Startups For the Rest of Us

Hosted by Rob Walling

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Episodes

329

Latest episode

Jun 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

The original podcast for bootstrapped and mostly bootstrapped startups, this show follow the stories of founders as they start, acquire, and grow SaaS companies. Hear when they fail, struggle, succeed, and take you with them through the tumultuous life of a SaaS founder. If you like Mixergy, This Week in Startups, or SaaStr, you’ll enjoy Startup for the Rest of Us.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

June 16, 202643 min

Episode 837 | How Do You Learn Product? and Optimizing Your Trial Funnel (with Ruben Gamez)

How does a founder actually learn the skill of product? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation than expected. They cover why friction works well for one of Ruben's products and kills conversions on the other, how to think about trial length and onboarding when users need more time, and what it actually takes to develop product instincts as a bootstrapped founder. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (4:00) – Friction in trial funnels: Bidsketch vs. SignWell (8:26) – When to test friction vs. trust your gut (10:44) – Testing with low volume (16:56) – Trial length for project management SaaS (18:47) – How do you learn product? (21:39) – How Ruben developed product sense on the job (23:21) – The two core product skills bootstrappers actually need (29:42) – Product management vs. UX (31:46) – Why product sense doesn't transfer between products (34:07) – How fast you can build product sense Links from the show: SaaS Institute Cancun Retreat – Dec 5-7, 2026, exclusively for 7 & 8 figure SaaS founders | Waitlist: tracy@tinyseed.com Sponsorship inquiries: sponsors@tinyseed.com TinySeed SaaS Institute Shreyas Doshi Product Sense Course Shreyas Doshi on YouTube Ep 15 - Strategy Session | The Offsite Podcast The Panel Podcast SignWell Bidsketch Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

June 9, 202634 min

Episode 836 | The 5 A.I. Moats Acquirers Value Most

Is your SaaS actually protected from AI disruption, or are acquirers walking away without even looking? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Einar Vollset of Discretion Capital for a front-lines SaaS M&A market report, covering how the acquisition climate has shifted since 2021, why some PE firms now require at least one AI moat before they'll even look at a deal, and a breakdown of all five moats: hardware-software coupling, two-sided network effects, communication graph embeds, proprietary data with closed feedback loops, and operational switching costs. Topics we cover: (2:05) – State of SaaS M&A from 2020 to today (5:49) – Why 2021 was the best time to sell (7:38) – How the 2022 downturn raised the acquisition bar (8:59) – The SaaS apocalypse narrative and AI FUD (12:26) – Why bootstrappers should care about exit markets (15:52) – AI moat #1: Hardware-software coupling (17:38) – AI moat #2: Marketplace scale and two-sided network effects (20:05) – AI moat #3: Communication graph and relationship embed (21:27) – AI moat #4: Proprietary data with closed feedback loops (23:20) – AI moat #5: Operational embed and switching costs (27:28) – Some PE firms now require at least one moat (29:23) – AI-native SaaS faces even higher hurdles Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Next Live Session: Jim Zarkadas on User-Friendly Onboarding (June 17) TinySeed MicroConf YouTube The SaaS Playbook Discretion Capital M&A Guide Fiscal.ai DealForma BuiltWith ZyraTalk EverCommerce Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

June 2, 202632 min

Episode 835 | The Right Way to Use AI in Your Startup Marketing

Are you using AI in your marketing because it's actually good, or just because it's fast? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Taylor Hendricksen, a performance marketer who has managed tens of millions of dollars in ad spend across Meta and Google, to talk about where AI is genuinely useful and where it produces flat, mediocre output that makes you look like everyone else. They also dig into unconventional distribution channels, offer design, and why some of the best SaaS niches are the least exciting ones. Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (5:04) – AI as boogeyman: proving value to customers (6:59) – Human-first content vs. AI-generated content (9:38) – Why AI produces average work by default (13:05) – AI is the average of the internet (16:18) – Overcoming artificial growth ceilings (20:26) – Finding your avatar and positioning around real problems (22:52) – Unconventional distribution: direct mail and video mailers (25:52) – Crafting offers people feel stupid saying no to (28:42) – Using AI for ops, research, and thought partnership Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute Rob Walling Email List The SaaS Playbook MicroConf | Community for Bootstrapped SaaS Founders Alex Hormozi YouTube Channel Incorruptible by Eric Ries Taylor Hendricksen | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

May 26, 202639 min

Episode 834 | Eric Ries Revisits The Lean Startup and Discusses How to Become Incorruptible

Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in Lean Startup thinking 15 years on, why AI speeds up building but can't replace human learning, and what drove Eric to write his new book, Incorruptible. Eric also shares the story of how the Long-Term Stock Exchange nearly died before it ever launched, and why Costco is the rare example of a company that figured out how to stay incorruptible. Topics we cover: (3:48) – Lean Startup: 15 years later (8:33) – How countercultural MVPs and pivots were (11:02) – How AI changes build-measure-learn (13:36) – Learning is still a human job (15:43) – AI makes everyone's work more average (17:39) – The Long-Term Stock Exchange story (21:03) – How LTSE was nearly destroyed (25:00) – A better definition of profit (31:45) – Companies already living this way (32:33) – The legend of Sol Price and Costco (37:36) – Incorruptible: ethos plus integrity Links from the show: TinySeed SaaS Institute The SaaS Playbook Incorruptible by Eric Ries The Lean Startup by Eric Ries Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE) Eric Ries | LinkedIn Eric Ries (@ericries) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

