The MarketingKind podcast

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Oct 2026

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About the show

The MarketingKind podcast features conversations that change the way we change the world with Paul Skinner and guests. This series is for marketers, entrepreneurs, business and charity leaders who are interested in learning from diverse perspectives how we can change the stories that guide how we live and work for the better. Each episode delves into how we can use the skills of marketing to address society’s biggest challenges and how we can narrate our way to a better future.

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60 recent

October 20, 20261 hr 12 min

Nick Hanauer on Market Humanism

Are you still seeing the world through an old paradigm? In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind and author of Collaborative Advantage and The Purpose Upgrade , interviews Nick Hanauer, billionaire entrepreneur and Amazon’s first investor, to explore his campaign to replace Neoliberalism with Market Humanism, a new economic paradigm designed to increase human flourishing. Nick describes the two forces that are holding back change: 1) Rich shitbags - the self interest of people who will not benefit from higher wages 2) And everyone else who thinks they are right Nick says that Neoliberalism has infiltrated our thinking on almost everything, from how we run our businesses to how governments believe they can respond to our greatest challenges, and yet, the ideas that make up neoclassical economics were developed a hundred years ago or more and have no evidence to support them. Together with Oxford Economist Eric Beinhocker, Nick advocates for Market Humanism as a new full stack paradigm that integrates the latest thinking and research on human behaviour, economics and public policy. Part of Market Humanism is Middle Out economics, which shows that growth and job creation originate from a strong, thriving middle class rather than from tax cuts or wealth concentration at the top. As Paul states in his introduction: “If you wanted to assemble a dream team to champion the new economy, you’d likely want an investor, a successful business leader, an agent of social change, an eloquent advocate and a curator in chief to bring people together. Nick appears to be the entire team.” Nick points out that our superpower as humans is our ability to cooperate at scale, not our ability to compete. "Lions are very competitive, but they can’t build guitars. That is why humans dominate the planet." Nick describes prosperity as the accumulation of solutions to human problems. With Market Humanism, Nick says, we are uniting moral and economic concerns. The most harmful idea of neoliberalism is that there is the trade off between a fairer society and a more prosperous one. Justice enables trust, trust enables cooperation and cooperation is where prosperity comes from. And trust is the best predictor of how prosperous a society will be. There will always be some bad actors, but if you have a paradigm that works for the majority, then bad actors can be isolated. Our economic paradigm influences how we see the world and our ability to meaningfully address our challenges as a result. Download your free copy of Markets Built for Humans here . Subscribe to Nick's substack here and listen to the Pitchfork Economics podcast here .

September 25, 202659 min

Why we need UK digital sovereignty now with Jim Killock

In this episode Anna Mullenneaux and Paul Skinner, co-founders of MarketingKind , interview Jim Killock, Executive Director of Open Rights Group , to discuss the case for UK digital sovereignty. Through Open Rights Group, Jim has been campaigning for digital protection and rights since 2009. Before joining Open Rights Group, Jim worked as External Communications Co-ordinator of the Green Party. And he was a leading figure in the campaign to elect their first party leader, Caroline Lucas MP. In this discussion we answer: - What is digital sovereignty? - Why is it vitally important now? - What can we do about it as individuals, marketers, businesses and as a nation? - What can we learn from countries like Germany, France and Denmark? - Are there useful parallels with the climate movement? Jim recommends exploring your own digital independence from Big Tech using the website DI.Day . Jim also recommends reading Tim Wu’s The Curse of Bigness , which covers how the US tech giants are attempting to repeat history (like the monopolies in Germany before the second world war). You can read Open Rights Group’s report - Tech Giants and Giant Slayers: The Case for Digital Sovereignty and The Digital Commons here .

