The Outthinkers podcast is a growth strategy podcast hosted by Kaihan Krippendorff. Each week, Kaihan talks with forward-looking strategists and innovators that are challenging the status quo, leading the future of business, and shaping our world. Chief strategy officers and executives can learn more and join the Outthinker community at https://outthinkernetwork.com/.
Listen to episodes
60 recent
June 16, 202642 min
#169 — AI Is Doing the Junior Work. Who Becomes Your Next Senior Leader? | Carrol Chang
New on the Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Carrol Chang about why the unit of work is shifting from the full-time employee to the task itself — and what that means for every leader rethinking their workforce in the age of AI.During the conversation they unpack what happens when AI handles all the junior work today, and who develops the senior judgment your organisation will depend on tomorrow.Carrol Chang reflects on watching two of the biggest shifts in the history of work collide in real time at Andela, why the productivity dividend forces every leader to a strategic fork in the road, and why AI collapsing the cost of talent doesn't eliminate competitive advantage, it just moves it.The conversation covers:Why the unit of work is shifting from the full-time employee to the task — and what that means for how you hire, build teams, and plan headcountThe "birthrate problem": if AI absorbs all the junior work today, who develops the judgment and governance your organisation will need in five years?What remains as your true competitive advantage when AI commoditises both capacity and expertise — and why human judgment, EQ, and relationship-building are the last real moatAdditional Resources:Andela: andela.comCodeWars: codewars.comLHH: lhh.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrolchangThank you again to our sponsor, LHH. Thank you to our guest, Carrol Chang.Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
June 2, 202640 min
#168 — Why Good Companies Go Bad: Eric Ries
New on the Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Eric Ries — author of the landmark The Lean Startup — about his new book Incorruptible, and why the way we've run companies for the last fifty years may be fundamentally corrupt. Not in the dramatic, headline-grabbing sense, but in the older, quieter sense of the word: a slow corrosion of the bonds that make an organisation strong, trusted, and worth building in the first place. In this conversation they unpack how shareholder primacy — the idea that a company exists only to enrich its investors — took hold without a single vote ever being cast, and what it actually takes to build something that endures. Eric reflects on why this idea is far more recent and far more fragile than we assume, what the most enduring companies in the world have quietly been doing differently, and the practical mechanisms any founder or leader can use to protect a mission from the forces that will inevitably try to erode it. The conversation covers:Why shareholder primacy is a recent invention — and why the "citizens vs tourists" problem in corporate governance changes how you should think about who really owns a companyWhat "human flourishing" really means, why mission-driven companies aren't sacrificing financial performance, and how the best operators treat trustworthiness as an asset to bank rather than spendThe practical defences — mission guardians, multi-entity "constellations," and the paths of ethos and integrity — that leaders can use today to build a governance fortress, no revolution requiredAdditional Resources: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/Book: Incorruptible — https://www.incorruptible.co/ LHH: lhh.comThank you again to our sponsor, LHH.Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
May 19, 202645 min
#167 — Your Company's Biggest AI Advantage Is Already Sitting in Your Database: Scott Snyder
New on the Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Scott Snyder about why most companies are failing to get real value from AI — and why the problem has nothing to do with the technology.During the conversation they unpack why incumbents keep repeating the same mistakes across every major technology wave, and what it actually takes to move an organisation from experimentation to genuine transformation.Scott Snyder reflects on the pattern he’s watched play out across mobile, e-commerce, and now AI, why large companies consistently underestimate their own advantages, and how leaders can shift their people from fear and resistance to genuine excitement about working alongside AI.The conversation covers:• Why your business strategy has to come before your AI strategy — and how AI should amplify what you already do well, not replace the thinking behind it• How incumbents can use their hidden advantages — proprietary data, scale, and ecosystem access — to out-innovate startups rather than be disrupted by them• What it takes to move people through the mindset curve from openness to accountability, and why incentive design is the missing piece most organisations overlookAdditional Resources:Book: Your AI Life — https://yourai.life/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottsnyder5g/LHH: lhh.comThank you again to our sponsor, LHH. Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
