#299: AI Can (Help) Build the Dashboard. It Can’t Build the Buy-In.
There are roughly a thousand ways to roll out a new analytics platform, a BI tool migration, or an AI initiative to your organization. Most of them involve a town hall, an email with a link to some training materials, and the quiet hope that everyone figures it out. Most of them also don’t really work. On this episode, Yehonatan Schwarzmer joined Michael, Val, and Tim to bring some long-overdue organizational change management thinking into the analytics conversation. Yehonatan has the unusual combination of real-world experience in both change management consulting and data leadership, which makes him exactly the right person to explain why the technical rollout is the easy part. The harder part is understanding that when someone says “this tool doesn’t have what I need,” they might really be saying “I was the hero in the old system and I don’t know who I’ll be in the new one.” The Kübler-Ross grief model shows up. Psychological safety shows up (reluctantly). And Val’s question about who analysts should recruit to help them manage change at scale almost gets answered. This episode is brought to you by Prism from Ask-Y—your agentic analytics platform for automating analytics, exploring data, creating repeatable workflows, and delivering accurate insights—all without the need for manual query writing. This episode is also brought to you by Stape, your all-in-one solution for server-side tagging. Links to Resources Mentioned in the Show Prosci Kübler-Ross Change Curve Five Stages of Grief #184: Psychological Safety and Analytics with J.D. Long McKinsey 7S Framework Kotter’s Change Management Theory The Digital Delusion by Jared Horvath How AI is Redefining the Role of Analytics Leadership by Eric Sandosham Let My People Code by Noah Omri Levin Marketing Analytics Summit Can You Teach an AI Ethics? by Gary Angel Photo by Brad Starkey on Unsplash Episode Transcript00:00:00 | Announcer: Welcome to the Analytics Power Hour. 00:00:08 | Announcer: Analytics topics covered conversationally and sometimes with explicit language. 00:00:12 | Michael Helbling: Hi, everybody. 00:00:15 | Michael Helbling: Welcome. This is the Analytics Power Hour, and this is Episode 299. You know, in the movie Godfather, Michael Corleone takes over the family in a time of crisis. And he quickly moves Tom, his adopted brother, out of his role as consigliere. His reason for this was because Tom wasn’t a wartime consigliere. In times of great change, I guess it’s important to recognize the need for different styles of leadership and approaches to our work. And, oh, I mean, AI is kind of putting every company on a, quote, wartime footing, I guess, in that survival, our ability to predict and normal cycles of growth, even our own understanding of the levers of business are kind of being transformed. And how do you manage it all? All of this filters down to analytics because AI is making some things much easier, but potentially creating some downstream challenges that could be very, very damaging. So it’s time to put on your wartime consigliere hat and embrace the change. I mean, it’s already underway. So let me introduce you to my co-hosts, Val, “Ground Truth” Kroll. How are you doing? 00:01:25 | Val Kroll: I’m good. Now that I’ve Googled consigliere and those roles from the Godfather. Yeah. 00:01:31 | Michael Helbling: Just keep doing it the Chicago way. That’s right. Got it. 00:01:35 | Val Kroll: Got it. And, of course, Tim, the last word, Wilson, how are you doing? 00:01:42 | Tim Wilson: Doing quite fine. 00:01:43 | Michael Helbling: And I’m, my goal, the diplomat, Helbley. All right. We needed a guest. Somebody could walk us through what’s happening, how to react to it, and I think we found a great one. Yehonatan Schwarzmer is the director of business intelligence at Networx. He’s also held analytics leadership positions at Search Discovery now further. He has done organizational development consulting and he has a master’s degree in industrial and organizational psychology from Columbia University. And today he is our guest. Welcome to the show, Yehonatan. Thank you. 00:02:15 | Val Kroll: I’m very happy to be here. 00:02:17 | Michael Helbling: Great to have you. 00:02:19 | Val Kroll: Okay. 00:02:20 | Michael Helbling: So I think there’s a lot to get into here, but I think, you know, in your world, you’ve kind of lived across two different distinct worlds in your career. One is sort of this idea of change management as its own practice and then analytics as its own sort of discipline within the business. So like, as you see those two things sort of come together in this moment, like what are the things you’re noticing in the community that you’re in? 00:02:46 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: The idea of change management is one that we all focus on as a topic by itself. You know, we have an issue or we see that there’s a company or organization struggling with shifting or a change that they know is coming and the feelings that come along with that. And so there’s a lot to talk about with change management. Some people think about it like organizational therapy or some other label that we stick on it, but separate from the question of what is change management, it also has to do with what it is that you’re managing a change of. And specifically when you talk about the management of change in the world of analytics, it really focuses on a lot of the big questions that come up that you typically explore in the world of data and analytics, just with an eye towards what is happening on the people side of these changes? How are the people being affected? How are they going to approach it? How do we think about that so that the change is seamless and gets us to where we want to be and we’ve gotten everything we want out of it? You know, when I shifted, kind of talk about two worlds, so when I shifted into the world of analytics from the world of pure change management, right? Pure change management. So we were doing consulting to companies and talking about, you know, leadership development. There was like conflict resolution, especially when you have those like family companies and you know, lots of the issues that come up with those types of things. And then you shifted to the world of analytics and it starts with what’s the number, talk about the numbers, just the numbers, but then really, really quickly, you get to the understanding that it’s not just about the numbers. 00:04:22 | Val Kroll: And if you only focus on the numbers, you’re going to miss a big part of the value that 00:04:26 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: can be delivered. You really have to understand the people involved in it. And that’s where the cross between the two topics became very exciting. 00:04:35 | Tim Wilson: It does seem like you said something in that that the one change, figuring out how to get where you’re trying to go to. And I guess, is it fair to say in the world of data and analytics, it seems like often there is where we want to go to is being data driven or being it’s kind of like this squishy aspirational, we want to use the data to make decisions. But that’s not really like the future state hasn’t been fully formed. It’s kind of more of this aspirational idea. Does that not bring challenge? Because if you haven’t really defined the destination, which I guess is also a temporal thing, because the destination is always going to keep moving. Is that a particular challenge if you’re doing change management and you’re not acknowledging how the future should look different from today? Yes, of course. 00:05:34 | Val Kroll: There’s a couple of the typical or the classic issues that you’re going to bump 00:05:41 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: into either when you are doing change management or that come up that make you realize we should really be managing this change. So one of them for sure is we don’t really have a vision for what this change is supposed to be. Of course, we don’t have people on the bus. Nobody knows where the bus is going or we have 10 different buses and they’re going in 10 different directions and people have to decide which ones they want to get on. So for sure, defining it is one of the critical components. There’s a number of critical components. You talk about things like defining the vision. You talk about things like making sure that you have buy-in that you’ve dealt 00:06:12 | Val Kroll: with resistance, that you have a organizational sponsorship. 00:06:16 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Let’s say a primary sponsor, someone who’s really going to make sure that this thing is managed the way that it needs to be. So there’s a bunch of them. But for sure, having a vision or where it is that we’re supposed to be is one of the fundamentals. 00:06:28 | Val Kroll: I love the way you put some of that introduction. It has me thinking like whether I should adjust my definition or how I think about it a little bit. That is something that happens separate. So I guess there’s the concept of like changes happening, whether you’re managing it or not. And so you have to make the choice for it to be an active part of whatever is in scope. But do you think of it as like if it were one of several work streams, if you will, on a project, is that missing the boat because it’s not like interwoven with the other activities on the project? Or is that healthy because then you can kind of give it its own time and attention and like the capital letters of the name of the work stream? Or like how do you kind of consider that in the scope of or in the context, I should say, of like a larger initiative or project? 00:07:17 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: I think that as with most of these types of questions, the answer is going to be it depends, which is only because there are so many pieces that come into it. You know, we talk about a change. So you think about a small startup that’s quickly shifting, you know, every month, it seems to focus on something new and different. You talk about a very large bureaucracy where someone has come in and says that the way that we’ve been doing things for the past 20 years just isn’t working. You talk about a company that’s turned around and said, oh, my goodness, we’re falling behind in the AI bandwagon and we better get everybody on board as quickly as we can. You know, these the changes that we’re talking about, they there’s not one type. And because there’s not one type, there really isn’t one answer. People who love change management sometimes tend to think of it as a hammer and everything is a nail. And it’s a terrible hammer because there there are so many things that happen separate from the people side and the people’s dealing of the change. You know, we say change management is so important because if you don’t deal with the people, then you’re going to really struggle. That’s true. But if you’re just dealing with the people and let’s say you’ve forgotten about the strategy, for example, or the vision, then you’re not really much better off. So when I say it depends, I think of really a couple of different axes that you’d you’d want to think about that. It depends factor on, so, for example, what type of change is it an incremental change, something small changing, probably doesn’t need a lot of management. Is it a transition or shifting something underlying or much more critical to our regular operations? Or on the other end of the spectrum, is this a huge fundamental shift? And we have to redefine our identity, let’s say we have to become something that we weren’t before. So that’s one way to think about it. What’s the motivation? Where does it come from? You know, you have these, especially now, you know, you get some less startup that pops up and they’re very excited and, you know, they’re running in one direction and they know that they’re working in an uncertain world and then things change around and they’re like, this is amazing, a new challenge. And they turn around and they go in that direction. And then they, you know, and it’s a group of, you know, six or seven or eight people and they’re charging in this direction, they’re charging in their interaction and we can talk about whether that’s good or not good. But the management of the change and the willingness of the people to go along is 100% as opposed to the next level up, which is a change imposed, but it’s imposed internally. So let’s say you have a new leadership and they come in and they say, from now on, we’re going to do it this way. I’ve looked at how we’re doing it. It’s not going to work. We got to do something new or I found a new capability. And so there are some people pushing for it inside and some people have to kind of get along with that. And then the third kind is you’ve got an externally driven change that the people on the inside never really asked for, but they don’t have a choice. So all three of those categories are going to react to the change in a very different way. And so the, the management of it, how necessary that is, really does defend and depend, and then there’s the, the organization itself, you know, you’ve got some organizations that are oriented towards learning. They love learning. They love conversations. They love that free flow of what’s working. What’s not working. Let’s be honest with each other. Let’s move the ideas forward, et cetera. You have others that are a little bit more calcified and not as willing to move things along. Um, and then you have some that are just, let’s take it as it goes. You know, we, we, we don’t necessarily point to those as the, uh, the way things are supposed to be, but there are some places where management is, is kind of a committee and decisions are made by committee. And we all know what that looks like. So there are lots of ways that a change could be imposed and lots of ways to respond to it. And so depending on that determines the level at which you have to manage change as a separate thing from your project or as integrated within the project itself. I’m going to stop there and see if that makes sense. I could, I could talk about that for far too long. 00:11:23 | Val Kroll: So I’m going to stop there. Well, we have a whole episode to dive in. 00:11:28 | Tim Wilson: Michael, exciting news. Claude, co-work is here for prism. 00:11:33 | Michael Helbling: Finally, because I’ve got some GA for BigQuery exports and frankly, they look like somebody shredded a website and taught the various pieces 00:11:40 | Tim Wilson: accounting. That’s why ask dash y.ai built the prism, co-work connector, which is quite a literative. Your GA for BigQuery now has a smart analyst that actually speaks GA for. That includes having funnel and cohort analysis baked in ready to run right out of the box. 00:11:59 | Michael Helbling: Oh, that’s huge because I mean, half the time GA for speaks in riddles, event parameters and frankly, emotional damage. 00:12:07 | Tim Wilson: I don’t think that’s what it has, but co-work ships with sessionization built on GA for his own methodology as a baked in skill. 00:12:16 | Michael Helbling: Okay, I do love that because my session start final actual real query can finally be sent to the farm upstate. 00:12:24 | Tim Wilson: And every analysis becomes a shareable page. Prism auto generates a dashboard page directly from within co-work. 00:12:32 | Michael Helbling: Oh, no copy paste, no screenshot archeology, no, please ignore the column 00:12:36 | Val Kroll: named temp fix to nope. 00:12:39 | Tim Wilson: And co-work brings the whole prism brain, the analytics agent, harness skills, memory engine, everything. 00:12:46 | Michael Helbling: I like an organized analysis and it sounds like it provides that traceable, audible and ready to use with your other data sets. 00:12:54 | Tim Wilson: Exactly. You might have to do some adjusting to your personality and standard way of working. Well, I do feel threatened, but you know, in a growth mindset way. All right. We’ll go to ask-y.ai. That’s ask-the-letter y.ai and sign up for the waitlist. Use code APH to jump to the top. 00:13:13 | Michael Helbling: Yeah, that’s ask-y.ai code APH. Hey, Tim. How confident are you that your website tracking setup is actually giving you usable data? 00:13:30 | Tim Wilson: Well, confident is a strong word with browser changes, cookie limits, tag conflicts and messy marketing stacks. Measure pet can get complicated pretty fast. 00:13:42 | Michael Helbling: I agree. That’s why we’ve partnered with STAPE. STAPE is an all-in-one solution for server-side tagging, helping teams improve quality and the reliability of their data collection. 00:13:53 | Tim Wilson: And if your tracking is incomplete, duplicated or misconfigured, your reports may be pointing you in the wrong direction. 00:14:01 | Michael Helbling: Yeah, but you can use STAPE to clean up your server-side data collection, improve your conversion attribution, and that’ll help you make better use of your marketing budget. 