Hosted by Refine Labs, this podcasts is for marketers, by marketers. Whether you're new or seasoned , we want to help you refine your strategies, find meaningful takeaways, and hear real, honest stories of marketers who've been able to make waves for the industry. Combining purposeful tactics and strategies across multiple areas is what it means to Stack Growth - let's help build each other up.
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June 16, 20267 min
Is GEO actually a distribution strategy? A skeptic's take on place in B2B SaaS (feat. Liam Moroney)
Place in B2B used to mean partnerships, system integrators, and analyst relations. Now everyone's adding AEO and GEO to the list. But Matt and Liam question whether being mentioned by an LLM actually changes buying behavior — or whether it's just a new version of the same old "just get in front of people" fallacy. A grounded, skeptical conversation about what distribution really means when your product lives in the cloud. Keywords: GEO, AEO, B2B distribution strategy, B2B SaaS go-to-market, AI search marketing, brand consideration
June 11, 20268 min
B2B pricing is a black box — and marketers are paying for it (feat. Liam Moroney))
Pricing is the most avoided conversation in B2B marketing. It's handed down from finance, rubber-stamped by sales, and marketers are expected to promote whatever number comes out. Matt and Liam make the case that pricing is actually a marketing problem — and that the explosion of "no decision" outcomes in B2B SaaS is largely a symptom of not understanding how buyers think about value relative to cost. Keywords: B2B SaaS pricing, pricing strategy, marketing and finance alignment, go-to-market, buyer psychology
June 2, 20267 min
Product is not marketing's job — and that's the problem
"A CRO told us the word our customers cared about most was extensibility. I'm a marketer — I've never used that word in my life."When was the last time marketing had a real say in what got built? In most B2B SaaS companies, engineers and founders own the product, and marketers inherit whatever comes out the other end. Matt Sciannella and Liam Moroney explore what it would look like for marketers to genuinely influence product direction — not by taking over, but by asking the questions nobody else is asking. Keywords: B2B marketing strategy, product marketing, market research, customer discovery, SaaS go-to-market.
May 19, 202646 min
Why Your Pipeline Dried Up (And What Your Agency Won't Tell You) | Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs
Megan Bowen is the CEO and majority owner of Refine Labs, one of the few B2B demand generation agencies that has built its entire model around the problem most agencies refuse to name: demand capture is easy to measure, demand creation is not — and most companies are spending almost entirely on the former.In this episode, Megan explains why AI doesn't scare her, how the Brand Demand Expand framework maps to core business fundamentals, and what it actually looks like to help a $500M company change how it measures marketing ROI. She also shares the three skills she believes every B2B marketer needs to develop right now, her no-asshole client rule, and the change management playbook she's used to turn around demand gen programs from the inside.If your pipeline has plateaued and your demand gen team can't explain why, this episode is for you.Topics: B2B marketing, demand generation, brand strategy, marketing attribution, change management, AI in marketing, agency leadership, GTM strategy, marketing skills, customer success, pipeline growth
April 29, 202633 min
Does AI Actually Break B2B Positioning?
