The Greener Way

Hosted by FS Sustainability

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203

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Jun 2026

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About the show

The Greener Way is your podcast for exploring the big environmental, social and governance questions. Each week, The Greener Way will focus on deep conversations with investment and corporate experts who are deeply engaged in managing the sustainability challenges facing our planet. From climate change to biodiversity, human rights and modern slavery to corporate purpose and governance, we tackle head-on the nuances and trade-offs of our complicated world. The Greener Way is the podcast of FS Sustainability, the premier weekly trade publication that covers how investors and companies are changing real world outcomes across environmental, social and governance issues. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

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June 15, 202618 min

Green Bonds: From niche to mainstream

Is Your Portfolio Missing Out? The Green Bond Boom ExplainedQuestion:How have green bonds evolved, what risks and opportunities do they present for investors, and what are the biggest misconceptions about this asset class?Answer:Green bonds have grown into a US $2 trillion global market, with Europe leading but APAC and emerging markets catching up. According to Johann Ple, senior portfolio manager at BNP Paribas Asset Management, green bonds now offer broad sector diversification and transparency, making them a credible alternative to conventional bonds. Risks are similar to traditional bonds (interest rates, credit spreads), but greenwashing and sector concentration require careful due diligence. Misconceptions about lower returns (“greenium”) are fading, and green bonds are increasingly viable for all investors, not just those focused on sustainability. Australian super funds and institutional investors can now build custom strategies, aligning portfolios with net zero ambitions without sacrificing performance.Why it matters:For investors, green bonds represent a way to combine positive environmental impact with competitive returns and transparency. The asset class is mature enough for custom strategies, with over 800 issuers and broad sector representation. Understanding the risks and debunking myths is crucial for informed allocation, especially as demand grows in Australia and globally.Sources:• Johann Ple, senior portfolio manager, BNP Paribas Asset Management• Michelle Baltazar, executive director of media, FS Sustainability• Responsible Investing Association Australia• EU Green Bond Standards, APAC market dataTimestamps:00:00 US as a missed opportunity for green bonds02:07 Market size: $2 trillion, Europe dominates, APAC and emerging markets rising03:50 Sector diversification: utilities, banks, real estate, transport, telecom06:54 Risks: conventional bond risks, greenwashing, sector concentration09:00 Greenwashing: issuer and project due diligence11:25 Australia’s role: investor and issuer, custom strategies for super funds13:03 Misconceptions: returns, “greenium”, ESG backlash16:54 Growth drivers: APAC, emerging markets, not just EuropeWe record on Gadigal land and pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

June 8, 202617 min

Turning geospatial data into investor insight

A conversation with Josh Gilbert, head of geospatial strategy, ISS STOXX Sustainability, on how geospatial intelligence is reshaping climate and nature risk analysis for investors.Data overload or data goldmine? Investors race to decode nature’s signalsQuestion:How can geospatial tools help investors move from climate risk mapping to nature risk management, and what does this mean for investment decisions?Answer:Geospatial data, like satellite imagery and sensor data, has moved from being a reporting tool to a strategic asset for investors. According to Josh Gilbert, head of geospatial strategy, ISS STOXX Sustainability, the challenge is no longer data starvation but “data digestion”: translating abundant, complex environmental data into clear, actionable financial insights. Sectors with tangible assets (like mining, real estate, and infrastructure) are most directly impacted, but as supply chains and nature risks become more visible, all asset classes are affected. The investors who learn to integrate geospatial and nature data into their decision-making will gain a competitive edge.Why it matters:For investors, this shift means that understanding climate and nature risks is no longer optional or just a compliance exercise. The ability to interpret and act on geospatial data will increasingly drive portfolio resilience, risk management, and even alpha generation. Those who treat nature and climate data as core investment signals, not just pretty dashboards, will be better positioned in a volatile, changing world.Sources:• Josh Gilbert, head of geospatial strategy, ISS Stoxx Sustainability• Michelle Baltazar, executive director of media, FS Sustainability• European Space Agency, SustGlobal, Responsible Investing Association Australia• Industry frameworks: TCFD, IFRS, SASBTimestamps:00:00 Data digestion vs data starvation01:15 Guest background: from economics to geospatial strategy03:22 Why investors struggle with climate and nature risk04:59 How geospatial data moves from reporting to real investment insight06:22 Sectors most impacted by climate and nature risk08:44 Misconceptions: dashboards vs actionable metrics10:53 Nature risk management: real-world examples12:32 The next decade: AI, numeric models, and financial integration15:32 Competitive edge for early adopters16:56 Final thoughts and wrap-upWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/*Both FS Sustainability and ISS STOXX Sustainability are owned by ISS STOXX.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

