Scaling With People

Hosted by Gwenevere Crary

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157

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Oct 2026

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About the show

Tired of spinning your startup wheels but never gaining traction? Buckle up, founders and CEOs, because this podcast is your rocket fuel to profitability! Every week, we ignite explosive conversations with bold-faced founders, brainy experts, and even a few out-of-this-world vendors. Get ready to crack the code on growth, master employee engagement, and blast through your scaling goals. We’re talking real-world strategies, actionable tips, and perspectives that’ll make your business do a cosmic dance. So, strap in and prepare for lift-off!

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October 28, 202641 min

AI Won’t Fix a Broken Customer Experience: How to Turn Customer Data Into Growth with Matt Clare

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Matthew Clare LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/matthewjclare Website: https://ujet.cx/contact-sales?cls=MKTG&clp=Podcast&utm_source=guidetohr&utm_campaign=scaling-with-people-podcast AI is changing customer service but automating more interactions doesn’t automatically mean better customer experiences or stronger business results. In this episode of Scaling with People , host Gwenevere Crary sits down with Matthew Clare, VP of Product Marketing at UJET and a customer experience and contact center technology veteran, to explore how leaders can use AI to improve customer experience, make smarter workforce decisions, and uncover opportunities for growth. Matthew explains why companies that rush to replace human support with AI can end up with frustrated customers, rising costs, and disappointing results. He shares practical examples of organizations using AI not just to automate routine work, but to reskill employees, expand into new markets, and identify the underlying problems that drive customer contacts in the first place. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why AI adoption isn’t the same as business transformation. Understand why automating customer support doesn’t guarantee ROI—and why the right balance of AI and human support matters. How to make smarter headcount decisions. Before reducing staff, establish clear success metrics, measure the impact of AI, and monitor customer satisfaction, revenue, and costs. How to turn customer feedback into business intelligence. Discover how AI can consolidate conversations, surveys, reviews, and other feedback to reveal recurring issues and their root causes. How AI can unlock growth instead of just cutting costs. Explore examples of companies that reskilled employees and used automation to expand services and enter new markets. How to anticipate customer churn and operational problems. Learn how customer interaction data can help identify risks, improve staffing, and surface opportunities before they become bigger issues. Why you should ask customers how they want to interact with your business. Don’t assume everyone wants a chatbot. Understand customer preferences and make it easy for people to get the help they need. How AI can support employee performance. See how AI-powered quality evaluations, role-play training, and real-time coaching can help employees deliver better service. Matthew also demonstrates Spiral, UJET’s conversational analytics platform, showing how leaders can use natural-language prompts to analyze customer conversations, investigate staffing needs, identify churn drivers, and generate actionable recommendations. The central takeaway: Don’t optimize only for fewer customer interactions. Optimize for fewer customer problems. When you understand why customers need help, you can fix the underlying issues, improve their experience, and free your team to focus on higher-value work. If you’re a founder, executive, or business leader investing in AI, this episode will help you move beyond automation for automation’s sake and focus on measurable business outcomes. About Matthew Clare Matthew Clare is VP of Product Marketing at UJET. With 20 years of experience in customer experience, customer support, and contact center technology—including experience at Google—he helps organizations rethink how technology and human talent work together to deliver better customer experiences. Explore Guide to HR: Visit guidetohr.com to learn how people strategy and AI-powered systems can help growing companies scale smarter. Enjoyed the conversation? Share it with a leader navigating AI adoption, and subscribe to Scaling with People for more practical strategies to turn chaos into compounding growth. Support the show

October 21, 202627 min

Stop Waiting for Permission: 3 Startup Advices Women Founders Should Ignore with Sudeshna Sen

