Moving to Value Unscripted

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Aug 2026

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Honest conversations with disruptors in healthcare. Presented by the Moving to Value Alliance, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to cultivating a healthcare ecosystem that prioritizes high-quality outcomes at affordable costs for employers and consumers. Learn more at movingtovalue.org.

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60 recent

August 18, 202641 min

Why Are We Still Paying For Low-Value Care? (feat. Mark Fendrick)

"Never ask a barber if you need a haircut." Misaligned incentives within the fee-for-service structure have normalized more spending on low-value services and less spending on high-value care. You might think that the highest value services — think vaccines, insulin, early screenings — should be the easiest for patients to access. And yes, when a service is free and widely available, it is typically popular. Case in point, the more than 250 million Americans who got a free COVID-19 vaccine. But big insurance doesn't provide full coverage out of the goodness of their hearts. There are legal provisions, most notably the Affordable Care Act's preventive services provision, requiring full coverage of certain services. Dr. Mark Fendrick, director of the University of Michigan's Center for Value-Based Insurance Design, helped draft this language in the Affordable Care Act and has dedicated his career to advancing Value-Based Insurance Design (VBID). He joins us to discuss why increased spending on high-value care is still being debated. And yes, our foreheads are bruised from banging our heads against the wall. Find the transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/fendrick ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

August 4, 20261 hr 5 min

Re-Release: The Nuka Blueprint (feat. April Kyle & Dr. Doug Eby)

Re-release of a conversation recorded in July 2025. What would healthcare look like if it were truly built around the people it serves? In this episode, we take a closer look at Alaska’s Southcentral Foundation and its internationally acclaimed Nuka System of Care — a model that has redefined what value-based care can mean when relationships, trust and community ownership are at the center. Joining us are April Kyle, President and CEO of Southcentral Foundation, and Dr. Doug Eby, the system’s founding medical director and one of Nuka’s chief architects. Together, we explore how an Alaska Native–owned health system transformed itself from a federal bureaucracy into one of the world’s most respected models of integrated, relationship-based care. April and Doug share the principles and practices that have led to dramatically improved outcomes and high patient and employee satisfaction at significantly lower costs. Through the story of Nuka, we consider what’s possible when healthcare shifts from doing things to patients to partnering with people — and how lessons from Alaska might chart a course toward more human, more effective value-based systems around the country (and the world). Find a transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/nuka ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

July 21, 202636 min

How to Spot PBM Markups Hiding in Plain Sight (feat. James Murray)

What if a generic medication retailing for $15 was billed to your company’s health plan for over $6,000? James Murray, Founder and Managing Director of Murray Strategic Healthcare Ventures, spotlights these massive markups happening every day in corporate healthcare. With 35 years of Wall Street capital markets experience, Murray brings an institutional risk manager’s lens to the opaque world of Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs). He identifies the middleman fees draining employer budgets and employee retirement assets, and shares how self-insured plan sponsors can use public Form 5500 filings and new CAA disclosure mandates to demand fee transparency at the renewal table. Tired of accepting healthcare spending as an uncontrollable expense? This episode is a roadmap to reclaiming control. Find a transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/murray ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

July 7, 202643 min

Insurance Giants are Running Out of Time (feat. François de Brantes)

The legacy insurance machine is running out of time, and the pendulum is swinging back toward employers. Healthcare innovation pioneer François de Brantes lays out a ruthless, no-compromise blueprint for self-insured employers to reclaim control of their healthcare spend. Currently the Executive Vice President of Payment Innovation and Network Performance at XO Health, de Brantes pulls zero punches in discussing how the industry has crossed the line into unabashed stealing from corporate pockets. He breaks down a 25-year industry regression, as corporate giants which once demanded 100% unredacted claims data ceded that power to carriers. He exposes the opaque consultant commission schemes serving as the carriers' last line of defense, and he outlines how employers can use new transparency mandates to fulfill their legal fiduciary duties and protect themselves from liability. Stop playing defense and stop settling for point-solution pennies. Tune in for an unfiltered masterclass on how to finally force transparency and real value from the healthcare system. Find a transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/debrantes ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

June 23, 202642 min

Treating the 'Madness' of Healthcare's Status Quo (feat. William Bestermann)

