Profit First for Lawyers

Hosted by Team RJon | RJon Robins

Business Management Education

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Jun 2026

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The Profit First for Lawyers podcast is the companion show to the book, Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The goal of the book and podcast are to empower lawyers with practical and actionable information to help them improve their lives by putting their family, their firm, and their Profits First.

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June 16, 2026Episode 9041 min

You Are Here: Know Your Starting Point

“Happiness is not accounted for in Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. Neither is peace of mind, propensity for burnout, or the quality of your life.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers Before you can build a roadmap for the future, you need to know where you are today. Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy & Strategy Expert from How To Manage a Small Law Firm, joins us to discuss understanding your starting point. Whether your goal is greater profitability, more time with family, or long-term financial security, meaningful progress begins with an honest assessment of your current reality. Drawing from core financial literacy concepts found in Profit First for Lawyers, Evelyn explains why financial reports are not simply accounting documents. She introduces the seven key financial reports and explains how they help law firm owners understand where they are today so they can make better decisions about where they want to go. Defining Success on Your Own Terms One of the central themes of this episode is that success is personal. For some law firm owners, success may mean growing a multi-million-dollar firm. For others, it may mean working fewer hours, spending more time with family, or creating greater flexibility in their lives. Before measuring progress, law firm owners must first define what success looks like for them. Once that destination is clear, financial reports can help answer an important question: Are you currently on the path that will get you there? Key Takeaways Financial reports provide visibility into the health of your business Success should be defined by your goals, not someone else’s expectations Total Owner Benefit offers a more complete picture of financial success Financial literacy creates confidence and clarity in decision-making Knowing where you are today is the first step toward reaching your goals Financial literacy is not an end goal. It is a tool that helps law firm owners make better decisions. If you are ready to take action on the concepts discussed in this episode, start here: Action Steps Define what success looks like for you and your family. Review your current financial reports to understand where you are today. Identify the destination you are trying to reach. Determine which financial metrics will help you track progress toward your goals. Commit to building a regular habit of reviewing your numbers. This is not a one-time set-it-and-forget-it exercise. The destination you choose today may need to change as your business and personal goals evolve. That’s why it is important to keep your hands on the steering wheel. While this may seem challenging at first, regular monitoring keeps you in tune with the direction your business is headed, allowing you to adjust for road hazards and stay on course. Mentioned Profit Leak Assessment Calculating Your Total Owner Benefits episode Seven Key Financial Reports (Chapters 13-15 of Profit First for Lawyers) Bookkeeping That Does Not Suck Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

June 11, 2026Episode 8918 min

Calculating Your Total Owner Benefits

“There are three ways you’re going to get compensated from your business. One is W-2 Salary. Two is K-1 distributions. Three is other benefits.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers How profitable is your law firm? The answer might be more complicated than what shows up on your P&L statement. In this third part of our seven-part financial literacy series, we revisit a topic from season one: Total Owner Benefits. A topic of such importance that it has an entire chapter devoted to it. Listen in as RJon takes a law firm owner through an exercise to calculate the true value they are receiving from their firm. Beyond the Bottom Line RJon poses a powerful question: Would you rather own Firm A (making $1M but working 70-hour weeks doing work you hate with no vacations) or Firm B (making $500K working 50 hours doing meaningful work with real time off?) Your banker might say Firm A is more profitable, but which would contribute to your family’s happiness more? The Real Math In the 2019 workshop, RJon shows how a business that appears to have a 20% profit margin actually delivers 38% in Total Owner Benefits when you account for all three components (W-2 Salary + K-1 distributions + Other benefits). The difference is dramatic and changes everything about how you evaluate your firm’s true profitability. Understanding Total Owner Benefits reveals the value your business is actually providing you with. Action Steps Follow along with your numbers during the exercise to discover your Total Owner Benefits Then ask yourself: What is my law firm actually giving back to my life? If you don’t like the answer, pick one small thing to change Next Time: Join us for Part 4 where RJon walks law firm owners through normalized salary calculations. This is an eye-opening episode you won’t want to miss. So be sure to subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast. Resources Mentioned Financial Literacy Series: Part 1 – You’re Not Bad with Numbers Part 2: Understanding the Stages of a Law Firm’s Growth Chapter 9: Total Owner Benefits (pages 73-87 in the Profit First for Lawyers book) Season 1: Total Owner Benefits episode Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

