Starts at the Top Podcast

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Starts at the Top is about how leaders from all sectors are using digital to navigate uncertainty and forge a path to the future. It’s hosted by Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas.

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June 11, 2026Episode 9744 min

Episode 97 - Pip Wilson, Co-Founder and CEO of amicable

AI, Access to Justice and the Future of Human-Centred Leadership We chat to Pip Wilson, Co-Founder and CEO of amicable As AI becomes more embedded in our workplaces and daily lives, leaders are wrestling with a difficult question: how do we embrace the benefits of technology without losing sight of the people it's supposed to serve? In this episode of Starts at the Top, we speak to Pip Wilson, co-founder and CEO of amicable, the UK-based legal services business that is transforming how people navigate separation and divorce. Pip shares how amicable combines technology, AI and human expertise to make one of life's most challenging experiences kinder, more affordable and less adversarial. Pip's journey spans successful tech entrepreneurship, angel investing and social impact. Together, we explore what happens when technology is designed around human needs rather than professional systems, and why the most successful businesses of the future may be those that combine commercial success with social purpose. In this episode, we discuss: How amicable was born from a deeply personal experience of divorce and a desire to create a better alternative. Why the traditional legal system often makes separation harder, more expensive and more stressful than it needs to be. How technology and AI can improve access to justice while keeping people at the centre of the process. The opportunities and limitations of AI in emotionally complex situations. Why transparency, affordability and user-centred design matter in professional services. The future of relationship support, from cohabitation agreements to co-parenting and life after divorce. Pip's philosophy as an entrepreneur, angel investor and B Corp leader. Why businesses that combine social purpose with commercial sustainability are best placed to thrive in the future. As world leaders, governments and organisations debate how AI should be regulated, Zoe and Paul explore a more immediate leadership challenge: what does it actually mean to stay in control of AI? They discuss: Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark's proposal for a permanent "Cobra for AI" capability within government. Pope Leo's call for AI to be developed in service of human dignity rather than domination. Whether increasing reliance on AI tools could affect our confidence in writing, thinking and decision-making. The tension between leaders wanting to realise AI's benefits quickly and employees who need time, support and psychological safety to adapt. The warning signs that organisations may be moving too quickly towards automation. These themes provide the perfect backdrop to our conversation with Pip, whose work sits at the intersection of AI, ethics, human dignity and innovation. Show notes About amicable Visit the amicable website , or book a 15-minute call with amicable Zoe and Paul discussed: Jack Clark on the need for a permanent "Cobra for AI" capability https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2124z7g45o The Pope’s Eclyical on AI https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cedppn6002jo Kate Waters on AI, writing confidence and authorship https://www.linkedin.com/posts/katewaterscomms_usually-im-lucky-if-my-linkedin-posts-get-share-7468238726322696192-ltx2/ Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

May 21, 2026Episode 9644 min

Episode 96 - Eleanor Gibson, Agile and Innovation Coach and Founder of Tilt

From Control to Collaboration: Five Mindset Shifts Leaders Need for the Age of AI We chat with Eleanor Gibson, Agile and Innovation Coach and Founder of Tilt This week we chat to Eleanor Gibson, founder of Tilt, who has helped over 40 charities rethink not just what they do, but how they work. Eleanor shares her five mindset shifts model for leaders — from outputs to outcomes, hierarchies to networks, controlling to empowering, predicting to experimenting, and isolation to transparency — and explains why these shifts are more urgent than ever as AI reshapes the way organisations operate. We caught Eleanor just before she went on maternity leave — congrats, Eleanor! — and had a brilliant conversation about why discomfort is a sign you're doing change right, how smaller charities can leapfrog larger ones by moving faster with AI, and why being intentional about how you work is the single most important thing leaders can do right now. In this episode, you'll hear about: Eleanor's five mindset shifts for adaptable, resilient leadership Why focusing on how your organisation works can unlock huge potential — especially with AI The risks AI poses to institutional knowledge and collaboration, and what to do about them How to build resilience and confidence when change feels uncomfortable Why smaller, more agile charities are seizing the AI opportunity faster than larger ones Before our chat with Eleanor, Zoe and Paul discuss the human side of AI — from the Royal Observatory's warning about outsourcing our thinking, to a Stanford student's account of graduating from the first "AI era" college class, to what happens to real human connection when AI gets so good at performing empathy. Show Notes & Links Tilt https://teamtilt.co.uk Tilt's "Where to Start with Agile Ways of Working" workbook — available via teamtilt.co.uk Charity Change Collective Find Eleanor on LinkedIn Zoe and Paul discussed: Royal Observatory Greenwich on AI and critical thinking https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2023l60370o Theo Baker, New York Times — graduating from the first AI era college class https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/17/opinion/chatgpt-ai-college-school-graduation.html Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