May 5, 202638 min
#166 — Your Business Model Has an Expiry Date: Dr. Nadya Zhexembayeva
Dr. Nadya Zhexembayeva is a globally recognised reinvention strategist, four-time author, and founder of the Reinvention Academy. A former chaired professor at a business school in the Slovenian Alps, she coined the role of Chief Reinvention Officer — unifying strategy, innovation, and change management into a single connected discipline. She has worked with organisations across mining, telecom, financial services, and the public sector, including steering a London-listed mining and metals company through the largest industry crisis in modern history. Her weekly newsletter, Reinvention Weekly, reaches business leaders across the globe.Most companies know change is accelerating — but they're still operating as if it's temporary. The assumption that things will eventually "go back to normal" is quietly killing organisations that could otherwise survive. A handful of companies have built genuine reinvention capability and are riding waves of disruption ahead of their competitors. Most are still firefighting, waiting for certainty that will never come.In this episode, we explore why the business model playbook built in the 20th century is dangerously mismatched for today's environment — and what leaders need to think, build, and kill in order to stay viable.In this episode we cover:The concept of "metaruption" — why black swan events are now arriving in flocks, and what it means for long-term strategyWhy Reinvention 1.0 (the once-every-40-years big pivot) is no longer sufficient — and what Reinvention 2.0 looks like in practiceThe three interlocking disciplines — anticipate, design, and implement — and why most organisations are weakest at the firstWhy the shelf life of your decisions is shrinking, and how to build a system that accounts for itWhere to actually start a reinvention journey — including the "kill session" practice that reduces overload before adding anything newAdditional Resources:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/nadyazhexembayevaReinvention Academy: reinventionacademy.comNewsletter: Reinvention Weekly — subscribe at reinventionacademy.comThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
April 21, 202636 min
#165 — How AI Is Killing Traditional Market Research: Peter Weinberg
Peter Weinberg is the founder of Evidenza, an AI-powered synthetic research platform, and a former LinkedIn executive where he co-founded the B2B Institute. Over a decade at LinkedIn, Peter helped reframe how B2B brands think about growth — shifting the industry's focus from bottom-of-funnel conversion toward brand building, mental availability, and reaching buyers before they enter the market. His work draws heavily on the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute's frameworks, and he's collaborated with some of the world's largest B2B organisations on marketing strategy and segmentation.Most market research never gets done. It's too slow, too expensive, and the people you most need to reach — CFOs, in-house counsel, niche enterprise buyers — simply don't take surveys. So companies either skip research entirely or make decisions based on what the sales team heard from the three customers who called last week.Synthetic research changes that equation. By using AI to simulate statistically representative populations of real customer types, organisations can now get directionally accurate, quantitative customer intelligence in a fraction of the time and cost of traditional research. Peter's company, Evidenza, has validated this approach across dozens of markets and categories — consistently finding 80–95% alignment between synthetic and human survey responses.In this episode, we explore what that means for how companies understand customers, structure their innovation funnels, and rethink the long-standing political battle between marketing and sales over who really owns the voice of the customer.In this episode we cover:What synthetic research actually is — and why "lab-grown customers" may be more reliable than survey respondents clicking through for an Applebee's gift cardThe accuracy question: how closely AI-simulated responses match real human data, and what it means when they divergeHow synthetic research could