June 1, 202622 min

The appeal of the HALO trade

HALO trade: Why hard assets are the new gold for sustainable investorsQuestion:What is the HALO trade, and why are asset-heavy companies suddenly attracting investor attention in the age of AI and decarbonisation?Short answer:The HALO trade (Hard Assets, Low Obsolescence) is reshaping investment strategies. According to Dierdre Cooper, companies tied to physical infrastructure (like grids, pipelines, and industrial equipment) are seeing renewed growth as AI drives demand for electricity and hard assets. Unlike asset-light sectors threatened by automation, these companies are essential for electrification and climate solutions. Investors who focus on this theme may benefit from attractive valuations and strong growth, especially as decarbonisation and electrification accelerate globally.Why it matters:For sustainable investors, the HALO trade highlights a shift from tech and asset-light stocks to companies with tangible, enduring value. Understanding this trend means recognising the importance of infrastructure, energy storage, and electrification in a world increasingly powered by AI and climate technology. Missing this shift could mean missing out on the next wave of growth and resilience in global portfolios.Sources:• Michelle Baltazar, executive director of media, FS Sustainability• Dierdre Cooper, head of sustainable equity, Ninety One• Ninety One Global Environment strategy• Companies: Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., Limited (CATL), Hongfa Technology, Shaman Electric Co., Limited, Infineon Technologies, TE Connectivity• Industry context: MSCI All Country World Index, decarbonisation trendsTimestamps:00:00 Asset-heavy companies and electrification00:29 HALO trade explained01:24 Ninety One’s sustainable investing approach03:15 Global environment strategy vs traditional equity06:11 AI, asset-light vs asset-heavy sectors08:32 Data centres and electricity demand11:30 PE multiples and growth outlook13:13 Market cycles and investor sentiment14:28 Electricity as “all of the above” solution17:25 Exciting trends for the next decade19:52 Autonomous robots and electrification20:42 Risks and selectivity in thematic investing21:33 Wrap-up and final thoughtsWe record on Gadigal Land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

May 25, 202621 min

AI and the human capital paradox

AI, Workplace Culture and Labor Rights: Why human capital risk is financially material This week on The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar speaks with Emily DeMasi, regional team lead - North America EOS at Federated Hermes, about why human capital risks, such as workplace culture, harassment and violence, labour rights, and supply chain conditions, are financially material for investors through impacts on productivity, reputation, and long-term returns.DeMasi explains how stewardship engagement assesses human capital using employee surveys, whistleblower mechanisms, and core disclosure metrics such as workforce size (including gig and contract workers), turnover, demographics, and total workforce cost.They discuss AI’s double-edged impact, from efficiencies and training needs to job displacement anxiety and potential worker surveillance.00:39 Why human capital matters02:45 Workplace harassment as material risk04:29 Do employee surveys work?05:50 Investor engagement metrics07:55 AI workforce disruption11:13 Case studies13:43 Best practice supply chain frameworks16:18 Why stewardship is crucial17:42 Looking ahead on AI and governanceWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

May 18, 202617 min

The next clean energy hotspot

Why Australia Is a Clean Energy Investment Hotspot: Solar, Wind, Batteries & Energy Security | Joost BergsmaOn The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar speaks with Joost Bergsma, global head of energy at Nuveen Infrastructure, about clean energy investing, energy security, and why Australia is attractive for large-scale renewables.Bergsma reflects on his the last two decades in the sector and describes how capital raising has evolved from needing to explain basic technologies to today’s dedicated institutional infrastructure teams, alongside greater competition.He explains clean energy investments across solar, onshore/offshore wind and battery storage that appeal to Nuveen’s institutional clients.He also highlights what’s new in the battery storage sector and Australia’s land-driven scale advantages versus Europe.For investors just entering the clean energy sector, he explains the need to address China-concentrated supply chains and Australia’s grid buildout needs.01:02 A career milestone in clean energy02:13 Capital raising outlook03:09 Nuveen infrastructure strategy04:43 Geopolitics and energy security06:47 Data centres and demand surge08:41 Risk return spectrum explained09:45 Australian investor appetite10:54 Nuveen’s local pipeline12:04 Ten-year outlook on batteries14:40 What could go wrong?We record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

