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Apr 2025

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World’s Stickiest Learning: We are the soft skills training provider, partnering with clients that are frustrated by their people returning from training courses and then doing nothing differently. Our clients choose us because we achieve behavioural change through our unique training method, sticky learning ®.

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April 24, 2025

Alexander McWilliam – Presentation Anxiety | MBM Expert Interview

Performance Psychology Consultant, Dr. Alexander McWilliam, Talks Presentation Anxiety and Performing Under Pressure with MBM CEO, Darren A. Smith. Join Darren as he asks; 'What makes Dr. McWilliam the best person to talk Presentation Anxiety?'. With perhaps the only PhD, globally, that specialises in why and how we feel nervous when public speaking, Dr. McWilliam has the utmost knowledge and expertise on how to combat presentation anxiety. Watch or listen to the podcast episode to experience Darren and Alexander exploring the ins and outs of this subject. Click the Image Above to Watch the Full Episode on YouTube. Read The Full Episode Transcription Below: Darren A. Smith Welcome to the world's stickiest learning. My name's Darren Smith, and more importantly, I'm here with our guest. Thank you for coming. Alex, how are you? Alexander McWilliam I'm very good. How are you doing? Darren A. Smith Hey, I'm good. I'm good. We've both got our funky shirts on and striped. You're in check. We better not go to the same party. We'll clash. But hey, we're good. We're good. Let's get back to you. We're going to talk about presenting and about being nervous and speaking up and those types of things. We'll get to that in the nicest possible way. Why should we listen to you when you talk about this topic? Alexander McWilliam Well, we said my name is Alex, which is true, but my full title is Doctor Alexander McWilliam. I've got a PhD in public speaking anxiety and performing under pressure. To my knowledge, the only person in the UK potentially globally with a PhD specialising in this field, and I've been coaching presentation skills confidence when presenting for almost decades, so a wealth of experience. It makes me feel old, but. An expert in the field of anxiety and performing under pressure. Darren A. Smith Two decades we haven't even got any grey hair. What's that about? OK, so you're the only one with the PhD potentially in the world in this. So just tell me about that. How long did you study for to get this? Alexander McWilliam So my PhD took 1/ years in total, so it was three years. Multiple studies I looked at AI looked at all the interventions available for public speaking anxiety into reduction. That was one area of study. I developed a questionnaire to help identify specific public speaking concerns because there's so many in the world. But actually when we're coaching, we need to identify what it is specifically. Darren A. Smith Yeah. Alexander McWilliam And then a last study was using acting and improvisation to help reduce public speaking anxiety. So over the three years, there was all of these studies going on with multiple participants trying to figure out why they get anxious. How do we overcome that? And as there's so many interventions available, can something alternative, like acting in improv, which hasn't seen many mainstream sort of interventions, you see CBT, you see exposure therapy, things like that. But acting in improv, that was the unique route I wanted to go down and bring on my own expertise of being an actor and being an improviser. Darren A. Smith Yeah. Yep. Alexander McWilliam With that so 3 1/2 years of lots and lots of studying, lots of reviewing, lots of writing, and if anyone's doing it, if anyone's done it, they know that it is a mammoth of a task. But so rewarding once it's done. Darren A. Smith Impressive. OK, so 3 1/2 years doing that and and just would you just paint a picture for us? So what did you do? You did some research, not some. You did research. You looked at research you practise it. Is that we did for 3 1/2 years. Alexander McWilliam I read a lot of papers looking at theories, different theories from sports psychology, from psychology, looking at why people fail to perform when it when it matters, and what's happening in our bodies and our brains when anxiety kicks in, fears, anxieties, how we develop those. So looking across the board over the last years worth of literature, looking at what interventions are available, which ones are effective and which ones aren't effective because again. There's a lot of interventions available. People go, Oh my God, there's so many things I could try and do to reduce anxiety. What works? Well, luckily, I published a paper earlier this year which identified which ones were good, which ones weren't, and how we overcome them. And also, it's been a while developing this questionnaire to identify those specific worries and having to test it, validate it. All of those things with thousands of, I think we ended up having around participants to validate this questionnaire. So it's not that because. Darren A. Smith OK. Alexander McWilliam You get a questionnaire, you know the online ones are going. Ah, what's my biggest worry then? You know, it could be anything's anyone's written that. So we took a lot of time doing that. And then also the intervention testing out a six week improvisation course to go. OK. If we got people in over six weeks once a week for a few hours, can we use those techniques to do that? And then we have to do all the steps work which again. Darren A. Smith Yeah. Alexander McWilliam I've I've never learned stats when I was younger, so that was a new area of statistics of how to do. Which again is a mammoth task of maths and data and analysis, but again very rewarding, but a very complicated at the same time. So three years of lots of that and then presenting at conferences, writing papers, editing that took a long time because a my thesis I think was around , words. Trying. Yeah. Trying to get and that's a short one that's that's quite a short version some people's thesis. Darren A. Smith Yeah. OK. Off. Alexander McWilliam Are , words like a lot of history thesis? Are there like hundreds of thousands of what? Not hundreds, but maybe ,? So trying to make it so that it was rather. And not waffling is the other things there's such. It's like there's so much content you could talk about and try to go one of it. What am I refining it? And actually I found during my PhD in the first six months, actually I started coming in with one idea and then six months later, that idea sort of change and amalgamated. And then it kept changing. I think when someone does a PhD, they realise that actually they start with one idea and it does. Darren A. Smith Yeah. Alexander McWilliam Modify a lot and for the better as well. Darren A. Smith Yeah, makes sense. That makes sense. So over the next minutes, however long you and I are going to talk, I'd like to talk longer. People are going to understand why they're nervous when they present and how they can overcome it is that is that simply what we're going to get because that's powerful, right? OK. All right. Fabulous. Fabulous. OK, well, I'm intrigued. So over the next to minutes, I've got four or five questions that we've pulled from Google search that most people ask around this topic. Alexander McWilliam Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Darren A. Smith And then I think at the end of it, you've got a really handy mnemonic, a really handy takeaway for us to have. Is that right? Alexander McWilliam Yep, got one. It's called steady and I'll let you people can still go. Oh, what's that about? Darren A. Smith They've been treated us now. I like that. So that's the the culmination of , words. Your thesis down to things. Alexander McWilliam Yeah, essentially. Darren A. Smith All right. OK. All right. Well, I'm keen. I'm going to kick off with our first question, if that's all right. Alexander McWilliam Yeah. Darren A. Smith How do I not feel nervous or panicked before presentation is the first question most people are asking how do I not feel nervous and panicked? Alexander McWilliam But the first thing to challenge that is go nerves aren't a bad thing. If we're nervous, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It can actually be quite facilitative to our performance. We need it to energise us. If the issue comes, it become too nervous. It overwhelms us and it impacts our performance in a negative way. So that's the first challenge. Nerves aren't necessarily a bad thing. Darren A. Smith Yep. Alexander McWilliam And also and I'll talk about this later, our body doesn't necessarily know when we go. Oh, I'm feeling nervous. Is it nerves? Because actually. There's a famous study where actually they reframed, oh, physiologically, nerves and excitement have the same physiological response. My heart rate goes, my handshake, I feel sweaty. The only differentiation is your mindset. When we're nervous, I'm worrying about the worst case scenario. When I'm excited, I'm dreaming out at the best case scenario. So you, I'd always recommend you reframe that and go, actually. OK, I'm feeling this is it nerves. Well, OK. I don't really know what it's. I could be nervous about, but maybe. Darren A. Smith I love that. Yeah, yeah. Alexander McWilliam Excited. I'm excited because I get to present to my peers and share my idea because the the nervousness comes from the unknown and the ambiguity. I'm nervous all about something. What's going to go wrong? However, I'm excited because I get to share my research and the audience get to share my story. That's why I'm excited by I use that when I go to the dentist. I hate dentists. I'm nervous, but I go. I'm so excited they get to clean my teeth. I'm so excited they get to do this. And it it calms me down a bit. So I think nerves isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's only when it becomes too overwhelming. But and there are in that steady Muni, we're going to talk about how do we sort of calm down before that kind of p