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Sudeshna Sen LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sudeshnasen Website: https://joinpionyr.com/ What if the advice you’re following is actually slowing your business down? In this episode of Scaling with People, host Gwenevere Crary sits down with Sudeshna Sen, serial entrepreneur, tech veteran, and founder of Pionyr, a network supporting women founders from pre-seed through Series B. Drawing on her experience working with hundreds of founders, Sudeshna breaks down three common pieces of startup advice that can cost women entrepreneurs valuable time, money, equity, and opportunity. The problem isn’t always the advice itself—it’s following it without questioning whether it fits your business. In this episode, you’ll learn: - Why you don’t necessarily need a technical co-founder to get started. Explore how AI, no-code tools, fractional talent, and technical advisors can help you build and validate your idea. If you do bring on a co-founder, learn why you should test the working relationship, define roles and milestones, and establish clear equity terms before making a long-term commitment. - How playing it too safe can limit your growth. Understand the difference between credible financial projections and underselling your vision, why underpricing can anchor customers to a lower value, and how to make a stronger case for your business without abandoning realistic assumptions. - Why venture capital isn’t the only path to growth. Learn to think beyond VC and consider a capital strategy that fits your business, including customer revenue, grants, angel investors, and loans. - How to evaluate advice without treating every opinion as a rule. Learn to look for patterns in feedback, ask why someone is making a recommendation, and use your own judgment rather than changing course based on a single investor’s perspective. Sudeshna shares real-world examples of founders who rushed into co-founder agreements, struggled with missed milestones, and gave away equity before establishing whether the partnership would work. Her central message: Investors don’t just fund co-founders—they fund progress. You don’t have to wait for the perfect partner, perfectly safe numbers, or a VC to say yes before moving your business forward. If you’re a woman founder building your next big idea, this conversation will help you challenge conventional wisdom, make more deliberate decisions, and build leverage without waiting for permission. About Sudeshna Sen Sudeshna Sen is a serial entrepreneur and tech veteran with 20 years of corporate experience spanning sales, marketing, and data analytics. As the founder and CEO of Pionyr, she helps women founders access the support, expertise, and network they need to build and scale their businesses. Connect with Guide to HR: Visit https://guidetohr.com to learn how people strategy and AI-powered systems can help growing companies scale smarter. If this episode helped you rethink a piece of advice, share it with a founder who needs to hear it, and subscribe to Scaling with People for more practical strategies for sustainable growth. Support the show

October 14, 202628 min

Scale Profitably: The Startup Rules Founders Should Break with Amanda Lannert

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Amanda Lannert LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandalannert Website: https://www.jellyvision.com/ Do you really need a technical background, millions in venture capital, or a rapidly growing headcount to build a successful tech company? Amanda Lannert, CEO of Jellyvision, challenges conventional startup wisdom. She helped transform a creative business into a profitable, privately held HR tech company known for Alex, its employee benefits platform used by more than 1,600 employers. In this episode of Scaling with People , host Gwenevere Crary talks with Amanda about building a company around customer needs, growing profitably, and creating a culture where people can make decisions without everything running through the CEO. In this episode, you'll learn: Why learning beats knowing everything: How non-technical founders can succeed by asking questions, connecting the dots, and figuring things out. How to turn services into scalable software: Why owning intellectual property and solving repeatable customer problems can create more lasting value than selling time and materials. Why paid pilots matter: How customers willing to pay provide stronger market validation than free trials. How to find your first customer champions: Why selling to the right person with influence and a real problem can matter more than winning a recognizable company logo. Why profitable growth can be a competitive advantage: How customer-funded growth changes the way you make decisions and invest in your business. How to scale culture without losing connection: Why anonymity becomes dangerous as companies grow—and how smaller, cross-functional teams can help people stay connected. When to hire and when to stay lean: How following customer needs can guide hiring decisions and prevent organizational bloat. Why founders should rethink success metrics: Why dollars raised and headcount matter less than the customers you help and the outcomes you create. How to make an overlooked problem a compelling product: How Jellyvision reimagined the confusing, often dreaded experience of choosing employee benefits. Amanda's central message is simple: build a company around the value you create, not the conventional milestones you're expected to chase. You don't have to follow someone else's startup playbook. You need to understand your customers, build a team that can solve meaningful problems, and create a business model that supports sustainable growth. A question for founders: Are you measuring success by the money you've raised and the people you've hired—or by the value your business creates? Subscribe to Scaling with People for practical conversations on leadership, people, and the systems that help growing companies scale smarter. Learn more about Guide to HR at guidetohr.com. Support the show