June 9, 2026Episode 8850 min

A/R: It’s REALLY Worse Than You Think

“Accounts receivables are so much worse for a law firm than most lawyers understand or appreciate. So much worse.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers In this episode, How To Manage a Small Law Firm CFO and CEO advisor, Etienne Hardre expands upon RJon’s clip from Chapter 14 about the devastating mathematics behind accounts receivable. The Devastating Mathematics Here is what really happens when Client A doesn’t pay their bill. You’ve already spent the money on marketing, sales, production, and overhead to serve them. When their bill goes unpaid, they’re not just skipping the 33% profit, they’re stiffing you on the entire bill. So what happens next? Now you need to cover marketing, sales, production, and overhead for Clients B, C, and D before you begin to see your first profit from working with all four clients. Here’s the breakdown for a theoretical $10,000 case/matter with a 33% profit: Client A did not pay their bill Clients B did pay their bill and their 33% profit goes to cover the costs you already spent on Client A Client C also paid their bill and their 33% profit covers the overhead from Client A Client D’s profit finally covers the profit you should have made from Client A. After four clients you’ve finally recovered what one client should have originally provided. This illustration makes is easy to see how Accounts Receivable is the silent profit killer that is crushing law firms nationwide. Is it any wonder that RJon put A/R in the Profit First for Lawyers book twice? Why Law Firms Struggle with A/R Most law firm owners hate looking at their aging A/R reports. Some have six-figures of A/R outstanding and are challenged to ask to be paid for the completed work. The mindset issue around asking for money compounds the problem. The fact is that A/R and Profit First work against each other. The more money trapped in A/R, the harder it becomes to take profits first. To combat the mindset issues, start implementing Profit First even with 1%. The urgency will force you to address your law firm’s accounts receivables. Take Action on Your A/R So, what’s a law firm owner with A/R to do? Stop the bleeding. Start with preventing new A/R from forming. Screen clients for ability to pay during marketing. Use retainer policies and implement “red rubber band” systems that stop work when payments are due. Adopt more frequent billing to top up retainers. Tackle existing A/R by starting with recent accounts receivables, be flexible with payment plans and discounts. Remember: Get creative because any A/R you collect is 100% profit since you’ve already paid all the associated costs. Your Action Steps: Implement a red rubber band policy to prevent new A/R Pull your A/R aging report and face reality Start collecting immediately, be creative when necessary Mentioned: Chapter 14 – Profit First for Lawyers book Podcast episode – A/R: The Profit-Eating Machine with Ed Gegan Connect Connect with Etienne Hardre at How To Manage a Small Law Firm by emailing help@howtomanage.com Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

June 4, 2026Episode 8729 min

Understanding the Stages of a Law Firm’s Growth

“If we can develop good habits for you when your business is still in the first stage of growth, you’re going to bring those good habits with you into business maturity.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers A growing business requires a growing owner. During a Q&A session in part two of our seven-part series, RJon explains why financial literacy does not carry the same weight at every stage of growth. In the earliest stages, the owner’s job is to “hustle, market, and sell.” New benchmarks require the owner to develop new skills, learn to hire, delegate, and build team productivity. Then as the business becomes more complex, financial literacy, systems, metrics, and accountability become increasingly important. The lesson is not simply that law firms grow in stages. It is that the owner must gain new skills and maturity to grow with the firm. Financial Literacy in Context Financial literacy is not equally important at every stage of growth. A growing business requires the owner to keep learning, adapting, and leading differently. Action Steps Identify which stage of growth best describes your firm today. Determine the most important priorities for that stage. Review the financial reports currently available. Commit to building one financial habit that will strengthen your understanding of the business over time. The goal is not to master every financial concept at once. The goal is to begin building the habits that will support your next stage of growth. Mentioned Part One: You’re Not Bad With Numbers Chapters 12-15 of Profit First for Lawyers The Seven Stages of Law Firm Growth Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

June 2, 2026Episode 8629 min

Regaining Time

“We are going to break away from the dictionary’s limited definition of profit and profitable, which only account for financial profits.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers For many law firm owners, profitability is measured by one thing: money. But what if profit gives you something even more valuable? Time. In this episode, Michigan estate planning attorney Rose Coonen shares how implementing Profit First accounting principles transformed not only her firm’s finances, but also how she spends her time, serves her clients, and shows up for her family. Redefining Profit RJon challenges the traditional definition of profit and introduces a broader perspective: profit can be personal and professional as well as financial. For Rose, that shift in understanding changed everything. Since implementing Profit First three years ago, she has built a strong financial foundation, gained the freedom to stop working with toxic clients, become more present with the families she serves, and grow a law firm that supports the life she wants to live. Today, her law firm is a family affair with her husband and daughter working alongside her as the business continues to grow and serve her community. What started as a desire for greater financial stability ultimately became a way to regain control of her time. Key Takeaways Profit is about more than money Financial profit creates personal and professional opportunities Regaining your time starts with building a stronger financial foundation A profitable law firm gives you the choice of working with your ideal clients Growth allows for creative ideas to serve more clients, support more team members, and make a greater impact in your community. Sometimes the most meaningful result isn’t found on a financial statement. It is the ability to spend more time with family, build a business that aligns with your values, and make a greater impact in your community. Because the most valuable form of profit may be time itself Mentioned Plan Like You Won’t Be Here Tomorrow Connect and Engage Connect directly with Rose Coonen: https://coonen-law.com Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

