The Immortal Life of Agencies

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Jun 2026

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Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency? Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’. Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby. Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.

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June 16, 202636 min

Main Character's Co-Founders: Making the impossible happen – Courtney Worthman & Stacey Gersten

Today’s guests are Courtney Worthman and Stacey Gersten, Co-Founders of Main Character, the celebrity partnership specialists helping brands stop buying celebrities and start buying into culture.Drawing on two decades of experience across entertainment, advertising and PR, Courtney and Stacey explain why moving ‘at the speed of culture’ has become a practical necessity and how building celebrity partnerships has evolved into a quantitative science.We explore the balance between data and instinct, the realities of managing dynamic stakeholder relationships, and how brands discern the right cultural moments.This is a modern, practical conversation about culture, influence and the changing role of celebrity in brand communications.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:26] Main Character’s origin story[07:15] Being audience first[10:11] Thinking in calendars[13:42] Making ideas executable[16:51] Pulling the right levers[19:03] The science behind celebrity[27:05] Brands as entertainment studios[30:09] An easy way to yes[32:10] Brand to brand partnershipsMORE ABOUT COURTNEY & STACEY:LinkedIn (Courtney): linkedin.com/in/courtney-worthmanLinkedIn (Stacey): linkedin.com/in/stacey-gerstenWebsite: main-character.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

June 9, 202638 min

Bakery Agency's CEO: What clients don’t understand about indies – Micky Ogando

Today’s guest is Micky Ogando, CEO and Chief Creative Officer of the 80-person, Austin-based independent creative agency, Bakery.Unpacking the trend of big brands choosing indies, Micky explains why many clients misunderstand what they’re actually buying when they swap HoldCo. polish for opinionated misfits, and how this friction can be channeled into better work.The conversation also covers how Bakery vets potential clients and when agency owners should evolve beyond improvising in their early days and start really focusing on what they're really good at.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:35] Starting without a blueprint[05:44] Misconceptions about indies[07:54] Independent versus small[11:41] Scale with minimal friction[16:24] Vetting process on both sides[21:08] Limits of improvisation[22:26] The He-Man strategy[23:51] Avoiding the Abilene paradox[25:51] The Michelin star mindset[29:43] Taste, criteria, standards and craftMORE ABOUT MICKY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mickyogandoWebsite: bakery.agencyMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Agency Galaxyhttps://thecultish.substack.com/p/a-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-agencyHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

June 2, 202640 min

Eidra's Co-CEO: How pragmatism drives growth – Måns Hosk

Today’s guest is Måns Hosk, Co-CEO of Eidra, the Swedish consultancy collective that’s grown from five founding businesses into a 1,500-person organisation spanning Europe and the US.Måns shares how Eidra was built around a simple idea: modern client challenges rarely fit neatly into a single discipline. He explains how strategy, creativity, technology, data and AI have been brought together to solve broader business problems, while maintaining the specialist expertise clients still value.The conversation explores what integration looks like in practice, why overwhelming clients with capability is rarely effective, and how Eidra’s ‘bring a friend’ approach has helped build deeper, more valuable relationships.Måns also reflects on AI, organisational change, and why Scandinavian values such as collaboration, pragmatism and humility have become important advantages.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:38] What is Eidra?[08:06] All about solidarity[11:05] The challenges of integration[12:54] Applying pragmatism[16:06] Starting with transformation[21:11] Bring a friend approach[30:36] New superstars vs obsolescence[31:46] The Scandinavian advantage[35:07] Eidra’s next chapterMORE ABOUT MÅNS HOSK:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/m%C3%A5ns-jacobsson-hosk-9123044/Website: eidra.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

