Out Of The Clouds

Hosted by Anne V Mühlethaler

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Jun 2026

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Balancing at the crossroads between business and mindfulness, fashion exec turned brand consultant and mindfulness teacher, Anne Muhlethaler, entertains conversations with friends, designers, entrepreneurs, meditation and yoga teachers, weaving their stories into a inspirational platform for a reflection on living. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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September 28, 20261 hr 17 min

Kulsum Shadab Wahab on dignity, healing beyond survival, and building on courage, not sympathy

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Kulsum Shadab Wahab, a Bangalore-based philanthropist and social entrepreneur, Executive Director of the Hothur Foundation and founder of Ara Lumiere. Kulsum has dedicated her life to empowering women who have survived acid attacks. Through Ara Lumiere, she creates sustainable livelihoods through handcrafted garments and accessories that not only foster economic independence but also restore dignity, confidence and purpose. Ara Lumiere champions a new vision of social responsibility within the fashion industry, one that merges artistry with advocacy. This commitment was honoured in 2022, when the brand received the Social Impact Award at the Sustainable Fashion Awards of the Camera Nazionale della Moda Italiana (CNMI), Italy's national chamber of fashion. Kulsum speaks with Anne from the heart of that work, and about its cost: what it means to witness such trauma day after day, and how she holds feeling strong one hour and breaking the next. Kulsum shares with Anne how as a little girl, she felt deeply affected whenever someone was excluded from a group, and what an influence her grandfather was when it came to giving and sharing resources. She reflects on the gap between feeling for someone and acting for them (she was born with empathy, she says, but action is something she learnt much later). She also explains why, when it comes to her work with Ara Lumiere and the Hothur Foundation's support of those women survivors, survival is only ever the beginning. Later, Anne and Kulsum explore the meaning of healing when someone's lost their identities, the work that lies after the surgeries, and Kulsum explains how her background in psychology shapes the way she listens to each woman, rather than deciding for her what she needs (the foundation, she says, is not rehabilitating a case but a person, a story). The pair also discuss skin banking, a cause close to Kulsum's heart, and why pledging your skin matters (see resources below). Of course, Kulsum also tells Anne how Ara Lumiere came to be, a story of doors opening where no one imagined there was a door. She recalls how a therapeutic workshop at the foundation led her and women survivors all the way to Milan Fashion Week. She also describes what it meant for them, not least to have their creativity seen and celebrated before their pain: a victory over violence, and pain transformed into power. Kulsum shares updates about Ara Pret, where each garment becomes a story of resilience, beauty and renewal. She affirms her refusal to build a brand on sympathy, choosing courage instead, along with timelessness over trends and slow, steady growth. She also offers an exciting glimpse of what's ahead, with an upcoming collaboration with her friend, the artist Raghava KK. And she speaks about The Phoenix Circle, the community she created to uplift survivors of acid attacks and female genital mutilation, striving for a world free from such violence. Along the way, Kulsum's rebel streak shines through. A moving, fierce and warm-hearted conversation about dignity, identity and the courage it takes to rebuild a life. Happy listening! Selected links from episode You can connect with Kulsum and Ara Lumiere: Ara Lumiere website: https://aralumiere.com/ Kulsum Shadab Wahab on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kulsumshadabwahab/ Ara Lumiere on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ara.lumiere/ Hothur Foundation on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hothurfoundation/ On skin and tissue donation: Swisstransplant - Tissue donation explained in simple language (in French) Donate Life America - Register as an organ, eye and tissue donor in the US - NHS Blood and Transplant - Tissue donation in the UK MOHAN Foundation Other links: Raghava KK - Artist collaborating with the women of Ara Lumiere "Unwritten" by Natasha Bedingfield - Song that represents Kulsum Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

June 17, 20261 hr 43 min

Dr. Paule Valery Joseph on the Cinderella sense, chemosensory science and making smell and taste count