00:14:12 | Tim Wilson: They also have a free website tracking checker. Enter your domain, scan your site, and in under two minutes, you get a personalized report. 00:14:20 | Michael Helbling: Yeah, I like how it has prioritized recommendations, some competitor comparisons, and AI-powered suggestions. 00:14:26 | Tim Wilson: So before the next is-the-data-wrong meeting, go get your free report. Visit STAPE.IO, that’s STAPE.IO, and use the free website tracking checker to get your personalized report. 00:14:39 | Michael Helbling: All right, and now back to the show. 00:14:44 | Tim Wilson: When you talk about, like, the organization, whether the organization is kind of geared towards learning or geared towards being static, like, do you run into the people within an organization? Like, people who are saying we should always be, we should keep adjusting and changing the way that we’re doing things versus the extreme, you know, who move my cheese, people. 00:15:09 | Val Kroll: Like, what defines, like, the organization’s nature or culture or 00:15:16 | Tim Wilson: whatever the right label is for that to say, how much is change accepted as part of something that’s always going on versus change is something that we want to minimize? How does that work? 00:15:28 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: You were going to walk into an organization, you would have no idea. So there’s kind of the abstract part of your question, which is what is the reality of an organization? And then there’s the question of, how do we figure out what the reality of the company is so we can actually work with them? Um, I’m more comfortable with the second one because that’s the way that I typically think about it, is if we’re going to work with a group of people, let’s try to figure out where they are. 00:15:53 | Tim Wilson: So what, so I guess what are the, what are the tells there? Cause I think, I mean, a lot of people are in an organization. So I’ve never really thought about my organization through that lens. What kind of organization am I in? 00:16:03 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: One of the topics I think that’s going to come up whenever you talk about this, either you talk about it as kind of the basic definition of organizational change, or you think about it as one of the fundamentals that you have to address is resistance. So we talk about readiness, but we also talk about resistance. And they’re not necessarily two sides of the same coin, right? Some people could be not ready because they just aren’t skilled or they don’t have the experience while others are actively resistant to a change. And so there’s, when there’s an organization called prosci, which has 00:16:38 | Val Kroll: a lot of resources related to organization change and managing the change. 00:16:44 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: And they have a lot of models. And one of the models that’s really simple, but I found really useful is look at two spectrums to get a sense back to your question of how much management of the change do we need? One of the spectrums that we look at is the degree or the complexity of the change. Is it a significant change? Is it a small thing? And then the second one is what is the anticipated resistance? Meaning how much work will we have to do to push this change through? And that really opens up the whole question to what is the barrier to change management and how do you address that barrier? And the way that I think about it is that within change management, this is a discrete question, meaning it’s a, it’s a topic within change management, but you could easily see how this can kind of blend into every question that has to do with managing a change, which is at the end of the day. All right, what about those people that aren’t going to come along? So I’d rather think about it in the way that it is a topic within change management, because there’s a lot else that we could talk about separate from the resistance, but let’s, let’s focus on that part as a topic by itself, which is what are your barriers and how do you address them? 00:18:00 | Val Kroll: So there could be a lot of barriers, meaning when I said before that 00:18:07 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: resistance is not necessarily the opposite to being ready. When a lot of times you see a big change being pushed at a company, you get 00:18:17 | Val Kroll: the mindset of, well, I was really clear on what we’re trying to do. 00:18:23 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: And I had a town hall and I spoke to people about it and I have training available and I probably have office hours ready. And there’s a lot of crickets, meaning either people just aren’t interested or people are still kind of doing their own thing. Or it seems to me that they’re just waiting for this initiative to pass by just like all the other ones so they can get back to their real jobs, you know, whatever it might be. And there’s a lot of confusion. I don’t understand. Like we invested a lot. You know, we bought this new platform or we’ve got this new training or the company has to make some sort of a shift or we’ve got a new strategy or whatever it is. I expected maybe not a rallying cry, but at least people to be aware and show that they’re moving along with us. And I don’t feel that either. They’ve got their heels dug in or they’ve just kind of put their head down and they’re they’re waiting for it to pass. So what why is that? What’s what’s happening here? A lot of times when you start the conversation, it can be useful to talk about this this curve of change management. It’s it’s a model, actually. They’re trying because of you. The the Kubler-Ross model of change. Kubler-Ross model, right, which which is great. Like it’s a great, simple way to talk about here’s something that we can anticipate so that we all have our expectations pointed the same direction. Meaning if we are going to introduce a change and the change is going to be somewhat disruptive, again, we’re not changing, you know, the the the water cooler, we’re changing something that’s going to make a difference to people. And so we can expect that that’s going to affect people and the effect is likely going to mean that there is going to be number one, a decrease in productivity for a time as we shift over and we acclimate ourselves to the change and there are going to be people who need to become comfortable with the 00:20:07 | Val Kroll: change and potentially during that process of discomfort, you will see 00:20:13 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: productivity decline or you will see ancillary things. People might look a little bit more disgruntled. They’re more whispering. You may see whatever it is. 00:20:22 | Val Kroll: So how do you what do you do about that? 00:20:25 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Why why is that? What do you expect? So when we think about it and the nice thing about the the model is it’s really a simple visual where you’ve got pretty much a line coming across on your time axis and then it dips down and then it slowly curves back up to where it was and then it continues up to be higher than where it was when you started and that’s the idea of what we’re trying to do here. The reason that we’re making a change is because we believe it will improve our performance. So if you look at the y-axis as performance and you say I want my performance to be higher, I’m going to go through this period of change, get my performance higher, even though that means that the cost will be for a period of time, there’s going to be a drop. There’s going to be a dip in performance and we’re going to have to work our way through that. And one way that we can think of change management is the benefit of change management is it minimizes the length and degree of the dip. So either you will be in a period of decreased productivity for a shorter period of time or it will have less of an effect. It won’t fall down as much. You know, in an extreme case, you get some people who just say, I don’t know what to do, I give up and they sort of clock out and you really get nothing for quite some time until they finally realize what’s going on or the fact that their jobs depend on it or whatever it is. And it’s time to get on board with the program. Typically, it’s not that type of thing, but the question of what will it take for someone to understand the value of this change and why we all have to get on board and what we need to do about it is where you get to getting back to the line that you were before and then getting higher. The other reason it’s useful to think about it in that model is because the person who created that model, that model was actually the second model. The original model was actually the famous model that we all know, which is the five stages of grief, which is fascinating because they came up with this idea of the stages of grief. And then after that, it evolved into a model of change management. And there’s an implication there. What does it mean that we learn from grief to what change management is? But it’s very helpful to think of it in those terms, not because change is devastating all the time, but because you have to understand that change has a real impact on people. And when you think about grief and the stages that people go through, right? So that, again, that classic model that people generally are familiar with, you’ve got your denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, right? So in change also, you’ve got your shock or denial. You’ve got your resistance, then you get maybe exploration or testing. And then finally, acceptance and then commitment. Right? 