October 7, 202637 min

Fire Yourself From the Job with Maximos Lih

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Maximos Lih LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximoslih What happens when the skills that built your company become the very things preventing it from scaling? In this episode of Scaling with People , Gwenevere Crary sits down with Maximos Lih , executive coach and founder of Embolden, whose experience recruiting engineering talent at Google and advising founders at Google Ventures gave him a front-row seat to hypergrowth companies like Uber, Slack, and Flatiron Health. Maximos shares what the best founders do differently as their companies grow and why scaling isn't about doing more yourself. It's about knowing the difference between everything you can do and the things only you can do . They explore: Why founders become the bottleneck without realizing it The identity shift from founder-led execution to scalable leadership Why being the company's chief quality-control officer can prevent growth How to build a culture that works when the founder isn't in the room Why templates and "best practices" can fail when they're copied from companies at a different stage How to give talented employees the freedom to solve problems without constantly seeking approval The risks of hiring overly senior executives before the company is ready for them How to build a leadership team using the institutional knowledge already inside your company Why founders should hire for judgment , not just productivity, in an AI-first world How AI changes the way leaders should evaluate talent and quality Why the better AI question isn't "How much efficiency can we create?" but "What can we do now that was impossible six months ago?" How companies can use AI to create new revenue opportunities instead of simply cutting costs One of the biggest takeaways: the culture that matters is the culture that exists when the founder isn't in the room. As your company grows, your job isn't to approve every decision, solve every problem, or check every detail. Your job is to create the principles, people, and systems that allow great decisions to happen without you. If you're a founder or business leader trying to scale without losing your culture, your people, or yourself in the process, this conversation is for you. Key question to take away: What are you doing today that someone else could do—and what are the things that only you can do? Subscribe to Scaling with People for more conversations on leadership, people, AI, and the systems that help growing companies scale smarter. Learn more about Guide2HR: guidetohr.com Support the show

September 30, 202633 min

Revenue Isn’t Cash: Mastering Cash Flow with Elaine Bogart

Send us Fan Mail Revenue may look strong on paper—but if the cash isn't there when you need it, your business can still be in trouble. In this episode of Scaling with People , host Gwenevere Crary sits down with Elaine Bogart , fractional CFO and financial leadership advisor, to demystify the numbers founders need to understand before scaling. Together, they explore why revenue, profit, and cash are not the same thing and how a gap between making a sale and receiving payment can put pressure on payroll, operations, and business runway. Elaine also explains how founders can use forecasting, AI, and the right financial leadership to make better decisions, avoid expensive surprises, and build a stronger financial foundation for growth. In this episode, you'll learn: Why revenue does not always translate into available cash How payment delays can create dangerous cash-flow gaps Why founders should model when money comes in—not just when sales are made How to build and maintain a practical 13-week cash forecast Why short-term forecasts should be more detailed than longer-term projections The key financial numbers founders should understand, including revenue, payroll, operating expenses, margins, and profitability How AI can support forecasting and why human review is still essential Why founders should compare forecasts against actual results and investigate major variances The difference between cash-basis accounting and accrual accounting under GAAP Why businesses should consider their long-term goals when choosing an accounting method How to determine whether your company needs a fractional, project-based, or full-time CFO The difference between an advisory fractional CFO and a more embedded financial leader How to choose a CFO based on your company’s current needs and stage of growth Why putting numbers behind your intuition can lead to better business decisions Key takeaway A strong sale is not the same as strong cash flow. Founders need visibility into when cash will arrive, when expenses must be paid, and how much runway remains. A regularly updated cash forecast—combined with sound financial leadership—can help business owners make smarter decisions before a cash shortage becomes an emergency. About Elaine Bogart Elaine Bogart is a fractional CFO who works with founders, CEOs, and leadership teams across digital media, technology, creative agencies, professional services, and other industries. She helps businesses strengthen their financial systems, improve forecasting, prepare for growth, and make informed strategic decisions. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome to Scaling with People 01:32 — Meet Elaine Bogart 02:28 — Turning finance into a strategic partner 04:13 — When spreadsheets and intuition stop working 06:03 — The cash gap between sales and payment 07:10 — Improving payment terms and cash flow 08:53 — How far ahead should founders forecast? 10:00 — Building a 13-week cash forecast 10:48 — The financial numbers founders should know 12:32 — AI forecasting and the need for human oversight 15:15 — AI workflows for forecasting and planning 17:45 — Using assumptions and asking better questions 18:28 — Comparing forecasts with actual results 19:22 — How forecasting can change business decisions 21:10 — Cash accounting versus GAAP accounting 24:22 — When should a company use GAAP? 25:44 — Choosing the right CFO for your stage 30:10 — Advisory versus embedded fractional CFO support 31:09 — The financial habit every founder should build 32:42 — Closing thoughts Connect with Scaling with People If this conversation helped you think differently about your company’s financial health, share it with another founder or business leader who needs better visibility into their numbers. Scaling isn't just about speed. It's about people. Support the show

September 23, 202634 min

Own Your AI Moat: How Founders Turn AI Into Competitive Advantage with Andrew Brooks