reshape the innovation funnel — moving from testing 3 ideas a year to testing thousandsWhy the real opportunity isn't hyper-personalisation, but finding the mass-market commonalities that drive scaleThe adoption barrier that has nothing to do with AI scepticism: organisations that wouldn't act on good market research even if you handed it to themEpisode Timeline:00:00 — Highlight from today's episode00:34 — Introducing Peter + the topic of today's episode02:55 — If you really know me, you know that...03:45 — What's your definition of strategy?06:04 — Peter's decade at LinkedIn and the case for B2B brand building07:41 — The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: mental and physical availability10:24 — What is synthetic research?13:16 — Accuracy, speed, and cost: the three metrics that matter14:54 — When human surveys lie (and synthetic respondents don't)17:49 — Can you use synthetic research for internal adoption challenges?19:59 — How synthetic research widens the innovation funnel23:27 — Who owns the voice of the customer: marketing vs. sales26:50 — Micro-segmentation vs. mass marketing — which does AI actually favour?30:59 — Barriers to adoption: AI sceptics, soft rejectors, and market orientation33:48 — When AI outperforms humans with AI (the doctor study)35:57 — How to follow Peter and find EvidenzaAdditional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weinbergpeter/Website: evidenza.aiThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
April 7, 202637 min
#164 — How Coach Went From $6M to $5B Without Losing Its Soul
New on Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Lew Frankfort about how Coach scaled while building trust, durability, and emotional connection with customers. During the conversation they unpack what scaling really requires when growth threatens to dilute what made you successful in the first place. Lew Frankfort reflects on spotting Coach’s early cult following, why direct-to-customer channels became a strategic turning point, and how brands build trust, durability, and emotional connection at the same time while leaders balance creativity with operational discipline. The conversation covers:Why strategy is the bridge between vision and execution, and what it looks like in practice while scalingHow to build brand equity through trust, durability, and emotional connection without losing what makes the brand distinctiveHow leaders balance creativity and discipline, and what it takes to be an intrapreneur inside a larger organizationEpisode Timeline:00:00 Welcome and Sponsor00:44 Meet Lou Frankfort03:31 Family and Values06:05 Defining Strategy06:56 From Public Service09:19 Coach Cult Following12:34 Brand Equity Triangle16:20 Going Direct to Consumer19:10 Magic and Logic Leadership21:48 Becoming CEO at Coach26:17 Intrapreneur Mindset28:36 Designing for Growth32:25 Advice and ClosingAdditional Resources:Book: Bag Man (Lew Frankfort)LHH: https://www.lhh.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lew-frankfort/Thank you again to our sponsor, LHH. Thank you to our guest, Lew Frankfort. Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
March 17, 202636 min
#163 — Joseph Pine: Why Customers Don’t Care About What You Sell
Joe Pine is the co-author of The Experience Economy—and one of the thinkers who gave leaders a language for why “services” weren’t the end of the story. In this episode, Joe returns with his next major thesis: we’ve entered the Transformation Economy, where the customer is no longer buying inputs (features, service hours, or even memorable moments), but paying for outcomes—lasting change.We unpack what makes a transformation fundamentally different from an experience, why experiences are increasingly commoditized, and why the biggest opportunities now sit in helping people (and organizations) become who they want to become. Joe also shares the practical implications: how leaders can ladder up from “jobs to be done” into deeper aspirations, why identity change sits at the center of transformation, and how pricing shifts when your business is accountable for outcomes.In this episode we cover:•Why transformations are “sustained through time,” not just memorable moments•The idea that all transformation is identity change (and what that means for strategy)•“You are what you charge for”: shifting from time-based pricing to outcome-based pricing•Why the Transformation Economy is already here (and why it’s accelerating now)•The four spheres of transformation—and why they all point toward human flourishing00:00 — Welcome + Episode Setup 01:36 — “If you really know me…” (Anti-social introvert)03:10 — Strategy = the decisions you actually make04:18 — Defining “Transformation” (guiding outcomes that last)06:06 — Experience vs Transformation (customer becomes the product)08:28 — Why