May 19, 202648 min

Huge's CEO: When everything changes all at once – Josh Campo

Today’s guest is Josh Campo, CEO of Huge. And if you think your to-do list is long, you might need to reconsider.On top of the wider market disruption, Josh is overseeing all manner of change – still fresh from exiting IPG, Huge is navigating PE-ownership, integrating with Hero Digital and continuing its productisation journey.On the integration with Hero, he explains why successful integration requires a complete rebirth of culture, not just simply blending two organisations together.Pragmatic, candid and optimistic throughout, Josh also explores Huge’s much discussed productisation journey, the decline of time-based pricing, and why agencies must move beyond selling “done” and focus instead on outcomes, speed and commercial value.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:37] Navigating four transformations[04:07] Rebirth of culture[06:56] Rebuilding from common ground[11:20] Delivering on the promise[15:50] Why productisation matters[22:26] The declining value of ‘done’[30:08] A future without timesheets[31:33] Procurement needs a new story[37:30] The future belongs to excellence[42:02] Speed is of the essenceMORE ABOUT JOSH:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshcampoWebsite: hugeinc.comMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:Madison Avenue Makeover: The transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business: amazon.com/Madison-Avenue-Makeover-transformation-redefinitionHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

May 12, 202645 min

Koto’s CEO: How client-centricity drives growth – James Greenfield

Today’s guest is James Greenfield, Co-Founder and CEO of Koto, the globally recognised branding agency working with companies like Netflix, Spotify and Google.James explains how listening closely to client needs has shaped the agency’s evolution, remaining anchored in brand, but also delivering high quality campaigns and digital products.The conversation also explores how Koto’s buyer landscape is changing, with CEOs now far more involved in decisions traditionally owned by marketing teams. James unpacks the growing importance of consistency across fragmented customer journeys, and why brand increasingly plays a central organising role.Alongside this, he reflects on leadership, creativity and the discipline required to move from practitioner to CEO, offering a clear and optimistic vision for how agencies evolve.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:04] How client-centricity drives growth[07:02] Changes in how clients buy[11:04] Why brand drives survival[14:37] Internal versus external reality[16:39] The cobbler’s children problem[19:28] Three pillars of Koto[21:54] Closing the execution gap[27:12] Qualifying the right clients[30:20] How AI supports not replaces[38:51] Life as a CEO[40:50] Creativity over quarterly numbersMORE ABOUT JAMES:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-greenfieldWebsite: koto.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

April 28, 202644 min

Parakeeto's CEO: The simplest path to profit – Marcel Petitpas

Today’s guest is Marcel Petitpas, CEO of Parakeeto – the agency profitability specialists. He brings a clear and often counterintuitive perspective on how agencies actually make money.Marcel challenges one of the industry’s most deeply held assumptions, arguing that most agencies don’t have a revenue problem, they have an operational one. Through the lens of what he calls “indigestion, not starvation”, he explains why growth alone rarely fixes profitability, and how flawed frameworks around utilisation, margin and pricing continue to hold agencies back.The conversation explores the shift away from time-based billing, unpacking how abstraction, risk and value shape modern pricing models. Marcel also demystifies value-based pricing, highlighting why Finance shouldn’t be leading and what it really takes to command a premium with sophisticated buyers.Grounded, practical and refreshingly direct, this episode offers a sharper way to think about sustainable profitability.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:53] The cycle of insolvency[07:12] Solving the profitability puzzle[13:38] Pricing starts with margin[19:47] Forecast before measurement[23:32] Shifting the client dynamic[26:40] Deliverables versus real value[30:21] Risk adjusted decisions[36:00] Outcomes over everything[40:29] What drives pricing powerMORE ABOUT MARCEL:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpasWebsite: parakeeto.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

April 21, 202639 min

Accenture's Head of Innovation: The changing face of innovation – Enda King

Today’s guest is Enda King, Head of Innovation for Communications, Media and Technology at Accenture. Having also worked in media, advertising and brand, he offers a rare perspective on the convergence of agencies and consultancies.Enda describes how innovation has shifted from long-term strategy decks to faster, more adaptive thinking based on experimentation, collaboration and real-world testing. He explains why clients no longer look for fixed answers but for the capability to continuously sense, adapt and respond in an uncertain environment.Drawing on his journey from Carat and TBWA, to Ogilvy and Redscout, he also explores the growing importance of human judgement, curiosity and asking better questions.This is an optimistic yet grounded conversation about embracing ambiguity, building resilience, and redefining how value is created in a rapidly changing world.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:39] Endless possibilities[04:16] Leveraging creative thinking[07:18] Confidence in uncertainty[08:58] Media roots and curiosity[09:48] Brands shaped by culture[16:31] Failure as valuable learning[19:43] Innovation as team sport[30:44] Think like an antagonist[32:14] Delivering speed and certainty[36:44] An opportunity for better ideasMORE ABOUT ENDA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kingendaWebsite: accenture.com/us-enHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