00:22:58 | Tim Wilson: Can we pause for a minute so listeners can kind of think about like the migration to do their own explore, perhaps that explains so much. There was, I mean, that was like the industry change management and the anger part. 00:23:14 | Val Kroll: Say, where are we stuck? 00:23:15 | Tim Wilson: That’s a very helpful. It could be a long process as long as it’s a process. But just to pick on and we keep coming out of like, well, there’s like a million different types of change, a million different forces, a million, I’m a little concerned. I want to kind of dive into something a little more specific. I mean, because my concern, it’s like, well, gee, it’s all over the place. So I want to push, I made the GA4 crack, but I feel like there have been platform changes. We’re moving from Domo to Power BI or moving from Power BI to Tableau or moving from Adobe Analytics to Amplitude, which there is some motivation to the change in the framing of the performance going up. 00:24:11 | Val Kroll: That’s like the change is either the licensing is getting out of hand or 00:24:17 | Tim Wilson: there’s a gap in what we can access. But I think of that dip on the Kubler-Ross curve is always somebody saying, I mean, the way you were talking through the crickets and it’s rolling out, it seems like what often is getting heard by the organization is, it’s going to be better. And then they just kind of wait until it’s there and it’s tangible. And then they look at it and they’re like, where’s that number that I used to get every Monday morning and they’re reacting to it. So in that context of this is a change is being imposed because some subset in the company made a decision, or I’m sure in Google Analytics for the 00:25:01 | Val Kroll: vendor made a decision, but the change is happening and it’s going to happen on a certain timeline. 00:25:08 | Tim Wilson: Like, what do you do when you’re thinking through what those barriers are? Like, it does feel like the organization thinks of the barriers as being the technical cutover and training and office hours are kind of, they’re like, well, this is overcoming the technical barriers and it’s going to overcome the people don’t know how to use the new tool. And it sounds like you were saying, yeah, but there’s like other barriers that those components don’t address. So like, how do you identify those barriers and then address them? 00:25:43 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: One of the things that you said is really critical to this. The idea that I knew where my number was and now I don’t know where to find it. And it’s funny, like when I when I talk about the the concept of a change management model flowing from a grief model. And there’s like an extreme there. But in a sense, people are maybe mourning is a strong word, but they feel sad. They feel like something is missing. They feel like something important is no longer here. It might be the way that I was used to doing something was really comfortable. And now it’s gone and I have to do something uncomfortable. It may be much more fundamental than that. It may be in the old tool. I was the hero. I knew where everything was. I knew how to look good. Maybe in the new way, I won’t know how to look so good. So I’m giving up something much more fundamental, much more critical to myself. I make it about the tool. Well, this tool doesn’t have XYZ, but I’m really a little bit concerned. Number one, I may not be so good at it. Or number two, let’s say we move to a platform where everybody’s just as good. And then when everybody’s special, then no one is. I lose that there are so many things that are lost in a change that every person experiences differently. Understanding those individual changes goes a long way towards understanding what can be done about it. So it’s not just about something like, hey, here’s the training. Here’s what can be done. But it might be something like you are the expert. And the reason you’re the expert is because you’ve got all this experience. And because of that, you are primed to be the one that can take on this new tool and help everybody move along and be seen as the one that really helped us make this significant change as an example. But it’s addressing what is it that this person is losing and how do you fill something in that can give them something that build them up? 00:27:28 | Val Kroll: So two part follow up to this, because this is exactly what I hope we would be getting into, too. So one is the high level, you know, process or arc that you guys have both referenced, like whether it’s, you know, the town hall announcement followed by an email with a couple of links to FAQs on some Confluence page. A couple of dates included brown bag lunches and like, let me know if you have any questions is the most common way that I’ve seen change managed across a lot of organizations. And if you’re talking about, you know, a tool changer, something like that, you’re talking about hundreds of users. So how do you, so this is the two part, how do you address the individual and like what their resistance is or like the loss that they’re mourning at scale? And then two, how, like, who, who could an analyst recruit to help them through some of this? Because a lot of times we’re doing that program, not because we don’t care about managing the change well, but we really haven’t seen it modeled other ways necessarily. And so is there someone else in the organization that people should be tapping into, or is this another muscle that analysts really need to build themselves? 00:28:41 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: So that’s my two for it is a challenging question. One of the reasons it’s a challenging question is because even again, going back to this organization, ProSci, who talks a lot about sort of the fundamentals, like what are the pieces that you want to make sure are in place? If you’re going to roll out a significant change, meaning you’re going to roll out a new tool and it’s going to affect a thousand people, right? Like that’s not a simple thing. It’s not something that can be solved with lunch, nor is it something could be, you know, solved by sitting down with every one of them and saying, I understand your pain. 00:29:12 | Val Kroll: What is it then that will overcome someone’s resistance? 00:29:15 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: And within those thousand people, we have to assume we’re not going to have a thousand people resisting, but we have to know who is. 00:29:22 | Val Kroll: And so maybe starting with what is it that overcomes that resistance in the 00:29:25 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: first place, and then how do you translate that into an actual plan for a thousand people? So when you think about overcoming the resistance, assuming that you have genuine resistance, you know, typically you’ll be able to overcome it in one of three ways. You’ll either get your, your desire, your entrained desire, you know, everybody talks about, you know, well, if it’s changed, it’s kind of a focus on the what’s in it for me, which is cliche and it’s true at the same time. 00:29:50 | Val Kroll: Right? 