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Dr. Paule Valery Joseph: nurse scientist, clinician, entrepreneur, writer and 2025 Guggenheim Fellow. Born in Venezuela to Haitian parents and trained at Hostos Community College, Pace University and the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Joseph is a Senior Investigator at the National Institutes of Health, where she leads the Section on Sensory Science and Metabolism. She is also the co-founder of the Global Consortium for Chemosensory Research, a network spanning more than 70 countries, and the founder and CEO of Anchor Health. Her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, nutrition, behaviour, and prevention — and her driving question is both simple and radical: what if our senses are not secondary to health, but among the body's earliest and most intelligent warning systems? The conversation starts with Dr Joseph sharing her life story, growing up between Spanish, French and Haitian Creole, in a household shaped by two cultures and a mother who was a community nurse. She describes how her early years in Venezuela planted questions she would spend her career answering. The path from bedside nursing in the Bronx to becoming one of the world's leading chemosensory scientists was not a straight line, but it was guided, she says, by an accumulation of questions she could not accept leaving unanswered. Anne and Paule discuss what it means to be a nurse scientist, a researcher who begins with the patient's experience and considers a discovery unfinished until a nurse in a community clinic or a patient's living room can actually use it. Paule explains how her early observations in long-term care facilities and later work with bariatric surgery patients first drew her attention to taste and smell: patients whose food no longer tasted the same, whose appetite had shifted, whose relationship to flavour had fundamentally changed. These observations led her to the Monell Chemical Senses Center and to a career studying the molecular mechanisms behind chemosensing. The conversation goes deep into what taste and smell can tell us about overall health. Paule describes how smell loss can predate a diagnosis of Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's by four to ten years, and shares the story of her mother-in-law, whose subtle changes in cooking first signalled something was wrong and ultimately led to a diagnosis of frontotemporal lobe dementia. It is one of the most striking illustrations in the episode of what she calls the body's sensory early warning system, and of the fact that most clinicians still do not routinely test for it. Other themes include the Ozempic tongue phenomenon and what GLP-1 drugs are revealing about the relationship between the gut, the brain and flavour perception; the emerging field of urban smellscapes and how scent has been used across cultures and centuries as a way of marking place, time and memory; and what it might mean to treat smell and taste as vital signs, as routinely assessed as vision or hearing. Paule speaks with equal warmth about the personal dimensions of her work: the mentorship she received and pays forward, the responsibility she feels as the first nurse scientist in 100 years to receive a Guggenheim Fellowship, the joy of her TED Fellowship and the unexpected collaboration it opened with a cacao expert, and the book she is writing at the intersection of smell, health and wellbeing. She closes with the word she might tattoo on herself — ancestor — and with Celia Cruz, whose defiant joy she describes as a Caribbean inheritance she carries everywhere. A memorable conversation with a scientist who studies the senses and a host who has been learning, since their first meeting, to follow her nose. Happy listening! Connect with Paule: Paule Valery Joseph's website Paule Valery Joseph on LinkedIn Paule Valery Joseph on Instagram Paule Valery Joseph on BlueSky Paule Valery Joseph on YouTube For more, head over to https://OutoftheClouds.com/the-Podcast Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 4, 20261 hr 39 min

Saskia Wheeler on neuroaesthetics, being wired for beauty, and closing the gap between intention and felt experience

Saskia Wheeler is a strategist and researcher working at the intersection of neuroscience and design, translating cognitive and sensory science into frameworks that guide how creative work is felt and experienced. For the past six years, she has worked with designers, agencies and hospitality brands to help them close the gap between the experience they intend to create and the one people actually feel. Saskia studied philosophy at Trinity College Dublin before completing a Master's in Neuroaesthetics at Goldsmiths, University of London. In this episode of Out of the Clouds, Saskia tells Anne about her upbringing in a creative London household (her mother was an art director who often had photographers living in the family home) and how she developed an early sensitivity to the way art and design bring atmosphere and meaning to everyday environments. Drawn to questions of consciousness and perception, she explains what led her from philosophy to neuroaesthetics, and why she felt she could not go further into questions of consciousness without first understanding the brain. Saskia and Anne discuss what neuroaesthetics actually is: the scientific study of how art, design, music and architecture measurably change our brains and bodies. Still a relatively young field, it draws on rigorous research to show that beauty and aesthetic experience are not decorative concerns but deeply embedded in how we evolved. The most surprising thing Saskia has learned in the field: just how deeply wired we are to respond to beauty. She also shares an insight that sits at the crossroads of philosophy and neuroscience and that has stayed with her since her studies: that lived experience is not simply made up of what we perceive in the present moment. It is co-created by our past memories, which don't merely inform the present but actually shape and in part create it. This is why two people can occupy the same space and have entirely different experiences of it, and why, Saskia reflects, understanding this has given her more compassion for herself and others. Saskia and Anne discuss the applications of neuroarchitecture and design, and what the research tells us about what makes spaces feel good to be in. Saskia identifies three things people value most: homeness (warmth and comfort), coherence (how well the space meets expectations and guides movement through it) and fascination (how much it surprises and interests). She also makes the case for touch as the most underestimated sense when it comes to comfort, linked to the neurochemical oxytocin and the experience of trust, and explains why this extends beyond physical contact with other people to the materials we come into contact with in our environments. Creativity is also an emerging area within neuroaesthetics, and Saskia speaks about it as an increasingly recognised fifth pillar of health and wellbeing, alongside exercise, sleep, nutrition and social connection. What she says here is worth sitting with: the benefits of creativity come from the expression and the doing, rather than the output. The inner critic is so often the biggest obstacle, because creativity has long been tied to being good at something rather than simply doing it. Anne and Saskia also share a practice: both are devoted morning pages writers. The conversation also touches on cognitive load and clutter (including research suggesting that disorganisation in our environments creates low-level vigilance even when we are not consciously aware of it), biophilic design, the science of lighting, and Anne's own plans for Le Trente, a social learning studio she is developing in Geneva. A rich exchange with a thinker who is quietly changing how the built world gets made. Happy listening! Selected links Connect with Saskia: Saskia Wheeler on Instagram: @neuro.aesthetic Website: https://www.saskiawheeler.co.uk/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saskiawheeler/ Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