May 28, 2026Episode 8513 min

You’re Not Bad With Numbers

“I want to expose you to a really cool world of financial literacy to empower you to be better, more confident business owners.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers If financial reports, spreadsheets, or business metrics have ever made you want to tune out, this episode is for you. In part one of a seven-part series on financial controls, RJon explains why financial literacy is not about becoming an accountant or learning advanced math. It’s about learning to recognize the story your numbers are already telling you about your business. Featuring clips of RJon from a 2019 financial literacy workshop, this episode introduces foundational concepts that would later appear in Profit First for Lawyers. As the first installment in a seven-part series, it explores how learning the language of business and finance can change the way law firm owners see and understand their firms. With greater financial literacy comes the ability to recognize patterns, opportunities, and warning signs that may have previously gone unnoticed. The goal is not perfection. The goal is confidence, awareness, and the ability to make better business decisions over time. Key Takeaways Financial literacy is learnable. You do not need to become an accountant to become a stronger business owner. Learning financial concepts changes how you see your business. Awareness creates more confident decision-making. Mentioned: This episode pairs especially well with Chapter 10: Is It Overhead or Overhead? from Profit First for Lawyers, where RJon explains how financial literacy changes the way law firm owners understand and manage their business. RJon Robins – From The Vault podcast: This podcast is for law firm owners and delivers expanded lessons in addition to the core teachings which are found in Profit First for Lawyers. Frequency illusion aka Baader-Meinhof phenomenon – Wikipedia definition Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

May 26, 2026Episode 8537 min

Getting Rid of Guessing

“Your law firm is a business. Your business is supposed to work for you.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers For many law firm owners, profitability seems uncertain. Maybe there will be money left over at the end of the year. Maybe there won’t be. For years, that was exactly how Matt Loker approached business ownership. That changed when he implemented Profit First accounting principles. By building stronger systems, he replaced guessing with structure, clarity, and intentional growth. In this episode, Matt shares how shifting from reactive decision-making to measurable systems transformed both his law firm and his family life. What Business Owners and Farmers Have In Common Drawing inspiration from one of RJon’s most memorable analogies, Matt explains why so many law firm owners unintentionally build businesses that depend entirely on them. But just like a farmer cannot successfully operate an entire farm alone, law firm owners cannot sustainably grow a business without systems, structure, and a strong team. As Matt stopped guessing about profits, his law firm evolved from a solo practice into a business that is growing nationally. His law firm is now capable of operating successfully even when he is away for extended periods of time. This has given him the ability to create experiences and opportunities for his family that once felt out of reach. From Guessing to Predictability By creating structure around profitability, distributions, systems, and operational planning, Matt was able to: Make more objective business decisions Grow his team intentionally Increase owner benefit Create more stability inside the business The result was not just a larger seven-figure firm, but a more predictable and sustainable one. Mentioned: Systems & Processes Template How To Mange a Small Law Firm Connect Connect directly with Matt Loker: https://www.loker.law Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