00:29:51 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Hey, with this tool, you will no longer have to deal with, right? Again, a lot of times we roll out a new tool and people immediately see, hey, this is really beneficial. That’s great. If people don’t see that, maybe you can sell them on it. Hey, let’s talk about the benefits. Let’s talk about the trade. Let’s talk about what we’re exchanging and what we’re trying to do. We’re exchanging and why we’re doing this and what benefits you get out of it and why that might be better for you. 00:30:13 | Val Kroll: There are, there is a one group that could be influenced by that because it’s 00:30:20 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: really true for them. There is a benefit. They didn’t see it before. They may not have understood it before. And so it’s not to say that the lunches and the trainings and everything else are useless. They’re not useless. They just tend to be that we focus on the areas that they didn’t work. But for a lot of people, it does work. 00:30:34 | Val Kroll: So you’ve got, you’ve got, you’ve got two more. 00:30:37 | Tim Wilson: But I feel like even calling that out, I think there’s a tendency to one parrot. What, in a tool perspective, it just parrots what the vendor has said the benefits are, which aren’t necessarily resonant with the company. The other is the people who are implementing often get so caught up in the, I think the logistics of how is this transition going to happen that does to me sounds like a, yeah, that is a miss. Like probably repetition of these are the benefits that are meaningful for you is actually that this is the little light bulb went on that it’s, it’s easy for that. It’s like, well, they just assume everybody knows, like, sure, everybody knows why we’re doing this. We told it when we sent out the first email and it sounds like that’s something that really should be restated with an opportunity for somebody to ask follow up questions. Like you said this benefit, but what does that really mean? 00:31:34 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: I think, right? I, I, I say yes. And actually that sort of blends into the second way, which is not such a distinctive way, but it’s the, you know, the, the FOMO approach, the, you know, the, the missing out, meaning if you do get a group of people and they are making significant progress or they do experience some real benefit, then very often that will kind of push the people on the other side to say, I didn’t realize this was, but now that I see what it actually looks like once people are doing it. And this could be because, listen, if you explain it to me at a town hall versus I see someone that’s actually doing it, totally different thing. Um, but as more people start using it, as you start building a little bit of a snowball, again, it’s funny because a lot of these things are sort of seen as cliched and we roll our eyes, but this actually is where people get influenced. When I see someone is doing something and I understand how that translates directly to me, I am much more likely to want some of that. So whether you can build that consciously or you get enough of a groundswell going, then you have a significant leg up from where you were when you were just again, having that brown bag lunch where it was very theoretical to people and most people were not thinking about how amazing this will be for them. It’s morning, what they’re losing. 00:32:48 | Tim Wilson: So, so is this one related? I’m thinking through a client that actually three of us worked on together that that is, that is picking the people who are getting on board and kind of stacking the deck for them to be not just successful themselves, but successful and elevated in public way. I mean, and it’s a little bit of getting them to be champions amongst their peers, but also it’s like, well, yeah, help them, let help them be successful with it. And they’re still going to be talking about what the job is. It’s just if whatever the change, whatever the process or technology change slips into that, then it sort of becomes the subtext. I mean, you know, oh, I thought about this stuff differently and here, look, now I’m actually saying something that’s useful and interesting and actionable. 00:33:40 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Yes, is the answer. And I actually, I want to address it, but I want to take one slight detour first because you’re actually, you’re also talking about the third way, which is going to transition right into this. So if the first way is, you know, what’s in it for me? And the second way is kind of the pull as people fear that they’re missing out and they see benefit and they want part of it. The third way is the push, the authority, let’s say, meaning at the end of the day, there are some people that will say, well, I don’t like it. And, you know, whatever it is. And then to have a leadership to say, this is something that is important enough for us as an organization that we will, we need to make this change for whatever reason. And so you have to make a choice. You got to get on board because this is the direction that we’re going in. Meaning there are some people who have the mindset, I’m just going to keep doing it the way that I’m doing it and it’ll probably be fine. At a certain point, that’s not going to work. And so you don’t want it to become a conflict if you can avoid it. But the reality, call it a last course, if you will, but if people aren’t going to buy into it and they’re not going to see the benefits, then they may see, all right, listen, it’s at least better for me to go along with it than the alternative, which I would rather not have. 00:34:51 | Michael Helbling: Okay, so I want to pull in AI now because a lot of organizations are getting this mandate like forcing function with very little instruction on what that actually means because no one really understands what all the parameters are. So you sort of have this existential force, right? So this externality, this forcing change, the leadership is saying, we’re going to become an AI driven organization. We got everybody report back on, I mean, in the most extreme examples, like how many tokens you’re using every day, which, wow. But like, so bringing that into the world of analytics, it’s like, oh, so what am I supposed to be doing now that there’s a dictate to make a change but no instruction for what change is exactly to make or how to make them or that kind of thing. So like that creates sort of like, I feel like a failed structure in a way of like running change management. So like, how do you sort of, how do you exist? 00:35:57 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: This is just as fun as I thought it would be just for the record. So I want to, let me, let me do this then. I want to get to your question, but I’m going to take a detour first, which is to go on to Tim’s question, which was what the original detour was from because that’s going to get back to your question. Right. So, so Tim. Well, so, you know, you were talking about how do you get those thousand people or what does a leadership group do or how do you get beyond the lunch and learn to whatever it is. And there really are a couple of ways. And then Michael, this is going to get directly to your question, because when you talk about AI, we’re really hitting, you know, every single one of these things, right? It’s a, it’s a huge change. It’s fundamental. It potentially undermines and creates this real fear for people of what am I giving up? Am I going to be able to do it? Will other people get there before me? And what will that mean for me? I don’t even know what it looks like. We haven’t defined the vision. Nobody is even telling me what it’s supposed to look like. They’re just giving me some basic mile markers of more and no one knows what that is. How will I even know if I was successful? How will they know if I was successful, right? There’s, there’s so many areas for that concern. 