The MarketingKind podcast

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Aug 2026

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About the show

The MarketingKind podcast features conversations that change the way we change the world with Paul Skinner and guests. This series is for marketers, entrepreneurs, business and charity leaders who are interested in learning from diverse perspectives how we can change the stories that guide how we live and work for the better. Each episode delves into how we can use the skills of marketing to address society’s biggest challenges and how we can narrate our way to a better future.

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60 recent

August 10, 202641 min

Can marketing save us from political extremes? with Peter Seymour

Can marketing help rebuild the centre ground of British politics? In this episode Paul Skinner and Anna Mullenneaux, co-founders of MarketingKind, introduce, Peter Seymour, former VP of Marketing & Strategy for Europe at Mondelez. Peter shares his journey from consumer marketing into political marketing, and explores what politicians could learn from the world of brands. Peter’s starting point is simple: politics isn’t just about the facts — it’s about how people feel. Drawing on his experience as a marketer, Peter explains how skills such as understanding your audience, creative storytelling and balancing a P&L can be applied to political marketing. He also shares how he is using these skills to support Centre, a cross-party centrist think tank working to develop practical solutions to some of Britain’s biggest challenges. Peter explores: - Why understanding what people feel is as important as understanding what they think - What politicians can learn from customer insight and brand strategy - Why centrist politicians need to focus less on anger and more on the issues that matter to voters - What recent political communications from the UK's main parties can teach us about effective, and ineffective, marketing - Why the political centre needs a compelling overarching vision - What the far left and far right understand about political storytelling and mobilisation - What More in Common research tells us voters care most about: the cost of living, immigration and community cohesion - How making housing, education, healthcare and energy more affordable will help address inequality This is a fascinating conversation about the intersection of marketing, politics, psychology and social change. We invite all marketers to consider how the skills we use to build brands could also help rebuild trust, find common ground and create a more constructive political conversation. Learn more about Centre think tank here . And learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

July 24, 20261 hr 16 min

Jo Swinson on building an economy that works for everyone

How can we make the "new economy", just "the economy"? In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind , interviews Jo Swinson, former MP and leader of the Liberal Democrats, author of Equal Power and Director of Partners for a New Economy , to explore this question and more. If you're interested in how business, politics and civil society can work together to create a fairer, more sustainable future, this conversation offers fresh thinking, practical insights and reasons for optimism. In this episode We discuss Jo's time in politics (including co-founding a cross-party parliamentary group dedicated to wellbeing economics), why she wrote Equal Power, and her current role as Director of Partners for a New Economy (a philanthropic collective dedicated to funding initiatives transforming economic thinking and practice). Jo shares that although the narratives around wellbeing have gone up and down over time, the last OECD conference on wellbeing, for instance, attracted huge numbers of participants and high level government representatives from around the world. She inspires us with antidotes to polarisation, agency to change gender norms (which are unhelpful for both men and women), and how we might create public demand for significant change. Why listen? This isn't just a conversation about economics. It's about the stories we tell, the systems we create and the choices that shape the future. Whether you're a marketer, business leader, policymaker or changemaker, you'll come away with new perspectives on how we can build an economy that delivers prosperity, wellbeing and opportunity for more people. Continue the conversation Paul highlights the crossover between this discussion and our previous xChanges with Tim Jackson on The Care Economy, Will Hutton on the ‘We society’, Polly Mackenzie on purposeful enterprise and Andy Burnham on devolution to counter the silos of central government. Jo recommends The Dad Shift Of Boys and Men On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century The Economy of Francesco Smartphone Free Childhood

