The Customer Success Playbook

Hosted by Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon

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147

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Dec 2025

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EN-US

About the show

Welcome to “The Customer Success Playbook,” a fresh podcast initiative spearheaded by Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon. Immerse yourself with us in the dynamic realm of customer success, where we unravel the latest insights, inspirations, and wisdom from recognized leaders in the Customer Success domain. Our journey began with a simple yet profound belief: that meaningful conversations can significantly impact our professional trajectory. With this ethos, we’ve embarked on a mission to bring to you the voices of seasoned and revered professionals in the field. Our episodes have seen the likes of Sue Nabeth Moore, Greg Daines, Jeff Heclker, James Scott, David Ellin, and David Jackson, who have generously shared their expertise on a variety of pertinent topics. We’ve delved into the intricacies of Profit and Loss Statements in Customer Success with Dave Jacksson, explored the potential of Customer Success Platforms with Dave Ellin, and unravelled the role of AI in Customer Success with all guests. With Sue, we navigated the waters of Organizational Alignment, while Greg brought to light strategies for Reducing Churn. Not to be missed is James insightful discourse on the Current Trends in Customer Success and Jeff’s thoughts on Service Delivery in CS. Each episode is crafted with the intention to ignite curiosity and foster a culture of continuous learning and improvement among customer success professionals. Our discussions transcend the conventional, probing into the proactive approach, and the evolving landscape of customer success. Whether you’re a seasoned veteran or a newcomer to the industry, our goal is to propel your customer success prowess to greater heights. The rich tapestry of topics we cover ensures there’s something for everyone, from the fundamentals to the advanced strategies that shape the modern customer success playbook. Our upcoming episodes promise a wealth of knowledge with topics like CS Math, Training, AI, Getting hired in CS, and CS Tool reviews, ensuring our listeners stay ahead of the curve in this fast-evolving field. The roadmap ahead is laden with engaging dialogues with yet more industry mavens, aimed at equipping you with the acumen to excel in your customer success journey. At “The Customer Success Playbook,” our zeal for aiding others and disseminating our expertise to the community fuels our endeavor. Embark on this enlightening voyage with us, and escalate your customer success game to unparalleled levels. Join us on this quest for knowledge, engage with a community of like-minded professionals, and elevate your customer success game to the next level. Your journey towards mastering customer success begins here, at “The Customer Success Playbook.” Keep On Playing!!

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December 22, 2025Episode 7337 min

Customer Success Playbook - Final Episode with Kevin and Roman

Send us Fan MailThis finale feels less like an ending and more like a graduation ceremony for everyone who has ever cared about Customer Success.In this closing chapter of the customer success playbook podcast, Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon look back on a journey that started as a “ludicrous” idea over food and drinks and turned into a global community with nearly 13,000 downloads across countries like Australia, Israel, France, and beyond. They revisit how the show began as a simple networking experiment during a job transition and evolved into a platform for learning, connection, and real human stories behind Customer Success careers.Kevin and Roman share their favorite guests and moments—from foundational lessons on P&L and value with Dave Jackson, to onboarding excellence with Donna Weber, to conversations about imposter syndrome with Rachel Provan, and the future of AI and agents with Sam Cummings. They talk candidly about fear, courage, and the reality that neither of them knew the first thing about podcasting when they started.This episode is a reflective, warm, and occasionally cheeky goodbye to the show in its current form—and a clear pivot point toward what’s coming next for both hosts, their careers, and the evolving world of Customer Success and AI.Detailed AnalysisFrom a business and leadership standpoint, this episode is a masterclass in experimentation, courage, and community-building.1. Turning a career transition into a strategic platformKevin initially launched the podcast as a networking tool while navigating a job transition. That decision paid off in multiple ways: expanded visibility, deeper relationships, and a strong professional brand. For leaders and CS professionals, this is a powerful example of turning uncertainty into leverage—using content as a strategic asset rather than just a marketing tactic.Key takeaways for operators and executives:Don’t wait for the “perfect moment” to build a platform—build while you’re in motion.Treat visibility, networking, and knowledge-sharing as part of your job, not an optional extra.Use long-form conversations to deepen trust with your ecosystem (customers, peers, partners, talent).2. The Customer Success community as a force multiplierRoman highlights how generous and open the Customer Success community has been—guests freely sharing their time, their expertise, and even their networks by recommending future guests. This is more than feel-good community talk; it’s a blueprint for modern go-to-market.Business relevance:High-performing CS communities create compounding value: better ideas, stronger talent pipelines, and faster pattern recognition around what works.Geographic boundaries matter less when you’re connecting through content; an Atlanta-based duo built a truly global audience.Investing in community creates resilience—especially in volatile job markets.3. Learning as a competitive advantage (and a personal operating system)A recurring theme in the conversation is learning: Kevin’s love for learning, Roman’s reflections on trying new formats, and the way every guest added another chapter to their understanding of the space.For modern leaders, this episode underlines a simple but critical truth:Learning is not a hobby; it’s a strategic skill.Curiosity compounds—each experiment (recap episodes, AI co-hosts, mini episodes) created new insights about what resonates.Failure, when treated as data, accelerates success. As they note: the faster you fail, the faster you find what works.You can hear how this mindset directly shapes their careers:Roman is helping Teams Plus evolve from a traditional reseller to an analytics- and AI-led communications platform, applying lessons from onboarding, customer value, and experimentation in CS.Please Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