May 11, 202617 min

The real cost of tariffs

Who Really pays tariffs? Stanford economist breaks down the hidden consumer costIn this episode of The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar speaks with Stanford University economist Luke Heeney about the often-overlooked social impacts of industrial policy, focusing on the 2025 US tariffs and their effects on the automotive sector.Heeney explains why accounting for tariffs on intermediate inputs is crucial, finding that many US producers lose billions when parts are included, with only one company coming out ahead due to greater domestic sourcing.He also finds the largest percentage of financial losses fall on the lowest-income households, costing billions of dollars.00:00 Who pays tariffs?00:58 Industrial policy focus03:11 Tariffs study setup04:30 Key findings explained06:27 Lessons for Australia07:37 Why impacts are overlooked09:37 Staggering consumer costs12:04 Building better toolkits14:27 What the government can doWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

May 4, 202616 min

The supply chain bottleneck

Critical Minerals Supercycle? How AI, Clean Energy & Geopolitics Are Reshaping Supply ChainsIn this episode of The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar chats with Vinnay Cchoda, responsible investment manager at BetaShares, about the predicted shortage of some critical minerals in the next couple of decades and how that could force a resetting of investment expectations and strategies.Cchoda says the convergence of electrification, AI-driven data center buildout, and unstable geopolitics is causing supply chain issues.He argues that the supercycle of critical minerals is directionally right but too simplistic, with uneven outcomes across the different types of minerals. For example, lithium and nickel are seeing faster supply responses and price corrections, while copper has hit new highs.The discussion highlights why investors need to look at their diversification strategies and how to respond to the cycles within the supercycle impacting investment outcomes.Read: Critical minerals in the age of AI and tariffs (Link: https://www.fssustainability.com.au/article/critical-minerals-in-the-age-of-ai-and-tariffs)01:08 Three forces converge04:17 Supercycle creates uneven outcomes07:27 When AI meets clean energy09:06 Predicted 40% supply shortage10:52 Supply chain bottlenecks13:05 Investor playbookWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders, past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

April 27, 202612 min

A deep-green investing mindset

Deep Green vs Medium Green Investing: Returns, Volatility & ESG Trade-Offs | The Greener WayIn this episode of The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar speaks with financial adviser Alex Jameison of Jamieson Private Wealth about how investors reassess sustainability preferences amid fuel shortages, energy insecurity, and geopolitical shocks.Jamieson explains starting with a client’s values and ESG preferences, clarifying what they want to exclude or include (such as mining, defense, tobacco), and discussing “levels of greenness” and potential performance trade-offs—especially when sectors like materials or oil and gas outperform. He notes medium-green portfolios may not see major performance trade-offs, while very deep-green approaches can increase volatility due to concentration and may require a more global investment mindset, with Europe offering larger opportunities than Australia.02:03 Deep green vs returns03:54 Explaining cycle differences05:25 Volatility and global diversification06:15 Investor expectations and greenwashing07:59 ESG options and advisor role09:45 Geopolitics and renewables trendsWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

April 20, 202615 min

Banking on green loans

Green loans & cheaper home batteries: How the CEFC Is Powering Australia’s Household Energy TransitionThis week on The Greener Way, host Michelle Baltazar chats with Grace Tam, head of consumer finance at the Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC), on how the Australian government, through the CEFC, is driving record levels of green loan applications.According to the CEFC, the number of loans made under the Household Energy Upgrades Fund™ more than doubled between the first and second halves of 2025, up by 158 per cent. More than 4,100 loans have been made and over 10,000 technology installations completed since the fund was launched.Tam explains what's worked, the misconceptions around green loans and how lenders are adopting a new approach to appeal to investors and 'green' households.00:49 What is the CEFC's purpose?01:02 The latest on the $1bn Household Energy Upgrades Fund02:33 What is a green loan?03:21 The green lending ecosystem05:38 The uptake and key lessons07:16 The rise of virtual power plants08:41 Has the risk around green lending changed?09:54 Barriers and the need for more consumer education11:10 How lenders are partnering with third parties12:53 A small window of opportunityWe record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders, past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

April 13, 202616 min

Becoming a B Corp: What it takes and why it matters

What does it actually mean to become a B Corp, and is it worth the effort? In this episode, UNLESS Financial chief sustainability officer and financial adviser Marissa Theodorou talks us through the journey she and the UNLESS team went through recently to become B Corp certified.Breaking down the business case, timeline, key pillars, and common pitfalls of the process, Theodorou explains why the certification is more than just a badge and highlights the tangible benefits that come with it.She also touches on how the certification process has been strengthened in recent times to ensure businesses are truly balancing profit with positive impact.We record on Gadigal land and we pay our respects to the traditional custodians of country and elders past and present.https://www.fssustainability.com.au/This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy