ProfitLed Podcast

Hosted by Melissa Kwan

Business Entrepreneurship

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Oct 2026

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Most startup advice is built around venture capital, hypergrowth, and unicorn exits. ProfitLed is for the rest of us. Hosted by Melissa Kwan, 3x bootstrapped founder and CEO of eWebinar, ProfitLed explores what it's really like to build a company on your own terms, without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Season Three goes beyond strategy as we explore the intersection of Passion, Profit, and Purpose and what happens when founders evolve and come into financial success.If you're building something real, this one's for you. *Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com * *Brought to you by eWebinar.com**

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58 recent

November 11, 202654 min

$36M Bootstrapped, Rejected by YC | Rebecca Shostak, S3E14

Rebecca Shostak grew up in Silicon Valley, where her friends’ dads landed on the cover of Forbes and her own father had an IPO. When she was 14, a magazine asked her what she wanted to do when she grew up and she said she wanted her own tech company. Twenty years later she has one. Flodesk is at over $36 million in ARR, bootstrapped, after being rejected by YC. In this episode, Rebecca and I get into what it does to you when a definition of success is painted for you before you’re old enough to drive. We talk about the advice her father gave her instead of teaching her to parallel park, why a profitable business doing $500K a year wasn’t enough, and the years she spent waiting for somebody else to build the idea sitting in her notebook before she decided to do it herself. She walks through what happened when one email from a friend turned into 50 trials in an hour and then hundreds a day, with no support team and a product full of bugs. We get into what she had to learn on the fly when a designer who liked working alone suddenly became responsible for a hundred people, how anxiety she’s carried her whole life showed up at work, and what finally helped. At the end, I asked her what it feels like now that she’s “made it”. Tune in to find out her answer. If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like for a founder to grow up in Silicon Valley, this one’s for you. _______ (01:13) Growing up in Silicon Valley (04:00) On a magazine cover at 14 (07:09) Her dad's one warning (09:49) Why $500K wasn't enough (13:25) The barrier that felt insurmountable (17:37) Pooling their own money (19:58) Why Y Combinator said no (25:41) One email, 50 trials (27:16) The footer that went viral (29:20) 500 support tickets a day (29:54) Never chasing profitability (32:07) "She's a little crazy" (33:42) The moment in the shower (35:49) The hardest part right now (41:29) What she had to learn (42:15) Anxiety and leading 100 people (43:35) Calming her nervous system (46:52) The horse barn, her sanctuary (49:14) Does she feel she's made it (52:25) $200 million and the feeling Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

October 21, 202639 min

Bootstrapped to $5M with 17,000 Paying Customers | Marie Martens, S3E13

Marie Martens and her partner Filip bootstrapped Tally from zero to $5M ARR with a team of 10. They have 17,000 paying customers with over 2M free users, Not one dollar of outside capital. Originally, they were on their way to Bali to chase the digital nomad life and launch a travel startup when the world shut down in early 2020. They got as far as Bangkok, flew home 8 days later, lost their customers, and built Tally instead. In this episode, Marie and I get into what happens when you build a company on your own terms. We talk about the milestone she celebrated most, which was far smaller than you’d think, the 3 years her and Filip personally answered every support message until they had to stop for their own mental health. Why she kept saying no to investors while wondering if that meant she wasn’t ambitious enough, and how her relationship with money changed once there was finally enough of it. We also get into the deals she turns down on purpose, why she thinks being small is her biggest advantage, and what she’s building towards now that she’s already successful by any traditional measure. If you’ve ever wanted a business that answers to nobody, this one’s for you. _______ (01:18) What success looked like in corporate (03:08) The Mexico beach digital nomad dream (04:26) Stranded in Bangkok, home in eight days (09:29) Ten thousand MRR was the whole dream (09:51) The fancy dinner where they made it (10:32) Three years answering every support message (11:47) Closing the Slack for their mental health (14:15) Why saying no to investors felt weird (18:45) They never paid themselves big salaries (19:59) When the exit question stopped mattering (20:24) The example she wants to set (23:01) Not a good mom or a good founder (23:44) Morning shifts, evening shifts, structured days (24:23) Optionality means no board calling the shots (27:16) Saying no to governments and big corporates (29:19) What she pays for to buy back time (30:54) Being small is the biggest superpower (33:18) Why fully remote didn’t work out (36:14) Building a company, not a product (37:46) How she defines success today Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

October 7, 2026Episode 1248 min

Bootstrapped to $3M After 20 Startup Attempts | Luliia Shnai, S3E12

Iuliia Shnai and cofounder/husband, Marc Seitz, bootstrapped Papermark to $3 million in ARR in 28 months, with a team of two. Three years before that, she was making $2 an hour and posting publicly to ask strangers whether she should keep going. In this episode, Iuliia and I get into the years before any of it worked. A funded company that died after three pivots, a team of ten she let go one person at a time, and more than twenty attempts at building something that stuck. We also get into the tweet that forced Papermark into existence over a single weekend, how they run a $3M company with two people and a few agencies, and why she still thinks plenty of founders should raise venture capital even though she never will again. This is a conversation about what it takes to keep going when nothing is working, and what happens to you when it finally does. ________ (01:04) What success looked like during her PhD (02:10) The vending machine and her father's condition (03:45) Why she walked away from academia (05:38) Living on $1,500 a month for years (07:40) "I suck at raising money" (07:54) Why confidence decides who gets funded (10:44) Raising money after she stopped caring (11:32) Asked for 30% for $300K (14:08) Letting go of a team of ten (15:55) Why she never took a break (17:22) Ten products in a single year (18:50) Two weeks of work, ten likes (23:19) What kept her going through it (25:01) The $2 an hour post (26:18) The tweet that forced Papermark out (28:53) What it feels like when something works (30:03) No line between work and home (31:44) Running $3M with two people (33:46) You never stop living like before (37:05) What drives her now versus then (41:09) The next milestone, and getting there (43:59) "Success doesn't interest me anymore" Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

September 23, 2026Episode 1151 min

$60M Exit, 5 Years, Complete Burn Out | Xaver Lehmann, S3E11

Xaver Lehmann co-founded e-bot7 from a university dorm after seeing a Facebook post about chatbots on a train ride home from King's Day in Amsterdam. Five years later, the company had 130 employees, five European offices, and a $60 million acquisition offer from a Nasdaq company. He was 28. From the outside, it was the whole checklist. In this episode, Xaver and I get into what it was like building with investor money as a first-time founder, the clauses in VC contracts nobody warns you about, and why he walked away from a $25 million Series B to chase the acquisition with only weeks of cash left. We talk about the moment the deal fell apart, why he and his cofounder declined the revised terms anyway, and how the buyer came back on a Saturday and restored the original offer. Then we get into what happened after the money landed: months of depression so deep he couldn't even drive, two years working for the company that acquired him while completely burnt out, and being asked to fire 85 of his own people when the acquirer's stock collapsed. We also talk about his relationship with money as he came into financial success and what he's building now with The Honest Founder. If you've ever thought hitting a number would be the solution to all your problems, this one's for you. ______ (01:23) How he defined success as a kid (05:53) A Facebook post on a train that started a $60M company (08:23) Cold-emailing corporates with no product, no website, no name (10:19) Forbes 30 Under 30, 130 employees, but did any of it land? (13:14) What building with VC money is actually like (15:42) Would he raise from VCs again? (17:08) Walking away from a $25M Series B to chase an acquisition (19:36) Declining the revised deal with weeks of cash left (22:54) Why he wanted to sell (24:47) The buyer came back on a Saturday (27:50) What having money actually felt like vs. the fantasy (28:44) Not checking prices for the first time in his life (30:19) Showing up burnt out for a company that wasn't his anymore (34:00) Every Slack message felt like the end of the world (37:11) Purpose then vs. purpose now (39:42) Investing, coaching, and The Honest Founder (41:23) Would he build again? (45:58) What he'd tell founders chasing the dream he lived Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

September 9, 2026Episode 1054 min

Living the Dream at $35M ARR, 32 people | Adam Robinson, S3E10

Adam Robinson spent a decade on Wall Street trading credit default swaps, then walked away to build a company out of his own apartment. Today he runs a $35 million business with 32 people and lives in Aspen with his family. Getting there was no easy feat. In this episode, Adam and I go back in time to where he first learned what success looked like watching a neighborhood orthopedic surgeon to how his father, an oil trader, shaped what he expected from work-life. We talk about brute-forcing his first company into revenue by running a call center out of his own apartment, the two in-person mass layoffs he had to deliver years apart, and the identity crisis that hit after he left Wall Street, one he describes as the closest he's come to depression. We trace how his relationship with money changed over time, from the trading floor's need to always make more, to a point today where he says he's no longer attached to any number at all. Adam opens up about what it felt like the day his first company sold, why it didn't feel like real success at the time, how Retention.com was born as a result, and what he's building now with his fourth company, MoltSets. This is a conversation about what happens on the inside as a founder finally makes real money and starts living the dream. If you've ever wondered what happens after you make it, this one's for you. _______ (01:38) The neighborhood doctor who defined success (04:18) The phrase that changed how he saw work (07:19) Talking his way into Lehman Brothers (10:22) Watching his roommates build Vimeo (11:50) Why he finally left finance behind (23:39) Why the first seven years were terrible (25:30) Running a boiler room from his apartment (26:17) The loophole that built his first company (27:52) Brute forcing his way to revenue (30:56) The layoff he still calls the worst (32:29) How Retention.com was actually born (34:41) Was selling Robly his first real success? (35:37) $35 million ARR with 32 people (36:44) How his relationship with money began (37:41) The identity crisis he calls indescribable (39:41) When money stopped being the point (41:35) No longer attached to a number (42:00) Moving to Aspen and living without lack (46:51) Why he's starting a fourth company (52:20) How he defines success today Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

August 26, 2026Episode 949 min

€4M ARR to Surfpreneur in Costa Rica | Ilias Contreas, S3E9

Ilias Contreas bootstrapped Mixology Academy from a garage in Rome into the leading bartending training school in Italy. €4 million in annual revenue, 10,000 students, half the Italian market. Then he moved to Costa Rica, kept the business growing at startup speed from 10,000 kilometers away, and by every external measure was living the dream. And then one morning he opened his email and found a letter. After 18 years, he had lost control of the company he founded. In this episode, Ilias and I go into what it actually feels like to build a life you designed and then discover the thing that funds it is no longer yours to decide on. We talk about the 100-hour weeks in the beginning and what was really driving him back then, why he chose Costa Rica for a month and never left, the stimuli he was missing while the business was growing 43% a year without him in the building, and why after the shock of the lockout his dominant feeling was relief. We also get into how his sense of purpose shifted from being the face of an industry to being useful without being indispensable, why he started building again within six months even though he didn't need to, and what he's chasing now that money is no longer the goal. If you've ever built the dream and wondered what comes after because something was missing, this one's for you. _______ (01:35) The son of a doctor who wanted to be a writer (03:06) Why he went to London at 20 (05:37) His first 18 minutes behind a bar (07:04) The 100-hour weeks he doesn't wish on anyone (10:32) Working 24 hours straight without knowing why (14:28) The garage where Mixology Academy started (17:34) Why entrepreneurs aren't heroes in Italy (19:53) The moment he burned out (20:23) One month in Costa Rica, and never the same (26:08) Eight days after moving, the pandemic hit (27:41) Turning a physical school into a virtual one overnight (30:24) What €4M did to how he saw himself (31:03) Ragione sociale: what a company owes the community (34:00) The stimuli he was missing while living the dream (36:42) When the purpose stopped matching the work (38:12) The morning he couldn't log in (41:04) Why he was relieved before he was angry (42:14) Selling his shares, and starting over in six months (45:10) What he's chasing now that money isn't the goal (47:38) The one thing he would do differently Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

August 12, 2026Episode 841 min

Zero to $150M Exit at 29 | Matt Watson, S3E8

Matt Watson grew up in a trailer park in Oklahoma and worked flea markets with his dad from the age of five. At 22, he founded VinSolutions, a CRM for car dealerships. Eight years later, he sold it to AutoTrader for $150 million. He was 29 and the largest shareholder. Then he kept building. Stackify. At Capacity. And now Full Scale, a 350-person software company he chose to keep instead of sell. In this episode, Matt and I go deep on what actually happens after you go from nothing to generational wealth in your 20s. We talk about how the day the $150 million wire hit felt like, what surprised him most about having that kind of money, why more money more problems is absolutely the case, and why he started Stackify two months after his exit even though he could have stopped. We also get into the hard lessons he learned as a solo CEO in his 30s, why he's simplifying his life at 45 after buying Ferraris and part of a private jet, and what he'd tell someone who thinks money is the answer to everything hard in their life. This is a conversation about what happens after you make it. If you've ever wondered what's on the other side of the number you're chasing, this one's for you. ___________ (01:19) Trailer park to flea markets at 5 years old (03:37) Did he ever dream big (04:57) When it felt like a real business (07:45) Selling for $150 million at 29 (07:59) Off the rollercoaster (08:46) Why the exit made life worse (11:32) What surprised him about money (12:28) Why friends stop inviting you over (13:03) Starting again two months later (13:51) Solo CEO, hard lessons (15:36) Being his own VC (16:42) Diagnosing ADHD at 40 (20:02) His most important company (23:27) Startups are brain damage (28:21) Ferraris, a jet, letting go (30:03) The key to happiness Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

July 29, 2026Episode 757 min

18 years 6 months and 18 days to Exit | Alejandro Perez, S3E7

Alejandro Pérez bootstrapped Komet Sales, a cloud-based ERP and e-commerce platform for the floral industry, from his parents' house to a successful private equity exit, 18 years, 6 months, and 18 days later. No VC, no hype, no shortcuts. Just a guy who fell in love with an "unsexy industry" and built something real by creating value. In this episode, Alejandro and I go deep on what it takes to build a business the right way and walk away from it without losing yourself in the process. We talk about the six years he spent running an agency making no money, chasing money, before realizing money was the wrong goal. We get into the years bootstrapping Komet, the moment an acquirer told him his company was undervalued because he wasn't paying himself a real salary, and why he hired a banker for the sale when he didn't need to. We also talk about how he handed over his CEO title to an outside operator without feeling attached, why he put the majority of his exit into Bitcoin, and how two heart attacks reshaped his relationship with time and success. Alejandro has a pure abundance mindset. He's the most positive person I've ever met, and by the end of the conversation, you'll understand where that comes from. This is a conversation about building something quietly, selling it well, and staying unshaken no matter what happens. If you've ever wondered what a clean, grounded founder journey actually looks like, this one's for you. _______ (01:31) How he priced his classmates' papers at 14 (06:29) At 21, he just wanted to build, not monetize (07:35) Six years of chasing money before the reframe (08:35) How Komet Sales almost got named after a cleanser (15:00) Starting Komet after his divorce, at his parents' house (19:48) How long it took to find product-market fit (22:14) The acquirer call that changed how he paid himself (25:07) The dream number he never expected to get (27:04) The Vistage moment that changed how he saw his company (31:36) Deciding to sell during a mushroom trip in the Amazon (35:14) Why he hired a banker instead of selling directly (38:00) 18 years, 6 months, 18 days to sell (38:58) The Sunday test for loving your job (39:46) Life-changing money, then straight into Bitcoin (42:11) Why an abundance mindset made him more money (46:06) A year traveling the world with his son (48:22) The Bitcoin inheritance platform he's building next (50:38) Building for fun vs building to make payroll (53:04) The CEO lab coat and letting go of identity (54:44) Two heart attacks, converted into rocket fuel Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