August 29, 2025Episode 729 min

Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E72 - Adrian Swinscoe - Enhancing Customer Experience with AI

Send us Fan MailDive into the rapidly evolving world of AI with Adrian Swinscoe as we wrap up our three-part series on how to keep AI from becoming just another buzzword. This episode unpacks the flood of AI tools hitting the market, the challenge of maintaining a human touch in customer experience, and strategies to avoid the dreaded “tech for tech’s sake” trap. Adrian shares a fresh perspective on leveraging AI for operational efficiency—not by cutting costs but by unlocking capacity to deepen customer relationships. We also touch on often-overlooked ethical considerations, from AI’s environmental impact to the human labor hidden behind the scenes.In this episode of the customer success playbook, Adrian Swinscoe expertly navigates the AI hype cycle, reminding us that technology should never lead the charge without a clear strategy rooted in customer experience goals. Adrian advocates flipping the traditional tech-first approach on its head—start with the experience you want to create, then work backward to the data and technology needed. This disciplined mindset steers organizations away from buying shiny tools with no purpose and towards a deliberate, ROI-driven deployment of AI.What stands out is Adrian’s practical example of a forward-thinking e-commerce company that uses AI automation to free their agents from mundane inquiries. Instead of using this newfound efficiency to reduce headcount, they activate new channels to deepen direct customer interactions. This mindset flips the usual script focused on cost-cutting, proving that AI can be a genuine enabler of enriched customer success rather than a simple productivity hack.The episode also ventures into the less glamorous but crucial topics rarely discussed: the hefty energy consumption demanded by AI’s generative models and the ethical conundrum surrounding low-paid labor involved in data annotation. These insights serve as an important reminder that innovation must marry responsibility, aligning with broader business values and the global climate imperative.For customer success leaders, the takeaways are clear: educating teams on the art of the possible with AI, defining an experience-first strategy, and thoughtfully measuring impact are essential steps to harness AI’s power effectively. Above all, there’s a call to maintain the human element—after all, let’s not trade genuine connection for robotic efficiency. Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

August 20, 2025Episode 719 min

Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E71 - Adrian Swinscoe - Unlocking Value in Customer Journeys

Send us Fan MailReady to inject some punk spirit into your customer experience? In this episode of the Customer Success Playbook, Adrian Swinscoe joins Roman Trebon to explore the delicate art of reducing friction without losing that vital human touch. From the bustling cultural tapestry of Edinburgh’s Fringe Festival to personal tales of rock climbing and postponed trips to Japan, Adrian sets the stage with personality before diving into why not all friction is bad. He reveals why some “effortful” moments between a brand and its customers actually build loyalty, and how removing them in the name of efficiency can backfire spectacularly. If you’re looking to refine your customer journey without sterilizing it, this episode serves up the perfect balance of practical wisdom and a punk attitude.In a world obsessed with streamlining every process, this episode is a refreshing reminder that operational efficiency is not always the hero of customer success. Adrian Swinscoe brings a nuanced perspective: friction isn’t the bogeyman it’s often made out to be. By distinguishing between “good friction” — those meaningful touchpoints that enrich customer relationships — and “bad friction” that truly hinders progress, organizations can avoid the pitfall of a too-easy, yet emotionally barren, experience. His example of a company that saw sign-ups soar but retention dive thanks to over-simplification is a cautionary tale for businesses tempted to sanitize their customer journey too aggressively.The actionable takeaway? Approach your customer journey analysis with deliberate care and use data combined with direct customer feedback to fine-tune that balance. This means digging deep into customer stories and operational metrics to identify where technology should speed things up and where human moments need to be preserved or even amplified. Adrian’s advice serves as a critical chapter in your customer success playbook, fueling smarter decisions that respect both business goals and the emotional dynamics that bind customers to your brand.Bonus: His reflections on rock climbing as a meditative, focus-driven hobby provide a clever metaphor for the customer success journey itself—it’s about balance, precision, and the right amount of challenge.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

