REFS NEED LOVE TOO

Hosted by David Gerson

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Episodes

120

Latest episode

Nov 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

November 5, 202652 min

If You Love Soccer, You Should Still Be Playing It - A Conversation with COO of UNLMTD Johnathan Lupinelli

Send us Fan Mail Soccer doesn’t have to be something you “used to play.” A lot of us grow up around the game, spend years in the pay-to-play youth soccer grind, and then quietly drift into being full-time fans after high school or college. That drop-off is exactly what we’re tackling here, because a country with tens of millions of soccer lovers shouldn’t feel like it has nowhere safe, affordable, and welcoming to actually play. We start with two listener letters that hit hard. Willie, a 15-year-old with hemiparesis, writes a stunning note about humility, mental resilience, and what it means to “humanize the badge” as a referee. Then Sean shares a painful story about a U11 match that spirals, a second yellow that turns into a red card, and the kind of sideline abuse that can shake anyone’s confidence. I talk through the reset that matters most: your most important call is the next one, plus practical tools to slow the game down, regain control, and learn from film instead of getting stuck in shame. Then Jonathan Lupinelli, COO and co-founder of UNLMTD Soccer, joins me to break down the real soccer participation problem in the United States and the fix he’s building: small-sided 5v5 soccer facilities designed for access, community, safety, and lifelong play. We compare soccer culture in France vs the US, dig into why 5v5 works for both youth development and adult recreational soccer, and talk about creating a zero-tolerance environment for toxic behavior. Jonathan also shares where Unlimited is expanding and how to drop in and play. If you want more people playing the beautiful game, not just watching it, subscribe, share this with a soccer friend, and leave a review so more players and referees can find the show. Support the show

October 23, 202629 min

Life Changing Experience - Cerebal Palsy World Cup

Send us Fan Mail There’s a World Cup happening that most soccer fans never think to look for, and it might be the most inspiring tournament I’ve ever stepped into. I’m talking about the IFCPF World Cup, the international cerebral palsy soccer World Cup, hosted at the US Soccer headquarters. From 7v7 men’s matches to 5v5 women’s games, the speed and intensity are real, and the athletes are absolutely legitimate footballers, even while managing cerebral palsy, traumatic brain injury, or stroke-related impairment. I break down how CP soccer works, including the on-field accommodations and the functional classification system (FT1, FT2, FT3) that keeps matches fair and competitive. We also talk about what makes this tournament unique this year, from the mix of nations to the emotional edge you feel during walkouts and anthems. Even when ability levels vary by program resources, the pride is the same, and the styles of play still look unmistakably Japanese, Colombian, Scottish, Spanish, English, and American. Then I take you behind the scenes as a soccer referee: how I got invited, what it’s like walking into a locker room with international officials and former FIFA referees, and what I learn working alongside elite leadership in high-pressure matches. I also share a couple moments I wish I could take back, plus the mental cues that help me reset fast and stay sharp when the next decision matters. If you care about refereeing, adaptive sports, or the parts of soccer that remind you why you fell in love with the game, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share this with a referee friend, and leave a review with the biggest takeaway you’re stealing for your next match. Support the show

October 2, 20261 hr 13 min

A FIFA Ref Explains Why Mental Health Matters - Margaret Domka, Former FIFA Referee and Executive Director of the US Center for Mental Health in Sport

Send us Fan Mail One bad moment on a sideline can wreck a match, end a referee’s season, or follow someone home for weeks. We start with real-world, field-tested guidance on spectator interaction: what to expect, what to ignore, when to explain a call, and why confronting parents directly so often backfires. If you care about referee abuse, match control, and keeping games safe for kids, this first part is packed with practical referee tips you can use this weekend. Then I’m joined by Margaret Domka, co-founder and executive director of the U.S. Center for Mental Health and Sport and a former FIFA Women’s World Cup referee. Margaret gets honest about confidence, mistakes, and the “10,000 decisions” reality where a few seconds can hijack your entire week. We talk about pressure, isolation, and why referees and athletes need more than toughness. They need tools, language, and support systems that make mental health in sports as normal to address as a sprained ankle. We also dig into what actually helps: community check-ins, mentors who ask “Are you OK?”, and training that works like mental health first aid. Margaret explains the ACT Mental Health Awareness Certification and how it equips sports organizations, coaches, parents, and officials to recognize warning signs, respond early, and connect people to professional care. We close with insights from the National Association of Sports Officials survey, including what drives referee retention and why women officials need development reps, not shortcuts. If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with your referee crew or club leaders, and leave a review so more sports communities can build safer sidelines and stronger mental health. Support the show

September 18, 20261 hr 9 min

You Can Start Late And Still Be Great! Jim Lacey Shares Regionals Experience.