Does AI really break B2B positioning, or is it exposing deeper product problems? In this roundtable, Refine Labs' VP of Innovation Matt Sciannella sits down with Fletch PMM founders Anthony Pierri and Rob Kaminski to unpack what's actually happening when companies try to position themselves for the AI era.They cover why AI mandates from VCs create confusion (not clarity), how Intercom, Palantir, Salesforce, and Owner.com handle multi-product positioning, and why delegating positioning to LLMs is a race to mediocrity.What is product positioning in B2B SaaS?Product positioning defines who your product is for, what problem it solves, and why it's different from alternatives. It's the upstream decision that drives homepage messaging, paid media, and GTM clarity.How does AI affect B2B positioning strategy?AI doesn't break positioning fundamentals — it adds market uncertainty and product pressure. Companies still must answer: what problem do you solve, for whom, and better than what?Can AI write your positioning for you?No. LLMs can accelerate research and fill in details, but they can't generate non-obvious strategy from scratch. They're best used when humans provide 80% of the thinking first.Why do multi-product companies struggle with positioning?Most markets are fragmented. Customers think narrowly — they're not shopping for "everything." Leading with one clear use case (like Apple with iPhone, Owner.com with restaurant grading) outperforms breadth.What is a go-to-market positioning framework?A GTM positioning framework defines your category, ideal customer profile (ICP), competitive alternatives, differentiated value, and homepage message — in that order, before messaging or campaigns.#b2bmarketing #ProductPositioning #GTMStrategy #B2BSaaS #DemandGeneration #ProductMarketing #AIMarketing #ContentMarketing #SaaSMarketing #RefineLabsRoundtable #FletchPMM #MarketingStrategy #ICPMessaging #HomepageCopywriting #GoToMarket
April 14, 20269 min
What High-Performing GTM Teams Do Right
Matthew Sciannella breaks down what separates high-performing B2B go-to-market teams from the rest — using Ramp and Clay as real-world case studies. From Ramp's Super Bowl surround-sound strategy to Clay's disciplined mid-market segmentation bet, this episode pulls back the curtain on the GTM principles any B2B SaaS team can steal.🔑 Key Takeaways:Why Ramp balances brand + demand in equal measureHow Clay segmented down despite massive funding — and why it workedThe "product is so good, everyone needs to know" first principleWhy creativity wins in "boring" B2B verticalsHow to focus finite ad dollars on a segment before expanding TAM❓ Frequently Asked QuestionsWhat makes a high-performing B2B go-to-market team?High-performing GTM teams start with a great product and low adoption friction, then execute brand and demand in equal measure — using creativity, segmentation, and a strong outbound motion to drive growth.How did Ramp build such strong brand awareness?Ramp used a surround-sound GTM strategy — combining Super Bowl ads, guerrilla video marketing, podcast sponsorships, and direct response ads featuring brand spokespeople like Brian Baumgartner from The Office.How did Clay grow without spending across their entire TAM?Clay bet on mid-market RevOps and marketing personas first, empowered agencies to share results, and built a content flywheel through user-generated content — segmenting with discipline before expanding.What B2B GTM lessons can SaaS companies learn from Ramp and Clay?Even well-funded companies make segmentation trade-offs. Focus ad dollars on your best-fit ICP, align sales and marketing on target accounts, and measure with incrementality — not just first or last touch attribution.Can smaller B2B SaaS companies replicate Ramp's or Clay's strategy?Yes. The fundamentals — strong product, low friction, segmented targeting, and creative storytelling — are accessible at any budget. Scale the creativity, not just the spend.#B2BMarketing #GoToMarket #DemandGeneration #SaaSMarketing #B2BSaaS #RevenueMarketing #PaidMedia #GTMStrategy #B2BGrowth #MarketingStrategy #RefineLabs #ContentMarketing #B2BDemandGen #LinkedInMarketing #RevenueOperations
April 1, 202611 min
Stop Ignoring Demand Inputs
An Ipsos survey of 1,226 marketers across the US, Canada, and Australia asked 10 multiple choice questions on basic marketing fundamentals — and two thirds failed.We're not talking advanced strategy. Segmentation. Positioning. The four Ps. Above-the-line marketing. Omnichannel. Quantitative research. The bare minimum from a year and a half of formal marketing training.This is the state of B2B marketing in 2026.If you're focused on AI efficiency gains, growth hacking, and the next few percentage points of performance — but you can't pass this test — you're optimizing a broken foundation.Matthew Sciannella breaks down what the data actually means for marketers who only do promotion (ads, email, events, SEO) and why that's exactly why so many can't survive past 18 months in a role.Q: What did the Ipsos marketing fundamentals survey find?The Ipsos survey tested 1,226 marketers in