the Transformation Economy is already here10:00 — Why now: experiences are commoditizing (Starbucks + COVID shift)13:16 — Identity change at the center of transformation17:46 — From “cobbling” to integrated transformation programs (GLP-1 / Calibrate)21:54 — Pricing in the Transformation Economy (outcomes + human flourishing)34:22 — Where to start + resources (encapsulation, purpose, Substack/toolkit)Additional Resources:Joe Pine’s Transformation Economy Substack: https://transformationsbook.substack.com/Strategic Horizons: https://strategichorizons.com/Strategic Horizons “Integration” page + Transformation Toolkit: https://strategichorizons.com/integrationJoe Pine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
March 3, 202658 min
#162 — Linda Hill & Jason Wild: The Leadership Model Behind Innovation That Scales
In a recent Outthinkers episode sponsored by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff is joined by Linda Hill (Havard Business School) and Jason Wild (WISE) to discuss what it takes to move innovation beyond isolated efforts and into something that can work across an entire organization They explore how strategy is shifting, from control to adaptability, what's actually driving advantage in 2026, and why progress depends on more than just advancing technology. The conversation covers:• Why ecosystems, not individual teams, are becoming the unit of innovation• The role leaders play as architects, bridgers, and catalysts—and what breaks when those roles are missing• Why culture is often the difference between ideas that scale and those that don'tEpisode timeline:00:00 — Cold open: why no company can go it alone00:30 — Sponsor: LHH02:00 — “If you really know me…” (Linda + Jason)03:35 — Definitions of strategy (optionality, choices, and adaptability)08:40 — Why they wrote Genius at Scale12:30 — Why ecosystems are rising (speed, capability gaps, AI)17:00 — Can incumbents adopt an ecosystem approach?22:30 — ABC framework: Architect, Bridger, Catalyst28:40 — The most underappreciated role: the Bridger33:30 — Why bridging is a career risk (and how to fix incentives)41:45 — A practical tool: a “constraints dashboard” + radical transparency45:30 — Where leaders should start54:50 — How to keep learning from Linda + Jason59:20 — Closing + thanksAdditional Resources:Linda Hill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linda-hill-hbs/Jason Wild: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonwild/Book: Genius at Scale — https://geniusatscale.com/Sponsor: LHH Executive Solutions — https://www.lhh.comThank you to our sponsor, LHHThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
February 24, 202641 min
#161 — Neil Hoyne: What Data Can’t Tell You About Strategy
Neil Hoyne is Chief Strategist at Google and one of the sharpest voices on how companies actually make decisions when data, intuition, and organizational politics collide. He works at the intersection of strategy, analytics, and customer value, helping leaders think more clearly about what metrics mean, how to use them, and where they can quietly mislead. He is also the author of Converted and is currently working on a new book exploring how strategy frameworks can be applied to careers and life decisions.Most leaders say they want to be data-driven. But in practice, many organizations still use data to confirm what they already believe, delay hard choices, or create the appearance of rigor without real clarity. At the same time, teams are drowning in more information than ever, while AI is making data gathering and analysis faster, cheaper, and easier to commoditize. The harder challenge now is not collecting data — it’s creating the conditions for better decisions.In this episode, we explore how strategy should be defined in an uncertain world, why customer-centric thinking changes the role of marketing, and how leaders can avoid mistaking metrics for truth. Neil also unpacks customer lifetime value (CLV), the hidden ways metrics get manipulated, and why many companies ask the wrong question when they say they want more data. We also discuss what strategists should focus on as AI changes the work, and why the future advantage may come from decision frameworks, not dashboards.In this episode we cover:•Neil’s practical definition of strategy: using resources to stay alive today while improving your position for tomorrow•Two definitions of marketing — product-centric vs customer-centric — and how the marketer’s role changes in each•What CLV actually is, why it matters, and how short time horizons distort strategic choices•Why common metrics (like conversions and engagement) often aren’t comparable across platforms•The two questions leaders should ask about every KPI: how it’s calculated and how it could be manipulated•Why smart leaders still ignore data, and