August 11, 2025Episode 708 min

Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E70 - Adrian Swinscoe - Data and Customer Storytelling

Send us Fan MailReady to shake up your customer experience approach with some no-fluff, straight-to-the-point wisdom? In this episode, Adrian Swinscoe – author of *Punk CX* and *How to Wow* – joins Roman Trebon to deliver a masterclass on how real, actionable data combined with firsthand customer stories can transform your CX from good to unforgettable. Learn why "going to the gemba" (that’s Japanese for “go see where the work happens”) can be the secret weapon in your customer success playbook, and why less complexity often results in more memorable experiences.Adrian Swinscoe dives deep into a pragmatic, almost punk rock philosophy of customer experience that’s anything but conventional. His call to action? Don’t get lost in the sea of binary data points and over-engineered solutions. Yes, data is king – but raw numbers alone often feel like a monochrome sketch. True customer success leaders bring color and context by blending quantitative insights with rich, qualitative stories. It’s these narratives that move teams to act and innovate, bridging the gap between cold metrics and vibrant human emotion.Swinscoe invokes the Toyota-inspired practice of “going to the gemba,” encouraging CX leaders to ditch conference rooms and dashboards for direct observation—whether it’s sitting with frontline agents or experiencing the product as a customer would. This boots-on-the-ground approach fosters empathy, reveals friction points invisible in reports, and catalyzes meaningful change.Echoing his punk ethos, Adrian warns against the natural tendency to keep piling on features and processes under the guise of “improvement.” Instead, simplicity should be your compass. If you add one new element to a process, critique what two things you can eliminate. Complexity is easy; elegance and clarity require discipline—and they pay dividends in customer loyalty.Roman’s illustrated comic example highlights the paradox: an overcomplicated onboarding and an overly simplified offboarding process reveal where brands lose customers—not because of lack of effort, but too much of the wrong kind of effort.For anyone seeking practical, actionable guidance on staying ahead in the crowded CX arena, this conversation is a treasure trove. Tune in, challenge your assumptions, and enrich your customer success playbook with these hard-earned lessons on observation, storytelling, and ruthless simplicity.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

July 25, 2025Episode 6921 min

Customer Success Playbook S3 E69 - Gayle Gorvett - Scaling AI Governance Without Killing Innovation