the US, Canada, and Australia on 10 multiple choice questions covering segmentation, positioning, the four Ps, above-the-line marketing, omnichannel, and quantitative research. Two thirds failed — with an even split between B2C and B2B marketers.Q: Why do so many B2B marketers only last 18 months in their roles?Marketers who focus exclusively on promotion — running ads, sending emails, attending events, or managing SEO — never develop a durable, full-funnel marketing strategy. Without understanding customers, sales channels, and market positioning, they can't survive a funding round or leadership change.Q: Is AI a substitute for marketing fundamentals?No. AI and growth hacking tactics can improve efficiency at the margins, but they don't replace the strategic foundation of real marketing: understanding your market, your buyer, and how they make decisions. Scraping signals from the internet isn't the same as doing the work.Q: What is the difference between promotion and marketing?Promotion is one of the four Ps of marketing — it includes advertising, email, events, and SEO. Marketing as a discipline covers the full picture: segmentation, targeting, positioning, pricing, product, and channel strategy. Most B2B marketers today only practice promotion.#B2BMarketing #MarketingFundamentals #MarketingStrategy #B2BSaaS #SaaSMarketing #GrowthMarketing #CMO #MarketingLeadership #DigitalMarketing #DemandGeneration #MarketingROI #GTMStrategy #ContentMarketing #MarketResearch #B2BDemandGen #MarketingTips #Ipsos #FourPs #Omnichannel #Refinelabs
March 25, 202658 min
Stop Wasting Budget on BOTS
Are your B2B ads actually reaching humans? Dr. Augustine Fou (founder of Fou Analytics) joins Matt to expose exactly how ad fraud infiltrates Google, LinkedIn, Meta, Reddit, CTV, and programmatic — and the free, simple controls you can put in place today to stop burning budget on bots.Chapters:00:00 – Intro & Dr. Fou's Background05:37 – Google Search & Partner Network Fraud09:31 – Cookie Matching & Bot Impersonation13:58 – How to Control Google Ad Fraud17:27 – PMax & Inclusion Lists19:26 – Reddit Ad Fraud Explained22:17 – LinkedIn Audience Network: Turn It Off24:55 – CTV Fraud: What You're Really Buying34:21 – Why Programmatic Started the Problem37:50 – Inclusion Lists vs. Exclusion Lists41:05 – CPM is a Price, Not a Cost47:31 – Visual Tells: Pixel Stuffing, Non-Rendered Ads52:23 – Frequency Capping Failures#AdFraud #B2BMarketing #ProgrammaticAdvertising #LinkedInAds #GoogleAds #CTVAdvertising #BotTraffic #DigitalMarketing #B2BAdvertising #MarketingROI #FouAnalytics #mediabuying #AdTechWhat is ad fraud in B2B advertising?Ad fraud occurs when bots — not humans — are served your ads, clicking and loading them to generate fraudulent revenue for bad actors. It affects every major platform including Google, LinkedIn, Meta, Reddit, and CTV.How do I stop ad fraud on LinkedIn?Simply uncheck the LinkedIn Audience Network checkbox in your campaign settings. According to Dr. Augustine Fou, this one free action eliminates roughly 90% of the most obvious fraud on the platform.What is the difference between CPM as a price vs. a cost?CPM is a price per thousand impressions — not your total cost. A $3 CPM isn't cheaper than a $30 CPM if you're forced to buy 10x the impressions to hit your goals, most of which may be fraudulent.Is CTV advertising safe from ad fraud?No. Bad actors can fabricate CTV bid requests without owning any TV or streaming device, declaring fake inventory as premium placements. Independent third-party pixels are the only reliable way to verify where your CTV ads actually ran.What is an inclusion list in programmatic advertising?An inclusion list is a curated set of approved sites and apps where your ads are allowed to run. Since there are infinite fraudulent sites but a finite number of legitimate ones humans actually visit, starting with an inclusion list is far more effective than trying to block bad actors one by one.
March 10, 202625 min
How Mature is your Marketing? (part 1: Brand, Demand, Expand)
Matt Sciannella unveils Refine Labs' newest marketing stage measurement tool: the Marketing Maturity Model.Is your business doing reactive marketing? Are you market leaders? Or are you somewhere in between, trying to scale up to a stronger presence?Matt talks through the model and how to understand which stage you may be at.
February 19, 202618 min
This is why you don't trust your agency
Earlier this year, Evan Hughes conducted a survey to marketers, trying to find some insight into what they're really facing right now. Well, the results are in, and the answers to one of the questions gave us some serious pause: "What would most likely cause you to change agencies?" 33% of respondents said they can't clearly explain their impact internally. For obvious reasons, we wanted to spend some time with these answers and break down the potential reasons why marketers feel this way. Matt Sciannella took that time to dive into the potential whys behind this answer in the first episode of his new series: B2B Reality Check.
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