July 15, 2026Episode 657 min

Two Life Changing Exits in 14 Months | Peter Hwang, S3E6

Peter Hwang spent 28 years building six companies across six completely different industries. He survived the 2008 financial crisis, which wiped out a near-IPO a month before closing and left him with $3M in debt and a wife six months pregnant with their third child. He rebuilt from that. Then built again. In 2018 and 2019, two of his companies sold within 14 months of each other, an 8-figure and a 9-figure exit. He was 45. Technically retired, but then everything stopped. In this episode, Peter and I get into what was driving him through 28 years of building, the fear, the proving, the scarcity model he carried his whole life without naming it. We talk about what it felt like when the emails stopped and the urgency disappeared, why achieving everything he worked for left him feeling lonely and depressed, and how he eventually found his way back to building for a completely different reason. We also get into what separates founders who make it from those who get stuck, how his passion and purpose shifted across three distinct chapters of his life, and what his dad said when Peter finally gave him the one thing he actually wanted. This is a conversation about what happens when the outcome arrives and it doesn't feel the way you thought it would. If you've ever felt like you were chasing an external feeling of success and needed to rediscover your internal purpose, this one's for you. _______ (01:25) Growing up watching his parents' Baskin-Robbins (04:47) Why he knew he had to work for himself (06:07) What actually drove his early ambition (07:42) Starting Extreme Pita and his first exit at 24 (10:43) Why he keeps building in completely different industries (12:53) Enwise: the near-IPO that collapsed in 2008 (15:03) The email that changed everything (16:22) Who showed up when things fell apart (18:28) What Cindy said when he told her (20:32) What kept him going through two years of rebuilding (23:37) How Enwise led directly to Globalfaces (24:09) Running two companies simultaneously for seven years (32:01) What separates founders who make it from those who get stuck (37:07) Two exits in 14 months and the arrival fallacy (39:53) From 100 emails a day to three (41:52) How he found his way back to purpose (45:07) How passion and purpose shifted across three chapters (46:18) What his dad actually wanted (47:40) How building businesses built him as a person (53:47) What he hopes his kids take from watching him Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.

June 24, 2026Episode 539 min

3 People, $4.6m Revenue, $60m Exit | Esben Friis-Jensen, S3E5

Esben Friis-Jensen spent seven years building Cobalt, a VC-backed cybersecurity company with four co-founders, $37 million raised, and over 200 employees. He left without a financial outcome. Then he built Userflow, a no-code onboarding tool, as the complete opposite: bootstrapped, three people, no meetings, no VC. It grew to $4.6 million in revenue and sold in a deal reported to be over $60 million. In this episode, Esben and I get into what those years at Cobalt taught him about the relationship between effort and reward, why he and his co-founder chose to pay themselves first instead of reinvesting everything back into the company, and how he kept his ambition alive when there was no financial pressure to keep going. We also talk about what happened when the wire hit the bank, why it didn't change his life as much as you'd think, and what life looks like now that he's retired in his early 40s with two kids, no obligations, and no plans (yet) to start another company. This is a conversation about designing a business around the life you want instead of the other way around, and what happens when you finally get there. _______ (01:17) "I wanted to be the CEO of a large company" (05:16) "I didn't even know that world existed" (07:01) What 200 employees actually felt like (08:35) "You can build this amazing company and get very little" (10:56) Building the complete opposite of Cobalt (14:24) From wanting to run Accenture to a two-person company (14:49) Where $1.5 million per employee actually went (20:58) What kept them going with no financial pressure (22:16) Saying no to sales calls and hiding the demo button (24:11) "Were there moments it almost didn't work?" (27:24) Why most acquisition offers went straight to trash (29:10) Handing over a product he dreamed about every day (30:31) When the wire hit the bank (31:55) "I don't need to work to be happy" (36:12) Financial freedom as a sub-goal, not the end (38:03) Same definition of success, completely different path Show notes: Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm . Connect with our host: Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly. Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to ' your founder next door ', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places. Follow @themelissakwan on Instagram and YouTube where she shares short videos of business advice and other truth-bomb sound bites. This podcast was brought to you by eWebinar: Find out how you can turn pre-recorded videos into interactive experiences with chat so you can run your demos, onboarding calls, and training sessions on autopilot, 24/7, without being there. Hop into a demo at eWebinar.com , no salesperson required.