman Godfrey hires only federal law clerks, which gives its litigators a shared foundation and an edge in the courtroom. Pro bono work outside your paying caseload can sharpen your skills as a litigator, not just your firm's PR Links and Resources [Above the Law](https://abovethelaw.com/) [The Jabot Podcast](https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/) Keywords Big Law partnership, litigation career, Susman Godfrey, federal clerkship, first-generation lawyer, women in law, litigation boutique, associate to partner, legal storytelling, deposition tips, pro bono litigation, work-life balance lawyer, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, career advice for lawyers, patent litigation, jury trial strategy, law school advice, big law culture, legal career path Episode Highlights [00:00:35 - 00:01:15] Gloria explains why storytelling, not the law itself, drew her to law school. [00:03:45 - 00:04:30] "Facts are facts. You can't really change it," but there's always a way to frame them accurately. [00:06:45 - 00:07:15] The "why not me" mantra that got Gloria through Big Law without a family roadmap. [00:08:45 - 00:09:15] Why attention to detail, not theatrics, makes a strong litigator. [00:11:15 - 00:12:15] Why Gloria chose a litigation-only boutique over a full-service firm. [00:16:15 - 00:17:30] Gloria's first deposition, taken alone eight weeks into her career. [00:19:00 - 00:20:15] How church, choir, and kickboxing keep Gloria grounded. [00:20:45 - 00:22:00] The pro bono case representing the parents of a girl who died in CBP custody. [00:23:35 - 00:24:20] Gloria's advice: "Go for it. Have that why not me mentality."

July 17, 2026Episode 22425 min

What Nobody Tells You About Law School

Summary Shaun Ossei-Owusu didn't go to law school to become a lawyer. After a PhD in African American Studies at Berkeley and a fellowship at the American Bar Foundation, he wanted the technical language of law so he could translate what he'd already been studying: how the legal system actually treats people, versus how it says it does. That instinct became his new book, "Law on Trial." In this conversation, Kathryn Rubino and Ossei-Owusu dig into what "thinking like a lawyer" costs, from law school curricula that leave out issues like civil asset forfeiture, to big law and government lawyering, where the pressure to win can crowd out the question of whether winning was the right outcome. They close with practical advice for lawyers trying to stay honest with themselves about the trade-offs they're making. Key Takeaways Legal training builds what Ossei-Owusu calls a "tragically necessary skill": separating law from moral and social context. It's useful, and it's also easy to overcorrect. Core law school subjects often skip the inequality issues baked into them. Property class rarely covers civil asset forfeiture, even though it's a bigger part of practice than most casebooks suggest. Big law economics can quietly work against legitimate discrimination claims, not just frivolous ones, because of who's paying the bill. City and county law departments face a similar tension: they enforce consumer and housing protections while also defending against civil rights claims brought under the same kinds of laws. Lawyers can protect their values by setting ethical red lines before financial pressure sets in, not after. Links and Resources Above the Law The Jabot Podcast Law on Trial: An Unlikely Insider Reckons with Our Legal System (W.W. Norton) Law on Trial on Amazon Keywords legal education, law school, thinking like a lawyer, legal ethics, big law, public interest law, civil asset forfeiture, law professor, legal academia, Shaun Ossei-Owusu, Law on Trial, University of Pennsylvania, legal profession, government lawyers, municipal law departments, law firm culture, first-generation lawyers, social justice law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast Episode Highlights [00:00:49 - 00:04:20] Ossei-Owusu explains his winding path from the Bronx to a PhD to law school. [00:04:56 - 00:06:51] Why mentoring future lawyers, including those headed to big law, matters to him. [00:06:51 - 00:08:35] The gap in law school literature that inspired Law on Trial. [00:10:46 - 00:13:19] What "thinking like a lawyer" really means, and its necessary trade-offs. [00:13:19 - 00:14:33] The civil asset forfeiture example most property classes skip. [00:15:50 - 00:17:35] How big law economics can quietly undermine legitimate discrimination claims. [00:17:35 - 00:19:16] The civil rights tension inside city and county law departments. [00:20:04 - 00:22:20] Practical advice for lawyers weighing big law against their values. [00:22:20 - 00:24:01] Why ethical red lines matter more than good intentions.

