Station 4 Negotiation

Hosted by Gene Killian

Business Education

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Aug 2026

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Station 4 Negotiation: where real stories unlock powerful negotiation strategies. Hosted by Gene Killian, a trial lawyer with 40 years of experience, we skip the gimmicks and distill practical lessons from real-world deals. Understand the art of negotiation through stories, not lists of rules. Here, you'll find practical insights that will help you communicate, collaborate, and close deals with confidence... and change the way you approach every conversation. Remember: negotiation is life.

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August 11, 202637 min

#65 – Make Them Do Their Homework: Elon Musk, Twitter, and the Case for Two-Sided Due Diligence

The most expensive move Elon Musk made buying Twitter wasn't the price. It was three words: "waive due diligence." This week on S4N, Gene works through the Musk–Twitter saga — which resulted in a multibillion-dollar jury verdict and an SEC settlement — through a negotiation lens and compares it to a similarly catastrophic deal from the 1980s, so that you know what due diligence actually means. But this episode isn't only about your own homework. There's something most dealmakers get wrong – and it's why you not only want, but need, the other side to do theirs, too. Gene explains why the counterpart who waives the inspection is so often the one who bolts — and why the sophisticated move is to slow them down. And then the hardest case of all: the gung-ho client who's already decided, who set the clock himself, and who did not hire you to hear "no." You can't argue a person like that out of a bad deal. So what actually moves them? You've sat in all three seats. This one hands you the moves for each. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: Done Deal: Insights from Interviews with the World's Best Negotiators by Michael Benoliel with Linda Cashdan The Twenty Guiding Principles of Karate: The Spiritual Legacy of the Master by Gichin Funakoshi

July 28, 202642 min

#64 – The Memorandum of Misunderstanding: What Negotiators Can Learn From Trump's Failed Iran Deal

On the evening of June 17th, 2026, between courses of a state dinner at Versailles, President Trump signed a memorandum of understanding meant to end the war with Iran. But shortly after, the shooting started again, leading commentator Mike Baker to aptly dub the document a "Memorandum of Misunderstanding." It's easy to read this situation as a verdict on one man's dealmaking... but there's something else in there for the rest of us. This week on S4N, Gene works through the collapse as a negotiator, not a pundit, because the mistakes that sank the memorandum aren't really about Trump, or Iran, or a dinner in France. They're the same ones any of us makes — misreading strength, chasing the wrong leverage, and signing our name to something we only hope will hold. Which leaves the question that actually matters to you: if the most powerful country on earth can sign a deal and watch it fall apart almost immediately, how can YOU keep your next deal from going the same way? You've felt versions of this. The person who threatens to walk away but wants the deal just as badly as you do. The agreement you rush to sign just to keep things moving — until the piece you left for "later" is the piece that comes back to bite you. The person who was never in the room but can kill the whole thing with one email. They're all the same mistakes, just with smaller stakes. This episode helps you see the next one coming. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: The Art of War by Sun Tzu Mike Baker's President's Daily Brief podcast

July 14, 202638 min

#63 – Find Your Red Helicopter: The Negotiation Audit a Spreadsheet Can't Do

A man walks into a company that has already gone bankrupt twice. On paper, it has about six weeks left. The spreadsheet says what every lender wants to hear: liquidate and turn out the lights. But one man didn't buy it. James Rhee, the businessman who rescued clothier Ashley Stewart, had a feeling the retailer's numbers were leaving something out. So he did something strange for a finance guy — he got up from the desk, walked the floor, and went looking for what the balance sheet couldn't tell him. A spreadsheet is good at counting. But is it any good at value? It can tell you what something costs, but that isn't quite the same as what it's worth to you, to the other side, or to the deal. This episode uses the rescue of clothing retailer Ashley Stewart to show why the best audit rarely fits on a spreadsheet. A fuller audit doesn't just change what you see on the page. It changes the way you sit down at the table. Because the person with the most data and the person who's best informed are not always the same person. And one of them tends to win. Here's how to bring your spreadsheet without letting it do your thinking for you. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: Red Helicopter – A Parable For Our Times: Lead Change with Kindness (Plus a Little Math) by James Rhee "The Value of Kindness at Work, " a TED Talk by James Rhee Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion by George J. Thompson and Jerry B. Jenkins "#60 – EAT Your Words: The Communication Framework the NYPD Just Used to Save a Life," the June 2, 2026 episode of Station 4 Negotiation