July 15, 202659 min

Dr Victoria Hurth on leadership for a wellbeing economy

What if the biggest barrier to creating a better economy isn't a lack of purpose—but how we define success? "Reforming capitalism begins with redefining success. This is an invitation to rethink what we value, and to govern accordingly — a diagnosis of our economic malaise and a manifesto for a more sustainable future." — Financial Times review of Beyond Profit In this episode we're joined by ⁠Dr Victoria Hurth⁠ , pracacademic, speaker, consultant, Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute of Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and co-author of ⁠ Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy ⁠ . If you're interested in building organisations that create long-term value for people, society and the planet, not just shareholders, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, governance and business success. Victoria explains why purpose alone isn't enough. Real change happens when governance, accountability and decision-making systems are designed to reward outcomes that improve wellbeing alongside financial performance. In this episode, you'll discover: Why redefining organisational success is essential to solving today's biggest social and environmental challenges. How better governance shapes organisational behaviour more effectively than good intentions alone. Why even values-led organisations can lose their way without the right structures and oversight. What a wellbeing economy looks like in practice and what it means for leaders today. How the forthcoming international standard for Purpose-Driven Organisations (ISO 37011), expected in early 2027, could transform organisational governance. Why "business as usual" thinking is holding back innovation and limiting our ability to tackle systemic problems. Whether you're a business leader, marketer, board member or changemaker, you'll come away with practical ideas for leading organisations that create sustainable value for everyone. Resources Join the ISO 37011 LinkedIn community to follow developments around the new Purpose-Driven Organisations standard. Get your copy of Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy . Learn more about Dr Victoria Hurth's work and research . And you can learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

June 23, 20261 hr 13 min

Leadership, Sustainable Banking & Financial Inclusion | Caroline Edwards

What can a bank that was once described as “the bank that nearly broke Britain” teach us about sustainable banking, financial inclusion and responsible leadership? In this episode ⁠Caroline Edwards⁠ , Sustainable Banking Lead for Financial Capability at NatWest Group, joins Lisa Basford, former Head of CSR at IHG, founder of ⁠Good Endeavours⁠ and a founding member of MarketingKind, for a refreshingly honest conversation about leadership, business transformation and creating positive social impact at scale. Caroline shares her leadership journey and reflects on how CSR and responsible business have evolved, how NatWest has changed since the financial crisis, and what sustainable banking, financial capability and financial wellbeing mean for the organisation today. It’s a conversation that goes well beyond corporate purpose. Caroline talks candidly about: - Leading without ego and why humility matters when creating change - Driving positive change inside a large organisation versus through entrepreneurship - The importance of resilience, relationships and finding your allies - How organisations can turn purpose and sustainability into practical action - Why financial inclusion and financial education are fundamental to creating a fairer society - The importance of celebrating differences and creating environments where people can thrive Caroline says that research shows children have already formed many of their money habits by the age of seven. She explains why financial education needs to start early, both at home and in school, and how NatWest and others have helped advocate for greater financial education within the school curriculum. Caroline also shares practical examples of how NatWest is supporting customers, colleagues and partners with financial education, capability and wellbeing, demonstrating how a major financial institution can use its scale to drive meaningful social impact.This is an inspiring and thought-provoking conversation about leadership, sustainable business, financial inclusion and the role organisations can play in creating positive change. Listen hear Caroline’s story, insights and practical lessons for leaders looking to create impact from wherever they sit.

May 31, 202655 min

Nic Marks on Happiness is a Serious Business

In this episode Anna Mullenneaux and Paul Skinner, co-founders of MarketingKind, interview Nic Marks , author of Happiness is a Serious Business , founder of Friday Pulse and creator of the Happy Planet Index. Together with MarketingKind members we explore how to build happy teams and why they drive greater productivity, creativity and success at work. Nic shares that happy teams are twice as likely to be successful as successful teams are to be happy, a powerful reminder that wellbeing is not a “nice to have”, but a serious driver of business performance. Our discussion covers: • The hidden costs of stress, boredom and loneliness at work • Why “okay” may be the most expensive word in business • How leaders can create the conditions for happier and more effective teams Nic shares his Five Ways, which are practical actions every organisation can apply to build happier teams: 1. Connect 2. Be Fair 3. Empower 4. Challenge 5. Inspire You can watch Nic’s new speaker reel here . And if you don't yet have a copy of Happiness is a Serious Business , you can order it here . And you can learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