Send us Fan Mail You can be in your mid-50s, start refereeing “late,” and still earn the biggest assignments if you show up prepared, fit, and professional. That’s the heart of our conversation with Jim Lacey, a Los Angeles-area-based grassroots referee, mentor, and instructor who also happens to be a cancer epidemiologist. Jim shares how he moved from AYSO into USSF, started working higher levels alongside his son, and learned what tournament environments like Far West Regionals truly reward. We also get real about referee safety in Southern California: punishing late-summer heat, relentless sun, limited shade at big complexes, and the pressure to work game after game with almost no downtime. Jim breaks down why sun exposure is not just discomfort, it’s a long-term health risk tied to skin cancer prevention, and why leagues should think about scheduling, breaks, hydration, and recovery for officials the same way they do for players. Then we dive into the moment every ambitious soccer referee wants to understand: how opportunities open up at Regionals. Jim walks through being labeled an outlier, getting assignments that felt limiting, choosing to treat a U12 match with total respect and sharp mechanics, and turning that performance into a higher-level “prove it” match. The result is a story about credibility, composure, and why no assignment is ever “small” when coaches and assessors are watching. If you’re a grassroots referee, a USSF referee chasing upgrades, or a mentor trying to build the next generation, this one will hit home. Subscribe, share this with a referee who needs it, and leave a review with the best advice you’ve ever gotten on the field. Support the show

September 2, 202642 min

You Can Save A Life By Starting A Conversation - Dr. Skye Arthur-Banning Discussing Mental Health in Sport Part 2

Send us Fan Mail You can love sports and still admit this: the culture can be brutal on mental health. I sit down with Sky Arthur-Banning to talk about why sport is one of the best places to spot distress early, reduce stigma, and build real support networks for athletes, coaches, parents, and officials. We also name the stakes, including suicide prevention, the reality that many people suffer in silence, and why knowing resources like the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline matters. Sky breaks down the mission behind the U.S. Center for Mental Health and Sport and how it grew from work with veterans and adaptive sport communities. The big idea is simple and powerful: people may avoid anything labeled “mental health,” but they will show up for sport, and that is where trust already lives. From there, the Center delivers practical training that fits real schedules and real sidelines, from youth soccer to NCAA programs and pro organizations. We dig into the ACT Certification, a two-hour, sport-specific approach that works like CPR for mental health: you are not becoming a clinician, you are learning how to start the conversation, recognize warning signs, and connect someone to support. We also talk about what this means for referees managing dissent and emotion, why authenticity matters on the field, and what youth sports needs to change if we want safer, healthier environments for everyone. If you care about mental health in sports, referee wellbeing, adaptive soccer, and building better youth sports culture, hit play, share this with someone in your club, and subscribe, rate, and review so more people find the conversation. Support the show

August 28, 202650 min

Adaptive Soccer, Real Impact with Dr. Skye Arthur-Banning - Part 1

Send us Fan Mail A retired Army Ranger captaining Team USA after a traumatic brain injury. A World Cup coming to Georgia that most soccer fans do not even know exists. A version of the game where the toughest calls are not about memorizing rules, but about understanding how an athlete’s body moves and what “fair” really means. That’s where this conversation with Dr. Skye Arthur Banning takes us, and it left me genuinely rethinking the craft of officiating the beautiful game. Skye is a Clemson professor of sport management, a veteran NCAA referee, and a leader in two of the most demanding corners of officiating: cerebral palsy football (CP football) and blind soccer. We break down what makes CP football its own sport, including seven-a-side play, roll-ins, no offside, and the classification system (FT1, FT2, FT3) that keeps competition balanced. He also explains how referees adjust decisions by reading “natural position” through the lens of an individual athlete’s disability, not just a generic model of movement. Then we pivot into blind soccer, one of the most intense and inspiring forms of adaptive sport. We talk sound balls, blackout eye shades, sighted goalkeepers, guides behind the goal, and the “voy” rule that requires defenders to announce a challenge or concede a foul. If you have ever wondered how athletes who cannot see can dribble, pass, and score at speed, this will make you a believer. If this changed how you see the Laws of the Game, share it with a referee or coach, subscribe for part two, and leave a review so more people find adaptive soccer and the people building it. Support the show

August 18, 202658 min

Inside SOCAL Soccer League's Plan To Address America's Grassroots Referee Shortage with special guest, Michelle Chesters, Executive Director of SOCAL Soccer League

Send us Fan Mail Youth soccer can’t function without referees, yet too many leagues treat officials like an afterthought until the shortage hits. I sit down with Michelle Chesters, Executive Director of SoCal Soccer League, to talk candidly about what it really takes to support referees across one of the biggest youth soccer footprints in the United States: roughly 5,200 teams, over 50,000 players, and games scattered across about 1,200 field locations on a typical weekend. When that many matches rely on grassroots officials, referee development becomes core league infrastructure, not a side project. We dig into the decisions SOCAL is making to improve the referee experience and raise the standard on the field: creating a full-time referee programming and development role, building a practical learning management system for grassroots referees, and increasing referee pay from $2 per minute to $3 per minute with clear expectations attached. We also talk about safety and sideline culture, including stronger consequences for spectator misconduct and why accountability has to cover the full ecosystem. Then we get specific on data-driven improvement with the Fair Whistle reporting platform: quick post-match surveys, trend tracking across thousands of games, and the right way to use video clips for education instead of replaying results. If you care about referee abuse, referee shortage solutions, youth soccer culture, and building better officials at the grassroots level, this conversation is a blueprint. Subscribe, share with your club, and leave a review so more leagues hear what’s possible. Support the show