Send us Fan MailHow do you build AI governance that scales without becoming the innovation police? In our final conversation with tech lawyer Gayle Gorvett, we tackle the ultimate balancing act facing every organization: creating robust AI oversight that moves at the speed of business. From shocking federal court rulings that could force AI companies to retain all user data indefinitely, to the Trump administration's potential overhaul of copyright law, this episode reveals how rapidly the legal landscape is shifting beneath our feet. Gayle breaks down practical frameworks from NIST and Duke University that adapt to your specific business needs while avoiding the dreaded legal bottleneck. Whether you're protecting customer data or designing the future of work, this customer success playbook episode provides the roadmap for scaling governance without sacrificing innovation velocity.Detailed AnalysisThe tension between governance speed and innovation velocity represents one of the most critical challenges facing modern businesses implementing AI at scale. Gayle Gorvett's insights into adaptive risk frameworks offer a compelling alternative to the traditional "slow and thorough" legal approach that often strangles innovation in bureaucratic red tape.The revelation about the OpenAI versus New York Times case demonstrates how quickly the legal landscape can shift with far-reaching implications. A single magistrate judge's ruling requiring OpenAI to retain all user data—regardless of contracts, enterprise agreements, or international privacy laws—illustrates the unpredictable nature of AI regulation. For customer success professionals, this uncertainty demands governance frameworks that can rapidly adapt to new legal realities without completely derailing operational efficiency.The discussion of NIST and Duke University frameworks reveals the democratization of enterprise-level governance tools. These resources make sophisticated risk assessment accessible to organizations of all sizes, eliminating the excuse that "we're too small for proper AI governance." This democratization aligns perfectly with the customer success playbook philosophy of scalable, repeatable processes that deliver consistent outcomes regardless of organizational size.Perhaps most intriguingly, the conversation touches on fundamental questions about intellectual property and compensation models in an AI-driven economy. Kevin's observation about automating human-designed workflows raises profound questions about fair compensation when human knowledge gets embedded into perpetual AI systems. This shift from time-based to value-based compensation models reflects broader changes in how customer success teams will need to demonstrate and capture value in an increasingly automated world.The technical discussion about local versus hosted AI models becomes particularly relevant for customer success teams handling sensitive customer data. The ability to contain AI processing within controlled environments versus leveraging cloud-based solutions represents a strategic decision that balances capability, cost, and compliance considerations.Gayle's emphasis on human oversight—even in automated governance processes—reinforces the irreplaceable role of human judgment in AI implementation. The requirement for annual audits and human-in-the-loop processes acknowledges that AI governance cannot itself be fully automated, creating ongoing opportunities for customer success professionals to add strategic value through oversight and optimization.The rapid changes in copyright law and intellectual property protection highlight how customer success teams must navigate not just current regulations but anticipate future legal shifts that could impact customer relationships and data handling practices. This forward-looking governance approach becomes a competitive advantage for organizations that can adapt quickly to regulatory changePlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

July 16, 2025Episode 6811 min

Customer Success Playbook S3 E68 - Gayle Gorvett - Who's Liable When AI Goes Wrong?

Send us Fan MailWhen AI systems fail spectacularly, who pays the price? Part two of our conversation with global tech lawyer Gayle Gorvett tackles the million-dollar question every business leader is afraid to ask. With federal AI regulation potentially paused for a decade while technology races ahead at breakneck speed, companies are left creating their own rules in an accountability vacuum. Gayle reveals why waiting for government guidance could be a costly mistake and how smart businesses are turning governance policies into competitive advantages. From the EU AI Act's complexity challenges to state-by-state regulatory patchwork, this customer success playbook episode exposes the legal landmines hiding in your AI implementation—and shows you how to navigate them before they explode.Detailed AnalysisThe accountability crisis in AI represents one of the most pressing challenges facing modern businesses, yet most organizations remain dangerously unprepared. Gayle Gorvett's revelation about the federal government's proposed 10-year pause on state AI laws while crafting comprehensive regulation highlights a sobering reality: businesses must become their own regulatory bodies or risk operating in a legal minefield.The concept of "private regulation" that Gayle introduces becomes particularly relevant for customer success teams managing AI-powered interactions. When your chatbots handle customer complaints, your predictive models influence renewal decisions, or your recommendation engines shape customer experiences, the liability implications extend far beyond technical malfunctions. Every AI decision becomes a potential point of legal exposure, making governance frameworks essential risk management tools rather than optional compliance exercises.Perhaps most intriguingly, Gayle's perspective on governance policies as competitive differentiators challenges the common view of compliance as a business burden. In the customer success playbook framework, transparency becomes a trust-building mechanism that strengthens customer relationships rather than merely checking regulatory boxes. Companies that proactively communicate their AI governance practices position themselves as trustworthy partners in an industry where trust remains scarce.The legal profession's response to AI—requiring disclosure to clients and technical proficiency from practitioners—offers a compelling model for other industries. This approach acknowledges that AI literacy isn't just a technical requirement but a professional responsibility. For customer success leaders, this translates into a dual mandate: understanding AI capabilities enough to leverage them effectively while maintaining enough oversight to protect customer interests.The EU AI Act's implementation challenges that Gayle describes reveal the complexity of regulating rapidly evolving technology. Even comprehensive regulatory frameworks struggle to keep pace with innovation, reinforcing the importance of internal governance structures that can adapt quickly to new AI capabilities and emerging risks. This agility becomes particularly crucial for customer-facing teams who often serve as the first line of defense when AI systems produce unexpected outcomes.The concept of affirmative defense through documented governance policies provides tangible business value beyond regulatory compliance. When companies can demonstrate good faith efforts to establish ethical AI practices, they create legal protection while simultaneously building customer confidence. This dual benefit makes governance investment a strategic decision rather than a compliance cost, aligning legal protection with business growth objectives.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