April 14, 20262 hr 7 min

Caitlin Krause on creative brightness, digital thriving, and the call for more play

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes back Caitlin Krause for their second conversation. Caitlin is a globally recognised experience designer, educator, author and founder of MindWise , whose work spans digital wellbeing, immersive design, contemplative practice and creative expression . She holds an MFA in poetry, has taught internationally across Belgium and Switzerland, and built the digital wellbeing program about wellbeing and technology at Stanford University. She teaches at the University of Oregon. She advises organisations including TED, The U.S. Air Force, LinkedIn, Google, Meta, Oracle, Evernote, and the U.S. State Department. Caitlin creates human-centered experiences mediated by technology, fusing creativity, meditation, storytelling, collaboration, and emotional intelligence for full life thriving. She is the author of six books, including her most recent work on digital wellbeing and a forthcoming collection of poetry, Poems of Root and Light. Caitlin and Anne first met at TED 2023, whose theme that year was Possibilities — and the thread of possibility runs through their exchange. Anne and Caitlin discuss her newest book, Digital Wellbeing, A transformative guide to thriving in the digital age . The conversation explores the etymology of the word 'digital' itself — a thread Caitlin traces from the digits of the hand through Shakespeare's Lady Macbeth to the immersive computing she works with today. Caitlin speaks to her motivation behind the book: not to produce a manual of healthy habits, nor to surrender to the idea that the machines have already won, but to offer an entry point for people to approach digital technology with less fear and hopefully less overwhelm that so many leaders and teams experience.The book is designed around the conviction that your body is your testing ground, that you get to have your experience and own it, and that the question of technology is ultimately a question of being. Caitlin's framework for immersive design, seven themes she calls the seven Es, anchored in what she describes as wonder-rich spatial computing design, runs through the conversation as both a professional methodology and a personal philosophy. Anne and Caitlin also discuss Caitlin's Shadow Storytelling experience, in which she guided participants from a Zoom call into a shared metaverse landscape for a meditation and storytelling session built around Jungian themes, winter imagery and candlelit caves. Both women explore the question of technology as a dance partner rather than a destination, and what it means to be the embodied physical human deciding how and whether to layer with it. Caitlin also tells the story of how the spirit of play, cultivated through an itinerant childhood in a foreign service family, has directly informed her pedagogy and her approach to guiding people into transformative experiences through technology. The conversation closes with Caitlin reading two poems from her forthcoming collection — 'The Middle Path' and the title poem 'Root and Light' — bringing the episode to a still and luminous end. Connect with Caitlin Caitlin's website: caitlinkrause.com MindWise — Caitlin's consultancy Poems of Root and Light — forthcoming poetry collection Digital Satori — Caitlin's 2023 poetry collection Caitlin’s upcoming course at Kripalu Centre ‘ Awakening Awe ’: Referenced in the episode: John O'Donohue — Irish poet and philosopher Martha Graham — choreographer and dance pioneer, quoted in the episode David Whyte — poet and author whose work Caitlin references Joy Harjo — poet, referenced by Caitlin Ursula K. Le Guin — writer, whose quote about 'there, there' Caitlin shares Esther Perel — referenced for her TED moment about putting down our phones World Economic Forum — referenced in the context of new wellbeing metrics The Story of You — Anne's coaching methodology Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