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Andrew Brooks LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewcarrollbrooks/ Website: https://contextual.io/ AI is everywhere. But are you actually using it to build a competitive advantage—or just adding another chatbot to the business? In this episode of Scaling with People , we sit down with Andrew Brooks , serial entrepreneur, multiple-time founder, and CEO of Contextual.io, to unpack what separates AI that genuinely transforms a business from AI that simply generates headlines. Andrew has built and exited technology companies through multiple technology cycles. His perspective on AI is simple but powerful: don't think of AI as just another piece of technology. Think about how it can enable your people, transform your processes, and create new ways to serve customers. We dig into what founders and business leaders should actually be thinking about before investing in AI—from measuring ROI and managing adoption to identifying the data, expertise, and customer relationships that could become a true competitive moat. In this episode, you'll learn: Why AI should be viewed as more than another technology tool How to move beyond AI automation and uncover new revenue opportunities The biggest mistakes companies are making with AI right now Why every digital employee should consider having an AI assistant How to tell the difference between a flashy AI demo and a production-ready system Why edge cases, human oversight, and fallback mechanisms matter The three things to evaluate before investing in an AI initiative: ROI, a ground-level champion, and a staged rollout What it really means for AI to become a teammate rather than just a chatbot When you should buy AI, customize it, or build it yourself How proprietary data and employee expertise can become an AI-powered competitive moat Why “digital Greg” is a powerful example of capturing institutional knowledge The first thing founders should do in the next 30 days if they want to move beyond AI experimentation How combining your proprietary data with external information can uncover patterns and opportunities you might otherwise miss The big takeaway Don't start by asking, “What AI tool should we buy?” Start by asking, “What makes our business unique—and can AI make that advantage stronger?” For Andrew, the distinction between buying and building comes down to whether the AI capability deepens your moat . If it's a commodity task, use an existing tool. If it can turn proprietary data, expertise, or customer relationships into something differentiated, that's where building your own AI capability can create strategic value. About Andrew Brooks Andrew Brooks is a serial entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Contextual.io. His career has included building technology companies across multiple technology shifts, with a focus on applying new technology to underserved markets. Today, Contextual.io focuses on practical, human-centric applications of AI for lower and mid-market businesses. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome to Scaling with People 01:01 — Meet Andrew Brooks and Contextual.io 03:10 — The handwritten note advantage 05:40 — Why AI is different from previous technology cycles 09:34 — The biggest AI mistakes leaders make 11:55 — Moving from AI automation to business transformation 13:54 — Flashy demos vs. production reality 16:34 — The AI investment checklist that matters 20:54 — Designing AI as a real teammate 26:34 — Buy or build based on your moat 29:59 — The first 30 days start with data 31:36 — Turning internal and external data into insight 33:18 — Closing thoughts Connect with Scaling with People: If you found this conversation valuable, share it with a founder, CEO, or business leader who is trying to figure out what AI actually means for their company. Scaling isn't just about speed. It's about people. Support the show

September 16, 202626 min

Scale Without Losing Control: The Systems and People Behind 26 Franchise Locations

Send us Fan Mail How do you scale a business without losing control of quality, culture, or accountability? Brad Coleman knows the problem firsthand. A former NASCAR driver and longtime entrepreneur, Brad bought the driving school where he learned to drive and helped turn it into a growing franchise system. Today, Safeway Driving has expanded across multiple locations while keeping its focus on the mission that started it all: safety first. In this episode of Scaling with People , Brad shares the systems, leadership principles, and guardrails that helped him grow without sacrificing what made the business successful in the first place. We talk about what founders need to build before they scale—and why growing faster isn't always the goal. In this episode, you'll learn: Why quality can matter more than growth when you're scaling a business How to turn a founder's expertise into a repeatable playbook Why documenting your systems is essential before expanding How Brad uses lessons from NASCAR and high-performance teams to lead his business The difference between guardrails and micromanagement How to give people autonomy without sacrificing consistency Why the right franchisees and employees need to be aligned with your mission—not just capable of doing the job How founders can recognize when they have become the bottleneck Why delegating responsibility can improve both business performance and founder well-being How to decide whether a business is ready to move from one location to a scalable franchise model Why Brad deliberately chooses quality over speed when expanding A key lesson for founders You don't scale by making yourself responsible for more. You scale by building systems that other people can execute—and giving capable people enough responsibility to use their strengths. Brad's approach is simple: establish the non-negotiables, build the playbook, train people well, and then give them room to operate inside the guardrails. Because scaling isn't just about adding locations, employees, or revenue. It's about making sure the business can perform consistently without everything depending on the founder. About Brad Coleman Brad Coleman is the CEO of Safeway Driving, a Texas-based driving school and franchise business. A former NASCAR driver, Brad brings lessons from high-performance racing teams into business leadership, franchise operations, training, and organizational growth. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome to Scaling with People 01:26 — From Safeway student to owner 03:05 — What NASCAR teaches us about team execution 06:25 — Why franchising fit the mission 08:14 — Building the playbook before scaling 10:57 — Why quality comes before growth 12:49 — When the founder becomes the bottleneck 15:36 — Creating guardrails for autonomy and consistency 18:37 — Choosing the right franchisees and instructors 20:38 — Looking back on the franchise decision 21:48 — What businesses should consider before franchising 23:07 — Safety first: the leadership lesson 25:20 — Closing thoughts and next steps Listen, follow, and share If you're building a company and trying to scale without losing the people, systems, and quality that made it successful, follow Scaling with People for weekly conversations with founders and experts who've been in the trenches. If this episode gave you an idea you can use in your business, share it with another founder who is trying to scale without losing control. Scaling with People is brought to you by Guide to HR—helping high-growth companies scale smart with people strategies and AI-powered systems. Support the show