May 14, 20261 hr 12 min

John Kay on why almost everything we are told about business is wrong

With reason and evidence on your side, why is this not yet mainstream? Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind, interviews Sir John Kay, CBE, to explore why almost everything we have been told about business is wrong and how we can rewrite the story of enterprise. We discuss the ideas in his latest book, The Corporation in the 21st Century , while also touching on topics from a few of his previous works including Obliquity , Radical Uncertainty and Greed is Dead . John argues that the culture shift away from the social movements of the 60s was so strong that it is still holding sway today, even though evidence shows us that shareholder value maximisation is not the best way to grow business value. In the discussion he cites Halifax, ICI and GEC as examples of businesses whose shifts from a stakeholder approach to shareholder maximisation led to their downfalls. John talks about the need to revisit the original purpose of the corporation as a legal vehicle for collective enterprise with sustainable success coming from creating value for customers, employees, and society (not merely extracting it for financiers). John says we need to bring back the sense of responsibility in business and that although we should not be bogged down by excessive legislation, bad managers should go to jail (like they used to). We discuss the changes in capital, dematerialisation, business ethics vs CSR, economic rent, the weight of GDP, the role of social media, AI and how to restore the legitimacy of business. John argues that the 21st-century corporation must be reinvented as a social institution, not a financial asset. You can learn more about John’s work here . And you can look out for John's revised version of Obliquity , which will be coming soon to address obliquity in an age of AI.

May 3, 20261 hr 1 min

Aleksandra Przegalińska on the story of AI

In this episode Anna Mullenneaux and Paul Skinner, co-founders of MarketingKind , explore with Aleksandra Przegalińska why we need to set the story straight on AI. We have seen how unregulated AI hype has created a backlash. As a result we may now have more realistic expectations of what AI can do. But it is changing how we work and how we relate to ourselves and others. And as a society we need to innovate in response. Aleksandra is a futurist, philosopher, author, Vice-Rector at Kozminski University, Senior Researcher at Harvard's Center for Labor and a Just Economy, and she was recently appointed by Donald Tusk to his Future Council for Poland. We cover the impact AI is having on career starts and how university education may need to change to help students better prepare for employment. We explore how AI is reshaping our relationships with ourselves and each other, for instance its use in therapy, tutoring and dating. She has created her own AI digital double, which has been well trained on her slides, lectures and her thinking to help her students to prepare for exams. She shares why AI is a breakthrough tool for marketing insights. People are more honest and open in AI marketing surveys because they don't feel they are being judged. They will in particular be more honest about sharing negative feedback. There are some areas such as IT where we are seeing big increases in efficiency, but there are many others where there is no productivity increase. For instance, a recent study from MIT Sloan Business School showed that most AI trials in businesses are not successful. Her team at Harvard has done a lot of research on how marketers are working collaboratively with AI. Where there is a smart division of labour, with AI being used for research and humans doing the copywriting for instance, it can lead to an impressive 40% spike in productivity. She and her colleague recently used AI as a critical collaborator to provide feedback when writing their book Converging Minds and they found it to be a very valuable tool. In her role on Poland’s Future Council she is bringing a perspective on the differences in the labour market in the US vs Europe. Europe is criticised for moving slowly on AI, but Aleksandra believes this is protecting us to some degree. Europe is gradually building its techstack and this is important for security. Over-reliance on US tech is a threat. Aleksandra encourages her students to take a pluralistic approach. To be open and try and test different AIs, which can trigger creative thinking. She says we need to think critically and be aware that AIs are not benign tools, they have been programmed (each with its own agenda). She wants to see more open forums of discussion around how we are using AI and what has worked and what hasn't worked.