July 15, 2026Episode 22325 min

The Link Between Financial Literacy and Social Justice

Summary Courtney Teasley, a criminal trial attorney turned certified business coach, author, and speaker, joins Kathryn Rubino to talk about the case that shaped her career: her own mother's, overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user. Courtney traces how that experience, and a mentor who built a practice on her own terms, pushed her into criminal defense and, eventually, out of full-time practice. The conversation covers why she left the courtroom for coaching and advocacy work, the business lessons law school never taught her, and how her book series, The Easy Way to Learn Your Rights, translates legal literacy into plain, bilingual language for the people who need it most. Key Takeaways Courtney traces her path to criminal defense directly back to her mother being overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user, a decision that shaped how she practices and teaches law. The pressure of high-stakes cases never fully disappears; the lawyers who care the most are the ones who keep showing up despite it. Courtney left full-time practice after realizing one-on-one casework moves too slowly to shift the systemic patterns behind mass incarceration. A CliftonStrengths certification helped Courtney separate her zone of excellence, practicing law, from her zone of genius, teaching and advocacy. Courtney built her book series and coaching practice around plain, bilingual language, arguing legal jargon keeps clients from understanding their own cases. Links and Resources Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/ The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/ Courtney Teasley: https://site-hy4wms4ce.godaddysites.com/ Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com Keywords criminal defense attorney, legal literacy, financial literacy, social justice, business coaching for lawyers, women in law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, DAMM community, CliftonStrengths, legal entrepreneurship, law practice management, systemic inequality, mass incarceration, career change for lawyers, Black lawyers, legal author, criminal justice reform, pro se litigants, elbow counsel Episode Highlights [00:01:00-00:02:00] Courtney explains how one visit to a hospital as a teenager ended her plan to become a doctor and pointed her toward law instead. [00:02:00-00:03:00] Courtney traces her path to criminal defense back to her mother being overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user. [00:09:00-00:11:00] Courtney describes using a CliftonStrengths certification to find her zone of genius outside of practicing law. [00:12:00-00:14:00] Courtney says the biggest surprise of leaving practice was realizing how few lawyers run their firms like real businesses. [00:17:00-00:19:00] Courtney explains why she built her own intellectual property in plain, bilingual language instead of legal jargon. [00:20:00-00:22:00] Courtney lays out how clients can act as elbow counsel to their own lawyers without going fully pro se. [00:22:00-00:24:00] Courtney's advice for lawyers who want to build a business and keep their ethical grounding at the same time.

July 13, 2026Episode 22222 min

What It Takes for Women to Break Through in Litigation

Summary Kelly Grigsby Jones and Laurie Avery, litigation partners at Perez Morris, sit down with Kathryn Rubino to talk about building a career in trial work. They trace their paths into law, the gap between courtroom TV and courtroom reality, and how they've made an unpredictable schedule sustainable over decades of practice. The conversation turns practical: how young lawyers can get their first real trial experience, what mentors actually look for in an associate, and how to handle a case when the best exhibit goes missing mid-trial. Both partners share candid advice for women navigating litigation, plus the one habit they say matters more than talent: preparation. Key Takeaways Early trial experience often comes from smaller markets or litigation-heavy firms willing to hand associates low-stakes cases to learn on. Being proactive, not waiting to be asked, is what separates associates who get pulled into bigger opportunities from those who don't. Preparation is the one thing a lawyer can fully control, even when the outcome, a missing exhibit or a directed verdict, isn't. Good mentors highlight a mentee's strengths and give honest, respectful redirection when trial work isn't the right fit. A sustainable trial career means accepting an uneven schedule: early some days, late into the night on others. Links and Resources Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/ The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/ Perez Morris: https://www.perezmorris.com/ Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com Keywords women in litigation, trial lawyers, legal career advice, Perez Morris, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, women in law, litigation partners, trial experience, first chair, second chair, mentorship in law, law firm associates, courtroom preparation, women trial attorneys, legal industry podcast, career in law, litigation career path, women partners law firm, trial advocacy Episode Highlights [00:01:00-00:02:00] Laurie explains how a dismissive comment from a colleague, "you don't need to know that," pushed her toward law school. [00:07:00-00:09:00] Kelly describes jumping into plea deals and bond hearings early because her rural county had few attorneys to go around. [00:10:00-00:12:00] Kelly recounts winging cross-examination after showing up to trial without her one key exhibit. [00:12:00-00:13:00] Laurie tells the story of winning a directed verdict in seconds after weeks of preparation. [00:16:00-00:17:00] Kelly explains why she calls junior lawyers "colleagues," not associates, in front of clients. [00:19:00-00:20:00] Laurie draws the line between lawyers built for first chair and those who thrive in second chair. [00:22:00-00:23:00] Kelly and Laurie each give their one piece of advice for lawyers starting out in trial work.