The American healthcare system is financially engineered to wait for expensive medical disasters rather than preventing them. Perhaps no one has a clearer view of how to dismantle this "rescue medicine" trap than Dr. Bill Bestermann. A preventive cardiologist and former President of the South Carolina affiliate of the American Heart Association, Bestermann has spent decades fighting the "medical-industrial complex" from the inside—as an ICU director, health plan advisor, and chief medical officer. As the author of the Slow Aging and Delayed Chronic Disease Development newsletter, Bestermann exposes how Wall Street insurance companies and obsolete, 50-year-old billing models actively protect highly profitable specialty silos at the expense of patient health. He is a fierce champion of optimal medical therapy, a low-cost, protocol-driven approach that arrests chronic disease at the root cellular level. He joins us to unpack the staggering economic disparity between standard procedure-driven care and molecular prevention, explaining how self-insured employers and communities can bypass bloated hospital networks to buy actual, measurable value. Find a transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/bestermann ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

June 9, 202647 min

Scaling Up Self-Funded Employer-Led Healthcare (feat. Ashley Bacot)

Picture a healthcare plan with free primary care visits, physicals and health screenings, $0 copays for most services and prescriptions and negotiated direct contracts for most major procedures, as well as on-site fitness, flu shots, vaccines, family planning, nutritional services and more. This is the reality for thousands of employees of Rosen Hotels & Resorts in Orlando, Florida, leading to high primary care compliance and huge savings — $500 million to date. As most employers brace for double-digit premium increases, Rosen's costs remain roughly half the national averages. Ashley Bacot, the architect of Rosen's world-renowned healthcare plan, joins us to discuss how this model can serve as a blueprint for scaling up sustainable, value-based healthcare across the country. Find the transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/bacot ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/members .

May 12, 202648 min

How to Build Community Owned Health Plans (feat. Bryce Heinbaugh)

In Ohio's rural Ashtabula County, employers and patients struggled with rising costs and accessing services until a community coalition built a localized healthcare ecosystem. The results? A transparent financial structure that cuts out middlemen, direct primary care and community contracting, zero-dollar copays for many services and improved trust, satisfaction and population health outcomes. Bryce Heinbaugh, the man behind this coalition, joins us to discuss the transformative power of community owned health plans, and how his work in Ashtabula provides a roadmap for communities around the country to reclaim control from national insurance giants. Find the transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/heinbaugh Mentioned in this episode: our May 2024 episode with Dr. Scott Conard , our June 2025 episode with Darrell Moon , our November 2025 episode with April Kyle and Dr. Doug Eby of Southcentral Foundation's Nuka system . ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/membership .

April 28, 202634 min

Confronting Soaring Emergency Care Costs (feat. Al Lewis)

ER visits account for roughly six percent of health plan spend, with costs rising faster than almost any other hospital service. Why is ER spending is spiraling out of control? And what should we do about it? Al Lewis, founder of The Validation Institute and the gamified health literacy platform Quizzify, has built a career exposing the financial sleights-of-hand many healthcare programs use to drain employer budgets. Lewis joins us to break down how hospitals have transformed federal mandates like the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) into high-margin profit centers through aggressive pricing and "up-coding" tactics. Lewis also shares strategies for individuals and employers to challenge the lack of transparency that often characterizes emergency department charges. Find the transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/lewis ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/membership .

April 14, 202640 min

Winning the Benefits Market Attention Economy (feat. Chris Fisher)

Tired of muddled pitches, point solution fatigue and hours of endless meetings? You're not the only one. Chris Fisher is on a mission to fix one of the biggest bottlenecks in the employee benefits industry — the noise. As the founder of BenefitsAlly, Fisher created the 3x3x3 Challenge, which asks vendors to explain what they do, how they’re different and who they’re for in three minutes. This format levels the playing field for vendors while giving brokers, consultants and business leaders a faster, clearer way to evaluate new ideas. Fisher joins us to discuss the virtues of radical brevity. ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/membership .

March 31, 202633 min

How to Curb Profiteering and Reclaim True Value (feat. Wendell Potter)

The American healthcare system is facing market failure driven by consolidation by industry profiteers. Perhaps no one has a clearer view of how this took place — and what to do about it — than Wendell Potter. Called ‘the ideal whistleblower’ by Time magazine, Potter was a senior executive at insurance giants like Humana and Cigna until a crisis of conscience in 2008. As the Editor-In-Chief of the HEALTH CARE un-covered newsletter, President of the Center for Health and Democracy and bestselling author of Deadly Spin and Nation on the Take , Potter has since dedicated his career to exposing the tactics insurers use to prioritize shareholder returns over patient outcomes. He joins us to discuss the strategies employers, clinicians, policymakers and patients can implement to reclaim a system built on actual value. Find the transcript of this episode at movingtovalue.org/transcript/potter ________ Sign up for our email list. Thank you to our members who make our work possible! As a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the Moving to Value Alliance relies on generous supporters to advance our mission of creating a value-based healthcare ecosystem with high-quality health outcomes at a reasonable cost for plan sponsors and their members. Get involved at movingtovalue.org/membership .