March 28, 202520 min

Clare Walker – Personal Values Coaching Cards | Expert Interview

Discover the Personal Values Coaching Card deck with Expert, Clare Walker Dive into a great discussion between Clare Walker, expert in Personal Values and Darren A. Smith, MBM CEO. Here, the pair talk about why Clare is perfect author of this deck, due to her expertise, training and extensive career experience, how the deck works and what you can do to improve your coaching whilst utilising Coaching Cards. Watch the full podcast on YouTube by clicking the image above. Read the full Personal Values podcast transcript below: Clare Walker, Vodafone 0:04 Yeah. Darren A. Smith 0:06 OK, so the whole thing is probably, I don't know, 3-4 minutes, 5 minutes. You know, it's not a long video. It's as much as you want to say. Really the idea is we're helping people to understand and use them. Clare Walker, Vodafone 0:20 Well, no, I'm not. I'm gonna go the personal values. They just look at the opposite way around for the simple reason I built those as very bespoke, not bespoke. But yeah, I built them quite bespoke. Darren A. Smith 0:34 OK. Clare Walker, Vodafone 0:36 Yeah. OK. Let me go personal wrong. Darren A. Smith 0:40 So the first question coming up after I ask you who you are and what you do is what are these personal values cards all right. So we're just doing the what the what the why in the how. OK. So let me make sure you're OK with that. Clare Walker, Vodafone 0:58 Let me completely blame and just push my credit First off. I'm gonna be on video. Darren A. Smith 1:05 And then afterwards I got a different question for you. Nothing to do with the video, just something I've had your opinion on. OK. All right. I'm ready when you are. Clare Walker, Vodafone 1:13 OK. I'm ready now. Darren A. Smith 1:20 Talks, it looks real. It's good. Love the dunks. Hi, my name is Darren Smith. I'm from the world's stickiest learning. I'm here with Claire Walker from Vodafone. Claire, how you doing? Clare Walker, Vodafone 1:33 I'm very well. Thank you, Darren. Darren A. Smith 1:35 And Claire, what do you do at Vodafone? Clare Walker, Vodafone 1:38 I am the coaching and mentoring lead, so it means that I look after all things for external coaching, internal coaching, coaching resources and also training people how to have a coaching mindset as opposed to be coaches. Darren A. Smith 1:53 OK. And how long have you been doing coaching? Not necessarily just a Vodafone, but how long have you been doing coaching things for? Clare Walker, Vodafone 2:02 I started my professional or my my more structured career back in 2016, but actually through conversations and interviews like this, I realised I've pretty much been coaching all of my life. Darren A. Smith 2:14 Love that, love it. Love it. OK, OK, now we're here talking about these coaching card things. We have a number of coaching cards and you kindly collaborated with us on a particular deck. So I'm going to ask you a few questions to share with the folks that are watching. What are these things? Why did you create it and how to use them? So let's start with the first question. What did you create? What are they? Clare Walker, Vodafone 2:41 I created a deck that our personal values cards and I have them all here. Darren A. Smith 2:47 Oh yeah. Clare Walker, Vodafone 2:48 And there are 80 of them that help people to understand what their drivers, they're motivators, their way of being is. So by going through these you can really start to investigate what it is that's inside you that can. When you look at them and investigate them can cause less friction for you and greater understanding of not just who you are, but who the people around you are as well. Darren A. Smith 3:16 OK, so these are coaching cards. They look like they're the size of a playing card. OK, there's eighty of them and they come in a little box and their personal values. All right, got it. Got it. Could you show us a couple just so we can see what's written on these things? Clare Walker, Vodafone 3:32 Yes, absolutely. So each one of the cards has got a different word on it. So you can see this collaboration, there is tolerance, pleasure, passion. And as we go through the deck, they're then going to belonging dependability. Duty. Creativity. So there's 80 different words on here that when you look at them, they're not the top five or four or five words that you would normally choose as being your values. People normally say things like honesty and integrity and fairness and authenticity. This is a a bigger pattern, goes deeper and when people go through this, they choose cards that they've never really considered as being their values, but suddenly understand that actually it's really important to them to have fun or to be empathic or to belong. Darren A. Smith 4:19 OK, fabulous. And why did you create them or what problem do they solve? Clare Walker, Vodafone 4:27 Yeah, they I created them because I've been using them for some time. I mean, we always through coaching, we will ask people questions such as you know which of your values do you feel has been restricted here or which of your values could come into play here that could help you collaborate with this person or through your coaching reach your goal. And so when we started looking deeper into how you know, how we could look at these and how how we could get a range of cards. We started to really understand that when. Give people these and they start pulling them out in front of them. There are certain cards that can resonate with them and they will pick one up. I had one person picked it up and burst into tears because suddenly this time they realised it meant something to them. They'd never considered it or they haven't considered it in that way. And so it's interesting. We ask people, you know, to choose their set of 10 from this deck and out of that set of 10, you know, that's their top 10 for the day. But we asked them to to lay 10 out of this pack of 18. Darren A. Smith 5:22 Oh, OK. Clare Walker, Vodafone 5:30 The ones that resonate most with them, not the ones they think they should have. Everyone thinks I should have family and I should have love and I should have. They actually go with the ones that I didn't have family in mind. It doesn't mean that I don't value them, it's just their omnipresent. I didn't have to have them in my top ten, but people then lay out their top ten and start to recognise that actually the things they thought they valued might not be at the top of their list. People who say money, yeah, value money. Darren A. Smith 5:43 Yep. Yep, OK. Clare Walker, Vodafone 5:56 But actually realise they have none left at the end of the month. What they recognise is that further up the list are things like social interactions and. Aesthetics, so they may instead of valuing money at the top of their list, what they may value is going out and socialising with their friends, which is why they have no money. But it's more important to them at the end of the day, to have those connections with their friends than it is to have money in the bank. So you start to really see where you put your values and how you can. Darren A. Smith 6:17 Gotcha. Gotcha. Clare Walker, Vodafone 6:29 Ensure that you give focus and energy to the ones that are going to help you reach your goals. As well. Darren A. Smith 6:35 OK. And you start to touch on there the how they work, so you've got these 80 questions, you've got a bunch of folks in a room and you've asked them to pick 10 each and then just give us an idea because you've done done this a number of times, what happens? You mentioned the lady bursting into tears, but what else happens with those values cards? Clare Walker, Vodafone 6:54 Yeah, yeah, that was in a 1:00 to 1:00. So it wasn't too out there in the team. So fortunately we we sat and talked, talked through what it meant to and might have that reaction. OK. So when we do this with teams, we get people to choose their top ten and we get them to lay them out on the table. And then what? We ask people to do is look at that 10 and choose the one that feels most important to them, the one that really resonates with them, the one that's probably non negotiable. Darren A. Smith 6:58 Ah, OK. Clare Walker, Vodafone 7:20 That they don't want to live ever without. It's it's the one. And actually the one that they choose is normally the one that underpins everything else. Darren A. Smith 7:21 OK. Clare Walker, Vodafone 7:28 So if it's something like honesty or trust or respect, you'll find all family or inner peace. You'll find that everything else that they then talk about sits underneath that and relates to it. And So what we get people to do is choose their number one and then what we do is we ask everybody in the team. To say what their card is, what that means to them, so really to give the definition of what that is for them. But then why that is so important to them? Darren A. Smith 7:58 Of course. Yep, Yep. Clare Walker, Vodafone 7:58 Some people will say family, my wife, my kids. They're really important to me. And you know, because they are my life and I do everything with them. Other people will look at the same card and say family. That's the people that are around me all day everyday. And it's not just the people who are blood related. Family to me are those people who are in my work team. They in my church that are in my my social group. That's what. So it sometimes goes bigger. And we had one guy who talked about wealth. He picked up wealth as he's number one and some of the guys on the team kind of went. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Wealth. And money bags and he said no, no, I don't mean that. What I mean by wealth being #1 is that I know that I

January 14, 2025

The Psychology of Persuasion with Christopher | Expert Interview

Master the Art of Persuasion With Expert Christopher Phelps, Us Ceo of Cialdini Institute Christopher Phelps and Darren Smith dive deep into the psychology of persuasion. Explore the powerful principles that can help anyone improve their persuasion skills. From understanding Robert Cialdini's six principles to actionable insights on how to apply persuasion in sales and business, this conversation is a must-watch for anyone looking to influence effectively and ethically. Click the image above to watch the video on YouTube You Can Read the Full Transcript Below: Darren A Smith: Welcome to the World Stickiest Learning. I'm Darren Smith, and I'm here with Chris Phelps. Chris, how are you doing? Christopher Phelps: Very good, Darren. How you doing? Darren A Smith: Hey, I'm good. You've just managed to solve a problem for me where I've got a stream of light from my light and, and Chris was saying, we'll put a post-it note sort of here, and you've just cracked it. It's been a problem for two years. We're off to a great start. Darren A Smith: So in this podcast we are talking about persuasion, influence, those types of soft skills. I'd like to start with a question, which is why should we and the people listening and watching listen to you when we talk about persuasion? Christopher Phelps: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so just to give you a little bit of my background, uh, I was very fortunate, uh, and unfortunate at the same time. So I'm a dentist, uh, by trade. Uh, grew multiple dental practices in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I live on the East coast. And, um, had made this bold move of selling two of my best offices, uh, to free up my partners to be happier elsewhere, as I like to say, and took over my two struggling practices, the worst ones, so I could get back to being me, right? Get back to doing it my way. And I felt like if, if, if I could put my, all my efforts into those two baskets, so to speak, that I could do more with those two offices than what I was being held back with, with the four, right? Darren A Smith: Okay. Christopher Phelps: And so when I did that and I made that move, I then realised maybe that wasn't so smart, because now you're stuck with not the ones that were making money, the ones that are costing you money. , uh, one of which was a brand new dental practice that was costing me 70,000 a month, us in expenses, but only taking in 35,000 a month in revenue. So you don't have to be a math expert to realise that's not a good check to write each month, right? So, but what it was was a powerful motivator for me to stop, uh, procrastinating on the problems of these practices or ignoring them, right? And, and deal with them. The problem was I just didn't know what the root cause of the problems were. Okay. And so your brain is funny in that sense. That's why it procrastinates, that's why it ignores the problems, because if it doesn't understand the root cause or doesn't feel like you have the capability to solve the problem, that's what it does to quote unquote protect you. Christopher Phelps: Right? Well, at this point, knew I had to do something and dig into it. And I was fortunate that a friend of mine invited me to a business seminar, and the keynote speaker was the, the godfather of influence himself, Dr. Robert c Cini. And, you know, Cini is a professor of emus, of Mark, uh, psychology and marketing at Arizona State University. Uh, he wrote the book, influence of Psychology of Persuasion over 40 years ago, and that's what he's built his name and research around is this whole idea. And after he, he gone on stage and talked about those six principles. There was one of them in particular that was like my aha moment that I was like, yeah, that principle right there, that one is the root cause of all of my problems in my practices. Okay? So I knew he was, was in, he was an authority, right? Christopher Phelps: This guy had the answer. So I sought him out and, uh, went out to Phoenix, Arizona. Uh, I did a two day training on persuasion and influence with him and his team. And then I found out that they had a certification program so that you could actually go deeper in your knowledge. And they only take, you know, a couple people every few years out of the thousands that apply. And I was fortunate that they accepted me into the family, so to speak. And so I actually got to train under Dr. Cini directly for over a year and basically went and took these principles and this behavioural science research that I've been studying with him. And I went back to my practices and kind of use them as my laboratory, if you will, experimenting, right? Hey, if I kind of worked in this study in this scenario, maybe it might work with my patients in this scenario. Lemme try it. Well come to find out not only did we have some significant results that year, but each of those practices grew by a million dollars each three years in a row. Okay? Darren A Smith: Wow. Christopher Phelps: So, and this is doing, uh, the timeframe of this, by the way, is 2008 to 2010 when in the United States that was during our housing crisis, right? Which a similar economic turmoil like we're experiencing now with inflation and whatnot. So a time period when more dentists went bankrupt in the states than in the history of dentistry, we're growing millions of dollars a year. Okay? Okay. So automatically, because of that experience and the training with him, I drank the Kool-Aid , right? I saw the benefit of this stuff and the power of it. Christopher Phelps: When you stop making your strategies around the excuses people give you after they've said no , and you back it up and you start making your strategies around what they're really using to make the majority of their decisions. So that's what child Dini's principles tap into, right? That's at the heart of what they speak to. So why take this for me? Well, because number one, I've studied this from the man himself. Uh, number two, I've lived it, okay. Uh, I've used it in my own businesses. And then number three, I've helped countless other dentists, dental practices, as well as large corporations outside of dentistry and other industries tap into the power of these principles as well. Uh, so I've helped others see the same kind of benefits and result I have. Darren A Smith: Wow. Okay. I'm hooked . Now, before we come to the questions, 'cause you and I talked, um, let's ask top 10 questions I'd really like to know. Just gimme an example of one thing you changed in your practice that made the growth through this. Christopher Phelps: Yeah. Well, here's a simple one, right? So when we normally present an options, uh, treatment options to a patient, uh, we were actually treating them and I was trained in dental school to take them what I call up the stairs, right? So the options start low and go high, right? Mm-hmm . So for instance, if somebody was missing a single tooth, uh, the options would be do nothing, right? Leave the tooth gone, uh, do something we call a removable partial denture. So have a fake tooth that comes in and out, plastic tooth do a bridge, which is something that stays in place and kind of connects the teeth around the space. So it looks like the tooth is there. Um, and something called a dental implant, right? So we replace the single tooth that way without hurting the neighboring teeth, right? So in the past, we would present something to that effect. We'd say, Hey, do nothing, do this partial, do this bridge or do this implant. Okay? Darren A Smith: Yeah. Got it. Christopher Phelps: Well, one of the things we learned in persuasion is this thing called contrast and how, uh, what you say first sets the stage for how people perceive the next thing you talk about, and then the next thing you talk about and the next thing. So when my financial team would come in and go over those options, let's say it was, uh, $2,000 for the first option. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, $4,000 for the next option, or $6,000 for the, for the high-end implant option. Okay? Each number they hear sounds worse and worse and worse in contrast when you take them up the stairs. Yeah. So one simple thing you can do is just flip the order, don't end with your most expensive item, start with that in your presentation and take people down the stairs as well. Right? There's a reason they say nature likes to take the path, at least resistance. Christopher Phelps: We want to take the path of least that takes less energy, right? So going down actually means that more people are automatically slated to say yes to not only your ideal option, but every other option underneath. So they actually did this in, in a study in dentistry where, uh, doctors were taking people up the stairs in this scenario, and then they ha half the time that's what they did. And then the other half of the time they flipped the coin and started high and took them down low. And we would all agree that if price was the sole motivating factor of why people said yes, then it doesn't matter what order you presented in right? Christopher Phelps: Up or down, you either have the money or you don't. Okay? Well, they ask these doctors, well, how much of an increase in sales of your most expensive, in this case $8,000, uh, product needs to occur for you to think this was a really good experiment? And they were thinking, man, if we had a 20% increase in sales of our most expensive product, that would be great for this year. And so I usually ask the people that same question, think about you and your industry. How many of you would love a 20% increase in your most expensive product that you sell? Right? Well, by starting high and going low, just that one little move, 540% increase in sales of the $8,000 treatment option. Darren A Smith: Wow. Christopher Phelps: One 20. Darren A Smith: And I love that it's so simple from going downstairs. I've just written it down....