July 6, 2026Episode 22123 min

What Lawyers Really Need To Know About Marketing

Summary Kathryn Rubino sits down with Deborah Farone, one of the most experienced legal marketing and business development advisors in the country, to dig into what actually drives sustainable practice growth. Farone traces her career from a PR firm handling Milbank's account in the 1990s through Chief Marketing Officer roles at Debevoise and Cravath, to running her own advisory practice today. The conversation covers what big law gets wrong about business development, why existing clients are the most overlooked growth lever, how law firms are finally starting to teach associates what was once left unspoken, and what it really means for women lawyers to develop business on their own terms. Farone also addresses the industry's consolidation wave, the squeeze on mid-size firms, and why the biggest strategic risk for any law firm right now is standing still. Key Takeaways Business development starts with strategy, not tactics. Know where you want to go before you pick any tool or activity. Most business comes from existing clients. Growing those relationships and getting referrals from them is more powerful than chasing new names. The minders/finders/grinders model is outdated. Every lawyer at every level is now expected to develop business in some form. Women who build thriving practices do it in ways that feel authentic to them — opera evenings, hikes with clients — not by mimicking someone else's playbook. The biggest risk for any law firm is complacency. GCs want firms to come to them with intelligence and AI guidance, not the other way around. Links and Resources • Above the Law • The Jabot Podcast • Farone Advisors • Breaking Ground: How Successful Women Lawyers Build Thriving Practices — Deborah Farone Keywords legal marketing, business development for lawyers, law firm marketing strategy, women lawyers business development, Deborah Farone, Breaking Ground book, legal rainmakers, origination credit, law firm business development, boutique law firms, big law marketing, Jabot podcast, Above the Law podcast, legal operations, law firm growth, existing clients strategy, authentic networking lawyers, law firm compensation, mid-size law firms, GC relationships Episode Highlights [00:01:00 — 00:01:25] Deborah explains why working on the Milbank PR account made her want to move into legal marketing full-time. [00:02:16 — 00:02:57] How BD at Cravath included running a competitive intelligence unit to track potential new matters, something she couldn't have predicted 30 years earlier. [00:05:43 — 00:06:09] Why law schools are finally teaching business development, and what a class at Columbia Law looked like. [00:07:07 — 00:07:51] The counterintuitive truth: your best source of new business is the clients you already have, not the shiny new prospect. [00:09:07 — 00:09:56] Deborah's case for why developing a book of business is like putting money in the bank, and why it gives women lawyers more freedom and mobility. [00:10:42 — 00:11:41] The authentic BD methods of successful women lawyers: opera evenings with clients in Milan, group hiking trips, anything that feels genuine. [00:17:45 — 00:18:42] The squeeze on mid-size firms: not niche enough, not global enough, and often without the marketing resources to compete. [00:19:28 — 00:19:54] Dan Troy's line: "You can't be Wachtell in every practice." Why trying to be everything to everyone destroys credibility with clients. [00:21:25 — 00:22:18] GCs don't want to be the ones telling their law firms what legal trends are. They want their firms to come to them with intelligence and AI guidance.