May 19, 202629 min

Episode 833 | Success Patterns of Nobel Laureates, Developing Expertise, and From Zero to $10k (A Rob Solo Adventure)

What do Nobel Prize winners and successful bootstrappers have in common? In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares the story of how a TinySeed company went from near-zero revenue to $10,000-$20,000 a month almost overnight, breaks down Claude Shannon's research on the habits that separated Nobel laureates from forgotten scientists, and explores why deep expertise looks like magic from the outside. Episode Sponsor: You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked. That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more. Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal. Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free. Topics we cover: (2:46) – BlinkMetrics: from no product-market fit to $10-20K/month (8:31) – 104 coffee chats, 24 sales calls (10:25) – AI changes custom dashboard economics (12:53) – What separates Nobel winners from the forgotten (14:40) – Knowledge compounds like interest (18:28) – Taking bigger swings vs. staying in your comfort zone (19:36) – Going deep on one idea for years (21:21) – Expertise that looks like magic Links from the show: MicroConf Europe ┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect BlinkMetrics Claude Shannon Bell Labs lecture Why most indie hackers aren't succeeding┃Baretto (tiiny.com) Stephen Curry got that sixth sense when it comes to the rim The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling TinySeed SaaS Accelerator Rob Walling on YouTube Rob Walling (@robwalling)┃X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify

May 12, 202634 min

Episode 832 | Going Full-time, When to Pivot, Building With Young Kids, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

How do you leave a $400K salary to go all in on your business? In this solo episode, Rob Walling cranks through a backlog of listener questions on reducing risk with your startup to go full-time, when to register as a business, how to price a SaaS with seat ambiguity, when to pivot, and how to keep building when you have four kids under eight. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Your AI-generated code got you to V1. Now it's holding you back. Vibe coding is incredible for speed. But the codebase it leaves behind? Hidden security gaps, duct-tape architecture, features that break every time you ship. At a certain point you need professional engineering discipline, not more prompting. That’s where Designli's Engineering Intensive comes in. In two weeks, senior engineers audit your code, stress-test your infrastructure, surface vulnerabilities, and deliver a prioritized roadmap to get scale-ready. Total clarity on your product's health, with a money-back guarantee. Schedule your Engineering Intensive at designli.co/fortherestofus. Podcast listeners can also redeem a free Designli Impact Week. Topics we cover: (2:15) – Leaving a $400K salary to go full-time (7:43) – When to officially register your business (10:51) – Seat-based pricing with shared branding (12:40) – When to get a design audit (15:05) – How to calculate TAM for a Shopify app (18:29) – Can a step one app break free of its marketplace? (20:22) – How to know when it's time to pivot (22:31) – Building a startup with four young kids (25:30) – How to find ICP conversations without a network Links from the show: MicroConf Connect Join by May 20th to attend a Live AMA with Rob Walling The SaaS Playbook Start Small, Stay Small Reddit Thread: $30K to $440K in 7 Years (AMA) Stripe Atlas I Grew This SaaS by 13% Every Month for 13 Months Episode 589 | Finding a SaaS Idea Through 70 Cold Calls Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

May 5, 202643 min

Episode 831 | Written vs. Verbal Ad Copy, Selling Into a Low-Awareness Market, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

Should your first customer pay you, or get your product for free? In this episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions on charging customer zero, what metrics to track for a seasonal transaction fee-based SaaS, what it really means to sell into a low-awareness market, and when freelancers help vs. hurt your bootstrapped business. He also calls in Producer Ron to break down exactly how he thinks about writing copy for a podcast ads. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Topics we cover: (2:42) – Six years to overnight success (4:55) – Should customer zero pay or get it free? (8:42) – Writing ad copy for podcast ads (15:14) – Metrics for a transaction fee-based SaaS (18:40) – Moving from GMV-only to subscription plus fees (20:38) – Selling into a low-awareness market (23:53) – When bootstrappers struggle without problem awareness (27:09) – Podcast music history editor Josh (31:44) – How to find and work with freelancers Links from the show: SaaS Launchpad TinySeed SaaS Accelerator MicroConf The SaaS Playbook Zell Wave by Josh Young - SoundCloud Dynamite Jobs New Rob’s VideoAsk Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

April 28, 202635 min

Episode 830 | Breaking Through Plateaus, Zero-Click Marketing, and More from MicroConf 2026 (with Derrick Reimer)