April 14, 202640 min

Amplify's Global CEO: Evolving your core discipline – Jonathan Emmins

Today’s guest is Jonathan Emmins, Founder and Global CEO of Amplify, the creative agency known for redefining brand experience for the likes of Google, Netflix, and PlayStation.Jonathan shares how Amplify evolved from experiential onto a broader creative canvas, helping brands become “match fit for 3-D world”. He explains why worldbuilding sits at the heart of their approach, creating ideas that live across channels rather than being dictated by them.The conversation explores the power of culture as a strategic tool, not just a marketing layer, and why brands must earn their place within it. Jonathan also reflects on how Amplify has stayed relevant over nearly two decades – from building teams around curiosity, to balancing scale with boutique thinking.With candid insights on growth, creative integrity and joining Common Interest, this is a thoughtful look at how agencies can evolve without losing what made them distinctive in the first place.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:00] Amplify’s origin story[03:57] A broader creative approach[08:35] Being the ‘safe wildcard’[09:50] The art of worldbuilding[14:42] Culture as a connector[22:56] Curiosity drives relevance[26:30] Being defined by what you refuse[31:01] Joining Common Interest[38:04] A scrapbook mindsetMORE ABOUT JONATHAN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathanemminsWebsite: weareamplify.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

April 7, 202635 min

Dovetail IT's Co-Founder: From back office to boardroom – Greg Caplan

Today’s guest is Greg Caplan, Co-Founder of Dovetail, the IT managed service provider trusted by leading agencies including Uncommon, Quiet Storm and Isobel.Greg brings a rare perspective on how technology is quietly reshaping the agency business model from the inside out. With a background in post-production and years spent supporting creative companies, he explains why IT is no longer a back-office function but a strategic driver of growth, resilience and client trust.The conversation explores how agencies are navigating an increasingly complex landscape of cyber security, compliance requirements and distributed freelance teams. Greg also unpacks the rising importance of technology in new-business, where issues such as data governance and information security are now central to winning major pitches.AI inevitably also features. Greg shares a pragmatic view of how agencies should approach it, from identifying ‘shadow AI’ inside organisations to building leadership-level understanding of the tools reshaping client relationships.HIGHLIGHTS:[04:29] The technology behind agencies[06:19] AI strategy[09:10] Automation powering freelancers[12:28] Smart cyber strategy planning[15:47] Confidentiality, integrity and accessibility[20:04] Rooting out ‘shadow AI’[25:01] Readiness for leaders[27:19] The rise of specialised AI[29:35] Liberating creativityMORE ABOUT GREG:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/greg-caplanWebsite: Dovetail.londonHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

March 31, 202643 min

the7stars' Owner: Being a media indie in 2026 – Jenny Biggam

Today’s guest is Jenny Biggam, Owner of the7stars – and one of the most respected voices in independent media. With 20 years at the helm of the UK’s largest independent media agency, she offers a clear and compelling view of what it really means to stay independent in a market obsessed with scale.She explains how only a purely fee-based model creates true neutrality, why transparency isn’t a slogan but a structural choice, and how partnership sits at the heart of everything the agency does. From working collaboratively with platforms and consultancies, to building creative capability inside a media agency, Jenny shares how the7stars has evolved while staying true to its beliefs. The conversation also explores AI, career acceleration, client in-housing and the risks of agencies describing themselves as ‘platforms’. It’s an optimistic, grounded look at where media agencies are heading and why talent, culture and commercial clarity still matter most.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:33] What partnership really means[08:03] The reality of proprietary media [10:32] Platforms as partners[14:00] Pitching against the giants[19:22] Feedback over flip flopping[25:16] A melting pot of skills[27:20] AI in creative development[29:51] The inverted pyramid shift[33:45] Agencies as platforms explained[36:45] Clients in-housing[39:15] Talent drives renewalMORE ABOUT JENNY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenny-biggamWebsite: the7stars.co.ukHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq