The Changing State of Talent Acquisition

Hosted by Graham Thornton

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Nov 2025

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About the show

The Changing State of Talent Acquisition cuts through the noise in the crowded world of recruitment marketing, employer branding, workforce intelligence, and AI. Hosted by Graham Thornton, President of Consulting & Growth at Talivity, this podcast brings you unfiltered conversations with industry founders, practitioners, and the occasional contrarian who's actually doing the work – not just selling you on it. We're not here to hype the next big thing. We're here to help you separate signal from noise, understand what's actually working (and what's just well-marketed), and make smarter, data-backed decisions about your talent strategy. You'll hear from TA leaders navigating real hiring challenges, founders building solutions worth paying attention to, and experts who see around corners before the rest of us catch up. Whether you're navigating the AI arms race, trying to figure out your tech stack, or just trying to hire better people faster – this is the podcast for people who care more about ROI than buzzwords.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

November 19, 2025Episode 7131 min

#71: Process First, Tools Second: Real AI Results from Healthcare Recruiting

Yvette Hansen has spent nearly two decades leading talent acquisition at major health systems: UnitedHealth Group, Optum, Amedisys, and most recently as Director of TA & Belonging at Baylor Scott & White Health. In that time, she's learned that healthcare doesn't let you chase shiny tools. High stakes, compliance requirements, and tight labor markets force a process-first mindset.But Yvette's also honest about what disappoints: vendors who oversell integration capabilities, tools that look great in demos but disrupt recruiter workflows, and the gap between "we can do that" and actually doing it. One vendor demo promised seamless integration. When implementation started? "Not so much."One surprising insight: healthcare is no longer lagging in tech adoption. Health systems have moved to the front of the pack on responsible AI implementation, proving that constraints can drive better outcomes.For TA leaders drowning in vendor pitches and paralyzed by options, this episode delivers a practical roadmap.

October 15, 2025Episode 7041 min

#70: Signal vs. Noise: Navigating the Crowded TA Tech Landscape

Fresh off conference season, Mark Tomasino and I break down what we actually saw on the show floor. The net out: If your differentiator is "AI-powered," you've already lost.We dig into the feedback loop nobody's talking about: job seekers using AI to mass apply to jobs, employers using AI to filter the noise, and the whole apparatus just... creating more work for all. Mark walks through his six-question framework for cutting through vendor pitches, why context matters more than the algorithm, and why the most interesting solutions may come from founders who've never worked in traditional TA.Also: why everyone's fishing from the same data ocean, what skills taxonomy actually means (and why you're probably not doing it), and Mark's contrarian take on why AI won't take our jobs – but it will expose which work shouldn't have been ours in the first place.If you're a TA leader trying to figure out where to put your AI budget, this one's for you.Talivity helps employers see what others miss – brand reputation risks, workforce shifts, and the real value of AI – so you can make smarter decisions and achieve measurable hiring outcomes. Learn more at Talivity.com.

May 15, 2025Episode 6939 min

#69: Recruitment Is Marketing: The Evolution of Talent Acquisition

In this episode of The Changing State of Talent Acquisition, hosts Graham Thornton and Martin Predd welcome Maria Christopoulos Katris, Founder and CEO of Built In. Maria shares her 15-year journey growing Built In from a Chicago-based tech community to a global recruitment platform, offering sharp insights into why traditional applicant tracking systems (ATS) are failing to capture the full candidate journey and how employer branding has become a cornerstone of modern talent acquisition. With Built In’s latest trends report as a backdrop, Maria reveals why companies are doubling down on employer brand investments and how referrals are surging as a top channel for tech talent—while also exposing the limitations of relying on them.Topics include:The evolution of recruitment from job boards to a marketing-driven disciplineWhy ATS source-of-hire data is only 20% accurate and how to move beyond itThe rise of employer branding as a core pillar of talent acquisitionThe surge in referrals for tech talent and their potential impact on diversityStrategies for improving candidate experience and treating applicants like consumersThe growing importance of employer branding for internal retentionHow to educate executives on the value of employer brand investments when ROI is challenging to measureLinks:Maria Christopoulos Katris, Founder and CEO of Built InLinkedIn Built In 2025 Talent Trend ReportConnect with the Built In team to learn more about how a recruitment marketing approach will help you attract top talent."Tune in to discover how to transform your talent acquisition strategy by embracing recruitment as marketing and building a candidate-centric employer brand that stands out in today’s competitive landscape.

May 7, 202539 min

#68: The AI Skills Gap: How Educational Institutions and Employers Can Prepare Workers for the Future

In this thought-provoking episode, we welcome Alex Swartsel, leader of JFF Labs Insights Practice at Jobs for the Future, to explore the growing AI skills gap and its implications for the future of work. Alex shares eye-opening research showing how AI usage in the workplace skyrocketed from 8% to 35% in just one year, while revealing a concerning disparity: 60% of employees are using AI for self-directed learning, yet only 16% have access to employer-provided AI tools.Our conversation dives into what makes a "quality job" in today's economy and JFF's ambitious mission to see 75 million Americans working in quality jobs within the next decade. Alex unpacks how AI is transforming both educational settings and workplaces, challenging traditional notions of digital literacy and reshaping the skills landscape.You'll discover why the most valuable future skills may not be AI-specific technical abilities, but rather the "human skills" that AI can't replicate—creativity, critical thinking, communication, and adaptability. Alex also explores how different educational institutions are navigating AI adoption and the policies that could help create more equitable access.Whether you're an HR professional, educator, or worker navigating this rapidly evolving landscape, this episode offers critical insights on how we can ensure AI becomes a technology that makes everyone better off, rather than deepening existing divides.Links: JFF Labs: The AI Ready Workforce Research FindingsJobs for the Future

April 16, 2025Episode 6733 min

#67: Building Human-Centric AI in HR Tech: From Fear to Adoption

In this episode, Kyle Lagunas of Aptitude Research discusses the crucial distinction between "human-in-the-loop" and truly "human-centric" AI approaches in HR. Drawing from his extensive 15-year career studying innovation cycles in HR tech, Kyle explains why adoption rates for AI in HR are stalling despite executive support, and offers practical strategies for building AI literacy within organizations.Topics Covered:The difference between human-in-the-loop vs. human-centric AI designWhy HR departments struggle with AI adoption and tech literacyPractical ways to increase AI literacy within HR teamsEvaluating AI use cases across impact, risk, and complexitySuccess stories and low-risk starting points for HR AI implementationMoving beyond the "bias boogeyman" in AI evaluationDiscover how to evaluate AI implementations and learn why many HR departments are starting their AI journey with conversational AI. This episode provides a nuanced framework for HR professionals looking to move beyond fear-based decision making and implement AI solutions that genuinely augment human capabilities.

March 27, 2025Episode 6637 min

#66: Hiring Humans in the Age of AI

In this episode of The Changing State of Talent Acquisition, we sit down with Craig Fisher—CEO of TalentNet Media, author of Hiring Humans, and one of the most respected voices in the HR tech space. From his early days in staffing to launching TalentNet Live, Craig has worn nearly every hat in the talent world.We explore why friction in the hiring process is actually a good thing, how AI tools can enhance rather than replace human connection, and why most companies are missing the mark on retention and employee advocacy. Craig also shares behind-the-scenes details on rewriting 13,000 job descriptions for one of the world's largest banks—and why SEO and contextual AI optimization are now table stakes for recruiting.Plus, he gives us a sneak peek at his upcoming book Paint Your Store, designed to help job seekers and solopreneurs level up their personal brands.Whether you're a recruiter, TA leader, or job seeker navigating today's AI-infused hiring landscape, this is one conversation you won't want to miss.🛠️ Topics covered:How social media shaped early recruitment marketingThe case for human friction in hiringWhy AI won't replace recruiters (but bad job descriptions might)Tactical tips for job SEO and optimizing for AI searchThe overlooked power of onboarding and employee advocacy🔗 Learn more about Craig's work: hiring-humans.com New episodes every week at changestate.io

March 19, 2025Episode 6546 min

#65: The Future of Work: How AI, Gig Economy, and Fractional Employment Are Redefining Careers

In this episode of The Changing State of Talent Acquisition, we sit down with Rishad Tobaccowala—author, speaker, and strategist with 37 years of leadership experience at Leo Burnett and Publicis Groupe—to explore the shifting dynamics of work in the age of AI and digital transformation.Rishad shares insights from his books Rethinking Work and Restoring the Soul of Business, diving into the rise of task-based employment, the growing trend of fractional roles, and how both individuals and companies must adapt. We discuss:Why the traditional full-time job is evolving into a modular, task-based systemThe "Company of One" mindset and how fractional employment creates flexibility for both companies and workersHow companies can foster strong cultures without relying on physical office presenceThe six essential skills individuals need to stay relevant in the AI-driven future of workIf you've ever wondered what the future of employment looks like—and how to prepare—this episode is a must-listen.Connect with Rishad Tobaccowala:Books: Rethinking Work & Restoring the Soul of BusinessNewsletter: rishad.substack.comPodcast: What Next?

March 4, 2025Episode 6440 min

#64: Rethinking Upskilling: On Building Resilient Careers in an AI-Driven World

In this episode of the Changing State of Talent Acquisition, hosts Graham Thornton and Martin Predd are joined by Matthew J. Daniel, Senior Principal of Talent Strategy at Guild, for a deep dive into the evolving nature of skills and career development. Matthew shares insights from his diverse background in learning, talent development, and in-house strategy, challenging the notion of a rapid "half-life" for skills and advocating for a more nuanced approach to skill-building in today’s fast-changing market.Topics include:The Durable Skillset vs. the Half-Life Myth: Rethinking the idea that all skills quickly become obsolete and emphasizing the enduring value of fundamental abilities like communication and problem-solving.Building a Skill Portfolio: How to strategically invest in skills as long-term career assets rather than viewing them as fleeting data points.AI’s Role in Upskilling: Exploring where organizations are on the Gartner hype cycle for AI and practical approaches to integrating AI into talent development without over-reliance on outdated models.Practical Strategies for Talent Development: From auditing current AI usage among employees to designing learning strategies that address both immediate needs and future capabilities.Join us for a candid conversation that bridges the gap between HR strategy and real-world application in the era of AI, and discover actionable insights to help your organization and employees stay ahead of the curve.Matthew J. Daniel, Senior Principal of Talent Strategy, GuildLinkedIn

February 25, 2025Episode 6344 min

#63: Workforce Risk – On Navigating Demographics, AI & the Changing American Dream

This week Graham and Marty sit down with Cole Napper, VP of Research and Innovation at Lightcast and host of the Directionally Correct Podcast, to dive into groundbreaking research on workforce risk. Cole draws on his extensive people analytics experience—from multinational corporations to startups—to shed light on Lightcast’s Workforce Risk Report and its roots in earlier studies like Demographic Drought and Rising Storm.Topics include: • Workforce Demographics & Skills Gap: How retiring baby boomers, a shrinking Gen Z, and declining college enrollment are fueling a critical skills mismatch that could leave 85 million jobs unfilled.• Impact of AI & Technological Change: Why AI is more about augmenting roles than replacing them, and the urgent need for upskilling and reskilling.• Industry Examples & Organizational Response: Comparing companies like Walmart and Amazon to illustrate how different business models can face vastly different workforce risks—and why proactive talent investments matter.• Reframing the American Dream: Rethinking the four-year degree as the sole path to success, and exploring how trades and skills-based hiring offer a more sustainable future. Cole Napper, VP Research & Innovation, Lightcasthttps://www.linkedin.com/in/colenapper/Lightcast Risk Outlook

February 19, 2025Episode 6243 min

#62: The Promise of AI – Aligning Efficiency with the Candidate (and Recruiter) Experiences

This week we welcome David Ellis to the podcast. David started his career as a recruiter in New Zealand, before relocating to Europe to work as a talent consultant. After earning his PhD, he moved to Boston to join Korn Ferry, where he currently sits as SVP of Talent Transformation. Topics include:The future of talent acquisition, how AI can streamline processes while enriching candidate experiences, how to strike the right balance between AI and human touch, the ethical considerations when training AI, AI in high volume recruiting vs. executive recruiting, the shift towards skills-based hiring, talent acquisition roles of the future, the debate over hybrid work, the importance of critical thinking, approaches to measuring the ROI of artificial intelligence, and how AI is already empowering “wow” moments in recruitingDavid EllisSVP of Talent Transformation, Korn FerryLinked InArticles:Korn Ferry’s Talent Trends 2025: Progress Over Perfection