December 24, 2024

Darren Smith – Negotiation Skills Training Webinar for Kuwait

Mastering the Art of Negotiation: Strategies, Insights, and Real-World Solutions Explore the art of negotiation with a distinguished group of professionals in this Negotiation Skills Training Webinar - Kuwait. Today, we're joined by Darren A. Smith, a seasoned expert in negotiation strategies and the founder of the innovative Sticky Learning methodology. Darren will guide us through some of the most effective techniques for achieving success in high-stakes negotiations, drawing from his extensive experience. Also joining us are Suha Isaac SCV, a dynamic facilitator and partner in bringing this invaluable knowledge to Kuwait, where she has been instrumental in fostering leadership and strategic negotiation skills across various sectors. Suha will share insights into how negotiation principles can be applied in the unique context of Kuwait's culture, especially for leaders in banking, education, and investment. Additionally, we are joined by professionals like Farrah, Yousif, Hamad, and others, who will share their personal challenges and experiences with negotiation, providing real-world examples to enrich our discussion. This session promises to be interactive and insightful, offering practical strategies that can be applied immediately. Darren will dive into the sticky learning approach, demonstrating how repetitive learning over time leads to meaningful behavioural change and long-lasting negotiation skills. Click the image to watch the webinar on YouTube You Can Read the Full Kantar Market Share Transcript Below: Darren A Smith: Hello and welcome. Suha Isaac SCV: Yeah. Hello everyone? Yes. Hello, hammed. Hello, Farrah. Hello, Yusef. Yousif: Hello. Hello. Hello everyone. Suha Isaac SCV: Hi, hammed. Thank you for joining. Yousif: Thank you. Suha Isaac SCV: Yeah, we're just gonna wait couple of morning, couple of minutes until um, we have more people because they're joining. And we are gonna start in two minutes maybe, Darren. Darren A Smith: We'll just see who else attends and then we'll begin. Suha Isaac SCV: Okay, great. Suha Isaac SCV: And of course, I know it's very difficult for people to join after working hours unless they're really interested in having some insight and a new, uh, let's say a new view about, uh, any topics that will be discussed in these kind of webinars. And, uh, I assume some of the people, I, I assume they have their, uh, I think their, their, uh, kids, uh, going to exams in this period of the time. And many people, let's say busy with starting, uh, preparing for their Christmas leave. So we're, we we're hitting the ground before the 20th of December when everybody actually will be switched off. . Darren A Smith: Makes sense. Suha Isaac SCV: Good. Yeah. Good, good. So the, the mic is yours. Can, uh, Darren, when you want us to start? Darren A Smith: Okay. Well, let's, um, see if we've got a few more people coming. This will be a very interactive webinar, so if you would like to come on camera, and if you would like to join in, I'd love to see your faces and we can chat about what challenges you have and how I can help. Hi. Good. Suha Isaac SCV: Yeah, how you, Yousif: Hi, how are you? Darren A Smith: Hello. I'm good. Good. I'm good. Farrah. Hello? Uh, you are on mute just in case you Farah: . Oh, sorry. I just said hi. Hi. Uh, Darren A Smith: I did some lip reading and I think I guessed. Uh, let's see if Hamed will join us. Can we coax him out? Hamed, do you fancy join us? Okay. And we've got, uh, someone else coming in. Okay. So bear with us while we just grab the late comers. Um, if you could, um, grab a piece of paper and a pen, it would be great. Um, just be some questions. Farah: Okay. Suha Isaac SCV: Okay. I think we have, um, SIA Hussein, thank you for joining us. And I think he, you want to start? Darren A Smith: It's all right. We've got Hamed coming back, so I've just, uh, Suha Isaac SCV: Okay. Darren A Smith: Admitting, um, and we've got another person, so bear with me. Farah: Mm-hmm. Darren A Smith: No, gone again. Okay, good. We have some tech problems. Let me just see. Uh, they were here then they've got over scratch. Okay. I Suha Isaac SCV: See. Yeah. Okay. Darren A Smith: It's four minutes past. Uh, is everyone all right if we start? Suha Isaac SCV: Yeah, I think we will. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Good. So thank you everyone for being here on time and, uh, um, I honestly having a webinar, um, it's very new, let's say concept on the, on the Kuwaiti culture, specifically the, the working culture that we need to, um, invest in our, let's say, save time or time with our families just to gain some knowledge. And sometimes people think if the knowledge is a free, so it's worthless, but that's the contradict. We're trying to giving you some very, uh, precious, informative, uh, knowledge, which will drag you, of course, to continue and pursue your, um, digging more into these kind of subjects. So negotiation is very attractive and very, uh, let's say, let's, let's say it's very vague sometimes because people think, uh, the negotiation is just, let's say I can read a book and I can negotiate with any kind of clients I have, or partner or family or even our kids or whatever. Suha Isaac SCV: So negotiation, it's a little bit, uh, um, uh, there's a methodology and there's so many schools. Darren has one of very, uh, very, uh, interesting school of, uh, delivering this kind of knowledge called the sticky learning for that time. Uh, let's say partnering with Darren to bring these kind of, uh, methodologies to Kuwait, to empower our leaders and our, uh, let's say our experts in banking, education and investment, other kind of sectors, how they will negotiate, um, specifically in gaining, uh, the deal. There is a book written by Trump called The Deal, and this is how this guy or Trump reached the presidency. The deal, uh, I, I'm, I'm honestly ordering the book and I'm gonna read it because this is how people negotiate. It's all based on negotiation. So I'll leave the floor for Mr. Darren to introduce, to introduce himself and what is the sticky learning methodology that he come up with regarding the negotiations. So, Darren, please go ahead. Darren A Smith: Thank you. I'm gonna start with a question 'cause I don't like talking about myself. The question for everyone here is, what one problem would you like to solve in negotiation? And let me see if I can help you in the next 30 minutes. Now I've got a whole agenda of things, but if you could put in the chat or tell me what one thing do you wanna solve? Farrah, please. Farah: Um, I think especially as a woman, I think there's a gender aspect to it. So I kind of wanna get what I want without seeming too pushy. 'cause I think that pulls pushing men, especially who are sometimes usually your manager away when you're being too pushy. Darren A Smith: Oh, lovely question. Gender aspect. Alright, so I'm gonna talk a bit about push and pull in a little while. That's the bit I'd like you to look out for, which I think will help. Okay. Someone else, what's the one thing you'd like to solve so you get some value from the time you're spending here? Ef. Just 'cause you are here. Oh. Oh, Ahmed, go on. Ahmed, what's yours? He jumped in. Ahmed: Yes. Hello. Mr. D and Mrs. Suha Isaac SCV: Yes. Hello. Ahmed: Hi. Uh, actually one very frequent problem B is working in risk management is in, in many, in many ways, uh, finding a middle ground. Uh, and when we propose a solution for certain risk situations, uh, we find it difficult to mediate sometimes between different parties. I mean, just to reach a middle ground between different, uh, sides of the, of the argument. So that's, that's something that I'm frequently faced with. Darren A Smith: Okay. I think I understand what you're saying, Ahmed. I've written it down. Let me see if we can crack something here together. We also have about 10 minutes at the end for q and a. Um, who else would like to share, uh, one thing they'd like to solve in negotiation skills? Yu it's just 'cause you're in my eye line. Yousif: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hi. Then, um, uh, actually, uh, if we want to talking about the, uh, uh, uh, communication, how we, how we make the communication easy for the another parties. Okay. So, uh, for example, if we want, if we want to give any solutions about something that we have in our works, how we are summarize it and give it an easy way, easy idea or easy uh, uh, thinking. Darren A Smith: Lovely, lovely question. Alright, we'll just ask one more person, see if they've got something and then we'll move on. One more person. What do you have that you'd like to solve here today? Okay, we have no takers. Oh, Darren A Smith: Hamad. Go on. Hamad: Um, I'm always being afraid that I get outsmarted and being rejected. For example, I'm the head of customer service, so I always, I'm always in demand for something for my people and my managers always being, you know, outsmart me in something and then they reject it. Darren A Smith: Mm. Okay. I'm keen to know more. I'm not sure I can get it. Just tell me another 20 seconds on that so I can understand it a bit better. Please. Maybe an example, Hamad: Uh, for example, I always wanna expand my teams. I want some help from, I want some help for, uh, uh, increasing my head count, you know? Yeah. They always got something to reject me, like, improve your sales. Then we'll talk, do this and then we'll talk. Darren A Smith: Okay. Okay. I might have something for you, Hamad. Hamad: Alright. Okay. Darren A Smith: I may do right. We've got about 30 minutes together. So is everyone ready to rock and roll? Cool. Fabulous. Alright. First thing I'm going to do is let's talk about sticky learning. Not us promoting ourselves, but in terms of why don't we achieve behavioral change after training. What are your thoughts? Why is it we go on training and do nothing differ