What were the highlights and takeaways from MicroConf? In this episode, Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer recap MicroConf US 2026 in Portland, Oregon. They break down the best talks from the event, including Jason Cohen on breaking through growth plateaus, Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing and broken attribution, Rob's framework for six ways to implement AI in SaaS, and Craig Hewitt's all-in take on AI adoption. Plus, they cover excursions, the hallway track, and why the MicroConf community keeps pulling founders up. Episode Sponsor: You're about to close a massive deal, and then your customer's legal team asks what happens if you get hacked. That's the nightmare YSecurity solves. They're 40 security engineers who've worked at Apple, Uber, Microsoft, Robinhood, Brex, and more. You don't hire them, you rent them by the hour, no massive salary, no expensive consultants. Just real experts helping you get SOC 2, ISO, and more. Set a monthly cap, know exactly what you're spending, and close the deal. Head to ysecurity.io/startups to book your free strategy call. Your first 8 hours are completely free. Topics we cover: (2:14) – MicroConf 2026 attendee caliber and mix (5:07) – Rebuilding MicroConf post-COVID (8:51) – Jason Cohen on breaking growth ceilings (12:48) – Amanda Natividad on Zero-Click Marketing (19:30) – Excursions, arcades, and the hallway track (22:01) – Rob's six ways to implement AI in SaaS (27:27) – Gia Laudi on Jobs To Be Done as your GTM moat (29:00) – Craig Hewitt's "AI Doomer" talk (33:41) – MicroConf Europe in Iceland Links from the show: MicroConf Europe┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21–23, 2026 MicroConf Connect TinySeed SaaS Institute Jason Cohen's "Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business with Jason Cohen" Amanda Natividad | LinkedIn SparkToro Gia (Georgiana) Laudi | LinkedIn Formspree Rob Walling on YouTube Craig Hewitt | LinkedIn SavvyCal (Derrick Reimer) Derrick Reimer | LinkedIn If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

April 21, 202630 min

Episode 829 | AI is Bad at Product, Top 5 Startup Success Factors, and the Beastie Boys (A Rob Solo Adventure)

Can AI really handle product decisions for your SaaS? In this solo adventure, Rob Walling revisits the core four SaaS skills and breaks down what AI can and cannot do across Development, Sales, Marketing, and Product. He also reframes Bill Gross's top five startup success factors for bootstrappers, walks through a hilariously bad UX decision by a local parking app, and closes with a surprisingly insightful Beastie Boys anecdote about shipping creative work into the world. Episode Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across all of my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking is broken, slow wires, clunky interfaces, tools that feel like they were built in 2005. Mercury is what banking should feel like in 2026. Everything just works. Whether it's daily bill pay or wiring large sums to the dozens of companies we invest in each year, Mercury handles it. Simple when I need simple, robust when I need approvals and controls. Over 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. When founders ask me where to set up their account, I send them to mercury.com. Free to get started, no in-person visits, no minimum balance. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Topics we cover: (5:48) – AI and the Core Four SaaS skills (7:03) – Why AI falls short with sales and marketing (8:45) – The editorial eye AI still lacks (10:14) – Why AI is worst at product (13:41) – Bill Gross's top five startup success factors (19:48) – A parking app's terrible UX decisions (24:24) – The Beastie Boys and lessons on shipping Links from the show: TinySeed | SaaS Institute Ep. 817 | Bootstrapping in the Age of AI with Jason Cohen Rob Walling YouTube Rob Walling Newsletter Bill Gross’s Ted Talk on Startup Success Factors The Beastie Boys on Conan O’Brian’s Podcast If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

April 14, 202641 min

Episode 828 | Am I Building a SaaS?, Serving Both B2C and B2B, Pricing, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

Is your product actually a SaaS? In this episode, Rob Walling tackles listener questions about what really qualifies as SaaS (and where he disagrees with ChatGPT), how to serve both solopreneurs and enterprise customers with a dual funnel strategy, layering a B2B offering on top of a B2C product, pricing a mission-driven app without gatekeeping access, and the impact of healthcare costs on startup runway. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Your payroll tool doesn't talk to your bank. Your bank doesn't talk to your bookkeeper. And you're the one stuck in the middle playing admin instead of building your company. Every is the back office platform built for startups. Incorporation, banking, international and domestic payroll, bookkeeping, and tax prep, one login, one platform. You get a dedicated Slack channel with actual humans, up to $3 million in FDIC insurance, corporate cards, and automated accounting. Setup takes under 30 minutes. Most founders are fully transitioned within a week. Check them out at every.io. And if you're at MicroConf in Portland, make sure to swing by and chat with the team. Topics we cover: (3:09) – What qualifies as a SaaS business? (5:15) – Why Netflix and Spotify are not SaaS (8:11) – Where Rob disagrees with ChatGPT on SaaS (12:21) – Serving solopreneurs and enterprise simultaneously (15:13) – The power of the dual funnel strategy (17:02) – Navigating the enterprise sales process (22:20) – Layering B2B features onto a B2C product (28:52) – Pricing a mission-driven job search app (35:57) – Healthcare costs and startup runway in the US Links from the show: MicroConf Masterminds – Applications close April 17th MicroConf’s Masterminds Guide Newscatcher HelpSpot TinySeed Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |Spotify Listen to Episode 828