June 30, 202644 min

#62 – Wait for Your Pitch: What MLB's Current Labor Dispute Teaches About the Timing of Pressure

Most of us think leverage is about how much pressure we can bring. It isn't. It's about when you bring it. The same threat that wins in one moment is harmless in another. This week on S4N, Gene uses the looming Major League Baseball labor fight — players, owners, and a salary cap battle that could cancel the 2027 season — to examine the most overlooked variable in any negotiation: timing. Strip away the millions of dollars and this is an ordinary buyer-seller dispute. What makes it instructive is the clock. You've felt this without naming it. The deadline that lands in your busy season instead of your quiet one. The ultimatum timed to catch you short. Pressure applied too early is a tantrum; applied at the wrong moment, it costs you instead of them. But aimed at the other side's most expensive moment, the very same threat changes everything — without moving a single dollar. Your next contract renewal, board vote, or supplier ultimatum will come with a clock attached. This episode shows you how to read it — and how to time your own pressure so the cost lands on the other side of the table, not yours. Remember: negotiation is life. (And there's no crying in baseball.) Mentioned in this episode: "MLB salary cap would mean pay cut for players and eradication of amateur signing bonuses, union says", by Evan Drellich for The Athletic, June 1, 2026 (Editor's note: in the episode Gene refers to this article as appearing on January 1, 2026; the reporting actually ran in June 2026). Kelley Franco ( @threeinningfan) , Connecticut attorney and sports media commentator tracking the negotiations

June 16, 202640 min

#61 – How to Frame Your Picture: What to Do When You Can't Meet the Other Side in the Middle

Who does the frame of a negotiation actually belong to — and how do you make it belong to you? We still believe in building a bridge — lowering the temperature, showing respect, finding the deal in the middle. That's the right move most of the time, and we're not walking it back. But sometimes you simply can't operate inside the other side's frame. So what do you do then? This week on S4N, Gene works through that question using a fascinating negotiation at the end of World War II. One side came to the table convinced they had a deal to make, and a real prize to offer. The other side refused to negotiate on those terms at all. You've felt this tension before. The buyer who insists on talking price when the real issue is scope. The vendor who treats their standard terms as the only terms. The counterpart who keeps pulling you back onto their turf. Sometimes you can meet them where they are. But when you can't, this episode gives you the moves to make. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: Victory '45: The End of the War in Eight Surrenders by James Holland and Al Murray

June 2, 202632 min

#60 – EAT Your Words: The Communication Framework the NYPD Just Used to Save a Life

A few weeks ago in Brooklyn, a woman climbed over a Plexiglas barrier and out onto the ledge of a 54-story building. The whole thing was caught on video. In a matter of minutes, two NYPD officers did something most of us wouldn't have the first idea how to do — they talked her back to safety. Watch it closely and you realize almost nothing those officers said was an accident. They chose the order of their words carefully, they asked questions instead of giving orders, and one small physical gesture changed the entire exchange. None of that was luck. It was training, and it's a lot more useful on an ordinary day than you'd guess. This week on S4N, Gene uses that rescue — along with a story about a veteran cop quieting an angry crowd at 3 a.m. — to uncover a communication discipline called "verbal judo" and the "EAT" framework that sits underneath it. None of this is meant to make light of a life-and-death moment by setting it next to a garden-variety business negotiation. Instead, it's meant to teach you a method for defusing intense situations, no matter what they look like. If these moves hold up in a moment like that, they'll hold up in yours. The client who's furious about a missed deadline. The partner digging in on a deal that's falling apart. The employee who walks into your office already on the defensive. Same method, every time. The setting was extreme. The lesson isn't. Remember: negotiation is life. This episode discusses suicide. Please, if you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. You do not have to face this alone. There are people who will help if you give them the chance. Mentioned in this episode: NYPD ledge rescue bodycam footage, Brooklyn (May 2026) — contains a real suicide-attempt rescue; viewer discretion advised Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion by George J. Thompson and Jerry B. Jenkins