March 7, 20262 hr 30 min

Katia Dayan Vladimirova on degrowth, the bubble of fast fashion and the creativity of constraint

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne V. Mühlethaler welcomes Katia Dayan Vladimirova, a senior sustainability policy expert with almost fifteen years of research experience at the intersection of fashion, policy, and social change. Katia is the founder of the Post Growth Fashion Agency, a boutique advisory service working with local and national governments and NGOs to transform how we consume and dispose of fashion. She is also the author of the Substack Post Growth Fashion, the founder of the International Research Network on Sustainable Fashion Consumption — now hosted at Yale and bringing together close to 180 researchers globally — and the founder of Well Rounded, the first plastic-free underwear brand made in Europe, with a supply chain traced all the way to cotton fields in Greece. She holds a double PhD in climate ethics and political science, and has studied and worked at institutions including the London School of Economics, MIT, ULB in Brussels, LUISS in Rome, and UNIGE in Geneva. The conversation begins with Katia sharing her story. Anne and Katia then get into the ideas at the heart of Katia's work. She unpacks degrowth and sufficiency, making the case that the labels do these concepts a disservice, since studies show overwhelming public support for the underlying principles once they are actually explained. Applied to fashion, she is interested not in restricting creativity but in shifting how we experience clothing: through swapping, renting, repairing, community events, and a deeper relationship with what we already own. She talks about the Rule of Five, how we would each need to limit ourselves to in order to stay within the planetary boundaries aligned with the Paris Agreement's target. The pair also discuss the role of cities in managing textile waste and Katia's work with Geneva, Luxembourg, Amsterdam, and others to make sustainable fashion alternatives viable at a local level. She notes that in Geneva, only 3% of donated garments are redistributed locally; the rest enter a global stream that ends up, in large part, in open-air landfills in West Africa. Katia then shares the argument at the heart of her essay The Trojan Horse of Fashion: that the oversupply of secondhand. itself a product of fast fashion overproduction, is creating a bubble that will burst within five to ten years, forcing a major restructuring of the industry. An exceptionally knowledgeable, warm, and surprisingly joyful conversation on one of the most urgent topics of our time. Happy listening! Connect with Katia Dayan Vladimirova: Find Katia on LinkedIn Post Growth Fashion Substack Post Growth Fashion Agency International Research Network on Sustainable Fashion Consumption Well Rounded — Katia's circular underwear brand Referenced in the episode: The True Cost movie — Documentary (2014) directed by Andrew Morgan Rana Plaza — Background on the 2013 factory collapse in Dhaka, Bangladesh Hot Cool Institute — Berlin-based think tank; co-authors of the 2022 global fashion consumption report The Rule of Five — Campaign inspired by the five-garment-per-year finding Paris Agreement — The 2015 climate accord and its 1.5-degree target Vestiaire Collective — Secondhand platform referenced by Anne HUT / Caritas Luxembourg — One-stop sustainable fashion hub in Luxembourg Kate Fletcher — Pioneer in sustainable fashion, featured in Katia's webinar series Dilys Williams — Sustainable fashion academic, featured in Katia's webinar series Jason Hickel — Degrowth scholar referenced in the conversation Project 333 — Capsule wardrobe challenge referenced in the conversation Gabriela Hearst — Designer referenced by Anne for her approach to materials Satoshi Kuwata — Milan-based designer mentioned by Katia as an example of genuine creative resilience Tim Lomas — Positive psychology professor, featured in an earlier Out of the Clouds episode , Your Story Your Map: — a contemplative guide to help you trace the arc of your life with intention. Get it here Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

December 31, 20251 hr 58 min

Zsofia Jamieson on becoming your own health advocate, building a beautiful venture from the inside out, and The Fertility Class