September 18, 20261 hr 15 min

Kate Pickett on building a Good Society

“Vested interests. And lack of political will.” That’s what Kate Pickett believes is holding us back from taking needed action to tackle inequality and build a good society. In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind, interviews Kate Pickett, OBE, bestselling author of The Spirit Level and Professor of Epidemiology at the University of York, to explore the ideas in her latest book The Good Society: And How We Make It . The Good Society builds on Kate’s previous work in The Spirit Level and Inner Level to set out how we can achieve a society that prioritises equality and wellbeing. One that’s economic policies drive higher standards in education, health and social care and criminal justice for all. She shares how inequality is linked to many of the things we think of as a good society. It is linked to health and wellbeing, education, social cohesion, and how we approach the environment. And many political scientists are currently studying the impacts of inequality on democracy. One of things that has most surprised people from Kate’s research has been that even people at the higher end of the income scale or education scale are negatively impacted by living in a country that has high inequality. Though, of course, those at the bottom of these scales are the most impacted. Kate is optimistic about the potential for the new proposed International Panel on Inequality (IPI) as a new global expert body similar to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Kate proposes a new government body, like SAGE, with a panel of social scientists to advise on policies that can help tackle inequality. They would be able to weigh up the evidence and costs of proposed policies to help overcome the gap between what the evidence tells us and how to take action on it. She also believes we should be having big public conversations now about how to survive the shifting labour market and all of the other societal changes that are happening rapidly due to AI. She says we need to build consensus around what we want the future to look like and citizen assemblies are one way to do that. This can be done at a local, regional or national level. Many of the ideas in the book would require a bigger state, at least in the short term, to achieve and Kate concedes that trust in politics would need to improve before that was likely to happen. She says that a bigger state could be more cost effective. Underinvestment has created expensive problems to solve, so we’re constantly trying to patch up the many problems we’ve created. A lot of the stats that she and Richard were interested in in The Spirit Level actually started to go down during the austerity years, such as life expectancy and infant mortality (quite an important marker of the quality of health provision). “I don’t think we need a nanny state or a bigger state for everything, but if we look around the world at the things we would like to have, better education, better health, better social care, those are bigger states.” As individuals, Kate says that anything we do as active citizens is helpful. It can be as simple as voting or it could be our activities through our work, our volunteering or our conversations with family and friends. She advised us to spend more time with people who’ve had different life experiences to our own. If you have not yet read it, you can pick up a copy of The Good Society here .

September 14, 202630 min

Enterprise in an Everything Emergency with Paul Skinner

In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind and the Agency of the Future and author of Collaborative Advantage and The Purpose Upgrade , sets out his take on “Enterprise in an Everything Emergency” from HR Week Lithuania in September 2025. The title may sound provocative, but Paul believes it is a valid description of the environment in which our organisations now have to operate. For anyone in doubt, consider the state of global conflict, our rapidly changing climate and the apocalyptic questions currently explored in the media with regards to the risks posed by AI. The temptation, when faced with constant disruption, is to focus on the next thing to manage: The next crisis. The next technology. The next market shock. The next set of changed expectations. But perhaps a more fundamental question is: what is missing, the lack of which is giving rise to these things in the first place? If we spend all our time fighting fires we risk becoming good at surviving the short term, while failing to ever lay the groundwork for a truly resilient longer term. The challenges we face in business today go beyond solving a series of crises. They reach far more deeply into the nature of how enterprises can flourish in today’s disrupted macro environment. And this epsiode contains Paul’s vision for how to address this.

August 10, 202641 min

Can marketing save us from political extremes? with Peter Seymour

Can marketing help rebuild the centre ground of British politics? In this episode Paul Skinner and Anna Mullenneaux, co-founders of MarketingKind, introduce, Peter Seymour, former VP of Marketing & Strategy for Europe at Mondelez. Peter shares his journey from consumer marketing into political marketing, and explores what politicians could learn from the world of brands. Peter’s starting point is simple: politics isn’t just about the facts — it’s about how people feel. Drawing on his experience as a marketer, Peter explains how skills such as understanding your audience, creative storytelling and balancing a P&L can be applied to political marketing. He also shares how he is using these skills to support Centre, a cross-party centrist think tank working to develop practical solutions to some of Britain’s biggest challenges. Peter explores: - Why understanding what people feel is as important as understanding what they think - What politicians can learn from customer insight and brand strategy - Why centrist politicians need to focus less on anger and more on the issues that matter to voters - What recent political communications from the UK's main parties can teach us about effective, and ineffective, marketing - Why the political centre needs a compelling overarching vision - What the far left and far right understand about political storytelling and mobilisation - What More in Common research tells us voters care most about: the cost of living, immigration and community cohesion - How making housing, education, healthcare and energy more affordable will help address inequality This is a fascinating conversation about the intersection of marketing, politics, psychology and social change. We invite all marketers to consider how the skills we use to build brands could also help rebuild trust, find common ground and create a more constructive political conversation. Learn more about Centre think tank here . And learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

