Episodes
22
Latest episode
Apr 2026
Language
EN-US
The socially phobic adult with avoidant personality and overly dependent behavior presents a complex and daunting therapeutic challenge. In fact, the mental health professions have been confounded by this clinical scenario. This podcast provides critical information for parents and concerned persons of adults who have had a long-term struggle or paralysis with launching. Launching refers to social, academic, career, relationship, and emotional pursuits. Jonathan Berent, L.C.S.W. has pioneered treatment for social and performance anxiety, having worked with thousands of patients since 1978. He is the author of "Beyond Shyness: How to Conquer Social Anxieties" (Simon & Schuster) and "Work Makes Me Nervous" (Wiley). Jonathan has extensive media experience including Oprah, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, Fox, The New York Times, Newsday, The Chicago Tribune, and The Boston Globe. His website is www.socialanxiety.com.
"Shirley" is the mother of a 35 year old with a masters degree in psychology who does not work. In this interview she describes her anguish and hope, and the insidious and complex developmental process by which her son learned social avoidance, paranoia, and over-dependence.
Lynn was told that her clingy, selectively mute (for 3 years) six-year-old daughter, would “grow out of it” by the family pediatrician, teachers, and other well intentioned professionals. The problem continued to worsen with time. “Sidney” would only talk to her parents and brother and a couple of children in school. In every other possible verbal interaction she would “shut down”. While the parents were looking for guidance from the school; the teachers did not know what to do, and were frustrated as they were not able to assess the student’s academic functioning due to the void of verbal performance. This interview highlights the power of corrective parenting for the child with selective mutism.
When I started my psychotherapy practice in 1978, I was doing biofeedback and psychotherapy for stress related disorders to empower patients to heal without medication or to get off medication. Forty-five years and over 60.000 clinical hours later I have discovered there are high performance strategies to incorporate pharmaceuticals into the treatment process. This discussion with Dr. Mathew Lorber MD is the first in a series of interviews, the purpose of which is to educate the listener on what can be a complex process.
“Talking in 5 Sessions” - Zachary did not talk to his mother. He talked only to father and sister. No other person. He was totally shut down. Dad described his son as his “little butterfly”. Mom said her son “broke the glass door” that trapped her son verbally. Typically, effective treatment requires hard and sustained work. Each family has their individual learning curve. This case was exceptional.
“We feel we gave birth to a whole new person”"Sophie" never talked in school until 4th grade. No one heard her voice besides parents, grand- parents, and sister. Mom said "we would do anything to set her free; nothing worked". Now it's "overwhelmingly positive". This interview highlights the reality that in most cases one to one counseling with a young child with selective mutism is unproductive. Think about it. The child has no initiative (motivation) for healing, and the therapist most often goes into enabling mode when the child is mute in session. (Of course there’s an exception to every rule). The Berent Treatment Method utilizes the leverage of the parents to nurture the child through the complex, insidious, and ingrained avoidance-dependence dynamic.
When considering treatment for social and performance anxiety thoughtful evaluation would say that a model adapted to the specific needs of this specific anxiety is productive rather than trying to fit the condition into rigid restrictive existing models; most noticeably the nonsensical promises and absurd research perpetuated by the CBT community. I want to be very clear. Behavior and cognition are very important variables to consider in treatment but if you miss the emotion-physiological connection you are playing the wrong game. A productive model is going to have several tools. Since 1978 one of the tools that I have integrated into therapy is the utilization of mind states. The objective of this podcast is to introduce you to each state.
Think of the last time someone tried to engage your child verbally and there was no response. As a loving parent you want to rescue your child from the stress of this kind of encounter. You probably experienced your own discomfort and anxiety, which typically results in the reflex of rescuing your child (and yourself) by talking or thinking for the child. The “freeze the moment” technique is employed to break the reflex of the child automatically thinking that rescuing will take place. With insight and courage, the mother of this 5 yr. old with selective mutism describes how she managed her own anxiety as a crucial component for non-enabling and healing.
“Mike”, a 26 yr. old ambitious entrepreneur describes his resolution of multiple psychological challenges. With dramatic insight he communicates the impact his special education experience had on his social anxiety and self- esteem. He originally “did not understand what was going on” regarding his panic and anxiety. Before treatment he believed “he was born this way” and there was nothing he could do about it!"
Mom describes how “Jessica” age 12 struggled with selective mutism since age 8. In addition, profound developmental and social challenges were present. “Jessica” developed a system of body language to replace her own voice. Teachers were unable to test for IQ or reading level. She totally shut down with her speech therapist. She was bullied! She took her rage out on Mom who was her “entertainment center”.
This is the perfect interview for people who think and wish that the young child will simply outgrow selective mutism. “Mike”, a 35-year old with SM and social anxiety describes his “avoidance of talking” because he thought “he had nothing to say”. He eventually learned this was not true as his belief and behavior were manifestations of obsessive compulsive disorder . Mike describes how the insidious nature of selective mutsim became a long term addiction to the avoidance of talking. While he was a B + student in high school he did not go to college because of his mutism. His social life was basically non-existent. He was depressed due to overwhelming social anxiety. The story has a happy ending.
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