April 21, 20261 hr 9 min

Martin Gutmann on why we celebrate the wrong leaders

In our recent Digital Fireside with Martin Gutmann, bestselling author, speaker, historian and management professor, we explore his book The Unseen Leader: How History Can Help Us Rethink Leadership . Lauren Cooper, Lead Commercial Manager at Clear Score and a member of the MarketingKind community, interviews Martin to discover why we celebrate the wrong leaders, what history can teach us about great leadership and the things we need to actually look out for to identify good leaders. We learn leadership lessons from Homer Simpson. And we explore how our own biases get in the way and why leaders like Trump, who lurch from crisis to crisis in a sensational manner, are considered “great”. We are predisposed to see leadership in people who: ~ Speak more - regardless of what they say ~ Appear confident - regardless of how competent they are ~ Are perpetually busy - regardless of what they are doing This of course creates a toxic culture where people actually doing good work feel overlooked and unmotivated. And this is a self perpetuating cycle. We need to reimagine what good leadership looks like. We need to celebrate those who mitigate crises. And ask ourselves who actually led the team to success? Martin encourages us to focus on leaders who have the right contextual balance between: 1) Confidence and Humility 2) Values and Pragmatism 3) Vision and the Mundane We also cover Shackleton-related hate mail and the importance of storytelling and self-promotion. Martin’s reading recommendations include: The Sociology of Work by Keith Grint Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? by Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic Spencer Harrison's recent article in The Atlantic - https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7125163/2026/03/20/nba-leadership-culture-mistakes-warriors/ The Culture Map by Erin Meyer Learn more about Martin’s work here . Buy a copy of The Unseen Leader here . And learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

March 24, 202619 min

JiaJia Smith on when purpose meets design

"Most purpose-driven brands make the same mistakes. They lead with themselves. It's what they believe, what they want to see, and what they stand for. It feels internal or inward facing. And they forgot this one thing that changes everything, which is 'what does the audience feel?'." In this episode Anna Mullenneaux and Paul Skinner, co-founders of MarketingKind explore with Jiajia Smith , brand design expert, what happens when purpose meets good design. This edit shares JiaJia's introduction to the session and part of the group discussion, but most of the discussion, where we all shared our own examples of good design and explored why they work, was for live participants only. JiaJia kicks off the conversation by exploring the definition of design and saying: Purpose fails when it just stays internal. We need a process for how your purpose can connect hard with your audience. Purpose gives us direction. Then design translates that purpose into something the people can actually experience. Something they can see, touch, smell, move through. When people experience something well crafted, they feel it. That feeling, whatever it is whether it is connection, trust, inspiration, belonging, is what shifts behaviour. And that is how brands use good design to create change. JiaJia shares visual design examples from: - Black Lives Matter - This Girl Can - Extinction Rebellion - And the Fearless Girl, a bronze sculpture by Kristen Visbal facing the iconic Charging Bull in Manhattan’s Financial District. We also discuss design elements from the websites of: - Greenpeace - Charity Water - WWF - And Patagonia. And we explore how design helps brands build trust, clarity, emotional resonance and memorability.

March 13, 20261 hr 13 min

Jitske Kramer on navigating tricky times

Tricksters are necessary to challenge the status quo. But when we elevate them to leaders, we risk ending up with 'Jack Sparrows as CEOs and Pinocchios as political leaders'. In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind , interviews Jitske Kramer , corporate anthropologist, speaker and author of nine bestselling and award-winning books, about the ideas in her latest book Tricky Times: Navigating the Messy Middle of Change . Jitske argues that after decades of pursuing limitless growth, we’re finally confronting the reality that limits do exist. The global order is shifting, and we’re in what anthropologists call a liminal phase, the messy, uncomfortable middle between an old system that no longer works and a new one that hasn’t fully emerged. And there’s no shortcut through it. Transformation requires this period of not knowing. That’s why leadership matters more than ever right now. But it’s also why leadership is so difficult. Many leaders are deeply invested in the old world order, so even when it’s clearly failing, letting go takes courage. During the conversation we explored the role of the trickster, the archetype that bends rules and tests boundaries. Tricksters are important. They challenge and expose weaknesses in the system. But there’s a risk. When societies start to celebrate tricksters as heroes, we sometimes end up putting them in charge and that’s when a trickster culture can take hold. As Jitske warns, tricksters don’t just play, they have a playbook. Big promises that don’t hold up. Simple scapegoats for complex problems. Narratives designed to provoke emotion rather than truth. As she puts it: “Don’t be fooled by big promises. And watch for the old human trick of the scapegoat, ‘because of the refugees, we don’t have houses’. It’s bullshit, and we should call it out.” The challenge for all of us is to resist the seduction of those narratives and instead create space for honest, difficult conversations. Because tricksters have always existed. But in a world of digital platforms and limitless AI, the trickster playbook has become far more powerful and far more dangerous.