July 7, 2025Episode 679 min

Customer Success Playbook S3 E67 - Gayle Gorvett - AI Governance Essentials

Send us Fan MailReady to navigate the complex world of AI governance without getting lost in legal jargon? This episode delivers a masterclass in building ethical AI frameworks that actually work for your business. Global tech lawyer and fractional general counsel Gayle Gorvett breaks down the essential guardrails every company needs before diving headfirst into AI implementation. From her work with Duke University's AI working groups to real-world enterprise applications, Gayle reveals why treating AI like the "shiny new toy" without proper governance is a recipe for disaster. Whether you're protecting customer data or safeguarding your company's future, this customer success playbook episode provides the foundational knowledge to approach AI adoption with confidence and compliance.Detailed AnalysisThe AI revolution isn't just changing how we work—it's fundamentally reshaping the legal and ethical landscape of business operations. Gayle Gorvett's expertise in AI governance comes at a crucial time when companies are rushing to implement AI solutions without adequate safeguards. Her comparison of current AI hype to the blockchain frenzy of a decade ago serves as a sobering reminder that sustainable innovation requires thoughtful planning, not just technological enthusiasm.The multidisciplinary approach Gayle advocates represents a significant shift in how businesses should structure their AI initiatives. Gone are the days when technology decisions could be made in isolation. Modern AI governance demands collaboration between business functions, technical teams, and legal counsel—creating a new paradigm for cross-functional leadership in customer success organizations.For customer success professionals, the implications extend far beyond internal operations. When AI systems interact with customer data, handle support tickets, or predict customer behavior, the governance framework becomes a direct reflection of your company's commitment to customer trust. Gayle's emphasis on informing customers about AI usage highlights how transparency has evolved from a nice-to-have to a business imperative.The Duke AI Risk Framework and NIST guidelines she references provide actionable starting points for organizations feeling overwhelmed by the governance challenge. These resources democratize access to enterprise-level AI governance, making sophisticated risk assessment accessible to companies of all sizes. This democratization aligns perfectly with the customer success playbook philosophy of scalable, repeatable processes that drive consistent outcomes.Perhaps most importantly, Gayle's 26-year perspective in technology law offers historical context that many AI discussions lack. Her experience through previous technology waves—from the early internet boom to blockchain—provides valuable pattern recognition for identifying sustainable AI strategies versus fleeting trends. This wisdom becomes particularly relevant for customer success leaders who must balance innovation with the reliability their customers depend on.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

July 3, 2025Episode 6613 min

Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E66 - Jake McKee - AI Experience Design

Send us Fan MailThe final episode of this transformative series tackles the ultimate challenge: scaling AI experiences without sacrificing empathy. Jake McKee reveals why most companies approach AI transformation backwards—focusing on tools instead of relationships, replacement instead of enhancement. This customer success playbook episode demonstrates how successful AI transformation mirrors the digital transformation of the past decade, requiring fundamental changes to business processes, not just technology adoption. McKee's framework for maintaining authentic human connections while scaling AI across enterprise environments provides practical guardrails for companies navigating the complex balance between efficiency and empathy. From addressing AI hallucinations transparently to designing trust through micro-moments, this conversation offers a roadmap for AI implementations that enhance rather than diminish human relationships.Detailed AnalysisMcKee's perspective on AI transformation represents a sophisticated understanding of organizational change management applied to emerging technology. His comparison to digital transformation provides crucial context—just as companies had to fundamentally rethink business processes when moving from analog to digital, AI transformation requires reimagining workflows, decision-making processes, and human-machine collaboration models.The conversation reveals critical insights about trust-building in AI systems, emphasizing that trust develops through consistent micro-moments rather than singular grand gestures. This mirrors human relationship dynamics and provides a practical framework for designing AI experiences that build confidence over time. McKee's examples of internal process failures—particularly the 13-screen system requiring hours of work before allowing saves—illustrate how poor experience design destroys trust regardless of underlying functionality.Perhaps most valuable is McKee's nuanced approach to AI transparency and hallucination management. Rather than attempting to eliminate AI limitations, he advocates for honest communication about system capabilities and uncertainties. This customer success playbook approach recognizes that users can develop healthy relationships with imperfect AI systems when expectations are properly set and limitations are communicated clearly.The discussion also addresses the critical challenge of scaling empathetic AI across large organizations. McKee's emphasis on relationship design over feature development provides a sustainable framework for maintaining human-centric experiences even as AI implementations grow in scope and complexity. His insights about contextual AI behavior—understanding when users need speed versus thoughtful interaction—offer practical guidance for enterprise AI strategy.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