how human psychology shapes decision-making•How to define “how much data is enough” before a decision•What chief strategy officers can do beyond the annual planning ritual•Why AI strategy should start with your company’s core strategy — not the other way aroundChapters:00:01 — Intro + Neil Hoyne03:10 — The “Last Supper” question08:10 — Misreading people’s career stories10:10 — Strategy definition16:40 — What marketing is21:05 — Customer-centric thinking24:10 — CLV basics30:10 — Why metrics mislead35:10 — How teams game KPIs39:20 — Why leaders ignore data52:00 — How much data is enough?1:01:20 — Risk, speed, and decisions1:07:20 — What strategy leaders should do1:18:10 — New book on careers1:25:10 — AI noise vs core strategy1:30:20 — ClosingAdditional Resources:•Neil Hoyne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilhoyne/•Neil Hoyne website: https://neilhoyne.com/•Converted (Neil Hoyne’s book): https://www.converted.us/•Intro (booking 1:1 time; proceeds to charity): https://intro.co/ (search Neil Hoyne on Intro)Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
February 17, 202646 min
#160 —John Fallon: Leading Through a Decade-Long Disruption
John Fallon is the former CEO of Pearson, where he led one of the most challenging digital transformations of any publicly traded company—shifting a legacy publishing giant from selling ~20 million US college textbooks per year to a subscription-driven, digital platform business. This episode was recorded live at LHH’s Executive Exchange Conference in London, and John joins us to share hard-won leadership lessons from the front lines of disruption.For years we’ve been told only nimble startups survive disruption. But that story misses a quieter truth: most of the Fortune 500 was founded long before the internet—and many incumbents have adapted through multiple platform shifts. In his new book, Resurgent, John (with Julian Birkinshaw of London Business School) makes a contrarian case: established organizations can fight back—and even thrive—if they get clear on their enduring value, redesign for transformation, and lead change like the human “contact sport” it is.In this conversation, John breaks down why disruption often unfolds over decades (not months), how to separate a temporary headwind from a structural shift, and why identifying your company’s true “job to be done” matters more than clinging to any one product. He also shares practical leadership tools for navigating politics, building alignment, empowering middle managers, and sustaining people through prolonged upheaval.What you’ll learn in this episode•Why incumbents are often more resilient than we assume—and what the data says•How to spot the difference between “secular vs structural” change (and why timing is so hard)•The “job to be done” lens: how Pearson moved from textbooks to learning outcomes•Why digital transformation is less about tech and more about people, culture, and organizational design•How to reduce “the meeting after the meeting” and create real disagree-and-commit executionEpisode Timeline00:00 Welcome to Outthinkers + Live Special Episode Setup01:22 Why Incumbents Can Win: Pearson’s Transformation & the Book ‘Resurgent’05:30 Elephants Can Dance: Fortune 500 Resilience and the Myth of Instant Disruption09:10 Pearson’s Textbook Collapse: Secular vs Structural (and Recency Bias)11:33 From Textbooks to ‘Job to Be Done’: Purpose, Pricing, and the Access Model13:45 Crisis Clarifies Identity: Cancer, Core Value, and Avoiding ‘Netflix of X’ Thinking16:56 Making Purpose Real in Transformation: Profit, Restructuring, and Middle Managers as Shock Absorbers21:23 Why Digital Transformation Gets Political: Twin-Speed Orgs, Uncertain Disruption, and Staying ‘Busy Being Born’24:42 Why AI Transformation Is a Human Problem (Linear vs Exponential Change)26:05 CEO Time: Thinking Space, Contrarian Views & “Disagree and Commit”28:14 Avoiding the “Meeting After the Meeting”: How to Build Real Alignment30:17 Audience Q: Leading with Humility—Saying “I Don’t Know” & Showing Humanity34:08 Should You Take the CEO Job? Confidence, Humility, and Resilience Reserves36:49 Beyond the Burning Platform: Replatforming, Timing, and Centralize vs Decentralize41:18 CEO Sounding Boards: CFO/CHRO Partnerships, Board Support, and Staying Grounded43:35 Culture vs Strategy: The “False Dichotomy” and Building a Learning Organization45:47 Wrap-Up, Thanks, and SubscribeAdditional Resources•Resurgent (book): https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/resurgent-9781399422000/John Fallon on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/johnfallonpearsonThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Is this your show?
Claim this listing to keep it up to date, reach guests who want to pitch you, and manage bookings with Guestify.