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne V. Mühlethaler welcomes Zsofia Jamieson, co-founder of The Fertility Class, for an illuminating conversation about reproductive health, entrepreneurship and the power of becoming your own health advocate. Zsofia is a certified Aviva Method teacher, entrepreneur and former fashion executive who served as Global Head of Business Operations for luxury e-commerce group Net-a-Porter. Diagnosed with severe PCOS as a teenager and told she might never conceive, she was surprised to heal naturally through movement and nutrition, and today dedicates her work to helping women worldwide reconnect with their bodies and reproductive health. Zsofia tells Anne about her upbringing in a small town in Hungary, where she grew up during the transition from socialism to capitalism. At just 15, she moved to the United States as an exchange student, an adventure that would shape her into the resilient, driven woman she is today. She shares how she went on to study business and logistics, and how she found her calling at the intersection of operations and luxury fashion. Zsofia then goes on to explain the health struggles that had been simmering beneath her high-powered career. Diagnosed with PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) as a teenager, she spent a decade on birth control pills that masked her symptoms. When she came off the medication to start a family, all her symptoms returned with a vengeance. This crisis became a catalyst for transformation. Through her own research, Zsofia discovered the Aviva Method, a Hungarian practice of therapeutic fertility exercises that she would later introduce to the UK and US. The Fertility Class is a science-backed exercise method for fertility and hormonal health: a guided movement programme designed to support reproductive health naturally. Through gentle, targeted exercises that enhance pelvic circulation and hormonal balance, it helps the body create the ideal conditions for conception. Practiced for decades and trusted by doctors, the method empowers women to take an active role in their fertility from home, on their own time. It addresses menstrual health, supports those trying to conceive, and helps with conditions including PCOS, endometriosis and fibroids. Anne and Zsofia explore the science behind these exercises, which Zsofia describes as a way to counteract the effects of our sedentary lifestyles on reproductive health. The pair discuss how sitting for extended periods essentially cuts off blood flow to our reproductive organs, depriving them of oxygen, hormones and nutrients. The fertility exercises work by rhythmically contracting and releasing the muscles surrounding these organs, pumping blood flow and tapping into reflexology points connected to hormone-producing glands. Zsofia speaks passionately about the gap in women's healthcare, the vast space between doing nothing and pursuing invasive medical treatments. With one in six couples struggling with infertility, 10% of women affected by PCOS and another 10% by endometriosis, she sees The Fertility Class as filling a crucial need for accessible, evidence-based tools that empower people to rebalance their hormones, restore pelvic circulation and reconnect with their bodies naturally. An empowering conversation about health advocacy, the wisdom of listening to our bodies and creating tools that truly serve reproductive wellbeing. Happy listening! Selected links from episode The Fertility Class website The Fertility Class on Instagram The Fertility Class Men's Programme Net-a-Porter Mr Porter The Outnet Natalie Massenet The Aviva Method PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome) - NHS information Endometriosis Hypothalamic Amenorrhea The playlist from guests of Out of The Clouds answering 'What song best represents you?' The Song that best represents Zsofia (especially on HIGH volume:) The Shapeshifters: Lola's Theme Zsofia’s favorite book: Magda Szabo: Iza's Ballad (Original Hungarian title: Pilátus) Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

November 22, 20252 hr 4 min

Tijana Tamburic on being raised for autonomy, the gift of vulnerable conversations, and building a business that serves your life

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Tijana Tamburic, a storyteller, creative director and co-founder of Female Narratives. After a decade as a model combined with a UCL history degree and experience in publishing and editorial roles, she co-founded Female Narratives to disrupt the outdated advertising industry. Named Forbes 30 Under 30 for Media & Marketing (and later serving as a judge), Tijana has worked on creative campaigns for brands like Bumble, BBC Studios and Allbirds, helping them tell real human stories. She's also the host of The Slow Down podcast and a board advisor for social enterprise OK MENTOR. Anne discovered Tijana through The Slow Down, which offers what Tijana calls the career advice she never got in her twenties, aka conversations with people who've redefined success beyond hustle culture. Tijana shares her journey from arriving in London as an 18-month-old Serbian immigrant to being raised for autonomy by hardworking parents. She candidly discusses her teenage antics, keeping her modeling career at arm's length, staying in education, and initially hiding her avant-garde editorial modeling work from friends. She tells Anne about her Burning Man transformation, meeting her future business partner on a flight to Ibiza, and her first ayahuasca ceremony, noting how these experiences introduced her to patient, graceful women who helped her step into her feminine energy after years of operating from a masculine, confrontational stance. This shift led to founding Female Narratives, which initially got swept up in girl boss culture's demands to scale and sell. After two years on this path, Tijana and her co-founder had a crucial conversation about what kind of life they actually wanted. They worked backwards to design a boutique agency requiring a handful of projects yearly to meet their goals, allowing them to be selective about clients and maintain work-life balance. Tijana reflects on her relationship with her archetypal masculine mother, a Serbian pharmacist who became a professor at London College of Fashion. The conversation also explores Tijana's past addiction to stress, her journey through burnout, and her ongoing practice of stepping into feminine energy through active listening and moving from scarcity to abundance mindset. A candid conversation about building a business that serves your life, balancing masculine and feminine energies, and why vulnerable conversations are gifts that help us feel seen and understood. Selected links from episode: The Female Narratives website The Slow Down podcast Tijana's Instagram: @tamburic Tijana's TEDx Bucharest talk titled ‘When my masculine met my feminine’ Heart Diffraction Glasses (as featured at Burning Man) The Whisperers by Orlando Figes Julia Astok Esther Perel on autonomy vs loyalty Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