September 10, 2024

Derrick Chevalier – Negotiating the Rope-A-Dope |Expert Interview

How Embracing Nervousness and Understanding Human Factors Can Transform Your Deals In this podcast with negotiation expert Derek Chevalier, we dive into the secrets of mastering negotiations and transforming your approach from amateur to pro. Discover how to leverage your own nervousness to your advantage with the surprising strategy of "rope-a-dope," and learn why understanding the human element in negotiations is crucial for success. With insights that go beyond mere tactics, Chevalier's advice reveals how to effectively manage complex negotiations, understand the hidden roles of all participants, and craft strategies that make you the master of your negotiation game. Ready to up your negotiation skills and walk away with better deals? Read on to uncover the key strategies that will give you the upper hand and turn every negotiation into a win. View this episode on YouTube by clicking the image below. Click the image to watch the podcast on YouTube You Can Read the Full 'Rope-a-dope' Expert Interview Here: Darren A. Smith: Alright, alright. Welcome to the world stickies. Learning my name is Darren Smith and my guest is Derek Chevalier. Now Derek and I were just having a great conversation because I was saying how do you pronounce your surname? And you were telling me it's French and it means nice. Is this right? Wow. Derrick Chevalier: OK. Yes, yes, that's it's actually a title, right, a Chevalier or knight. Darren A. Smith: You said so much better than me. Derrick Chevalier: Ha ha ha. Darren A. Smith: And also we were discussing Smith and I was saying how boring it is and I love your surname. I love it, I love it. But let's get down to why we're here. Derek, you're an expert on negotiation. I'm going to ask you a question which will be a little bit tough, but I know you'll take it in the right way. Why should our listeners listen to you when I ask you questions about negotiation? Right. Have you been doing it a while? Derrick Chevalier: Ha. I've been doing it awhile and I think the benefits that can come from the experience that I have is that people can transform their interactions with other human beings. Darren A. Smith: Nice. Derrick Chevalier: It's a process that can be adapted to virtually any element or aspect of both personal and professional life, child rearing to business, yeah. Darren A. Smith: Yeah, yeah. I mean I always say in negotiation, I can negotiate with anyone. But my kids, you know, they just win. But you know, we both know that. Derrick Chevalier: Exactly. Darren A. Smith: Now I've got. Derrick Chevalier: The younger they are, the more true that is. Darren A. Smith: Oh, I want a lolly. I want a lolly. I want a. Oh, come on. You've worn me down. Have 4 lollies, alright? So you and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago and I said well, let's ask the questions that people are asking on Google, which I've got here. And you said, yeah, you can answer those questions. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to ask you the questions that the folks are mostly asking on Google, like 10,000 hits a month, alright. Derrick Chevalier: OK. Sure. Darren A. Smith: So let's start with the first one. Nice easy one to get us going. What do you mean by negotiation, that's what the folks are asking. Derrick Chevalier: Sure. So it's a formal or informal process of either conflict resolution or problem resolution. Essentially. That's as simple as it is, you know, a process for resolving. Darren A. Smith: I like it. Derrick Chevalier: Either issues or questions or conflicts. Darren A. Smith: Alright, nice. Nice. Alright, nice and simple. For folks watching or listening to this show and they're thinking I can't negotiate. I don't like negotiating and I avoid it. Just a couple of thoughts for them before I move on to our second question. Derrick Chevalier: Right, sure. Quick disclaimer, everything that I'll talk about is based upon the proprietary negotiation framework that we use in Harrison Chevalier. So that is actually called CNSUF or snuff negotiating for short, right? So right. So. Darren A. Smith: Locked up. Right. Snuff locked it. Yep. Derrick Chevalier: If we're looking, go ahead. What was the question again? I wanted to give that disclaimer. Yeah. Darren A. Smith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. So if there's folks out there that are listening or watching and they're thinking, how do I negotiate? I don't like this negotiating thing, isn't it just people who bang their fists on tables? I know it's not, but go on. Derrick Chevalier: Yeah. Sure. Right, that's such a great question because I've learned over, especially in the last couple of years. We've done a lot of research and found that people are reluctant to negotiate. And that also a lot of people believe that negotiation can be learned simply through experience. So here's the rub. Whether you want to negotiate or not is a choice, but we are always negotiating because essentially, by the very definition that we just shared. Every interaction with a human being, and if you look at the pundits in Physiology, it's a great book called *The Body Keeps the Score*. Derrick Chevalier: We are both negotiating with ourselves, but we are certainly negotiating every situation and every interaction that we're in with other human beings. The question is, are we doing that by osmosis because we are impacted by our sociology, education, the political system that we grow up in, and the institutions we're raised in. So are we doing it on purpose or by mistake? I would say that the difference between a layperson and a professional negotiator is that they're engaged in the same process. One is using a formula as if a cook or a baker would use a recipe and another is doing it by rote memory or by experience. Darren A. Smith: Nice. I like that. I like that. I like the recipe metaphor with the cook and the baker. Just come back to *The Body Keeps the Score*. I haven't read that one, but I assume it's on Amazon and blah blah blah. OK. Derrick Chevalier: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great book that talks about the fact that very much of what and who we are is a part of where we've come from. And that particular book talks a lot about trauma and it talks about the trauma that we experience all the way back into the womb, being a part of our DNA and writing part of the script for who we become. Darren A. Smith: OK. Derrick Chevalier: And how we handle situations that we're involved in, what memories trigger us into various mental, physical, and physiological states, right. So. That's why somebody can hear a door slam. I was a combat veteran and that's why somebody that's been in an acute situation can hear somebody raise their voice or have a particular tone of voice, speak at a particular pitch or rate and immediately be triggered into a physiology that was part of their upbringing, right? So. That is going to occur when we're interacting with people, which is why it's very important to be mindful of not only what we say, but how we say it to whom we're speaking to. Darren A. Smith: In episode 2 that you and I are going to do, I'm going to segue you into that. We're going to talk about you being a combat veteran, but right now I'm going to move on now just for the folks at home. I want to give them a snippet. So we're going to make this some big stuff and some small stuff. When they're in conflict and negotiations, conflicts, it's problem solving, it's getting something resolved. Have you got a small top tip we can give to these guys? And they're like, oh, give me something. Derek, give me something. Derrick Chevalier: Alright, that's OK. No, that's fine. Sure. Negotiate people and not problems. Darren A. Smith: Oh oh, you've got to expand on that. I love that. Go on. Derrick Chevalier: First of all, most people are focused on their wants, their needs, and the desired outcome so. Darren A. Smith: Yeah. Derrick Chevalier: They are focused on the details of the issue, their position versus their counterpart's position. But. We're dealing with human beings, so a lot of you think about chess. Chess is often a great metaphor for negotiation, right? And also sport. Are a great metaphor for negotiation. However, in the snuff framework we talk about well, where isn't chess a good metaphor? Well, here's where it's different in chess than in life. In chess, every chess board, no matter what it's made out of, comes down to 8 squares, 8 down and eight across. We know who the players are, and every player has a prescribed role. Darren A. Smith: Good. Derrick Chevalier: A role they can only move at certain times. They have particular limitations and no matter where you are in the world, those limitations are the same. There's only been a couple major changes in chess in the last 400 years, so we know what the rules are and we know what the players' positions are. That is not true in life. We don't know who. We may know what their titles are, but we don't know who they are. We don't know what role they're playing in that negotiation. Darren A. Smith: Mm hmm. Derrick Chevalier: We don't know their limitations in terms of power or capability and we don't have access to the same input that they do. So therefore that human interaction is much more complicated because you want to identify the role, position, and objectives of the person you're interacting with. By contrast, here's sport. Darren A. Smith: OK. Derrick Chevalier: And this comes down to what we'll talk about a little bit is transactional negotiation. So many people use sports as a metaphor for negotiation. All right, snuff point. What is the difference between life and between sports? That's a big one. In a sports competition, whether it's cricket or tennis or bowling or football or soccer, whatever it is. How many people can see the scoreboard? Darren A. Smith: OK, alright. Derrick Chevalier: How many?...