July 24, 20261 hr 16 min

Jo Swinson on building an economy that works for everyone

How can we make the "new economy", just "the economy"? In this episode Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind , interviews Jo Swinson, former MP and leader of the Liberal Democrats, author of Equal Power and Director of Partners for a New Economy , to explore this question and more. If you're interested in how business, politics and civil society can work together to create a fairer, more sustainable future, this conversation offers fresh thinking, practical insights and reasons for optimism. In this episode We discuss Jo's time in politics (including co-founding a cross-party parliamentary group dedicated to wellbeing economics), why she wrote Equal Power, and her current role as Director of Partners for a New Economy (a philanthropic collective dedicated to funding initiatives transforming economic thinking and practice). Jo shares that although the narratives around wellbeing have gone up and down over time, the last OECD conference on wellbeing, for instance, attracted huge numbers of participants and high level government representatives from around the world. She inspires us with antidotes to polarisation, agency to change gender norms (which are unhelpful for both men and women), and how we might create public demand for significant change. Why listen? This isn't just a conversation about economics. It's about the stories we tell, the systems we create and the choices that shape the future. Whether you're a marketer, business leader, policymaker or changemaker, you'll come away with new perspectives on how we can build an economy that delivers prosperity, wellbeing and opportunity for more people. Continue the conversation Paul highlights the crossover between this discussion and our previous xChanges with Tim Jackson on The Care Economy, Will Hutton on the ‘We society’, Polly Mackenzie on purposeful enterprise and Andy Burnham on devolution to counter the silos of central government. Jo recommends The Dad Shift Of Boys and Men On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons From the Twentieth Century The Economy of Francesco Smartphone Free Childhood

July 15, 202659 min

Dr Victoria Hurth on leadership for a wellbeing economy

What if the biggest barrier to creating a better economy isn't a lack of purpose—but how we define success? "Reforming capitalism begins with redefining success. This is an invitation to rethink what we value, and to govern accordingly — a diagnosis of our economic malaise and a manifesto for a more sustainable future." — Financial Times review of Beyond Profit In this episode we're joined by ⁠Dr Victoria Hurth⁠ , pracacademic, speaker, consultant, Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute of Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and co-author of ⁠ Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy ⁠ . If you're interested in building organisations that create long-term value for people, society and the planet, not just shareholders, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, governance and business success. Victoria explains why purpose alone isn't enough. Real change happens when governance, accountability and decision-making systems are designed to reward outcomes that improve wellbeing alongside financial performance. In this episode, you'll discover: Why redefining organisational success is essential to solving today's biggest social and environmental challenges. How better governance shapes organisational behaviour more effectively than good intentions alone. Why even values-led organisations can lose their way without the right structures and oversight. What a wellbeing economy looks like in practice and what it means for leaders today. How the forthcoming international standard for Purpose-Driven Organisations (ISO 37011), expected in early 2027, could transform organisational governance. Why "business as usual" thinking is holding back innovation and limiting our ability to tackle systemic problems. Whether you're a business leader, marketer, board member or changemaker, you'll come away with practical ideas for leading organisations that create sustainable value for everyone. Resources Join the ISO 37011 LinkedIn community to follow developments around the new Purpose-Driven Organisations standard. Get your copy of Beyond Profit: Purpose-Driven Leadership for a Wellbeing Economy . Learn more about Dr Victoria Hurth's work and research . And you can learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

