"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Hosted by Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz

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357

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Jul 2026

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About the show

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

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July 4, 20261 hr 47 min

Intelligence on the Edge: Liquid AI's Ramin Hasani on the Search for Device-Native Foundation Models

Liquid AI co-founder and CEO Ramin Hasani joins Nathan to make a technically grounded case against the idea that scale alone defines the future of AI. Drawing on Liquid’s path from MIT CSAIL work on liquid time-constant networks to Automated Foundation Model Design, he explains why efficient, hardware-aware architectures can look very different from frontier-scale attention models. The conversation centers on device-native foundation models for phones, laptops, cars, and wearables, including Liquid’s open-weight LFM family and production deployments at Shopify and Mercedes-Benz. The stakes are whether useful intelligence can move beyond the data center into local, privacy-sensitive, low-latency applications—and which model and chip companies will own that on-device intelligence layer. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/intelligence-on-the-edge-liquid-ai-s-ramin-hasani-on-the-search-for-device-native-foundation-models/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:53) Special Sponsor (05:41) Liquid AI origins (22:35) Neurons versus parameters (Part 1) (22:40) Sponsor: Claude (24:32) Neurons versus parameters (Part 2) (30:51) Scaling liquid networks (40:09) Automated model design (52:04) Gating and input dependence (01:01:16) Architecture bias spectrum (01:09:17) Device foundation models (01:18:16) Hardware intelligence layer (01:30:01) Local agent setup (01:36:20) Miniaturizing intelligence limits (01:40:40) Curiosity driven AI future (01:43:45) Episode Outro (01:46:46) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

July 1, 20261 hr 29 min

1000 Designs a Day: Neural Concept's Thomas von Tschammer on AI-Native Engineering

Thomas von Tschammer, co-founder and Managing Director US of Neural Concept, argues that physics-aware AI is driving a third revolution in engineering physical products. Neural Concept’s models learn from simulation and test data to evaluate 3D designs in minutes, helping Jaguar Land Rover move from about 50 external-aerodynamics evaluations per day to 1,500 and enabling battery cool-plate suppliers to cut development cycles while improving performance. The episode explains why AI is not replacing numerical simulation, but shifting it later in the process while expanding early design exploration across automotive, Formula 1, and manufacturing workflows. The stakes are competitive: companies that make engineering iterations AI-led can compress development cycles, while legacy OEMs risk falling further behind faster-moving Chinese and digital-native hardware competitors. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/1000-designs-a-day-neural-concept-s-thomas-von-tschammer-on-ai-native-engineering/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:52) Special Sponsor (05:40) AI design revolutions (12:00) Physics models and data (Part 1) (18:40) Sponsor: Claude (20:32) Physics models and data (Part 2) (21:56) Copilots and workflows (33:22) Automation versus engineers (40:39) Industry speed gaps (48:26) Foundation models and racing (58:03) Surprising AI designs (01:06:15) Adoption and differentiation (01:17:02) Robotics and abundance (01:24:36) Episode Outro (01:28:10) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

June 27, 20261 hr 56 min

AI:AM #4: Cameron on Model Consciousness, Duvenaud's Gradual Disempowerment, swyx's AI-Eng Alpha

This AI:AM highlights cut brings together Cameron Berg, David Duvenaud, Michiel Bakker, Shawn “swyx” Wang, and Bing Xu to examine what we understand about frontier AI systems and what happens as more decisions move into their hands. Berg grounds model-consciousness debates in experiments on architecture, agency, valence, and welfare, while Duvenaud argues that even well-aligned AI could gradually disempower humans through ordinary economic choices. Bakker frames Europe’s AI challenge as a sovereignty problem, and swyx turns to practitioner stakes around agents, evals, maintainable code, and who owns the system of record. Xu closes the loop at the infrastructure layer, arguing that self-improving compute and GPU-kernel automation may deepen rather than weaken the CUDA moat. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-4-cameron-on-model-consciousness-duvenaud-s-gradual-disempowerment-swyx-s-ai-eng-alpha/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (00:38) Special Sponsor (02:26) Model consciousness indicators (10:47) Valence inside models (Part 1) (17:09) Sponsor: Claude (19:01) Valence inside models (Part 2) (19:01) Misalignment and uncertainty (25:16) Gradual disempowerment threat (35:10) Slow zones and successors (47:41) Europe's AI bind (55:13) Frontier code benchmarks (01:01:59) Routing and memory (01:10:42) Agent infrastructure strain (01:16:25) Self improving infrastructure (01:27:56) Routing compute costs (01:35:39) Sovereign AI financing (01:42:24) Judging AI judges (01:47:26) Building AI DNA (01:52:38) Episode Outro (01:55:09) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