March 5, 2024

Johan Olwagen – Whole Brain Thinking | Expert Interview

Dive Into Whole Brain Thinking In this episode of "The World's Stickiest Learning," hosts Darren A. Smith and George Araham engage in a deep dive into Whole Brain Thinking with expert psychologist Johan Olwagen. The discussion revolves around the HBDI (Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument) model, exploring its applications and insights. With Johan's extensive experience since the late '90s and the hosts' own encounters with the model, the conversation delves into the value and impact of Whole Brain Thinking. Get a comprehensive understanding of HBDI and its relevance in leadership development and personal growth with this podcast! View this episode on YouTube by clicking the image below. Watch the video if you're more of a visual person You Can Read the Full Kantar Market Share Transcript Below: Darren A. Smith: Welcome to the world. Stickiest learning. I am absolutely pleased that this title will be a deep dive into whole brain thinking with our psychologist, Johan. Johan, how are you? Johan Olwagen: I'm very well and thank you for the opportunity guys. Darren A. Smith: And we're here with George as well. Hi, George. You good? George Araham: Hello. Hi, good and you? Darren A. Smith: All right, so we'll ask these guys to introduce themselves in a moment. What we're looking to do here for the next 30 to 40 minutes is a real deep dive into HBDI whole brain thinking to understand this thinking preference tool. And we've got our expert here. And George and I are going to grill Johan to within an inch of his life about HBDI because he's been using it for about 500 years. Johan Olwagen: Excellent. Looking forward to the challenge. Darren A. Smith: All right. Well, let's start with George. George, would you just tell us 30 seconds about you? So our listeners know who you are before we get stuck in. George Araham: Sure. So I'm actually NSO blog writer and I've been collaborating with Darren on HBDI. Which is a fascinating assessment tool. I also have my masters in marketing, but that's boring stuff so I don't really like to talk much about it. I did write an international best selling book on relationships, so yeah, that would be me in a in a nutshell. Johan Olwagen: Trans. Darren A. Smith: Well done. Well done. Thank you, George. Very welcome. Johan, would you just give us 30 seconds about you? And also I'm going to ask you that tough question, but in the nicest possible way, why should we listen to you when you talk about HBDI, please? Johan Olwagen: Well, first let me introduce myself. I'm a clinical psychologist in South Africa. I have been working in the field of leadership development since 1995, went through a number of iterations in my career. Why should you listen to me? Passion, excitement and impact? I really am passionate about getting people to change and working with people so that they can thrive and grow in whatever they intend in life and purpose in life. Darren A. Smith: Fabulous. Fabulous. Thank you. Thank you. George Araham: Hmm. Darren A. Smith: And how many years have you been, Johan working with HBDI whole brain thinking. Johan Olwagen: Well, in the late 90s, we had discovered it. A colleague of myself and we wanted to get a hold of the HBDI and it was provided to somebody else to run the business in Africa. And so I haunted this person down in 2001, made-up with her. She was the CEO of Herman International Africa and just said, I need to talk to you. We need to get together. We need to. Utilise this tool because I found absolute value in it so since 2001. In a couple of decades now. Darren A. Smith: And I didn't know that before we started this, but I had my first profile done when I worked for Sainsbury's, a supermarket here in 2001. Johan Olwagen: There we go. Fantastic. Johan Olwagen: Again. George Araham: Interesting, that's a similarity. Johan Olwagen: Absolutely. Yeah. Darren A. Smith: So we've got about 50 years between this of Herman thinking. Wow, wow, wow, wow. OK, OK. Brilliant. Brilliant. So we've got some credibility. We've been using it for a while. And in this room, I think we've got a red, a yellow. And I think we've got some blue as well. So we might be missing green. But as we've said in our preparation, George wore a green shirt. So we've nailed the green. Lovely. George Araham: Yeah. Darren A. Smith: All right, we're going to come over to George for our first question and then we'll take turns, I think, and we'll build on those. So, George, what's our first question for Johan, please? George Araham: So I'm going to start hard. I always like to jump deep into the subject, so I'm going to start by asking like today in it's very trending that companies are very much masking in land of like they tend to be very rigid in their approach and a lot of employees prefer the freedom of choice which they are not being given. I'm not going to go deep into it but like this like this is. A bit of context around the question, so my question to you, Johan, is how would you as an employee for example? George Araham: That has a blue, a yellow, a green, or a red personality type. How would you cope with this problem? Yeah. Johan Olwagen: All right, so I want to say this first upfront because, as you've mentioned the word personality part, I think it's definitely more thinking preferences. So for me, the starting point is always this: how you think is how you act is who you are, because our thinking, if we look at the behaviour that people display, behind that is a lot of thinking, and you're so right. I mean, we all grew up with particular thinking patterns and ways of doing things. Organisations need to understand that we're in a new world of work. It's a VUCA world, volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous, and so the old ways of being and the old ways of thinking. George Araham: Yeah. Johan Olwagen: What got you there is not going to take you here. And I think that's a critical understanding in that changing world; we've literally got to learn to shift our thinking gears, if I can use that analogy because if we don't shift the thinking gears, the elements of the model that you don't apply will bite you in the end. In other words, if we really look at whole brain thinking. It really implies for me that we need to climb out of our comfort zone. We can't expect other people to change. Johan Olwagen: Or to accommodate us, we need to do that accommodation. And so what you will find in the new world of work, especially with the new generations, very flexible, very open, very willing to discover and explore. And unless you shift that gear to also accommodate them, you're going to run into difficulties. And we see this. How do we see it? We see it in organizations that want to force people back into the workplace. Johan Olwagen: That are not open to work from anywhere, and they're running into difficulties and we can talk about what the kind of leaders are that do that. But I would say that shift your gears. It's a new world. It's a different world and you know Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister, said in 2018 already. Johan Olwagen: That the world has never changed as fast as it is changing now. Think about that. The world has never changed as fast as it's changing now. It will never be this slow again. So unless you accommodate that, unless we are agile, we run into difficulties, so I'm not sure if that's answered the question directly, but that's a start. Darren A. Smith: All right. Well, I've got a subsequent question off the back of that. So if I'm one of those colors, I might assume that the Greens might struggle with this more because they're more rigid in their thinking than the yellows. I'm happy to be wrong. I'm just sort of mulling this over. What do you think? George Araham: Yeah. Johan Olwagen: So, so. So let's talk about what those colors are. You know, if you think of in the whole brain model, yellow is about holism synthesis, integration, it's about innovation, forward thinking and and I think if one can use the F word for yellow, it's about future. So how do we how do we accommodate this future? Johan Olwagen: Blue very much about goal-directed focus is the F word there. How do we solve this problem? How do we deal with the issues? How do we capture the chase, whereas for green, green wants a format? Once structure it wants clarity, it wants certainty. If you think about it, green very often. Struggles with change. It's not that they can't change. George Araham: Yeah. Johan Olwagen: But the change must; they need to be able to see how that change is going to add value and what the process is going to follow. So now post COVID. The world has changed. Suddenly, people are working from different places. New demands are coming in and blue says, excuse me. What part of did you not understand? You get back to the office. This is how we've done it. Green says hello. This is a workplace. Can you just come in here? There's due process and policies that we need to follow. Yellow says, whatever. What policies? What are you talking about? Alright. And then obviously the Red Quadrant people-oriented collaboration. Johan Olwagen: It's about teamwork now. Can you imagine? They run into people who tell them this is how it will be. Yeah. An office space or a factory space? There's no problem. They do it immediately. But if it doesn't make sense. So what do you want? Do you want me to spend time and hours? Or do you want the output? And does it matter where you get the output? Or is it where you want me to be? The green quadrants if for them they can see. How it unfolds sequentially and how ultimately it would add value. They will buy in, but don't you come and just change things for the sake of changing. Johan Olwagen: Yeah, let's go. Where do you want me to work? I'll work. I can be anyway, but but certainly I think all of those quadrants are open to change that or yellows....