October 26, 20251 hr 29 min

Serge Mouangue on aesthetic dialogue, the spirituality of design and transcending cultural boundaries

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes artist and designer Serge Mouangue for a rare and intimate conversation about his remarkable creative journey. Born in Cameroon and now based between France and Japan, Serge has built an artistic practice that explores the deep cultural resonances between West Africa and Japan through his Wafrica project. The conversation begins with Serge sharing his early life in Cameroon, where he explains the incredible linguistic diversity of his homeland through a striking example - counting from one to ten in his mother's and father's dialects, which sound completely different despite being from villages only 100 kilometers apart. He describes himself as a dreamy child with endless imagination who, growing up in government housing in France without many material possessions, would imagine all the things that were missing - vacuum cleaners, appliances, furniture - developing his ability to give shape to dreams through drawing. Serge's path led him from interior design to industrial design, and eventually to Japan through his work in automotive design at Nissan. It was there, in 2006, that he discovered unexpected parallels between Japanese and West African cultures: complex hierarchy systems, animistic spirituality that sees souls in all things, and deep reverence for elders. These discoveries sparked what would become his signature artistic exploration. The heart of the conversation centers on Serge's Wafrica project - kimonos made with African fabrics that blur the boundaries of identity and belonging. He shares a moving story about a Japanese customer who, wearing one of his kimonos, said she felt like she was "wearing world heritage" and no longer felt bound by the traditional submissive role associated with the garment. His other works include the Blood Brothers - African pygmy stools lacquered with Japanese urushi (described poetically as "African wood covered by the blood of a Japanese tree") - and installations like the Seven Sisters, exploring women's secrets and shared experiences. Throughout the interview, Serge reveals his unique creative process, emphasizing how he "puts feelings first" and trusts his intuition "literally a hundred percent." He describes holding stories in his imagination for years - sometimes six or seven - before they're ready to be born into physical form. His deep relationship with sound emerges as central to his practice, from recording strangers' stories in Australia as a young man to his ongoing fascination with everything from Pygmy hunting songs to the sound of children playing. The conversation also touches on profound themes of identity and belonging. As Serge notes, "cultural identity is not a given. It's a journey. It's something that you build through time." His work ultimately transcends the specific dialogue between West Africa and Japan to speak to anyone who has felt at home somewhere unexpected or questioned where they're truly from. Anne and Serge discuss his advice for those with dreams: acknowledging the risks while emphasizing persistence, hard work, and the importance of luck - which he notes comes to those who "put everything around it so that it happens." When asked about his favorite word, Serge chooses "transcend," explaining how it encompasses both transformation and the spiritual dimension he seeks in all his work. A deeply thoughtful and poetic conversation with an artist who rarely gives interviews, making this intimate discussion all the more precious. Selected Links from Episode: Serge Mouague’s website: wafrica.art Akaa Design Fair (October 24-26, Paris): akaafair.com Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

September 3, 20251 hr 35 min

Ashley Bernardi on the cost of untold stories, giving herself the permission to feel and healing into her authentic power