June 23, 20261 hr 13 min

Leadership, Sustainable Banking & Financial Inclusion with Caroline Edwards

What can a bank that was once described as “the bank that nearly broke Britain” teach us about sustainable banking, financial inclusion and responsible leadership? In this episode ⁠Caroline Edwards⁠ , Sustainable Banking Lead for Financial Capability at NatWest Group, joins Lisa Basford, former Head of CSR at IHG, founder of ⁠Good Endeavours⁠ and a founding member of MarketingKind, for a refreshingly honest conversation about leadership, business transformation and creating positive social impact at scale. Caroline shares her leadership journey and reflects on how CSR and responsible business have evolved, how NatWest has changed since the financial crisis, and what sustainable banking, financial capability and financial wellbeing mean for the organisation today. It’s a conversation that goes well beyond corporate purpose. Caroline talks candidly about: - Leading without ego and why humility matters when creating change - Driving positive change inside a large organisation versus through entrepreneurship - The importance of resilience, relationships and finding your allies - How organisations can turn purpose and sustainability into practical action - Why financial inclusion and financial education are fundamental to creating a fairer society - The importance of celebrating differences and creating environments where people can thrive Caroline says that research shows children have already formed many of their money habits by the age of seven. She explains why financial education needs to start early, both at home and in school, and how NatWest and others have helped advocate for greater financial education within the school curriculum. Caroline also shares practical examples of how NatWest is supporting customers, colleagues and partners with financial education, capability and wellbeing, demonstrating how a major financial institution can use its scale to drive meaningful social impact.This is an inspiring and thought-provoking conversation about leadership, sustainable business, financial inclusion and the role organisations can play in creating positive change. Listen hear Caroline’s story, insights and practical lessons for leaders looking to create impact from wherever they sit.

May 31, 202655 min

Nic Marks on Happiness is a Serious Business

In this episode Anna Mullenneaux and Paul Skinner, co-founders of MarketingKind, interview Nic Marks , author of Happiness is a Serious Business , founder of Friday Pulse and creator of the Happy Planet Index. Together with MarketingKind members we explore how to build happy teams and why they drive greater productivity, creativity and success at work. Nic shares that happy teams are twice as likely to be successful as successful teams are to be happy, a powerful reminder that wellbeing is not a “nice to have”, but a serious driver of business performance. Our discussion covers: • The hidden costs of stress, boredom and loneliness at work • Why “okay” may be the most expensive word in business • How leaders can create the conditions for happier and more effective teams Nic shares his Five Ways, which are practical actions every organisation can apply to build happier teams: 1. Connect 2. Be Fair 3. Empower 4. Challenge 5. Inspire You can watch Nic’s new speaker reel here . And if you don't yet have a copy of Happiness is a Serious Business , you can order it here . And you can learn more about MarketingKind membership here .

May 14, 20261 hr 12 min

John Kay on why almost everything we are told about business is wrong

With reason and evidence on your side, why is this not yet mainstream? Paul Skinner, founder of MarketingKind, interviews Sir John Kay, CBE, to explore why almost everything we have been told about business is wrong and how we can rewrite the story of enterprise. We discuss the ideas in his latest book, The Corporation in the 21st Century , while also touching on topics from a few of his previous works including Obliquity , Radical Uncertainty and Greed is Dead . John argues that the culture shift away from the social movements of the 60s was so strong that it is still holding sway today, even though evidence shows us that shareholder value maximisation is not the best way to grow business value. In the discussion he cites Halifax, ICI and GEC as examples of businesses whose shifts from a stakeholder approach to shareholder maximisation led to their downfalls. John talks about the need to revisit the original purpose of the corporation as a legal vehicle for collective enterprise with sustainable success coming from creating value for customers, employees, and society (not merely extracting it for financiers). John says we need to bring back the sense of responsibility in business and that although we should not be bogged down by excessive legislation, bad managers should go to jail (like they used to). We discuss the changes in capital, dematerialisation, business ethics vs CSR, economic rent, the weight of GDP, the role of social media, AI and how to restore the legitimacy of business. John argues that the 21st-century corporation must be reinvented as a social institution, not a financial asset. You can learn more about John’s work here . And you can look out for John's revised version of Obliquity , which will be coming soon to address obliquity in an age of AI.