May 19, 202641 min

#59 – The Bananas Are Dead: Why The Collapse of Spirit Airlines Should Haunt Every Dealmaker

How do you set a deal up for success when the most dangerous forces in your deal are the ones you can't negotiate with at all? You've probably heard the news: two weeks ago, Spirit Airlines — the ultra-low-cost carrier known to air traffic controllers as "the Bananas" — shut down for good. After 34 years of operations and a spotless safety record, 17,000 jobs went with it. Now everyone's asking: who killed Spirit Airlines? But dealmakers should be asking something else entirely: how do you make sure your company isn't next? This week on S4N, Gene unpacks the Spirit Airlines collapse through a negotiation lens, not a political one. It's a story of failed mergers, shifting ground, and the question no one at the table bothered to ask: who else has the power to kill this deal? An eerily similar collapse played out twenty years ago, and no one in the industry, or in government, seems to have learned from it. But you can. This episode is about more than an airline. It's about what's missing from your map of a deal: the players you didn't account for, the assumptions you didn't stress-test, and the conditions that can change without warning. If you've ever watched a deal unravel from forces outside the deal itself, this episode will help you see the next one coming. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: 10-10-10: A Life-Transforming Ide a by Suzy Welch The West Point Way of Leadership by Larry R. Donnithorne "Who Killed Spirit?" , article by David Thornton for Ordinary Times, May 3, 2026 Video of Jon Jackson's retirement flight celebration

May 5, 202633 min

#58 – Lessons from NASA: How to Negotiate Like a Scientist

This week on S4N, Gene leans into the recent public fascination with NASA – intensified by Artemis II's journey to the moon – to explore a different kind of mission: how to negotiate like a scientist. Drawing on ideas from organizational psychologist Adam Grant and his book Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know , Gene breaks down why most of us default to defending our views instead of testing them – and how that instinct limits our effectiveness at the table. Learn how to treat your opinions like hypotheses, how to pressure-test the other side's assumptions without triggering resistance, and how to replace certainty with curiosity without losing credibility or control. Along the way, Gene connects NASA's post-Challenger disaster shift toward a learning culture – where questioning isn't weakness, it's responsibility – to the kind of environment great negotiators create: one where people feel safe enough to speak honestly, challenge ideas, and uncover what actually matters. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know by Adam Grant The Fighting 69th , the 1940 film directed by William Keighley

April 21, 202638 min

#57 – Playing the Long Game: What the WNBA Got Right About Deals That Work When You Win

Negotiation forces a tough question: are we fighting over slices – or building something bigger together? Most deals don't fail because of bad intentions. They fail because the structure only works for one side. This week on S4N, Gene uses the WNBA's new collective bargaining agreement to zero in on a core business challenge: how do you build a revenue-sharing deal that actually aligns incentives instead of creating friction? One side wants a bigger share of the upside. The other needs to manage risk and keep the business viable. If you've ever negotiated comp, a partnership, a client deal, or even an internal budget, you've felt this tension. This episode gets into what actually moves things forward – and how to stop dividing value, and instead think about how to structure it. When the structure is right, success scales for both sides. When it isn't, your deal doesn't hold up, and you find yourself right back at the negotiating table (or in court). Because the goal isn't just to close the deal – it's to build one that works when things start going right. Remember: negotiation is life.

April 7, 202632 min

#56 – By the Numbers: Why "Strong" Data Makes a Weak Case

You've heard it before: support your position with data. But what if the data doesn't hold up? This week on S4N, Gene unpacks the chilling case of Sally Clark – a British solicitor wrongfully convicted by numbers that looked airtight and were completely wrong – to expose how numbers can distort, not clarify, high-stakes decisions. We break down the prosecutor's fallacy, the critical difference between precision and accuracy, and why data that appears authoritative can be fundamentally wrong. More importantly, we translate this into practical negotiation insight, so you can interrogate data, challenge assumptions, and avoid blindly trusting expert analysis. When you trust data too much, and when your belief in your case outpaces what the data can actually support, decisions fall apart. This episode exposes a simple truth: the quality of your decisions is only as good as the quality of the information behind them. Whether you're negotiating a deal or evaluating risk, this episode will sharpen your skepticism – and your judgment. Remember: negotiation is life. Mentioned in this episode: The Maths of Life and Death by Kit Yates