June 29, 2026Episode 22030 min

Medicine's Monopoly Problem

Episode Summary Tahir Amin started out wanting to play professional football in England. He found law instead, and specifically intellectual property law in the early 1990s, when the field was still new enough to feel cutting edge. After a decade of commercial IP practice in the UK and the US, he moved to India in 2004 to understand what the new global IP rules were doing to the people they never accounted for. He arrived just as India was being required to comply with WTO patent rules that would affect access to HIV medicines costing tens of thousands of dollars a year. That experience led him to co-found I-MAK in 2006. In this conversation, Amin walks Rubino through the political economy of drug patents: how neoliberal policy from the late 1970s onward handed control of publicly funded research to private companies, how those companies built out sprawling patent portfolios to delay generic competition, and how the word "innovation" became a shield against any real scrutiny. He also talks about what I-MAK's work has achieved, the blowback it has faced, and why he considers himself a "cynical optimist" who believes the long game is the only game worth playing. Key Takeaways Patent stacking is the norm, not the exception. Novo Nordisk filed more than 320 patent applications around the single active ingredient in the Ozempic family of drugs. 1 in 3 Americans are skipping doses or cutting pills to afford their medications. This is a policy problem rooted in decisions made over the past four decades. The word "innovation" replaced "invention" deliberately around 1976–77, allowing corporations to privatize public-funded knowledge and charge rent for it. I-MAK's public patent database puts the evidence on the table. The pharma industry attacks the messenger rather than engaging the data. Incrementalism is the system's release valve. Real change requires playing the long game, not chasing the next quick win. Links & Resources Above the Law The Jabot Podcast Tahir Amin at I-MAK Pharma Monopoly: The Battle for the Future of Medicines by Tahir Amin (book) Keywords pharmaceutical patents, drug pricing, patent monopoly, medicine access, IP law, I-MAK, Tahir Amin, patent stacking, Ozempic patents, Novo Nordisk, innovation myth, neoliberalism, affordable medicine, generic drugs, biosimilars, patent reform, WTO patent law, drug affordability, pharma policy, Jabot podcast Episode Highlights 00:08:18 - 00:09:16 Amin explains the founding of I-MAC and the need to challenge systems treating public knowledge as monopoly property. 00:12:49 - 00:13:33 The survey data: 1 in 3 Americans are skipping or rationing medications, a Western problem as much as a global one. 00:16:12 - 00:16:55 Novo Nordisk's 320+ patent applications on the Ozempic active ingredient, and how that data changed the Congressional conversation. 00:21:52 - 00:24:54 The linguistic shift from "invention" to "innovation" after the late 1970s, and why the distinction matters for policy. 00:30:27 - 00:31:32 Why incrementalism is the system's release valve, and the case for committing to real, structural change over the long run.

June 27, 2026Episode 21926 min

Building A Judicial Legacy

Episode Summary Judge Nushin Sayfie traces her path from a fifth-grade classroom where a teacher named her attorney general, to 14 years defending clients who couldn't afford a lawyer, to the bench of Florida's 11th Judicial Circuit. She talks with Kathryn Rubino about what she gave up to become a judge, what she has never stopped missing, and what finally pushed her to apply for a vacancy she hadn't planned on. She's direct about the realities most judicial candidates don't advertise: the pressure of running for election, the vulnerability of every public decision, and the steep learning curve of developing the thick skin the job demands. On women in law, she's equally clear. The numbers at the top still don't reflect what's happening in law school classrooms, and that gap doesn't close without honest conversation and real mentorship. Key Takeaways The move from trial lawyer to judge means trading the high of winning for a different kind of authority. Most honest judges will tell you they miss it. Florida's system of judicial elections creates genuine pressure on sitting judges. Any judge who claims otherwise has probably already decided to retire. Preparation is irreplaceable. No natural talent substitutes for doing the work, and that's as true in the courtroom as anywhere. Mentorship isn't optional. It's one of the clearest predictors of who makes it to the top of the profession, especially for women. 'Use the robe.' Authority doesn't require volume. The most effective leaders in any room are the ones who bring the temperature down. Links and Resources Above the Law The Jabot Podcast Keywords Judge Nushin Sayfie, The Jabot Podcast, Kathryn Rubino, women in law, public defender, judicial career, Florida judge, Chief Judge, 11th Judicial Circuit, legal mentorship, judicial elections, trial lawyer, women in leadership, legal career advice, Above the Law, courtroom experience, legal profession, women attorneys, judicial temperament, work-life balance in law Episode Highlights [00:00:24 - 00:01:36] Judge Sayfie traces her interest in law to a fifth-grade teacher who named her attorney general of the class government. [00:02:10 - 00:04:17] On 14 years as a public defender, and why defending people who couldn't afford a lawyer felt like the right fit. [00:04:29 - 00:06:04] The baptism conversation that led to an unexpected application for a judicial vacancy, decided on the drive home. [00:07:54 - 00:09:09] On the unique high of winning as a trial lawyer, and what it's like to sit on the other side of that feeling. [00:09:47 - 00:11:08] On developing thick skin, making decisions under public scrutiny, and why judges who avoid deciding are failing. [00:13:30 - 00:16:31] On running for judicial election in Florida and surviving unfair media coverage as Chief Judge. [00:17:31 - 00:18:03] On women still not reaching the top despite filling more than half of law school seats across the country. [00:22:05 - 00:24:05] The death penalty war story: a client who refused to testify mid-trial, dismantling months of case preparation. [00:25:17 - 00:26:16] On being the calming presence in any room: 'Use the robe. Don't raise your voice.'