May 21, 2026Episode 8314 min

Think Like a Business Owner, Not Like a Lawyer

“The biggest challenge we have in helping someone go from zero to seven figures… is that they don’t believe it’s possible.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers Why do brilliant lawyers struggle to build profitable businesses? That’s a question you’ll find the answer to in this episode where RJon explains the fundamental mindset shift that separates struggling attorneys from successful business owners. He does this by illustrating just how simple a business is to run with the 7 Main Parts of Every Successful Law Firm: Marketing Sales Production People Physical Plant Financial Controls (Money & Metrics) You (Owner’s Goals) In season one, we did an entire series on the 7 Main Parts. See links in the Resources Mentioned section to access those episodes directly. Additional context of this framework can be read in Chapter 5 of the Profit First for Lawyers book. The Identity Challenge RJon begins with a radical challenge: stop calling yourself a lawyer. Start saying, “I’m a business owner who sells legal services.” This isn’t just semantics. It’s the foundation for everything that follows. Lawyers who identify as business owners think differently, plan differently, and execute differently. The challenge? Self-sabotage. Overcomplicating the process. Not believing YOU can do it. The Business Owner Mindset Everyone in your ecosystem wants profit: your family, your clients, and you. Business owners understand this. They think in terms of return on investment. They have a business plan they actively use that they measure their business against. When metrics scream: ‘Hire someone! Expand! Invest!’ they listen and take action. Your Action Steps: Start identifying as a business owner who sells legal services Write a simple business plan using the seven-part framework Stop overcomplicating what should be straightforward systems Believe rapid growth is possible for you If your business plan reads like a legal treatise, you’re thinking like a lawyer, not a business owner. Great business plans are simple, readable, and actionable. Resources mentioned: Chapter 5: The Seven Main Parts of Every Successful Law Firm Season 1 Series on the Seven Main Parts: 1. Marketing 2. Sales 3. Production 4. People 5. Physical Plant 6. Money & Metrics (Financial Controls) 7. YOU Connect Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

May 19, 2026Episode 8242 min

Dream Bigger with Courage and Math

“I want you to feel empowered by the knowledge that GAAP is not the only way to manage a small law firm to profitability.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers In this episode, Pietro Canestrelli shares how following Profit First accounting principles helped transform not just his law firm’s profitability, but the way he thinks about ownership, decision-making, hiring, and growth. Drawing from his experience as both a longtime tax attorney and as the owner of a rapidly growing law firm, Pietro explains why GAAP accounting was never designed to help small law firms maximize profitability and why business owners must become comfortable looking at their numbers regularly. Regular listeners know that RJon frequently speaks about GAAP and that there is an entire chapter titled, “Why Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) Are Not Meant For You” (Chapter 8) in Profit First for Lawyers. Well worth a second or third read for those who need a refresher. Courage and Math Pietro introduces a phrase that he says law firm owners need in order to build a profitable business: courage and math. The courage to face reality. The math to make objective decisions. The Importance of Looking at Your Numbers One of the most practical lessons in this episode is the importance of reviewing business metrics consistently, especially when the numbers are uncomfortable. By regularly reviewing data like leads, production, consultations, and conversion rates, he was able to identify operational issues quickly and make adjustments before larger problems developed. Because avoiding financial reality does not prevent the consequences. Connect Connect directly with Pietro Canestrelli: https://ietaxattorney.com/pietro-canestrelli Learn more about America’s Tax Defender book by Pietro Cannestrelli Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

May 14, 2026Episode 8112 min

Law Firm Owners: Who Is Serving Whom?

“The firm is supposed to serve you. You are not supposed to live in service to the firm.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers Is your law firm improving your life, or consuming it? This episode explores one of the most important mindset shifts a law firm owner can make: your business is supposed to support your life, not the other way around. In clips from a 2021 Profit First for Lawyers livestream and the October 2023 Live Quarterly Meeting, RJon challenges law firm owners to rethink their relationship with their firms. Using a colorful analogy comparing a law firm to both a baby and a mule, he illustrates a critical distinction that can change how law firm owners approach business ownership. Exercise: 7 Parts of Every Successful (and Unsuccessful) Law Firm RJon encourages law firm owners to evaluate the seven core parts of their business to identify where the biggest operational gaps exist. The goal of this exercise is to be aware of key parts within your business that need the most attention. This isn’t about perfection. It is an opportunity to intentionally improve the weaker areas in your business. The 7 Parts exercise is outlined in more detail in the Profit First for Lawyers book. Resource: Business Plan Workbook The Business Plan Workbook resource is designed to help law firm owners evaluate the operational strengths and weaknesses inside their law firms. Download the Business Plan Workbook to begin building a business that supports your goals, your family, and your future. Key Takeaways Your law firm should serve your goals. Skill gaps and operational blind spots create unnecessary stress. Use the exercises and resources from this episode to identify where to begin. Low-performing areas of your business are opportunities for growth, not personal failures. Successful firms are built through intentional management, systems, and leadership. This episode may challenge law firm owners who think of their business as their baby. But ultimately, it’s meant to offer insight that can fundamentally shift how they lead, manage, and grow their firm. A healthy law firm should support the people it was designed to serve, including the owner. Connect Referenced in this episode:  How To Manage a Small Law Firm Waiting Room Business Plan Workbook Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast Watch episodes on YouTube Follow Profit First for Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today! https://youtu.be/28CUMZRhncQ