September 9, 20261 hr 29 min

Why HR Is a Revenue Strategy, Not Overhead with Trina White

Send us Fan Mail To celebrate the milestone 150th episode of Scaling with People , host Gwenevere Crary steps away from the standard interview format for a candid, executive-level conversation on the real business value of HR. Joined by long-time friend, mentor, and 25-year HR executive Trina White (Founder of Swift Arc Strategic), the two break down why treating HR as a cost center silently drains profits—and how transforming your people strategy drives compounding growth. Key Takeaways HR Is Revenue Strategy, Not Overhead: Businesses often treat HR as a balance sheet expense, but proactive HR acts as an architect for organizational strategy, risk management, and profit protection. The High Cost of Pedigree Hiring: Hiring executives based strictly on titles, degrees, or corporate brand names often leads to culture mismatches and costly early exits if their operational readiness doesn't align with the company's current stage. Mastering Change Management & Layoff Execution: How clear messaging discipline, managerial FAQs, and transparent communication protect customer relationships, team morale, and business productivity during difficult transitions. Executive Courage & Power Differentials: Why founders need leaders around them who feel empowered to ask tough questions, offer pushback, and challenge assumptions rather than agree with every directive. Preventing Profit Leaks: Unpack the hidden, compounding costs of poor onboarding, inaccurate headcount data, misaligned sales commission plans, and non-existent PTO structures. Fractional CHRO Advisory: How early-stage and high-growth founders can leverage fractional HR executives to build flexible, high-impact foundations before scaling full-time leadership. Featured Guests & Host Gwenevere Crary — Host of Scaling with People , Founder & CEO of Guide to HR , Fractional CHRO, and Profit Advisor. Trina White — HR Executive, Mentor, and Founder/Fractional CHRO at Swift Arc Strategic . Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Episode 150: Reflecting on 149 Conversations 02:52 – Introducing Trina White & 50 Years of Combined Experience 04:24 – Why Business Leaders Mislabel HR as Overhead 07:10 – Strategic HR vs. Tactical Execution: Building the Executive Table 09:02 – The Speed and Value of Fractional CHRO Advisory 12:26 – The Pedigree Hiring Trap and Executive Mismatches 19:46 – HR as Prevention: Protecting Profit Lines & Human Dignity 26:58 – Internal Communications, Messaging Discipline, and Transparency 32:02 – Case Study: Executing a Layoff Plan That Avoids Customer & Team Chaos 37:47 – Overcoming Executive Power Differentials with Honest Pushback 44:39 – How Bad Hires and Speed-Driven Recruitment Drain the Business 50:36 – Onboarding Breakdowns, Data Blindness, and Retention Leaks 59:54 – Designing Incentive & Commission Plans That Don't Bleed Margin 01:01:49 – When Should Founders Invest in HR Strategy? 01:13:27 – Rapid Fire Takes: Unlimited PTO, AI in HR, Company Protection, and Culture 01:23:44 – One Piece of Advice for Founders Before Hiring Employee #10 Resources & Links Guide to HR: guidetohr.com Swift Arc Strategic: Swift Arc Strategic on LinkedIn Connect with Gwenevere Crary: LinkedIn Support the show

