REFS NEED LOVE TOO

Hosted by David Gerson

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Episodes

109

Latest episode

Jun 2026

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EN-US

About the show

An honest perspective from the 3rd team on the pitch... the referees. Through humor, analysis and education, we are slowly changing how people view referees and officials in all sports. We care and have a love for the game as much as any player or coach. Sometimes even more. Youth soccer (proper football) is a multi-billion $ industry in the US. Tremendous money is spent on players, competitions, travel etc., but almost nothing spent on developing the next generation of referees. I hope that this Podcast inspires, educates and humanizes the next generation of referees for their own development and appreciation from the players, coaches and spectators they need to work alongside.

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60 recent

June 9, 202654 min

We Need Better Systems To Support Officials with Huck Sorock of REFR Sports

Send us Fan MailThe World Cup is almost here, and my life is about to get loud in the best way: I’m heading to seven matches with FIFA and TikTok as a Creator Correspondent, with access that changes what I can share and where I can share it. That excitement is real, but so is the deeper reason I care about this tournament. When the US Men’s National Team takes the field, you see a diverse group that reminds us what it looks like to pull in the same direction, even when the country feels split apart. We also sit with a story that is hard to shake: a Somali FIFA referee, after years of screening and international travel, reportedly lands in Miami and is denied entry for “vetting concerns.” We talk about what that decision costs on a human level, what it suggests about travel bans and bias, and why judging people as individuals matters. For anyone who loves soccer, refereeing, and the integrity of global sport, it’s a moment worth examining out loud. Then we get tactical with Huck Sorock from Refer Sports about the biggest hidden problem in youth sports and amateur soccer: referee assigning. We dig into what modern referee assigning software should actually do, from paying officials faster to reducing admin chaos during massive tournaments. We talk AI schedule imports, agentic AI as a productivity multiplier, building an in-app community for training and support, and why retention improves when assigners can spend less time on spreadsheets and more time mentoring refs. If you care about sports officiating, referee retention, and smarter assigning systems, this one is for you. Subscribe for more, share this with an assigner or official who needs better tools, and leave a review so more referees can find the show.Support the show

May 28, 20261 hr 11 min

Coach Challenges And Video Review In College Soccer with John Collins, NCAA Head of Officiating

Send us Fan MailCollege soccer is about to change in ways that will hit everyone on match day: referees, coaches, players, and the people in the stands wondering why the game has stopped again. After sharing a personal weekend at the brand-new U.S. Soccer National Training Center, including the eye-opening mechanics of officiating deaf and power wheelchair matches, we bring on one of the best voices to explain what’s coming next for the NCAA.John Collins, the NCAA national coordinator of soccer officials and a professional assessor across MLS, NWSL, and USL, walks us through the biggest NCAA soccer rules changes. We dig into the move to a coach-initiated video review challenge system, what incidents are actually reviewable, and why replay in college can be painfully slow without a full VAR team, dedicated replay operators, and a deep set of camera angles. John also breaks down why the fourth official becomes even more important now, how substitution opportunities shift when the clock is stopped, and what the optional Video Match Official role could mean for the future.We also tackle the men’s Division I fall-spring calendar proposal, the student-athlete wellness case behind it, and the ripple effects on referee scheduling, development, and opportunity across all divisions. We wrap with the cultural hold of the countdown clock, plus discipline updates like simplifying violent behavior categories and new bench decorum accountability that puts staff cautions onto the head coach’s accumulation. If you care about NCAA soccer officiating, video review, coach challenges, and the direction of the college game, this is the roadmap. Subscribe, share with your referee crew, and leave a review with your take on coach challenges and replay time.Support the show

May 21, 202655 min

World Cup Concerns on the "For Ref's Sake!" Podcast

Send us Fan MailThe strangest part about refereeing is that everyone sees you, but almost nobody knows you. This week David was a guest on the "For Ref's Sake" podcast. We talk about how I went from a grassroots soccer referee turned global creator during the COVID era, which sparked a community where referees, coaches, players, and parents can finally talk about the game like humans. What happens when officials stop being faceless and start being approachable, educational, and honest about how decisions get made?We get into the real craft of officiating: why the Laws of the Game are subjective, how positioning and angle change everything, and how to discuss big moments like DOGSO, SPA, serious foul play, reckless challenges, and offensive or insulting language without turning it into clickbait. David shares why he tries to lead with a teacher’s heart, how he keeps up with the flood of clips and questions, and what it takes to build a sustainable refereeing platform that includes short-form content, long-form podcasting, and referee gear that funds the work.Then we zoom out to World Cup 2026 in the United States. David lays out concerns many fans are not hearing loudly enough: visa barriers, high costs, heat and humidity, political headwinds, and the possibility of empty seats early on. But there is optimism too, including why ticket and housing prices may drop and why visitors can still expect warmth from everyday Americans. We close with a simple standard for any official who wants to level up: integrity, courage, a willingness to learn, and a deep love for the game.Subscribe for more conversations that make you better on the pitch, share this with a ref who needs encouragement, and leave a review with your biggest referee lesson or sideline story.Support the show

May 14, 202642 min

You Can Build A Referee Program That Kids Want To Join with Carlos Ledesma

Send us Fan MailThe fastest way to lose a new referee is to certify them online and then throw them into the deep end on a busy weekend. We start with a few big updates from my world, including our first Dr. Tom Gerson Pops Memorial Scholarships for referees and why telling those stories every year matters to me and my family.Then I’m joined by Carlos Ledesma, a Northern California assigner, director of referees, and certified mentor who has quietly built what a lot of leagues are missing: a repeatable system to recruit, train, develop, and retain soccer referees. Carlos breaks down how he sells refereeing to 13 and 14-year-olds, why shadowing works in real games, and how club scrimmages can become a low-pressure training ground where new officials learn mechanics, positioning, pregame routines, and confidence before the first “real” assignment.We also get practical about referee safety and retention: sideline seating policies that keep spectators off the assistant referee’s back, strict zero tolerance expectations, and the underrated step of communicating with referees after a referee abuse report so they know action was taken. If you’re an assigner, club leader, coach, or referee mentor trying to solve the referee shortage with better training instead of wishful thinking, you’ll leave with a model you can copy.Subscribe for more behind-the-scenes referee conversations, share this with your local club, and leave a review so more officials and assigners can find the show.Support the show

April 25, 20266 min

Update! Bouncing Back After A Mistake

Send us Fan MailA single referee mistake can hijack your confidence for days, especially when it happens in a high school playoff match with a crowd watching. I share a raw update on a procedural error I had to admit publicly, including the moment I took a go-ahead goal off the board and how heavy that felt after the final whistle. If you’ve ever walked to your car replaying one decision on repeat, you’ll recognize the mix of pride, guilt, and the need to keep showing up anyway. From there, we pivot to the quick reset that every soccer referee needs: an easy assistant referee night that still had its own challenge (yes, you can get cooked by the sun even at a “night” game). Then we get into a competitive Georgia high school soccer matchup between 6A teams where game management matters on every touch. We talk injuries, five yellow cards, delays of restart, reckless challenges, and how using comms with a strong crew helps us spot flashpoints and keep players from boiling over. We close with the small details that make officials better: smarter positioning on goal kicks, opening your body to read the long ball, and why over-apologizing (“I’m sorry”) can actually make dissent worse. There’s also a quick referee gear update with new referee socks and the latest on grip socks restocking and why they sell out so fast. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a ref friend, and leave a review so more officials can find it.Support the show

April 23, 202629 min

Integrity Over Ego: Why I Took a Goal Off the Board

Send us Fan MailA playoff match can feel perfect for 50 minutes and then unravel in 10 seconds. That’s what happened to me in Georgia, and I’m not proud of it. I’m sharing the full, raw story of a high school postseason game where I made a procedural mistake on a restart, saw the consequences hit the scoreboard, and then had to make the hardest choice a referee can make in public: admit it and fix it.We talk through the whole arc, from pregame prep and crew dynamics to why comms can help when things get fast. I break down a clear DOGSO handball moment on a corner kick that leads to a penalty and a red card, then the decision that changed everything: allowing a quick free kick when the ball was still moving. When that restart turns into a goal, the match explodes. I consult the crew, swallow my ego, disallow the goal, and deal with the reality that doing the “right” procedural thing can still look terrible to players, coaches, and fans.If you care about soccer officiating, NFHS rules, playoff game management, referee mindset, and getting back up after a rough night, this one is for you. Subscribe, share it with a referee friend, and leave a review with the toughest lesson you’ve learned on the field.Support the show

April 16, 202644 min

Brand New at 42 with Holly Jimenez - It's Never Too Late To Be Great!

Send us Fan MailThe hardest part of picking up a whistle as an adult isn’t learning the signals, it’s walking onto the field while everyone assumes you’ve done this forever. Holly Jimenez knows that feeling firsthand. She starts refereeing at 42, feels the nerves at U9 games, makes the kind of mistakes that haunt you on the drive home, and still keeps showing up until her experience builds and the confidence grows.We get into how she goes from local youth soccer to top level assignments like MLS NEXT environments and semi-pro matches in the WPSL and UPSL, including what changes when you’re in a stadium with real crowds and veteran officials. Holly breaks down the pieces that accelerate referee development: mentors who give honest feedback, assigners who challenge you at the right pace, and the mindset shift of treating mistakes as part of referee training rather than proof you don’t belong.Holly also brings a unique edge to soccer officiating: she’s a longtime Spanish teacher, and her ability to speak Spanish can instantly cool down dissent, build rapport, and even catch the sideline when people assume the referee won’t understand. We also talk directly about the reality of being a female referee, the sexism that still shows up on touchlines, and why communities like the Female Referee Organization of Georgia matter for retention, safety, and growth.If you care about better game management, stronger support for referees, and getting more women into officiating, you’ll take something practical from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with a referee friend, and leave a review so more officials can find the show.Support the show

April 5, 202647 min

What Elite FIFA Officials Can Teach Grassroots Referees with Jan Aravirtra, Referee Academy

Send us Fan MailThe fastest way to level up as a soccer referee is not learning one more obscure law, it is learning how to handle people when the match te. I’m joined by Jan Aravitra, a former FIFA international referee from Finland with nearly two decades at the top level, including UEFA competitions and World Cup qualifiers. We get into the behind-the-scenes reality of working with different crews, different cultures, and different communication styles, especially from the perspective of an elite assistant referee.We talk about focus in hostile environments, and how you can “block out the noise” without ignoring the emotional temperature of the benches and spectators. Jan explains why players care so much about being treated fairly, how repeated moments can snowball into dissent, and what experienced officials do to keep the game balanced and under control. We also dig into practical man management: when to build rapport, when to stay composed, why yelling back never works, and how the best referees set clear borders without turning the match into a debate.Then we shift into referee education and development. Jan shares why he built the Referee Academy, how video feedback and live clip discussions accelerate learning for grassroots referees, and why community is a key factor in referee retention and mental health. If you’re a new ref trying to survive your first seasons or a veteran trying to mentor others, you’ll take away specific habits you can use on your very next match.If this helps you, subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with a referee who needs support, and leave a review so more officials can find the show.Support the show

March 13, 202649 min

Premier League Referee Scott Ledger on Longevity, Learning and Love of the Game

Send us Fan MailA soldier-turned-official sets a six-year goal to reach the Premier League—and makes it! Then he does an even rarer thing: he stays for over 15 years! We sit down with Scott Ledger, a 500+ appearance Premier League Assistant Referee and FA Cup Final appointee, to unpack the craft behind elite officiating—how preparation, humility, and sharp eyes under pressure create credibility when tens of thousands are judging every move.Scott takes us inside the modern toolkit: pre-match data packs that map set-piece patterns and passing lanes, film study to anticipate offside traps and screens, and the small human edge of knowing players’ first names to defuse tension. He breaks down why “looking switched on” matters as much as getting the call right, especially for assistant referees who spend long stretches semi-active but must sell a complex decision in a heartbeat. We also explore the mental game of VAR: delayed flags, instant feedback, and the rubber-band reset that helps him let go of the last check and lock in for the next one.From fitness to field craft, Scott explains the lateral speed work, GPS targets, and position resets that keep him aligned with lightning-fast wingers. He shares the culture shock of moving from Sunday League to the Premier League’s event-level logistics, plus a fan encounter that turned into a mini laws seminar. And he pitches a smart IFAB tweak to curb time-wasting on goalkeeper “injuries” by forcing a teammate to leave—small changes that could protect game flow without gimmicks from goalkeepers.It’s a candid, practical masterclass for referees, coaches, and football obsessives who want to see the game with clearer eyes. If you value preparation, composure, and the pursuit of marginal gains, this conversation will sharpen how you watch—and how you work. If you've enjoyed it, please follow the show, share with a ref friend, and leave a quick review to help more people find us.Support the show

February 25, 202643 min

Respect The Call, Change The Game with Kari Seitz, VP of Referees for US Soccer

Send us Fan MailAbusive sidelines don’t fix bad calls—and they’re driving referees out of the game. We sat down with U.S. Soccer’s Vice President of Referees, Kari Seitz, to break down how “Respect the Call” and Policy 531-9 are changing that story with clear standards, real accountability, and education designed for today’s crews.We start with the foundation: knowing the difference between a raw emotional reaction and dissent. That clarity matters because early, consistent action keeps matches from spiraling. Kari explains the new video series that teaches practical skills most officials never learn in class—how to read tone and proximity, how to set boundaries, and even how to show a card with presence so your message lands the first time. You’ll hear why empowering young and new referees to act decisively is the single best way to prevent escalation and protect the flow of the game.From there, we zoom out to the system. Kari walks us through centralized reporting for abuse, fair and age-appropriate sanctions, and league adoption that extends to parents on the touchline. We also explore the U.S. Refereeing Way, a national push to unify instruction and mechanics so referees in California and Georgia get the same guidance on AR positioning, dissent management, and match control. Think modern training modules, shareable vertical videos, and a future “referee passport” to track experience, education, and progression—less guesswork, more support.If you’ve ever wondered how to stop the churn of officials, this conversation shows the roadmap: consistent definitions, confident enforcement, and a culture that treats referees as essential to soccer. Watch the new Respect the Call videos, share them with your club, and put the standards into practice. We need your help!Support the show