November 27, 202330 min

Where Do C-Suites Go for Support? | Expert Kim Randall

It Can Be Loney at the Top - But C-Suite Coaching Cards Can Help Join C-Suite Coach, Kim Randall and our very own Darren Smith, as they talk about support for C-Suite (executive-level managers). Face it, sometimes it gets lonely at the top, especially when everyone is rushing to you for support. Explore Kim's passion for delving into the human side of leaders, helping them to connect with who they are as a person as well as a leader. If you're a leader or want to offer support, make sure to check out this podcast. Click the image above to watch the episode on YouTube! You Can Read the Full C-Suite Transcript Below: Darren A. Smith: Hello. You're at a podcast. Welcome to the world's stickiest learning. We're with Kim Randall and also Pudding who you're stroking there. Kim-Adele Randall: I am to try and get him to not join in. I think he might be the more vocal of the two of us this morning. Darren A. Smith: It's probably true. That's probably true. The title of our podcast is where Do C-Suites go to for support now? I'm joined by Kim, who is a C-Suite coach. Is that right? Kim-Adele Randall: It is. Darren A. Smith: OK, now in the nicest possible way. Kim, I'm going to ask you, why should we listen to you about this? Kim-Adele Randall: Great question, Darren. So I guess for me, I started off as in C-Suite and was there for a number of years. And then when I became a mum, I decided that I could have a bigger impact by coaching of the C-Suite leaders. Having been there and realised that it might be lonely at the top, but it's certainly not quiet. Everyone is looking to you for the answer. Everyone expects you to always be on your game. People forget that our cease suite leaders are people 1st and leaders second and we are all perfectly imperfect. We have things that go wrong in our lives. We don't always know the answer. Darren A. Smith: True. Kim-Adele Randall: We're not always feeling like we're firing on all cylinders and so if we can, when we understand the human side of that C-Suite, that was one of my passions as part of my purpose, which is how do we help those C-Suite leaders connect with who they are as a person as well as who they are as a leader and give them that support? Because no human being in the world can survive without support for long. And it's this way you think the phrase comes from lonely at the top. I think so, yeah. Because when you get to the top, you both from. From my own experience and also from, you know, coaching at hundreds of other C-Suite leaders, one of the things that is so common throughout is we all fear becoming irrelevant. Kim-Adele Randall: And when you get to the very top, you know that everybody wants your job. You're doing one of you, so there's nowhere to go. So actually all you are is hanging on for dear life until somebody comes to step into those shoes and that is that plays in, in their head. It's that, you know, am I still adding value? Am I still relevant? Am I still doing stuff? Cause where do you go for your help? You can't. If you have those moments of doubt, we all have them. You know, in Process syndrome hits us all at some point in our life, you kind of go well, where, where, where do I go? Darren A. Smith: True. True again. Kim-Adele Randall: So I'm having this moment of doubt and I can't go to my direct reports because they're one looking to me for support and equally looking for any element of weakness so that they might be able to take and I can't go to the board because they might doubt my confidence or credibility and therefore you know that might have ramifications. So where do I go in those moments? Where I need to get out of my own head and we all know that we all have blind spots for the reason we're blind to them. Kim-Adele Randall: So no amount of looking at ourselves in the mirror is going to highlight those blind spots. What we need is a sometimes a sounding board, sometimes a trusted advisor, sometimes just a safe space where I don't know if you've ever had these moments, Darren, where you've been saying something in your head for a long time. So plausible, it's so likely to be real. Darren A. Smith: Yes. Kim-Adele Randall: And then you say it out loud to another human being, and at that point you go. So can I don't help you or I've just heard from myself how ridiculous that is But you need that space to be able to do it, cause saying it's yourself in the mirror still sounds plausible. Related resource - C-Suite Coaching Cards Click the image to watch our C-Suite coaching card video showing you what you get in the deck and how to use the cards >> C-Suite Coaching Cards << >> Branded C-Suite Coaching Cards << Darren A. Smith: Alright, try very trick. When we talked to companies about training our office and talking to these C-Suite type people, then we might say to them and what about for you and they're like, what do you mean, what about support for you though? No, no, no. Let's do it for our people. Don't you need something as well? No. Why is that? And I think it is that fear. They're not sure that they want to show their underbelly. Yeah. Kim-Adele Randall: Yeah, because it takes courage to show vulnerability and there is that line. It's like you know, how do you show vulnerability without losing credibility? There's a balance and it's helping them find that balance and that confident balance that says, OK, this is OK because actually when we inadvertently when we say I don't need any help myself that you all need help. We don't have the impact we expected to have, so our impact is we're trying to be magnanimous. Darren A. Smith: Yeah. Kim-Adele Randall: We're trying to say, like, you know, I'll give it to you that because I want to be supportive. Darren A. Smith: Yes, yes. Kim-Adele Randall: What instead comes across is I don't need it, but you not do, which is the exact opposite of what our intention is, and I think for me, that's one of the big things I talked to see sweet about which is impact versus intention. Their intention is usually really positive, but very often how they're delivering it. They're impact they're having is so misaligned and that's when you see people starting to really question whether or not the values are really there, whether or not there's as a a disconnect, which in a world where we are constantly battling how we win, attract and retain top talent. The last thing you want is a misalignment between your intention and your impact. Darren A. Smith: Absolutely. I like that you and I talked about it in our prep and it's impacts an intention. Can you give us an example that my brain that to life for us, something real life where you've either experienced it or seen it in someone your coaching? Kim-Adele Randall: Yeah. Yes. Darren A. Smith: Because I really like that impact and intention. Things. Oh, I got that. Kim-Adele Randall: Yeah. So I was. Darren A. Smith: OK. Kim-Adele Randall: I was doing coaching for an entire season suite for one organisation, so individual coaching it had been driven by the CEO and when I was talking to their direct reports they were like ohh if you know doctorial he can't tell him anything. You've not got this, and so if you given him that feedback and there were lots of shaking heads looking surprised like no Kim and that was like, why not? Well, I don't think I know we couldn't do that. We couldn't possibly do that was like, OK, but he's instigated this program, so he's doing it's part of his development. He's brought me in. Kim-Adele Randall: I just as well as other coaching. I do stakeholder driven coaching where you get the stakeholders, you get them to give the feedback as well. So yeah, he's driven this to say he wants the feedback when we don't think he really does so. And they said, well, could you give him the feedback? That's fine. Darren A. Smith: Virgin volunteer. Kim-Adele Randall: Absolutely I can. And I will. That's part of my job, I said. But let me play out for you. What will happen? I give him the feedback that this is how you all feel. He comes out to talk to you about that and you will go. I don't know what she was on that day. I didn't say that must have been somebody else as it how likely is he to really believe that this is a challenge, that he has an opportunity to overcome and they were like it's fair point. Kim-Adele Randall: But could you give it him anyway? So I went into to talk to him. Right. Others giving them the feedback and he was like no, definitely not. And I said, OK, let me let me start from a different place because the first thing that we do when we're given feedback is we defend what we were trying to achieve. Darren A. Smith: Could. Kim-Adele Randall: So he's trying to be supportive, to be open minded to the areas that he needs to develop. I said so, so I shared this with him. I said let's start with what I think is your intention. I think you're trying to be an open minded leader. I think you're trying to create a culture where need back as part of the DNA where it's the positive because everything is about moving you forward. It's allowing you to be the best that you can be. It's shining that light on your blind spots to allow you to see them. Darren A. Smith: Nice, that's. Kim-Adele Randall: And therefore respond to them, would I be correct? And it was like absolutely came one brilliant. So that's great. That's what you're trying to be. That's your intention. That is what you were putting. You think you're putting out into the world? Darren A. Smith: Yeah. Kim-Adele Randall: Can I now share with you the impact you're having? Because while that's what you're trying to do, the impact you're having is people are scared to come and talk to you. They don't think you will listen to the feedback they are afraid of making a mistake. And that's the culture that they are now permeating throughout the organisation. Kim-Adele Randall: ...