March 13, 2026Episode 21826 min

This Harvard Law School Grad Has The Progressive Answer To FedSoc

Episode Summary In this episode of the Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino speaks with Molly Coleman, Executive Director of the People's Parity Project (PPP) and newly elected St. Paul City Council member, about organizing within the legal profession and redefining the role lawyers play in democracy. Coleman shares how her early work in public education inspired her to pursue law as a tool for systemic change, and how the People's Parity Project grew from a small group of law students into a national organizing force challenging corporate power, forced arbitration, and inequities embedded within the legal system. The conversation explores the ideological shaping of law students, the long-term influence of legal movements, and the importance of building alternative pathways for lawyers who want to advance social and economic justice. Coleman also reflects on organizing during political crisis, the limits of courts as vehicles for change, and why community action — not institutions alone — ultimately drives democratic resilience. This episode offers a candid look at legal activism, professional responsibility, and what it means for lawyers to engage both inside and outside systems of power. Links & Resources Home - People's Parity Project Keywords People's Parity Project Molly Coleman Legal organizing Law student activism Legal profession reform Forced arbitration Non-disclosure agreements Legal activism Democracy and law Popular constitutionalism Legal organizing movements Corporate power and law Lawyers and social change Legal education reform Political organizing Community lawyering Judicial power Legal profession ideology Public interest law Law and democracy Episode Highlights 00:04–00:26 - Molly Coleman's path from public education to law school 00:26–01:50 - Seeking systemic change beyond direct service work 01:50–03:14 - Law school expectations versus institutional realities 03:14–04:23 - The Me Too movement and the origins of the People's Parity Project 04:23–05:24 - Early organizing against forced arbitration and NDAs 05:24–07:08 - Social media organizing and unexpected influence on Big Law 07:08–08:53 - How PPP evolved from a student project into a national organization 08:53–11:27 - Ideological shaping of law students and counterbalancing dominant narratives 11:27–12:53 - Why organizing lawyers matters for long-term political change 12:53–15:40 - Misconceptions about the political ideology of the legal profession 15:40–17:55 - Political pressures on law firms and the profession's shifting landscape 17:55–19:18 - Crisis in Minnesota and limits of relying on courts for protection 19:18–20:16 - Popular constitutionalism and people-powered resistance 20:16–22:33 - How lawyers can contribute during political and social crises 22:33–24:23 - Transitioning from organizer to elected official 24:23–26:27 - The future of legal organizing and building democratic resilience

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Building A Legal Practice That Fits Your Life

The Battle To Protect Ethical Prosecutors

Biglaw Partner Dishes On Her Unique Path To Partnership

What Nobody Tells You About Law School

The Link Between Financial Literacy and Social Justice

What It Takes for Women to Break Through in Litigation

What Lawyers Really Need To Know About Marketing

Medicine's Monopoly Problem

Building A Judicial Legacy

This Harvard Law School Grad Has The Progressive Answer To FedSoc

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