00:37:09 | Val Kroll: And that’s even before we get to, you know, the complexity of AI. 00:37:14 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Really, this could be with any large change, but it’s only exacerbated when we talk about AI. So overall, when we talk about making a significant change and you’re trying to understand how do you, how do you connect the dots, right? I’ve got a lot of people who don’t understand. I’ve got a lot of people who are afraid and I’ve got a lot of people who are resistant. What am I supposed to do? So there’s a much longer discussion that I’m sure, you know, we can have. But in a nutshell, it really does go back to even some of the things that you were saying, which is maybe don’t hit everybody at the same time or maybe think about who it is that you want to talk to first and not think about this as one monolithic change. That could either mean something like, let’s find the early adopters, the people who are going to be excited and let’s talk to them about their role. Your, your role is not here because I want to teach you first. I want you to learn this faster than everyone else and then show everyone why you’re the star of the company of our most stinks. That’s not going to generally create the, the rainbow is feeling that you’re looking for. But if it is, listen, you, these people that I’m having a conversation with you, because I feel like you not only can be extraordinarily valuable to help our company elevate, but you can bring everyone along with you. And so the role that you’re going to play is to learn as much as you can, 00:38:31 | Val Kroll: demonstrate as much as you can, potentially be a resource for others. 00:38:35 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: I don’t know if that means that they have to have, let’s say office hours. I’ve seen that where, you know, if you learn it well, then you can offer your services as it were to others or just let them know that your door is open. But be that person that shows everyone what the potential looks like, where the excitement comes from, why we thought this was beneficial, and then help them along. That’s one potential way you can do it. Another way you can do it is by focusing on a different group. I’ve got a thousand people. Okay, out of these thousand people, you know, I have a certain number, which are, let’s say the managers, and then everyone else is the primary users that are going to be. So let me start with the managers. Hey, listen, we’re going to make this change. It’s going to be a really significant change. People are going to feel that impact and it’s going to be jarring. So I’m talking to you first, number one, let you know where we’re coming from, how you can best prepare, how you can enable your teams, how you can have conversations with them. A lot of times the conversation from leadership is best received when it’s something about the vision or the strategy or something like that. But reality is that when I, as a, you know, I’m on the front lines, I’m doing the work, I don’t want to hear from, you know, the person who sits on a screen and is, you know, the person I watch while I’m eating my lunch. I want to hear from my manager, the person I talk to every day. So sure, the leader, lay out the vision, help me understand where the company’s going, why this is beneficial, why this is a great thing, give me confidence in the company. All right, like, let me know this. But then when it comes to how is this going to affect me and how am I going to deal with these things that I’m struggling with? I want someone who knows me. So ideally it should be the person that I report to. So if the leader first talks to those people and then they’re better prepared to have that follow-up conversation. So you have the big lunch and then immediately after that, the manager sits with their group of eight people and says, 00:40:20 | Val Kroll: all right, everybody, these are some big things coming. 00:40:24 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: I’m sure there are some big feelings. Let’s talk about it. Or if you have questions or you need specific help, or if he said some things that weren’t so clear, or she mentioned something and you didn’t know what that means, let me, because the manager has already had the conversation with the leadership and doesn’t, it’s not the manager sitting, and a lot of times, the manager sits there just as clueless as everyone else, but they’re the manager, they’ve got no choice, they’ve got to take the hit. It’s like, okay, everybody, let’s talk about it. Those are great questions, I’ll get back to you. That is not going to instill confidence in anybody. But it means that rolling this out in not a, here’s the training that we will provide to everyone, but really being thoughtful about who can help us get everybody else on board, who is more likely to buy in, who is more likely to demonstrate the benefit, who is a manager who could really talk to people about their concerns. That’s one tactic if you’re talking about a change at scale, so that it’s not just this huge thing that you have to swallow all at once. I will say that another piece of this really does have to do with, I was trying to see if we could avoid the word culture in this entire conversation. And of course we can’t, but it’s difficult because culture means different things, different people, and it’s almost like an excuse word. I don’t want to use it as an excuse word, but the companies that have established a culture or work to establish a culture then enables these types of conversations and that orients everyone towards a very productive, aligned conversation will have a completely different experience than the ones in, let’s say, where there is no communication or everyone is fighting for themselves or there’s a lot of internal competitiveness 00:42:05 | Val Kroll: or there’s silos and turf 00:42:10 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: and very, very different conversations. I will tell you that in this, the concept itself I think is one that we can all understand. Practically, anyone who has seen it will understand the difference night and day in creating a culture in which these things are real versus where they’re not. I’ll give you just two quick examples. I have a mentor. He’s been a mentor of mine since like 20 years. One of those people that is just giving and kind and thoughtful and wise. His name is Tony DeKemper, lives in Baltimore. And when I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, I had some conversations with him. He was fantastic. And ever since then, he has been just incredibly guiding and he ran a company for a while. 00:42:58 | Val Kroll: And in that company, it was bizarre to me. 00:43:02 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: But any new hire who joined that company had to join a two-day course called Fundamentals of Communication. And it was all about how do we communicate? What is communication? What is the relationship between communication and establishing relationships with other people? How do you grow those? How do you value those? How do you make sure that you’re actually communicating what you mean? How do you make sure that you’ve heard what the other person is communicating? How do you make sure that your communications are designed to build something up instead of just to make your point or whatever else it might be? It was a real commitment on the part of the company and it changed everything. Because everybody who went through that experience, first of all, you go through that experience, you understand what the company is about, you understand that they really mean when they say, we really want to hear from you or something like that. But it also levels the playing field, which is another thing that I think is critical. You all, I think, know. Noah is a guy that I worked with for quite some time. 00:44:01 | Tim Wilson: He will make an appearance later on in this episode, by the way, just so you know. 00:44:05 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: You can only do well when he joins. But one of the things that I learned from him, and I mean, just working with him, you can learn something every day. But one of the things I learned from him is, when I joined Search Discovery, he was running teams, he was running meetings, and he always started the meetings the same way. He said, the purpose of our meetings to achieve something, and we will only be able to achieve it if all of us are guided by being open and transparent. If we are open and transparent with each other, then we can have real conversations that move things along. Otherwise, we’re going to get locked in, we’re going to get stuck. In those couple of words, that little preamble, he did so many things, and this is important for any kind of management of change. One of the things that he did is he did away with roles. In this meeting, sure, some of us have more experience, some of us have less, but we’re not coming in this in a hierarchy. We’re coming at this because we need to solve a problem. And if you have something that can contribute to solving the problem, and you keep that from us, all of us lose out because of that. You are valuable. Saying to someone that they are valuable versus telling someone they are valuable, I’m sorry, versus showing them that they’re valuable, meaning demonstrating it by saying, 00:45:19 | Val Kroll: I don’t think we have enough in this conversation 00:45:22 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: because we haven’t heard from this person and the experience that you’re going to bring is unique and no one else has it. 00:45:27 | Val Kroll: That changes the entire feeling of the conversation. 