September 2, 202624 min

You Haven’t Made the Sale Until You Get Paid with Grace Tabib

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Grace Tabib LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracetabib/ Website: https://dupayme.com/ You closed the deal. You delivered the work. So why isn't the money in your bank account? In this episode of Scaling with People , Gwendaver Crury sits down with attorney and founder Grace Sabine to unpack one of the most overlooked threats to business growth: unpaid invoices . Grace shares why getting paid isn't an administrative problem—it's a scaling, cash-flow, and founder-time problem . Together, they explore: Why a project isn't really finished until you're paid The hidden financial, emotional, and opportunity costs of chasing invoices The three biggest reasons invoices go unpaid: ghosting, administrative delays, and disputes How one unpaid $120,000 invoice can become a serious runway problem for a growing company Why contracts and clear payment terms matter before the work even begins When to use deposits and milestone payments instead of waiting until the end of a project How founders can negotiate payment terms with the people who actually control the money Why the creator economy is especially vulnerable to payment delays How AI can help with operational and legal workflows—and where human judgment still matters The one operational system every founder should put in place tomorrow The big takeaway: Getting the deal is exciting. Getting paid is what keeps the business alive. If you're a founder, freelancer, agency, or business owner who has ever thought, “I'll just chase this invoice myself,” this conversation will make you rethink the true cost of that decision. About Grace Sabine Grace Sabine is a Columbia Law graduate and founder focused on helping businesses protect the revenue they've already earned. Through Dupe, she combines technology, AI, and human advocacy to help businesses recover unpaid invoices and build better systems around contracts and payments. Listen now—and ask yourself: Are you actually growing if your revenue isn't reaching your bank account? If you found this episode valuable, follow Scaling with People and share it with a founder who needs to hear it. Support the show

August 26, 202633 min

Your Middle Managers May Be the Reason You Can’t Scale with Nick Avaria

Send us Fan Mail Guest: Nick Avaria LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickavaria/ Website: https://agencyacquisitions.io Your business can have a great strategy, strong leaders, and talented people—and still hit a growth ceiling. In this episode of Scaling with People , Nick Avaria explains why the missing middle —the layer between senior leadership and frontline employees—can quietly become the biggest bottleneck to growth. Nick has built, bought, and sold seven agencies and scaled multiple businesses to seven and eight figures. He shares the hard lessons that taught him why simply promoting high-performing individual contributors into management often fails—and what founders can do instead. We dig into the difference between leadership and management , why high performers can become ineffective managers, and how unclear accountability and decision-making authority can cost a business real revenue. Nick also breaks down a practical framework founders can use to create a management layer that actually scales. In this episode, we discuss: Why your business may be stuck because of the missing middle The difference between leadership and management—and why you need both Why being a great individual contributor does not automatically make someone a great manager Nick's painful lesson in accountability that resulted in roughly one-third of his company's revenue being lost How better systems eventually helped the business recover with dramatically higher profitability Why managers should be measured on their ability to replicate and develop high-performing people The Objective → Metric → KPI framework for connecting individual roles to business results Why dashboards give managers and employees the visibility they need to perform How RACI and permission sets can eliminate decision-making bottlenecks How founders can tell whether their management layer is solving problems—or creating more work for the leadership team Why management training and development cannot be an afterthought The four foundational systems Nick recommends building before your management layer becomes a growth constraint The four systems Nick recommends 1. Objectives, Metrics & KPIs Give every role a small number of clearly defined objectives, measurable outcomes, and leading indicators. 2. Dashboards Make performance visible so people can see what is happening and respond before problems become crises. 3. RACI / Permission Sets Clarify who can make which decisions, what requires approval, and where each person's authority begins and ends. 4. Management Training Teach managers how to delegate, manage performance, lead change, create accountability, and develop their people. One question for founders If you're constantly doing your managers' jobs for them, don't immediately assume you have the wrong managers. Ask: Did I actually give them the systems, authority, expectations, data, and training they need to succeed? Because you don't scale a business by simply adding more people. You scale the people who run it. About Nick Avaria Nick Avaria is a serial entrepreneur who has built, acquired, and sold multiple agencies and scaled businesses to seven and eight figures. His experience spans industrial services, consulting, digital marketing, agencies, and several unconventional businesses. His work focuses on the systems, management practices, and operating structures that help businesses scale more predictably. About Scaling with People Scaling with People is the weekly playbook for turning chaos into compounding growth. We go under the hood with founders and battle-tested experts across people, leadership, sales, marketing, operations, finance, and technology to uncover the systems and strategies that help businesses scale without breaking. If this episode gave you a new way to think about your management layer, follow Scaling with People and share this episode with a founder who is trying to break through their next growth ceiling. Learn more about Guide to HR at Guide2HR.com. Support the show