June 25, 2025Episode 6517 min

Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E65 - Jake Mckee - Community VS Data Driven Road Map

Send us Fan MailWhat happens when passionate customer feedback clashes with cold, hard data? Jake McKee tackles this age-old product dilemma with wisdom earned from years at Lego and building communities for Fortune 500 brands. This episode of the customer success playbook reveals why treating community building as relationship development—not just feedback collection—transforms how companies balance emotional customer input with analytical metrics. McKee's "everybody goes home happy" philosophy demonstrates how sustainable product decisions emerge when companies design mutually beneficial relationships rather than extracting value from user communities. From scale modeling to high-end fusion restaurants, this conversation weaves personal insights with professional strategies for community-driven product development.Detailed AnalysisMcKee's approach to resolving the tension between passionate customer feedback and data-driven metrics represents a sophisticated understanding of modern product development challenges. His framework moves beyond the traditional either/or mentality to reveal how qualitative community insights can actually strengthen quantitative analysis when properly interpreted through relationship context.The discussion illuminates critical flaws in conventional product development cycles, particularly the tendency to collect requirements upfront, disappear into development "black boxes" for months, then emerge with solutions disconnected from evolving customer needs. McKee's community-driven product development methodology keeps customer voices actively engaged throughout the development process, creating real-time feedback loops that prevent costly misalignments.Perhaps most valuable is McKee's perspective on starting small with community building. Rather than investing in expensive platforms and complex infrastructure, he advocates for beginning immediately with simple relationship-building activities—introducing customers to each other, facilitating peer connections, and treating community development as an ongoing relationship rather than a marketing project. This customer success playbook approach recognizes that authentic communities emerge from genuine value exchange, not sophisticated technology platforms.The conversation also explores the nuanced art of community participation, whether in branded platforms or external spaces like Reddit. McKee's guidance on "showing up" rather than "taking over" provides practical wisdom for companies looking to engage authentically with existing customer communities rather than disrupting established dynamics.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

June 16, 2025Episode 647 min

Customer Success Playbook S3 E 64 - Jake McKee - AI Voice and AI Adoption

Send us Fan MailThe future of AI isn't just about technology—it's about relationships. Jake McKee, renowned as "the community guy," delivers a paradigm-shifting perspective on AI adoption that goes far beyond features and functionality. Rather than getting caught up in the technical capabilities, McKee advocates for designing the emotional connection between humans and AI systems. This customer success playbook episode reveals why the most successful AI implementations focus on relationship design, helping users feel comfortable whether they're interacting with a clearly identified robot or a humanistic assistant. McKee draws from his extensive experience at Lego and Fortune 500 companies to demonstrate how thoughtful AI experience design can transform user adoption and trust.Detailed AnalysisMcKee's revolutionary concept of "AI Experience Design" (AIX) represents a fundamental shift in how organizations should approach AI implementation. His core principle—"design the relationship, not the functionality"—challenges the prevailing rush to launch AI features without considering the human emotional experience. The discussion reveals critical insights about user psychology, particularly how people naturally anthropomorphize AI systems, using phrases like "please" and "thank you" even when they know they're communicating with machines.The conversation explores the delicate balance between AI enthusiasm and appropriateness, referencing recent challenges with overly enthusiastic AI responses. McKee emphasizes that successful AI relationships require the same nuanced understanding we apply to human interactions—matching energy levels, providing appropriate friction for creative processes, and recognizing when users need quick answers versus thoughtful collaboration.Perhaps most importantly, this customer success playbook demonstrates how AI transformation requires understanding context and purpose. A customer service agent dealing with frustrated callers needs rapid, efficient AI assistance, while a creative professional benefits from AI that provides "good friction"—intentional slowdowns that prompt deeper thinking rather than overwhelming users with instant responses. This strategic approach to AI experience design ensures technology serves human needs rather than creating additional complexity.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookPlease Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.