In this deeply moving episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Ashley Bernardi, an award-winning podcaster, author, media relations expert, and founder of Nardi Media. Ashley served as a network television news producer for nearly a decade, with credits including CBS News, energyNOW! on Bloomberg TV, and Washington Post Live. She has helped multiple authors launch their books and become New York Times Best Sellers, including Mel Robbins, Dr. Susan Peirce Thompson, and Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, with client placements in top-tier outlets like The Washington Post, The New York Times, TODAY, Good Morning America, CBS This Morning, NPR, Fortune, and hundreds more. Ashley's personal story begins with profound childhood trauma - losing her father to a sudden heart attack at age 11 - and traces her journey through decades of burying her emotions while excelling professionally as a journalist and PR expert. Ashley shares with Anne how she grew up in a creative military family, with her father serving as an Army colonel at the Pentagon and her mother running a successful dance studio in the DC area. The sudden loss of her beloved dad became a defining moment which brought her to suppress her grief and emotions for over two decades, channeling her energy into professional achievement while struggling with various coping mechanisms. The conversation takes a profound turn as Ashley describes how unprocessed trauma eventually manifested in her body through a severe case of Lyme disease following the birth of her third daughter. After being medically gaslit by numerous doctors, Ashley experienced what she refers to as her "dark night of the soul" –- a moment of complete surrender that finally opened the door to processing her long-buried grief for her father. Ashley details her healing journey, which involved developing daily practices of meditation, journaling, breathwork, therapy, coaching, and more. She explains how learning to "feel her feelings" in real-time became the foundation for both her physical healing and her relationship with her deceased father. The experience transformed her approach to life and work, impacting the work she does at Nardi Media, a PR agency specialising in health, wellness, spirituality, and mission-driven organisations. Throughout their conversation, Anne and Ashley explore the importance of storytelling as both a healing tool and a way to connect with others. Ashley shares practical advice for those wanting to share their own stories, emphasising the difference between written and spoken communication and the necessity of practicing your story out loud. She also discusses her work with renowned clients like Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor and Dr. Emma Seppälä, and how her personal healing journey informed her professional mission. The interview concludes with Ashley's insights on the transformative power of authentic connection, the importance of honoring both masculine and feminine energies, and her belief that everyone has healing wisdom within them. She emphasises that feelings are meant to be felt and processed, not buried, and that our authentic power comes from getting quiet and listening to our inner wisdom. A raw, honest, and ultimately hopeful conversation about trauma, healing, and the courage it takes to live authentically. Connect with Ashley: Ashley Bernardi's website: ashleybernardi.com Nardi Media: nardimedia.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nardi_media Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

July 22, 20251 hr 29 min

Karen Salmansohn on finding humor in life's heaviness, identity-based habits, and your to-die-for life