November 16, 202323 min

Chelsea Kirk – EDI Coaching Cards | Expert Interview

Cultivating a Culture of Belonging Join us as we explore Chelsea Kirk's profound perspective on EDI (equity, diversity, inclusion) and, above all, the significance of belonging. Discover how these principles can transform workplaces into vibrant ecosystems where every individual feels valued, heard, and empowered to contribute their best. Also, we talk about the EDI Coaching Cards and how valuable they can be. So get ready for a journey that goes beyond the surface, into the heart of creating workplaces that truly reflect the diverse tapestry of the world we live in. Click the image above to watch the full episode on YouTube! You Can Read the EDI Coaching Cards Podcast Episode Below: Darren A. Smith: Welcome to the world's stickiest learning. I am absolutely over the moon to have Chelsea Kirk with us. Hello. Chelsea Kirk: Hello, thank you for having me. Darren A. Smith: Hello how are you doing? It's Friday weekend soon. Chelsea Kirk: Absolutely super excited. Darren A. Smith: Good, good, good, good. Now we wanted to ask you to come to our podcast because you're an expert on EDI, is that right? Chelsea Kirk: That is. Darren A. Smith: OK. So Chelsea, would you tell us what you do and in the nicest possible way, why should we listen to you when you talk about EDI? Chelsea Kirk: Yeah, of course. So my current position is head of equality, diversity, inclusion at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Kings Lynn been in that post for around 2 1/2 years and done EDI for probably near enough four years. Darren A. Smith: Wow. Chelsea Kirk: And kind of a generalist for about 8 years in HR prior to EDI. I suppose in terms of listening to me, I've got kind of a lot of experience in sort of that HR field in the EDI sort of field and landscape and. Darren A. Smith: OK. Chelsea Kirk: We're quite well connected with different sort of professions and different EDI leaders, and I think as well sort of keeping yourself current. It's really important that you know, as the landscape evolves constantly, it is around, how do you kind of keep yourself current? So you know, well connected, you know, net networking with different individuals. It is really important as well. So I would say in a roundabout way that that to sort of summarise. Yes. Darren A. Smith: Alright, alright, cool. Cool, cool. So EDI is something that's relatively new to most people, although it's becoming, dare I say, on trend, it's becoming more topical, which is a good thing. So if I new to EDI, would you just summarise for us what is this thing and why should we start understanding it better? Darren A. Smith: Run. Chelsea Kirk: Why is really important one? I think creating that sense of belonging in the workplace, having that safe space to be their true authentic selves and bring their whole selves to, you know, the workplace. And I think that for me is really, really important. And I think as you know, EDI has really sort of grown over the last sort of few years. I think there's a few topics that have really elevated that. So I think you know the Me Too movement, the Black Lives Matter. Employees who feel welcomed contribute to a healthy workplace environment Chelsea Kirk: Have really sort of pushed the dial and organisation. Darren A. Smith: There. Chelsea Kirk: Sort of. You know, waking up to some of that and, you know, EDI is becoming quite a top priority in organisations and now becoming that golden thread through it all really. Darren A. Smith: Yeah, and what about organisations that are still sort of we're too busy, we've got too much on, we're just not going to think about this now, does it matter? Why should they really start thinking about it and caring about this stuff? Chelsea Kirk: Yeah, I think it is really, really important. I think because you know similar to what I've said, it's about how do we ensure that our workplace is safe for people to be there, to authentic selves, but also what is creating organisations, EVP, what is making me want to join your organisation. So you know, if I look to apply what is enticing me, what do my, what do the values bring? What does the culture bring? So I think it's really important that organisations have an EDI function. Darren A. Smith: Wow. Chelsea Kirk: To really drive home that you know, within our organisation, within the AHS, we have a really diverse workforce. So over 70 different nationalities in our workforce alone, you know 27% of our workforce are black and Asian minority ethnic background people. So it's really important that actually organisations have an EDI function within their within their sort of set up. Yeah, yeah. Darren A. Smith: OK, OK. And just so you can bring it to life for us, what do you do day-to-day? Because I I get it, but I'm thinking what does, what does Chelsea do? Do you go and talk to what do you do? Darren A. Smith: OK. Chelsea Kirk: Absolutely. It is really about networking, engaging and talking to people. So a large proportion of my role is leading the staff networks. So we have reach which has raised ethnicity and cultural heritage disability. LGBTQ plus and spirituality. So again, it is about leading the programme of work that's happening in those, those networks supporting the chairs and Co-chairs with delivering some of that piece of work as well. Chelsea Kirk: And I think importantly, is around what is it that we're doing? So monitoring that progress and tracking that, but also celebrating the diverse cultures that we have in our organisation. So working with them to go, you know, prize coming up, what are we going to do as an organisation to support that event? The Black History Month, what are we doing to support that? So a lot of my sort of work underpinned by kind of our staff network and driving that, there's a few sort of mandatory elements that we have to do. So when we look at our res and Dez, which is the workforce race equality standard. Darren A. Smith: OK. Chelsea Kirk: The workforce Disability equality standard that is something nationally we have to sort of annually submit data and track and monitor our progress. Darren A. Smith: Yeah. Chelsea Kirk: So there's a few things that kind of legislation Equality Act that we have to sort of, you know, guide ourselves with. But there'll be the other stuff that is the kind of staff networks engaging with colleagues around these. These are things that we are doing in the organisation to make it more inclusive. You know, what more can we do building those relationships and connections because communication is so important? Chelsea Kirk: To kind of really cascade and share what we're doing as an organisation and how that's making, you know, improvements for our staff. Chelsea Kirk: Yes. Yeah. We love an acronym, don't we? Chelsea Kirk: Yeah, yeah. Darren A. Smith: OK, OK. Res and des, I've never heard of those acronyms. I get it. OK. Yeah. So you the, they're probably quite normal, aren't they? Like resident days everyday. OK. All right. That was brand new to me. OK. And what? What's something that you've been proud of over the last couple of years in this changing of EDI, making people feel more included. What have you done where you go? Do you know that was brilliant. Darren A. Smith: Mm hmm. Darren A. Smith: Yep. Chelsea Kirk: Oh God, there's quite a couple I would say, but we did a reverse mentoring programme and we partnered with an external organisation called Remedy Project. So reverse mentoring for EDI and it was led by Stacey Johnson, who sort of is the leader of the organisation and she's supported it with that programme. And I think we had some real, really powerful moments and conversations and feedback about their experience. Chelsea Kirk: So we have senior leaders that were being mentored by junior staff with a lift experience and really kind of how do they share that? How do they know that and how they more aware themselves as a leader? So really put themselves in their shoes and you know, walking alongside them in some of those lift experience elements and that really did spark some really good conversations. Some were difficult, a time for some of them that were in those pairs together. Darren A. Smith: Yep. Chelsea Kirk: But some were really, really good and we got some, you know, really positive feedback. I think we developed the EDI calendar, which again is really important for me. Education is so important for us to learn and change as people, but also as leaders and managers as well. So that EDI calendar also guides us around, you know what events are really important to our staff and how we going to celebrate that as a, as an organisation, as a network, as a community. Chelsea Kirk: But also what is? What is, you know, black history? if I didn't know what Black History Month meant and what the history is, I can go on to that platform. It's interactive and you can find out more about that event or that day or that month in particular. So it helps one that person, but also two helps you know potentially their team because they're more aware of if they do have someone in their team of a diverse background and they could be more aware of different culture dates that would be celebrating, you know, checking in asking those important questions so. Chelsea Kirk: I think there are a couple of sort of proud moments really. Darren A. Smith: Lovely. And you see, is it Diwali at the moment Diwali, it is Diwali, Diwali because. Chelsea Kirk: Yeah. Yeah, Diwali. Yeah. So we had an event this week actually and one evening this week. So again, love culture, bringing it to life and having our staff there celebrating with them. So yeah, happens over 5 days. Chelsea Kirk: Yes, that's it. Yeah. Of light? Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Darren A. Smith: Lovely. I only know because there's a lot of lights on houses around here which are early for Christmas. I say. Oh,...

November 8, 202323 min

I Can’t Get My Prospects to Reply, What Can I Do? | George Araham

Use HBDI to Get Your Prospects to Reply Are you fed up with not getting hold of your prospects? Learn to use the HBDI quadrant to your advantage and get prospects to reply. Join us in this fourth instalment of this HBDI series with Darren Smith and George Araham. You Can Read the Full HBDI Transcript Below: Darren A. Smith Hi and welcome to the world's stickiest learning. I'm here with George Araman. George, how are you? George Hi Darren, I'm good. How are you? George I'm sure it won't be. Darren A. Smith Hey, I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited about our next podcast, so I'm gonna read out the title 'cause. It's a bit of a mouthful, but I think it works. I can't get my prospects to reply. Use HBDI to get your prospects to reply. So that's the title of our 4th podcast on HBDI. George is going to be excited for the next 20 minutes. What do you think about that title? Finally, get prospects to reply Darren A. Smith That's certainly the plan. George Well, show me the money like they say so I'm pretty sure people are gonna like our audience are really gonna love it. George Yes. Darren A. Smith Fantastic. Fantastic. So let's do a few minutes bringing people up to speed on HBDI so we don't want to make an assumption they know now you've kindly lent us your profile for HBDI. So HBDI is the Herman brain dominance instrument. It's a way of understanding how people think. And this is your profile. It's split into four quadrants as everyone's is now. George, what does the left brain normally mean? George So the left brain is more of the rational brain. It's more of the logical brain. Whereas the right side of the brain is more the emotional side of the brain or more, the idea, the onceptualising side of the brain. Darren A. Smith Fantastic. So HBDIL, Hermann, asks us to understand our thinking preferences. Now, Hermann. Ned. Herman back in the 70s, split it also into the top half of the brain in the bottom half of the brain, giving us these four quadrants. Now, Herman, colour them as well. Obviously, they're not coloured in our head, but they are coloured here. So the further your profile goes towards this outer circle, the more you prefer to think in that way. But you can do all four of these. George Yes. Darren A. Smith Alright, now let's see from our other podcasts. George, what does the Blue quadrant mean? Darren A. Smith Yes. George So the blue is analytical side of things. This is the part where I don't really enjoy doing for me. Facts tend to be more boring, very flat, and very not imaginative. I'm more into the imagination side of things. The creativity. I think Leonardo da Vinci would agree with me somehow. Yeah. Darren A. Smith I think he was. I think he worked and you're in good company. Alright. So this is the fax. The fax quadrant will use an F just to make it easy. This is the future quadrant. And you talked about creativity. Entrepreneurs love this quadrant and this is where you are. You're quite creative. Lots of ideas. Then as we come down here, the Red Quadrant. Let me quiz you. What's the red quadrant? George So the Red Quadrant is more about the relational side of the quadrant. It's more like we liked how we relate with others. It's more about the passion we bring into it. It's about like you mentioned in one of our podcasts that for example, the red is very important because they tend to bring the team together and it's so even if sometimes people might think they're not really actually adding value, they are in the back scenes and they're really. Only the team together in a very efficient and effective way and even energising others to have better and more efficient results. George Yeah. Darren A. Smith You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And it's the Red Quadrant that largely gets to dismissed by people because it's emotional and particularly as a British man, I'm not supposed to show any emotion. I get that. The thing is, it's the red that drives us. You know, it chooses our career. We're passionate about retailing or engineering or whatever it is. It all comes from this Red quadrant. Let's move on to our last quadrant. Coming back to the left brain, now green, this is our project management. So this is feeling. George Planning. Darren A. Smith This is form. What do you remember around the green one? George So green is about planning. It's about structures, it's about systems. It's about like building systems, following structures, following rules, following guides. Being very like efficient on time, it's about time management. It's about all those like Stricker to the rules and very particular and very it's a box basically putting someone in a box. Darren A. Smith Perfect. Perfect. All right. So our four quadrants go blue, which is our fax based quadrant over to yellow, which is our future based quadrant. Red is our feelings quadrant and form structure is our green quadrant. Now just to reiterate, we can do all four, but the metaphor I use because I'm a yellow, I'm a creative, I talk in metaphors. I get that and it has its strength and its weakness as do all quadrants. The metaphor I use. Is that I can do yellow in fifth gear. Darren A. Smith It's quite easy for me. The idea's come to me quite a lot, whereas green I do it more like first gear. I can do it but it's hard and that's how we all should look at our profile. There are things that are easier for us to do and things that are harder for us to do. George Exactly. Darren A. Smith OK, so when you originally saw your profile, which was a few weeks ago now because we've done a few of these podcasts, what did you think in terms of that mirroring you or not? George Oh, it was spot on like, because basically when I did the test and I was asked the question where do you see like your own quadrants. I was more or less at 0.001 degree. Exactly where, where I got the results because I already knew. I know that I'm like my yellow and red are very prominent, the green is more when I'm at work and OverDrive and the blue is like I'd rather delegate it to someone else or. Darren A. Smith Fabulous. Now I get that I get that and also just for interest you've seen on your profile there's a solid black line showing where you prefer to think and also a dotted line. The dotted line is how we work, sorry, how we are under pressure. And normally pressure equals work in the modern day 'cause, there aren't many jobs now where you can sort of just not do a great deal. Unfortunately, like there were in the 80s. So you have two profiles and they don't always change, but they can do. So you have the profile of how I think normally and the profile of how I think when I'm under pressure and some people's change and distort others don't. George Like me. Yes. Yeah. Darren A. Smith Like yours so well, it's just on yours. They won't be able to see it on the camera, but what basically happens when you're under pressure is you actually go more green. You look for more structure and you do less red, so you are less emotional. How? How does that manifest itself in real life? Yeah. OK. George So usually when I when I'm at work, I really I love plan planning systems and I spend like lots and lots of time building the perfect system. Maybe it's the fear of whatever. So I build the systems and then I move to either the ideas or the facts and then like I the people or the red side, I leave it on really the very, very end. So yeah, this is how I would do it. Yeah. Darren A. Smith All right. And what we've talked about in other podcasts is how Herman and understanding your profile can help you in negotiation or in conflict. The way I like to understand the what I think is the biggest advantage of Herman is it enables us to talk with each other about each other in the third person. So, for instance, I might say, oh, I see why you need that meeting where you see the whites of my eyes because you're red or a green might say, OK, I see why you need a plan. I might say to agree, I see why you need a plan because you're agreeing you want to see, want to see all this in next steps. Darren A. Smith And it can help us avoid some of that conflict. But let's come back to the title of what we're talking about today. Prospects. So would you just bring to life? What do you think's going on in the real world? Why are people fed up with not being able to get hold of their prospects? George Well, my guess is as good as anyone, but I would say that. They're probably not using their own quadrant to their advantage. So for example, a rent when they I'm pretty sure that each quadrant has an advantage or a specific way that would make them convince a prospect in a better way. And it also goes to like in both ways, knowing the prosper which in which quadrant the prospect is helps a lot in order to help to like. Talk to them the way they want to be talked to and the way they want to be heard in order to give them what they want. That makes sense. Darren A. Smith Let me try and put you on the spot a little bit. I work on a Mac that's here. If I was trying to sell that over, let's say an e-mail marketing campaign and I was talking to a blue or I thought I'll try and connect with the Blues, what things might I share with them about this Mac that I'm trying to sell? Yes. George So since you're selling a Mac, you and you're talking about the blue Quadrant. You're probably going to emphasise on facts, so it's going to be like probably the pricing how much the Mac would cost, why it's better like you compare it to other to the, to APC, for example, why the Mac is better than the PC, what are the configurations? The like how many people bought the Mac versus how many people bought the PC. Those kind of things. So it's basically numbers. Darren A. Smith Yes, I could perfect. George You're putting all the good use of numbers, the good numbers that are better than like other competition. Yeah. Darren A. Smith Perfect....