June 23, 20262 hr 29 min

The God We Deserve: Nonzero's Robert Wright on AI as Humanity's Ultimate Test

Robert Wright of Nonzero joins Nathan to discuss The God Test, his argument that AI is humanity’s “God test” rather than just a technical challenge. They explore his evolutionary lens on deep learning, from training as selection to marketplace selection among models that may reward selectively honest, power-sensing, or deceptive agents. Wright connects those risks to the noosphere, US-China relations, cognitive empathy, and whether global coordination arrives deliberately or through a coercive singleton. The stakes are whether consumers, companies, and governments select for AIs that strengthen non-zero-sum cooperation or race toward systems that reflect and amplify our worst incentives. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/the-god-we-deserve-nonzero-s-robert-wright-on-ai-as-humanity-s-ultimate-test/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:23) Special Sponsor (06:10) Early AI encounters (18:36) Pretraining as evolution (Part 1) (19:50) Sponsor: Claude (21:42) Pretraining as evolution (Part 2) (32:19) Deceptive market pressures (41:13) Noosphere and directionality (51:02) Global brain choices (01:08:23) Designing wiser models (01:24:11) Reframing China relations (01:37:57) Building organic transparency (01:45:54) Positive nationalism and tools (01:54:21) Pausing superintelligence races (02:09:07) Applications and consciousness (02:25:27) Episode Outro (02:28:27) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

June 21, 20262 hr 14 min

AI:AM #3: Zvi on Fable, the Cases For & Against the Ban, + AI for Math, Logistics & More

Zvi Mowshowitz joins AI in the AM to unpack Anthropic's Fable system card, including its FrontierMath leap, troubling Vending-Bench behavior, decision-theory drift, and signs that model reasoning may be becoming harder to read. The episode then turns to the US government's attempted export-control action against Fable, with Zvi arguing that the cited jailbreak demonstration did not prove the claimed threat while still faulting Anthropic's political handling. Sam Hammond and Judd Rosenblatt add competing reads on state capacity, CAISI, NSA-driven caution, and the alignment world's failure to build trust across partisan lines. The stakes are whether frontier AI capability, safety evaluation, and government power can be coordinated before medicine, mathematics, software, and cyber-relevant systems move further ahead. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ai-am-3-zvi-on-fable-the-cases-for-against-the-ban-ai-for-math-logistics-more/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (01:28) Special Sponsor (03:17) Weekly highlights preview (05:23) Fable capability alarms (16:29) Anthropic government strategy (Part 1) (16:34) Sponsor: Claude (18:26) Anthropic government strategy (Part 2) (27:16) Cyber ban rationale (37:14) Government power politics (48:57) Unavoidable control risks (01:01:42) Government mechanics and empathy (01:12:50) Legal authority limits (01:19:02) Pause Overton window (01:31:58) Medicine, math, safety (01:47:27) Software without code (02:01:19) Enterprise world models (02:10:46) Episode Outro (02:13:39) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

June 20, 20262 hr 39 min

Dean Ball, on Joining OpenAI: New Power Centers, Frontier AI Policy, & Main Character Energy

Dean Ball, author of Hyperdimensional and until now a senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation, joins Nathan to announce he is joining OpenAI to build a team focused on frontier AI policy. They examine the first year of America’s AI Action Plan, Dean’s concerns about export controls and intelligence-community testing, and his broader argument against concentrating frontier AI decisions inside a small circle of government officials. The episode frames frontier labs as emerging centers of political and economic power, where consequential choices about internal deployments and recursive self-improvement may happen before public release or regulation. The stakes are who gets to shape AI governance as capabilities accelerate: federal agencies, states, labs, independent verifiers, households, or some fragile mix of them all. For full show notes, links, and references, read the episode page:https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/dean-ball-on-joining-openai-new-power-centers-frontier-ai-policy-main-character-energy/ Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

June 17, 20261 hr 46 min

Radically Better Reasoning: Elicit's Andreas Stuhlmüller & Jungwon Byun on World Models for Research

Andreas Stuhlmüller and Jungwon Byun return to discuss how Elicit is building trusted reasoning workflows for scientific research as frontier models grow more powerful but less transparent. They explain process supervision, domain-specific reasoning primitives, and world models that make evidence, causality, and counterfactuals more inspectable. The conversation also covers life sciences use cases, evaluating conflicting evidence, automated software engineering at Elicit, token costs, Gemini, and why legible reasoning may still beat neuralese. Mercury: Command is Mercury’s new conversational interface, giving you natural-language access to your finances and helping you take actions within your existing permissions and approval policies. Visit https://mercury.com to learn more and apply online in minutes. LINKS: Elicit Research Platform Andreas Stuhlmüller Personal Site Jungwon Byun X Profile Ought Research Organization Elicit Founders Previous Episode GPT-4 Technical Report Monitoring Reasoning Models Paper Ought ICE GitHub Repository Hard-to-Verify Tasks Essay Karpathy LLM Wiki Gist Obsidian Knowledge Base App Mixpanel Analytics Platform Amplitude Analytics Platform Anthropic Tracing Thoughts Research Claude AI Chat Assistant METR Long Tasks Measurement Pi Agent Scaffold Repository Personal AI Infrastructure Repository Elicit Claude Opus Evaluation Elicit API Documentation METR Developer Productivity Study Elicit Planning Is Unsolved Rich Sutton Bitter Lesson Meta Llama AI Models Recursive San Francisco Event zero.xyz Agent Tool Access Anthropic Dynamic Workflows Coverage Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