00:45:33 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: When we talk about overcoming the barriers to change management, I guess I’m just talking about a lot of different ways we could come at this, but the overall idea that, first of all, it doesn’t have to be one big thing that you have to crack with this entire group of as many people as it is that’s very challenging. And the other one is the norms that you establish from the beginning that you will then use to manage through the change instead of dropping it on people through the change because that is likely to end up with more resistance. And I mean, most of us have seen this, a big change is rolling out, and the company, the leadership, whatever it is, says, all of your opinions are important to us. We want to hear from all of you. What does that mean? It means that we made a little slot in the door. You could put that little paper in there, something we’ll find the key and we’ll get into the door. But for right now. 00:46:18 | Tim Wilson: We set up a special email address for you just in your questions too, so we don’t want to load a blind box. You could feel like you’re bringing people in 00:46:24 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: and you’re drawing people in and you’re bringing people together and you’re creating the alignment, but there is a difference between the kind of paper cut ways that don’t actually do it and the ways that make people feel, I want to be part of this. And even if I am nervous, you know, the term psychological safety, I don’t like it because you can hide so much under it. But there is a principle there where people really feel like if I am uncertain or I’m concerned about something, that’s valid because that is how I will learn. And the point here is that we are all learning so we can all benefit and we can all get better and we can lift each other up. You can’t do that if you’re hiding behind things. All right. Nope. We got it. Sorry, Val. 00:47:02 | Val Kroll: It’s episode 184, 00:47:05 | Tim Wilson: psychological safety and analytics with JD Long, just to, you know, plug that, which was a fun episode. 00:47:11 | Michael Helbling: I didn’t think we would have a shortage of things to talk about and really the shortage is the amount of time we have to explore this issue. You had a 10. Yeah, so we do have to start to wrap up. You should feel bad. We didn’t even get to talk about the measurements side. Shame. Shame, shame. I should feel bad. I know. So, well, obviously that indicates that there’s much more to talk about on this topic. But yeah. 00:47:36 | Tim Wilson: And really Val’s question never really got answered. Oh, well. 00:47:40 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: We need one minute to try to answer it. 60 seconds. Number one, if you don’t have a lot of change going on or it’s not a big group or change management is not a big concern, don’t worry about the measurement. You’ll overkill it. You’ll hammer it to death and it’s not a nail. Don’t do that. But if it is the type of thing where either you expect resistance or as big and you do need a lot of measurement, then yes, there should be change and there should be measurement of that change. How do you do that? Either you can do that integrated within the process so that if you integrate the change in the process then as you measure the project itself you’re also measuring the change or you measure the change as a parallel work stream in which there should be phases. So, in example, Kotter has a famous model. McKinsey has their 7S model. The ProSci has an ADCAR model. There are lots of models where they walk you through phases of changes. Each of those can be broken down and as you go through the change, you can actually measure how well are we approaching each of those so that we are ready for the change, we’re implementing it correctly and we’ve embedded it correctly. Those can be measured because you can break them down and then they become a separate work stream that will be measured and when you see that that going successful, the project is done. 00:48:43 | Val Kroll: Nice, yeah. 00:48:45 | Michael Helbling: That was actually pretty good. You were very close to 60 seconds on that. 00:48:49 | Val Kroll: Yeah, that was very close. 00:48:53 | Michael Helbling: Yehonatan, what a pleasure. This is so good. Interestingly, I feel like we just started on what I call the top layer of the conversation and I feel like there’s so much more exploration people can do from here. So, thank you so much for opening the book a little bit and I think there’s a lot of applicability right now for people in this conversation. So, really appreciate you coming on and doing that. One thing we do is a last call. Something go around the horn, share what might be interesting. Yonatan, you’re our guest. Do you have a last call you’d like to share? 00:49:27 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: I will tell you that one of the things I’ve been thinking about for a long time is how technology, specifically AI now, but technology in general adds a benefit, but then very often there is a cost that comes with it that you don’t think about until later. And whether that’s a note taker, that’s really great because you have a great record, but then you didn’t do the physical work of writing something down so you just don’t remember things as well. 00:49:49 | Michael Helbling: Did Tim prep you ahead of time for this? No, actually. 00:49:52 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: This is like a hobby horse of his right now. 00:49:54 | Tim Wilson: Okay, that might have been a moan, moantim. 00:49:59 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: But specifically I think about it in the context of education. Education is an area where we are using a lot of technology and there’s the technology that we think is detrimental to children’s growth or students’ growth. Should they have phones in the classroom? Should they get their own Chromebooks? Things like that. But then there are also questions about what about the technology we are using to actually drive that education? And there are some companies that are coming out that want to just have education be only through technology. And I think it’s a big open debate. There’s a guy named Jared Horvath who recently gave a congressional testimony, I think it was, and he’s just recently come out with a book called The Digital Delusion. He was a teacher for quite some time and he’s talking about how education done through technology comes with a lot of benefits, but you have to be aware of what you’re giving up. And then how do you thoughtfully get ahead of those so that you don’t lose as you’re gaining? 00:50:55 | Tim Wilson: It’s so funny. He is actually in our queue as a potential… I recognize that name because he bounced around somewhere. All right. I think he’s a little controversial though, so if I’m correct, right? 