August 14, 202649 min

Heat, Hustle, And The Referee’s Limit & Guest on the Powershift Mindshift Podcast with Coach Jay

Send us Fan Mail Four games. Full sun. Ninety degrees. And not a single real break between assignments. We’re talking about the part of soccer nobody wants to face until it goes wrong: extreme heat, overloaded referee schedules, and why the current setup can push officials toward dangerous decisions and real health risk, especially on turf that can feel like 140 degrees at field level. If you’ve ever wondered how referees are supposed to stay sharp, fair, and safe when the calendar is packed for tournament profit, you’ll hear the unfiltered reality here. From there, we get into the surprising truth about youth soccer officiating: U12 can feel tougher than U17. Not because of speed, but because of unpredictable bounces, awkward contact, tight spaces, and parents close enough to comment on every moment. We also unpack how assigners and leagues can set young officials up for failure when experience doesn’t match the intensity of the match, and what “respect for the game” looks like in practice: preparation, fitness, movement, and treating every level like it matters. I was recently a guest on the Powershift Mindset podcast hosted by Coach Jay. We dug into high school soccer vs USSF, including why handball arguments explode and how simple referee communication (voice, signals, and quick explanations) can shut down dissent before it spreads. If you’re a referee, coach, or soccer parent, you’ll leave with concrete tools for match management, cautions, and calmer sidelines, plus a better understanding of what officials are balancing every minute. Subscribe for more real referee talk, share this with your referee crew, and leave a review. What’s the hardest environment you’ve seen for officials: turf heat, U12 sidelines, or high school coaches? Support the show

August 4, 202644 min

How Three Young Referees Are Helping Launch An HBCU Soccer Program

Send us Fan Mail You can feel it right away: this isn’t a normal college soccer conversation. We’re talking with Morgan Dunham, Zachary Eggeston, and Kingston McDonald as they help launch the brand-new Tuskegee Golden Tigers men’s and women’s soccer programs, stepping onto campus as the first wave of players tasked with building an NCAA team culture from nothing. No hand-me-down traditions, no “ask the seniors,” just a blank slate and the pressure of knowing every standard they set becomes part of the program’s identity. What makes their perspective even sharper is that they’re not only players; they’re referees too. We get into what it’s like living on both sides of the whistle: how knowledge changes decision-making on the field, why arguing rarely helps, and how referee abuse can either break your confidence or forge it. They share real stories of big offside decisions, chaotic moments, and the mindset it takes to make a call with people in your face and still stay composed. We also zoom out to the bigger picture of soccer in the United States: the pay-to-play problem, the way cost pushes talented kids out of the sport, and why the World Cup and growing diversity in U.S. Soccer could be a turning point for access in Black communities and beyond. You’ll also hear how a docuseries will follow the team through this first season and how fans can track their progress. To follow their journey on Insta: @skegeemsoccer @skegeewsoc Subscribe for more real soccer and refereeing stories, share this with someone who cares about access and development, and leave a review with your take: what would it take to make youth soccer affordable where you live? Support the show

July 18, 20261 hr 1 min

New Laws of the Game 2026/27 with Nathan Magill, Director of Education from US Soccer

Send us Fan Mail Five seconds. That’s the new line between “let’s get on with it” and a restart that flips against you. We sit down with Nathan McGill, Director of Referee Education and Development at U.S. Soccer, to unpack the IFAB Laws of the Game 2026-2027 changes that will hit community matches fast, especially anything related to time wasting, match tempo, and ball-in-play time. If you referee youth soccer, adult amateur, or semi-pro games, this conversation is designed to help you walk onto the field on day one with a clear plan and confident communication. We break down the practical mechanics behind the five-second countdown on throw-ins and goal kicks, including the key question every referee is asking: when does the count actually start? Nathan explains why the whistle matters when the ball is dead, why the count can begin before the ball is in the thrower’s hands, and how U.S. Soccer wants referees to use visible and verbal communication to reduce surprises and conflict. We also dig into the tactical impact of a delayed goal kick becoming a corner kick, and what that means for coaches who still teach “wait, then go long” at the end of matches. From there, we tackle the tougher grassroots challenges: the 10-second substitution expectation and the consequence that can leave a team short for a full minute, plus injury management when a trainer enters the field and the one-minute off-field requirement with important exceptions. We also clarify Law 4 updates on jewelry and accessories, highlight the DOGSO advantage update when a goal is scored, and get Nathan’s take on body cameras and the push for captain-only communication to cut dissent. If you want the clearest path to consistent, safe, fair match control under the new rules, this is your playbook. Subscribe, share this with your referee crew, and leave a review with the law change you think will cause the most confusion in August. Support the show