May 7, 2026Episode 9557 min

Episode 95 - Kat Thomas, entrepreneur and author of Weapons of Mass Confidence

Weapons of Mass Confidence: How AI Can Help Close the Confidence Gap for Women We chat with Kat Thomas, author of Weapons of Mass Confidence and founder of creative communications company Knock Three Times. We're back with a conversation that we think will resonate with so many of you, particularly anyone juggling a senior role, caring responsibilities, and the relentless mental load of work and home. We were thrilled to chat to Kat Thomas, multi-award-winning creative entrepreneur and author of Weapons of Mass Confidence: How AI Will Help Women Win More. Kat shares the deeply personal story behind the book- navigating her dad's move into care from a different country, hitting bureaucratic dead ends, and the moment ChatGPT helped her solve in ten days what had taken her ten months of phone calls and lawyers' fees. From there, the conversation opens up into something much bigger: the confidence gap, the hidden cost of under-asking, and why women must show up to AI rather than reject it -because if we don't, the biases baked into these tools will only get worse. This is a hopeful, honest, and very practical conversation about how AI can be a quiet accelerator for women at work and at home. In this episode, you'll hear about: The very personal story that led Kat to write the book — and why her first AI use case was nothing to do with work The confidence gap, and why women often hold back when men go for it AI as a private "rehearsal room" for difficult conversations, doctor's appointments, salary negotiations and life admin The "power moves vs polish" divide: how men and women are using AI differently, and the guilt factor holding women back Why rejecting AI on ethical grounds risks making bias worse, not better Kat's Just Ask philosophy — and what changes when asking becomes normal rather than risky. Zoe and Paul also discuss two stories shaping the leadership conversation right now: Rishi Sunak's observation that "flat is the new up" — the idea that organisations can grow without growing headcount thanks to AI -and what this means for younger talent looking for a career path. Plus, Claude's recent pricing experiments and what the shift from SaaS-style licences to metered, usage-based AI pricing means for small businesses, charities and anyone trying to budget responsibly in an AI-dependent world. Show Notes & Links Weapons of Mass Confidence - https://www.waterstones.com/book/weapons-of-mass-confidence/kat-thomas/9781835842027 Zoe and Paul discussed: Rishi Sunak on AI and taxation - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg07x4rejdo Changes to Claude’s pricing model and AI dependency - https://zoeamar.com/2026/04/30/ai-governance-risk-charity-leaders/ Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade - https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

April 23, 2026Episode 941 hr 4 min

Episode 94 - Dr Mark Williamson, co-founder and Director of Action for Happiness - author of Make Life Happier

How Leaders Can Make Life Happier: Mark Williamson on burnout, mindset and hope We chat to Dr Mark Williamson, co-founder and Director of Action for Happiness and author of Make Life Happier. We’re back for Season 10, and we’re opening on a positive no by chatting to Dr Mark Williamson, co-founder and Director of Action for Happiness and author of new book ‘Make Life Happier: 23 practical ways to feel better, find meaning and make adifference. ‘ We were delighted to chat to Mark about how leaders can come off autopilot, tame the inner critic, build healthier habits and lead with realistic optimism. This is a thoughtful, practical conversation about what it takes to stay grounded, connected and hopeful in uncertain times. In this episode, you’ll hear about: why leadership feels harder than ever right now how to practise self-compassion without lowering your standards the power of mindful check-ins and better listening practical habits for protecting your wellbeing how realistic optimism can help leaders navigate uncertainty Zoe and Paul also discuss the complexity crisis facing leaders today, from AI disruption and regulation to burnout and constant change, based on their news round up. Show Notes & Links Zoe and Paul discussed: Make Life Happier by Mark Williamson https://www.bonnierbooks.co.uk/news-and-media/make-life-happier-finding-meaning-with-dr-mark-williamson/ Action for Happiness https://actionforhappiness.org/ University of Manchester Business School report https://www.insidermedia.com/blogs/north-west/the-complexity-crisis-why-uk-leadership-needs-a-reset AI chatbot regulation https://www.techpolicy.press/uk-seeks-more-powers-under-online-safety-act-to-tackle-ai-harms/ Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

February 26, 2026Episode 9347 min

Episode 93 - Tjada D’Oyen McKenna, CEO of Mercy Corps

How Mercy Corps Is Leading Through Funding Cuts and AI Disruption We speak to Tjada D’Oyen McKenna, CEO of Mercy Corps In this final episode of the season, we speak to Tjada D’Oyen McKenna, CEO of Mercy Corps, about leading through one of the most volatile periods the humanitarian sector has faced in years. Mercy Corps operates in some of the most fragile places on earth. Over the past year, Tjada and her team have had to navigate sudden US government funding cuts, geopolitical uncertainty and rising global need — all while continuing to innovate, including with AI. So how do you lead when programmes are shut down overnight? How do you stay transparent when you don’t have all the answers? And how do you embrace AI without losing sight of human judgement, fairness and trust? Tjada shares how she stayed “ahead of the grief curve” as a leader, why showing your values matters more than ever, and how innovation doesn’t have to mean moonshots — sometimes it’s about disciplined, human-centred experimentation. Alongside the interview, we reflect on what recent headlines from PwC, Accenture and others reveal about the future of skills, promotions and leadership in an AI-shaped workplace. As we close this season, this episode asks: How do you lead with integrity when everything feels uncertain? Earlier in the episode, Zoe and Paul reflect on what recent headlines reveal about the pace of AI change — from PwC’s decision to protect human judgement in entry-level roles, to Accenture linking promotions to AI tool usage, and the viral essay arguing that AI disruption is accelerating faster than most leaders realise. Together, these stories frame the wider leadership tensions explored in our conversation with Tjada. Show Notes & Links Zoe and Paul discussed: PwC on preserving human subjectivity in decision-making: https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/pwc-says-ai-cannot-replace-human-subjectivity-in-decision-making/ Accenture linking promotions to AI tool usage: https://www.theguardian.com/accenture/2026/feb/19/accenture-links-staff-promotions-to-use-of-ai-tools Matt Shumer – Something Big Is Happening: https://shumer.dev/something-big-is-happening Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

February 5, 2026Episode 9244 min

Episode 92 - Maeve Walsh, Director of the Online Safety Act Network

Safety by Design: Protecting Children in the Age of AI We chat with Maeve Walsh, Director of the Online Safety Act Network Join Zoe Amar and Paul Thomas for a conversation with Maeve Walsh, Director of the Online Safety Act Network. In this episode, we explore the complex landscape of online safety regulation, the emerging risks AI poses to children, and what parents and leaders really need to know. Maeve brings a wealth of experience to this conversation, having spent 17 years in Whitehall including roles at Cabinet Office, No10 and DCMS, where she led the team responsible for delivering the UK Digital Strategy. As a Carnegie Trust associate, her work on online harm reduction helped shape the Online Safety Act. She now leads the Online Safety Act Network and is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts. In this engaging discussion, Zoe, Paul and Maeve discuss: Why regulation drives innovation rather than stifling it – and how online safety regulation creates a level playing field, just as safety standards have done in sectors from food to cars. The end of tech exceptionalism. Why the argument that social media platforms are somehow "different" and can't be regulated is being debunked globally, from the EU's Digital Services Act to Australia's under-16 ban. The alarming risks AI poses to children – from chatbots designed to be persuasive and sycophantic, to harmful content being served up without safety testing. Why AI products are essentially being "tested in the wild" on our kids. What the public actually want. 72% say regulation would increase their comfort with AI, and 78% want safety checks on generative AI products even if it means delays – so why isn't this translating into industry action? Why even tech-savvy parents struggle with parental controls – and why the responsibility for keeping children safe shouldn't fall solely on their shoulders. What safety by design actually looks like: privacy set to the highest setting by default, better verification, and children only seeing content from accounts they follow. Practical advice for parents on having those tricky tech conversations with your kids – and why communication beats restriction. Show Notes & Links Online Safety Act Network Maeve Walsh on LinkedIn Zoe and Paul discussed: BBC – AI chatbots and the risks to young people The Guardian – Moltbook: the social media site built for AI agents Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

January 15, 2026Episode 9153 min

Episode 91 - Chris Sherwood, Chief Executive of the NSPCC

Keeping Children Safe Online: AI, the Online Safety Act, and Leadership with Lived Experience We chat to Chris Sherwood, Chief Executive of the NSPCC This week we're thrilled to bring you the first of two special episodes focused on the Online Safety Act – a topic that's hitting the headlines right now as Ofcom investigates Elon Musk's X and its AI tool Grok for potentially generating indecent images. We sat down with Chris Sherwood, the brilliant Chief Executive of the NSPCC, who brings over 20 years of voluntary sector experience and a deeply personal connection to child protection – Chris contacted Childline himself as a child. Now he's leading one of the UK's most important charities at a pivotal moment for online safety. This is a powerful conversation where we discuss: Why the Online Safety Act matters now: Chris explains why Ofcom needs to "show teeth" and use its full range of powers to hold tech companies accountable The AI Wild West: From AI enabled sextortion of young boys to AI-generated child abuse material Leading with lived experience: How Chris's own childhood experience shapes his leadership and why having proper support networks matters Why safety can't rest on parents' shoulders: The case for tech companies designing safety in from the start, not as an afterthought AI opportunities at NSPCC: How the charity is using technology to deepen supporter relationships and better understand children's experiences through Childline data Paul and Zoe discuss the ICO's new report on agentic AI and the data protection considerations leaders need to keep front of mind, plus KPMG's bold move to rate staff on how effectively they use AI in performance reviews – a signal that AI literacy is becoming a core professional skill. This is essential listening for anyone who cares about child safety, responsible AI, or leading with authenticity and purpose. Show Notes & Links NSPCC Child Safety Online Taskforce Report with Baringa – Research showing online safety influences consumer choices ICO Tech Futures: Agentic AI Report KPMG AI Use Metric: A Necessary Professional Services Wake-up Call Common Sense Media – NSPCC's US partner on keeping children safe online Please leave us a review if you enjoy what you hear! Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

December 17, 2025Episode 9055 min

Episode 90 - Ali Paul, Product Lead for Chatbots and Gen-AI at Flo Health App

Creating the Conditions for Innovation We chat with Ali Paul, Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health In our final episode of 2025, we're thrilled to share our conversation with Ali Paul, Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health – the world's number one women's health app with over 420 million users globally. Ali oversees Flo's chatbot development, content platforms and AI product teams, and she joins us to share her insights on how leaders can create the best conditions for innovation in their teams. We discuss how Flo is pioneering the use of generative AI in women's health, the challenges of developing medically safe LLM-based products, and why a democratised approach to AI adoption has been key to Flo's success. Before our chat with Ali, Paul and I share some reflections on 2025 – from AI trends and what they might mean for 2026, to our Navigating AI Transformation leadership walk in Richmond Park with James and Anni (coming back in April!), and of course, our music highlights of the year. What We Cover How Flo is using AI for both productivity and user-facing product development The unique challenges of creating a medically safe LLM for women's health Why Flo has taken a democratised, entrepreneurial approach to AI adoption The evolution from startup to scale-up and creating empowered product teams How marketing skills transfer brilliantly to product management Ali's advice on authenticity and finding what truly matters in your career Our 2025 reflections and predictions for AI in 2026 About Ali Paul Ali Paul is Lead Product Manager for Chatbots and Generative AI at Flo Health, overseeing chatbot development, content platforms and AI product teams. With a background spanning Cancer Research UK, Bupa and various innovation and ventures teams, Ali brings a wealth of experience in health tech and product development. She's a speaker on product, health tech and femtech, and is passionate about using technology to empower women to advocate for their own health. Charities – Get in Touch! Ali mentioned opportunities for charities to partner with Flo, particularly around scientific and research collaborations, and CSR initiatives supporting women's health in countries with poorer health infrastructures. If you're interested, drop Zoe an email at zoe@zoeamar.com and she'll connect you with the right people at Flo. Show Notes & Links Flo Health app https://flo.health/ McKinsey article on AI skills gaps on boards https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-technology/our-insights/the-ai-reckoning-how-boards-can-evolve?stcr=BEC99EF56EC8494CA58588D24EDEB808&cid=mgp_opr-eml-alt-dna_mt-mgp-glb--&hlkid=93af2160e2db48bfa3565b306d4b54c4&hctky=10286975&hdpid=25c51be9-100a-42fd-8d20-d7ea12d337a7 Charity AI Task Force (co-chaired by Zoe with Dan Sutch of CAST) https://www.wearecast.org.uk/our-work/how-we-work-with-funders-and-partners/charity-ai-task-force/ Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