In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Karen Salmansohn, a bestselling author who has sold over 2 million books globally and describes herself as someone who puts "Psychology Today and Mad Magazine in a blender and presses frappé." Known for writing self-help books for people who wouldn't be caught dead reading self-help and pioneering the self-help book with attitude—she was the first personal development author to put a curse word in a book title with "How to Be Happy, Dammit"—Karen brings her signature blend of wisdom and wit to every conversation. In her interview with Anne, Karen speaks about how her journey from senior VP creative director in advertising to bestselling author began with a bold leap of faith driven by pure passion. After achieving early success in advertising (including winning a Clio in her first six months on the job), she realised she wanted to write a novel. After threatening to quit, she finally did. Karen shares the story of how this bold decision led to a remarkable career spanning novels, self-help books, and everything in between. After her first novel, she started to pen books meant to inspire people to think in new ways, which she found more fulfilling than writing copy to convince the same people to switch toothpaste brands. Next Anne and Karen explore the inspiration behind Karen's latest book, "Your To-Die-For Life," which emerged from both her experience of "near-life experiences" (being life-adjacent rather than fully present) and the profound impact of her father's death. Karen shares how giving her father's eulogy prompted her to write her own, which led to a thorough reassessment of her priorities and inspired her to move from working in "beast mode" to what she now calls "best mode." The discussion delves deep into Karen's practical framework for living intentionally, including her seven core values that she reverse-engineered from the top regrets of the dying (Authentic, Brave, Curious, Discerning, Empathic Love, Fun, and Gratitude). Karen also explains her powerful concept of identity-based habits and "to-die lists"—daily practices that help align your actions with who you want to become, using the format "I am [core value] and so I do [action]." One of the most compelling parts of their conversation centers on Karen's marble jar ritual—a tangible way to practice mortality awareness with each marble representing a remaining month of life, creating a monthly ritual of reflection and intentional living. Karen describes herself as a "middle of life doula:" someone helping people create meaningful change while there's still a runway ahead. Throughout the interview, Karen demonstrates her gift for making profound concepts accessible through humor and practical tools. From her early days writing silly poems about chemistry homework to helping readers navigate life's heaviness with levity, she embodies her belief that humor is a great survival tool and that we can find awe and meaning in everyday moments. The conversation touches on behavioral change, the importance of meaningful relationships, the power of curiosity as an antidote to fear, and how mortality awareness can awaken us to make each day more beautiful and purposeful. Karen's approach isn't about morbid fixation on death, but rather using awareness of life's finite nature to live more vividly and intentionally. A thoughtful and inspiring conversation that offers both practical tools and philosophical insights for anyone seeking to live more fully and authentically. Happy listening! Selected links from episode Out of the Clouds website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Out of the Clouds on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_outoftheclouds The Mettā View website: https://avm.consulting/metta-view Anne on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ Anne on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@annvi Anne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler/ Connect with Karen: On Instagram @notsalmon On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Notsalmon/ On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/karensalmansohn/ On Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@karensalmansohn-OFFICIAL Karen's Work: Your To Die For Life - Karen's latest book and website Karen's Substack: The Stand-Up Philosopher Legacy Lab coaching with Karen You’re never too old to re-jigger your life - a video masterclass Her TEDxTalk: Fun is your high-performance fuel Referenced in the Interview: Jonathan Fields interviews Karen Salmansohn for the Good Life Project Karen's Notable Books Mentioned: "How to Be Happy, Dammit" - The book that started it all "Even God Is Single, So Stop Giving Me a Hard Time" "The Clitourist: A guide to one of the hottest spots on Earth" "How to Make Your Man Behave in 21 Days or Less Using the Secrets of Professional Dog Trainers" Karen's Song Picks: Alanis Morissette - "You Learn" Sarah Bareilles - "Brave" Philosophical References: Aristotle's philosophy on living a good life The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying Regina Spektor (artist Karen admires) Links: Jonathan Fields interviews Karen Salmansohn for the Good Life Project Some of Karen’s most successful titles: How to be Happy, dammit Even God Is Single, so stop giving me a hard Time. The Clitourist : A guide to one of the hottest spots on Earth for people with a clitoris, or people who love people with one The upcoming book: https://yourtodieforlife.com/ Karen’s picks for the song that best represents her https://open.spotify.com/track/2yx1kAK1Fe2zTOsaDKSNBk?si=4a71f79f8dd54b55 Alanis Morissette You Learn (live) Brave by Sarah Bareilles https://open.spotify.com/track/6Uy6K3KdmUdAfelUp0SeXn?si=4b6e66955a8743f2 This episode is brought to you by Le Trente Are you a purpose-driven individual seeking clarity in your personal narrative? Is your brand struggling to communicate authentically with your audience? Looking for a thought partnership that transforms how you connect with the world? Le Trente is a global community that emboldens purpose-driven individuals and organizations to communicate authentically. Headquartered in Geneva but serving clients worldwide, we coach both individuals and brands through their communication journey—from identity exploration to strategy development—all grounded in mindful leadership and compassionate, holistic communication. Our mission is to be a catalyst for positive change. We inspire open-minded people and organisations to build better worlds through community-building salons, strategic consulting, mindful coaching and storytelling. Ready to transform your approach to communication and create ripples of positive change? Get in touch, we like to make magic happen. FIND OUT MORE ABOUT LE TRENTE HERE . *** If you enjoyed this episode, click subscribe for more, and consider writing a review of the show on Apple Podcasts, we really appreciate your support and feedback. And thank you so much for listening! For all notes and transcripts, please visit Out Of The Clouds on Simplecast - https://out-of-the-clouds.simplecast.com/ Sign up for Anne's email newsletter for more from Out of the Clouds at https://outoftheclouds.com . Follow Anne and Out of the Clouds: IG: @_outoftheclouds or @annvi Or on Threads @annvi On Youtube @OutoftheClouds For more, you can read and subscribe to Anne's Substack, the Mettā View, her weekly dose of insights on coaching, brand development, the future of work, and storytelling, with a hint of mindfulness. Story is The Strategy - Anne's 2h on-demand masterclass Website: https://outoftheclouds.com/ Subscribe to The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/ BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.