June 13, 20261 hr 44 min

AI in the AM — Week 2 Highlights (June 2026)

Week 2 highlights follows Anthropic’s Fable launch in real workflows, from safety gates and API refusals to autonomous coding, 3D world-building, and a Claude-run Twitter experiment. Geoffrey Irving and Daniel Murfet argue for alignment theory and guarantees before recursive self-improvement, while prinz tests Fable on legal reasoning and monitoring. Rahul Sonwalkar, Shlok Khemani, Tom McGrath, and Andrew Moore add field reports on data agents, hybrid authorship, interpretability, context systems, token economics, and power concentration. Mercury: Run your finances with virtual cards, spending limits, merchant/category locks, and AI-friendly tools like API keys, MCP, and CLI. Check out Mercury at https://mercury.com LINKS: Claude Fable 5 announcement Julius AI platform Rahul Sonwalkar homepage Nate Jones homepage Shlok Khemani homepage FrontierCode benchmark blog Lovelace AI company Andrew Moore Wikipedia profile Geoffrey Irving homepage Daniel Murfet LessWrong profile Sequent Research announcement Timaeus research organization Automated Alignment paper Goodfire AI company Tom McGrath homepage Predictive data debugging tool prinzbench legal benchmark Unit distance conjecture disproof Dario Amodei policy essay Vending-Bench 2 benchmark Andon Labs site Recursive Superintelligence startup Sakana AI company PostTrainBench benchmark Thoughtful Lab company Unit distance conjecture arXiv Glean Work AI Index AI Treaty open letter Karina Nguyen homepage Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

June 10, 20261 hr 46 min

Babysitting the Machine: Glean's Rebecca Hinds on the Hidden Human Labor of AI at Work

Rebecca Hinds, author of "Your Best Meeting Ever" and Head of the Work AI Institute at Glean, breaks down the surprising findings from the new Work AI Index 2026 report surveying 6,000 workers. While 87% now use AI and report saving 13 hours per week, only 13% say their organization is performing significantly better—a paradox explained by two new concepts: "botsitting" (the hidden labor of making AI useful) and "botshitting" (delivering AI-generated work you can't defend). They discuss practical solutions including better-integrated AI systems, smarter AI detection policies, and aligning work to meaningful missions. LINKS: Rebecca Hinds Personal Website Glean Work AI Institute Your Best Meeting Ever Book Glean Enterprise AI Platform Stanford Future of Work Glean Enterprise Graph Pangram Labs AI Detection OpenAI ChatGPT Product Page Anthropic Claude Product Page Google Gemini Product Page Microsoft 365 Copilot Page Glean AI Transformation 100 Rebecca Hinds LinkedIn Profile Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (03:22) Grounding AI adoption (06:46) Methodology and Glean (12:25) Productivity paradox emerges (Part 1) (20:31) Sponsor: Claude (22:22) Productivity paradox emerges (Part 2) (25:36) Bot sitting burden (34:00) Hidden time savings (39:56) Meaning versus automation (47:14) Enterprise graph potential (53:13) Detecting bot slop (01:00:32) Retention and incentives (01:07:54) Transformation and mission (01:20:06) AI teammate model (01:26:01) Future organizational design (01:32:31) Research and meetings (01:41:43) Episode Outro (01:45:07) Outro PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

June 6, 20261 hr 22 min

AI in the AM — Week 1 Highlights (June 2026)

This first highlights edition of the morning experiment tracks a week of fast-moving AI frontier news, from closed-door recursive self-improvement debates to OpenAI’s call for independent model review. You’ll hear why labs are betting on AI monitors, where safety plans still look thin, and how cheap scaffolds are already improving tax workflows. The episode also tests moderation progress and surveys AI science, cybersecurity, Vatican ethics, solo-business automation, and mental health support. Mercury: Run your finances with virtual cards, spending limits, merchant/category locks, and AI-friendly tools like API keys, MCP, and CLI. Check out Mercury at https://mercury.com Sponsor: Claude: Claude by Anthropic is an AI collaborator that understands your workflow and helps you tackle research, writing, coding, and organization with deep context. Get started with Claude and explore Claude Pro at https://claude.ai/tcr

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