November 20, 2025Episode 8939 min

Episode 89 - Tony Zona, Chief Data Office at Grant Thornton UK

The AI Trojan Horse: A Chief Data Officer’s Secrets to Leading Culture Change We chat with Tony Zona, Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton In this episode, we chat with Tony Zona, the Chief Data Officer at Grant Thornton UK. We talk about leadership, data, and the cultural shift required to unlock the value of AI. Tony’s 25-year journey at Grant Thornton, evolving from a tax trainee to becoming the firm’s first ever Chief Data Officer in 2022, is a masterclass in adaptability and innovation. He offers a brilliant, people-focused perspective on data-led transformation, famously comparing siloed business units to different Italian dialects—and how his work has been about creating a common, understandable ‘business language’ for the firm’s 5,000+ people. What You’ll Learn: The Trojan Horse Strategy: Why Tony advises leaders to not talk about data, but instead use the excitement of AI as a Trojan Horse to secure buy in for essential foundational work like data literacy and governance. Mindset Shift: Grant Thornton’s 3D Initiative: Tony details the firm’s unique, multi million pound 3D (Data Driven Digital Mindset) programme—designed to move beyond typical training by fostering a cultural shift and measurable outcomes among leaders and associates. Data as a Feedback Loop: Discover how Grant Thornton turns data recording from an overhead into a self-perpetuating, value-driven loop by connecting high quality data directly to a leader’s top priorities, like forecasting and profitability. Lessons for All Leaders: Tony shares practical takeaways for resource constrained leaders—especially those in the third sector—on how to start small, focus on core business values (like saving lives, not just profitability), and celebrate the ‘data wins’ to spark a data literate culture. Before the interview, Zoe and Paul offer a considered appraisal of the UK AI skills report, discussing the dangers of a widening gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' and the critical challenge of consistent implementation across all sectors, from top accountancy firms to grassroots charities. A must listen for any leader struggling to translate the excitement of AI into practical, sustainable organisational change. Show notes Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.

November 6, 2025Episode 8849 min

Episode 88 - Helen Milner OBE and Katie Ghose - Empowering Digital Inclusion

Collaboration for change: The Digital Services Consortium We chat to Katie Ghose CEO at KIDS and Helen Milner OBE, Group Chief Executive of Good Things Foundation In this conversation, Zoe and Paul chat to charity leaders Helen Milner OBE and Katie Ghose to discuss the critical importance of digital inclusion, including its impact on disabled children and their families. Helen and Katie highlight the pioneering work of the Digital Services Consortium, an innovative alliance of twelve charities collaborating to design and deliver essential digital services and support. The discussion delves into the seismic shift caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and how it both accelerated the need for and exposed the severe barriers to technology access faced by marginalised communities. This episode is a must-listen for all charity and cross-sector leaders, covering: The impact of digital exclusion on mental health and social connections. The significance of charity collaboration and community support in achieving social justice. Practical advice for charity leaders on embedding digital inclusion in their strategies. The crucial role of continuous feedback from users in improving service delivery. A glimpse into the future, exploring the transformative potential of AI and technology in closing the digital divide. Join us to learn how these leaders are working to ensure a world where everyone can benefit from digital. Zoe and Paul also discuss AI developments including the UK government’s new AI Skills Framework. KIDS charity https://www.kids.org.uk/ Digital Services Consortium https://www.kids.org.uk/digital-services-consortium/ Good Things Foundation https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/ Resources from Good Things Foundation: https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-digital-inclusion-network https://www.goodthingsfoundation.org/our-services/national-databank Channel 4 Dispatches programme on AI (Guardian story) https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/oct/21/channel-4-first-ai-presenter-dispatches? Government AI Skills Framework https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-skills-for-the-uk-workforce Editing and production - Paul Thomas Music by Joseph McDade https://josephmcdade.com/music Full transcript of this episode (srt file) Full transcript of this episode (.txt file) Transcripts are also available through your podcast app.