00:51:10 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Yeah. I mean, none of this is straightforward. It’s more, like I said, it’s something I’m thinking about for a lot because the question is not clear. What are you giving up before you pick up your pitchfork? You got to be relatively clear about that. But people like picking up pitchforks. All right, Val, what about you? What’s your last call? 00:51:26 | Val Kroll: Mine is actually semi-related to the topic, so I’ll be taking those brownie points for that. It is a medium article from none other than Eric Sandosham, one of our favorites. And this one in particular is about how AI is redefining the role of analytics leadership. And he does link, as he does in a lot of his posts, to past articles that plant the seeds of some of that thought, and they’re all worth reading as well. But one of the things that I think is really interesting is he’s talking about this paradigm shift and how we’re thinking about the new chief analytics officer and what makes a good one is to redefine one of the core competencies. Instead of focusing on solving problems, it’s going to be more about the ability to problem find, problem find and problem define versus the actual solution of it. And he goes into the T-shaped skills and operating as decision scientists. And so anyways, it was a really thoughtful read, and I just found myself highlighting a bunch of excerpts in it and shooting it off to random people. So I was like, I need to share it here as well, but it was definitely a good one. 00:52:32 | Michael Helbling: Nice. Very cool. I’ll check that out. 00:52:34 | Tim Wilson: Tim, what about you? So I alluded to it earlier that our former coworker of all of us, Noah Levin, has started a sub-stack that he has posted some stuff on that is, Jonathan, as you said, he is super thoughtful. So the one that really triggered me also sort of relates to this topic. He had a piece called Let My People Code, the part of the AI debate nobody wants to say out loud, which maybe sounds a little clickbaity because he does have a marketing background. But the essence of it is he’s kind of making the case that one of the real tensions around AI, it’s not just about declining quality, it’s about experts grappling with the loss of exclusivity 00:53:21 | Val Kroll: as a way many more people can be competent. 00:53:25 | Tim Wilson: So even Jonathan, as you were talking about, the person who was the Power BI guru, and now they’re moving into Tableau and they’re losing that, and he has, it talks about Wikipedia, it talks about the printing press, and a little bit of it is a little bit of like, you know, check yourself. For me, looking at it, I’m like, I don’t want, I don’t want code, code, code, writing R because I work so hard. If everybody can write R, what am I doing? So it does force a little bit of what’s really going on when you’re resisting, when you’re much more democratizing an ability to a base level of competence. Which just to add on to that, Michael, it was two plus years ago when we were at Measure Camp New York, when you made the comment about generative AI making, getting everybody to average on stuff. Like that, that really stuck with me then. Noah’s piece is saying, people get, experts get upset that people can do average, but average is often, you know, good enough. It doesn’t mean you don’t need the expert. So, and it’s, he has all sorts of historical references and stuff. And he’s a fantastic writer. So it’s a great read. Michael. 00:54:40 | Michael Helbling: So, yeah, I, so there’s a person who frequently in my career has somehow said something much more succinctly than I’ve been able to enunciate it. And this happened again a couple of weeks ago at. Okay, it wasn’t me. Mark, you know, no, it’s not you, Tim. 00:54:59 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Sorry. 00:55:02 | Michael Helbling: I don’t think anybody was taking that one. Not guilty either. Yeah, I see the keyword was succinctly. Yeah, no, so I was having this conversation at marketing a little something about some of my concerns about how anthropic is kind of doing some of the things they are behind the training and the adjustment of the model and how they’re kind of giving it sort of like this sense of self kind of concept and everything. And then Mark, David McBride, pointed me to an article by Gary Angel who is that person. And it’s the articles called Can You Teach an AI Ethics? And he basically dove into specifically, there’s a Wall Street Journal article about Amanda Askell who’s their philosopher kind of training the AI on ethics and morality and he kind of got into a very interesting examination of that and I really benefited from reading it and sort of helped me kind of like bring my thinking more to a point on some of the things that were just sort of like hanging out at the edges of like, I don’t know if I really agree with that and I’m not sure why. Like Gary’s thinking has always been really helpful to me in that regard. So I highly recommend it. 00:56:19 | Tim Wilson: Gary started publishing more frequently on Medium which is always a highly recommended read. 00:56:25 | Michael Helbling: He’s fun to read since forever and so yeah. So that’s, I would highly recommend that. All right, well we’ve been chatting and I think it’s for sure. You’re going to have questions, you’re going to have thoughts, you’re going to have comments. We would love to hear from you. The best way to do that is to reach out to us. We could do that via our LinkedIn page. You could do that to the Measure Slack chat group or by email at contact at analyticshour.io and if we’re re-listen, leave a rating and review on the show as well. And if you would like stickers for your laptop because even in this day and age of AI, we still need stickers on our laptop to show what tribes we belong to, you can reach out to us on analyticshour.io. There’s a page and request form for that. All right, Yehonatan, thank you. 00:57:18 | Yehonatan Schwarzmer: Thank you so much. Thank you. It is always nice to talk to each of you and all of you together as a real treat. 00:57:24 | Val Kroll: I know, I know. 00:57:26 | Michael Helbling: This is good. This is really good. 00:57:29 | Val Kroll: All right, and I think we’re all facing change 00:57:33 | Michael Helbling: and no matter what kind you’re facing and whatever stage you’re in and change that change curve, one thing you should always do and I think I speak for both of my co-hosts when I say keep analyzing. 00:57:45 | Announcer: Thanks for listening. Let’s keep the conversation going with your comments, suggestions and questions on Twitter at @analyticshour on the web at analyticshour.io, our LinkedIn group, and the Measure Chat Slack group. Music for the podcast by Josh Grohurst. Those smart guys wanted to fit in. So they made up a term called analytics. Analytics don’t work. 00:58:09 | Charles Barkley: Do the analytics say go for it no matter who’s going for it? So if you and I were on the field, the analytics say go for it. It’s the stupidest, laziest, lamest thing I’ve ever heard for reasoning in competition. 00:58:23 | Michael Helbling: I feel like I might have hit a nerve there. 00:58:28 | Tim Wilson: I was trying to be, would that come through? Would that work if I did? You’re fine. It’s totally fine. Yeah. 00:58:34 | Val Kroll: No, it’s good. 00:58:35 | Tim Wilson: Okay. I had a few other. I was going to do Kubla Ross five stages of grief or detours for the other three. 00:58:41 | Val Kroll: Yeah, I thought you were, I always try to guess you know what he’s going to say. I thought you were going to say stuck in what, what, what anger? He said, Michael, with the GA4, I think I’m such an anger. Oh yeah, I’m still stuck in anger. Yeah, I’m still stuck in. 00:58:53 | Charles Barkley: I have an immersion in anger. Still stuck in anger. 00:58:55 | Val Kroll: Yeah. Yeah. Still stuck in anger. 00:58:59 | Michael Helbling: Yeah. We’ve done a number of the things in that document. So. 00:59:08 | Tim Wilson: Well, episode number 299, take three in which Michael has followed the recommendations. 00:59:17 | Michael Helbling: Why don’t we, not all, but I’ve got all the recommendations. Oh, like I rebooted my Wi-Fi point, which has been functioning flawlessly for weeks, right up until today. And then I rebooted Chrome too. So hopefully that’s enough to get us through. Oh, we’re not going to do a full system restart. No, we don’t want to. 00:59:41 | Tim Wilson: No, we’ll say that’s our episode 300. 00:59:43 | Val Kroll: We have to have something to celebrate. 00:59:45 | Michael Helbling: Yeah, yeah. And I don’t think that’s the issue here. I’ve been putting my computer through a lot of change lately. I like it. Have any of your GPUs? 01:00:04 | Val Kroll: Yeah, just I’m doing a lot of stuff. 01:00:07 | Michael Helbling: Okay, let’s get this show on the road. Okay, here we go. Here we go in five, four, three. 01:00:28 | Tim Wilson: Rock flag and succinct refers to the expression of ideas, information, or arguments in a manner that is remarkably brief, clear, and to the point. As a succinct statement or piece of writing, I’ve always unnecessary words, fluff, and excessive detail, capturing the core essence of a message with maximum compression. The post #299: AI Can (Help) Build the Dashboard. It Can’t Build the Buy-In. appeared first on The Analytics Power Hour: Data and Analytics Podcast.