October 27, 202323 min

I Don’t Know How to Manage Conflict at Work | George Araham

struUse HBDI to Manage Conflict at Work Looking to manage conflict at Work? Well, you can use HBDI, the Hermann Brain Dominance Instrument. Join us in this third instalment of this HBDI series with Darren Smith and George Araham. You Can Read the Full HBDI Transcript Below: Darren A. Smith: Hi, you're at the home of the world's stickiest learning. My name's Darren Smith, and this is George Araman. George, how are you? George: I'm great, Darren. Thank you. How are you today? Darren A. Smith: I am good. I'm good. I'm keen to share with our listeners about HBDI. This is the third in our series of podcasts and I'm just going to read the title out to make sure I get it absolutely right. It says I really don't know how to manage conflict at work. Use HBDI to manage conflicts at work, so that's the title of our podcast. And George has kindly allowed us to share his HBDI. Herman brain dominance instrument profile. So this is a profile. It's a bit like Myers Briggs is a bit like disc. It's a bit like insights. The reason we favour Herman is it's lovely and simple, simple to use and it really just has four colours and it's a it shows the thinking preference. Conflicts are a natural part of life Darren A. Smith: So there are blue, yellow, red, green and this shows almost the thinking preference of George's brain. So what this tells us is he likes to think in the big picture, creative. He likes to think in the people feelings area. But when it comes to facts, struggles a bit and when it comes to form and structure. Plan he struggles with that as well. Now the thing to say is we can do all four colours, we can do all of this. My metaphor is that George does yellow and red in 5th gear and maybe blue and green in second gear. George: Spot on. Darren A. Smith: All right. So that's a really quick summary and an overview of HPDI for anyone who hasn't seen it before. George, what have I missed on there? Your news HBDI, what have I missed that people would want to know? George: So far, like from what you mentioned, it seems great. We already talked a lot in our previous podcast like how we can overcome the differences and how we have like I think what would be really interesting for us to delve into is with regards to conflicts, how what is the best way to like manage conflicts from different perspectives. Darren A. Smith: OK. OK. Well, let's, let's start with conflict hard now. I've been doing soft skills as a training provider for 20 years and I've come to 11 absolute fact on conflict. It's hard. It really is. It's exhausting. It takes energy, it consumes our brain. It's those things that we lay down at night and think, oh, how did that happen? How did I get to that place? So conflict is not easy. And what I read a lot lately about is people. Let's avoid conflict. George: OK. Darren A. Smith: Just can't you imagine there's seven 8 billion people on the planet. With all these microcosms of banging together and they're gonna bang together, they're going to have conflict. They're not going to think all the same way. And do you know that's all right. We don't have to agree. George: Yeah. And it's a good thing, or else with the own robots. If I'm thinking the same way. Darren A. Smith: Well, we would, we would. Well, let me give you an example. So George, what's your favourite food favourite meal? George: Depends on the like. I would say sushi or pizza or. Darren A. Smith: OK, so you love sushi. I mean, I happen to as well, but let's say you love sushi and I didn't. And I liked only fish and chips. That's OK. Now we have a small conflict there. We don't have to disagree, but let's take that into the more passionate disagreements that we might have. It's still OK. It's still OK that you have a different perspective to me. And maybe that's a good thing that you have a different perspective to me. George: Yeah. Darren A. Smith: OK, so conflict is hard. George: I was just like, I was just wondering if you had like. In in your years of experience as a trainer, if you could give us an example of a conflict that you experienced or that you witnessed. That can maybe represent each of the four quadrants, the blue, the red, the like either on both sides or in the same side. So for example a red fighting a red, yellow, red or yellow and maybe like the opposite quadrants and how things were. Like we're actually diving deep into the practicality and things now. Darren A. Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Well, let me do it in two ways. First, let's do it. Something close to home. Moving home, our house, our home. Where we all go back to. So let's take these, these four colours. So if a blue is buying a home, well, let me ask you. They're the facts. But fact based people, what do you think they're looking for in a home? George: OK. How much does it cost? How much can I sell it later on? Is the location prime? How can I improve? Sorry. Darren A. Smith: How far is go? George: Yeah, basically everything that's factored like how many square metres is the apartment? Do we have a garden? Do we have a terrace? Do we have, like, any secret chambers? Darren A. Smith: Yes. Yes, brilliant. And it might be. It's 3.1 miles to the school. That's an interesting fact. It costs £150 to heat it per month. OK, these are all facts. And the Blues are absolutely right. They're seeking information. George: True. Yeah. Darren A. Smith: Then then let's move over to our yellows. Our big picture people. What are they looking for, do you think? George: Actually the example I just gave, so they're looking for the Harry Potter kind of secret chamber, the big ideas, the beautiful. Villa that is hidden somewhere in the wander nurse or maybe in the middle of the like something beautiful. Big, inspiring something. When you wake up, you're like, whoa, this is my home. So it's more like it's a bit close. I think when it comes to home with Reds and yellow. But maybe the idea is bigger. You know, if it makes sense. Darren A. Smith: OK, OK. So these guys were looking for a home. They're looking for. How does it sit within my life? Can I live here comfortably? If we're a young family, will it allow us to have another child? Could I knock down that wall? Put that wall in and make a lovely Conservatory. These are the things that yellows are looking for. So they're, they're creative. They're big, picture their future. And then let's come to our greens. Our next steps. What do you think these guys are looking for in a house? George: So when how are gonna we do the installments? When are gonna we pay the installments? How many installments can we pay? Darren A. Smith: Yeah. George: How far is maybe the house from the office? Darren A. Smith: You're right. They're planning their day. They're planning their new. Yeah, they're planning weekends where they've gotta go and visit the in laws. They're thinking about all those good things. All right, fabulous. And then let's come to our Reds. Our feelings. People type people. What are they looking for? George: Planning and process and stuff like this. Yeah. The feelings I wanna live by the sea. I wanna live by the mountain. I wanna live here. This reminds me of that. This is. Oh, I'm nostalgic. I'm looking at there and like those kinds of things. Darren A. Smith: Brilliant. Brilliant. OK, so we understand our four quadrants and how they think. Now let me ask you a question. Are any of them wrong? Of course. So what we then have is, let's say these four people were buying a house together and the Blues pushing for the facts and the yellow for the creative, and you get the idea. But none of them are wrong. And what we've got to do is accept that people have different views to us and it might be using the Herm model that we can then talk about each other with each other as third party. So I might say to you, George, I want to buy this house. I'm a yellow. You're red. I can see why you feel that way. Darren A. Smith: That's important to you. It's important that it feels good because it's next to the sea and I'm, oh, I want to knock down this room and change it into three rooms. You might say, OK, I can see that vision. Thank you for helping me. George: That's easy part. Darren A. Smith: So none of none of these perspectives are wrong, and yet they all cause conflict. And the more conflict happens across because it's harder to understand. George: Yeah. Now this is like I was gonna ask like imagine you have a Philly like a red person versus a blue person. One is gonna talk about feelings, the other is gonna talk about facts like no, the investment is gonna cost like £500,000. The other is gonna be like be like. But I love this home with me. It's me. Feel nostalgic. It makes me feel. So how do you resolve that conflict? How can you like each one understands logically or in their mind. But like the their visions are like so far apart that. Darren A. Smith: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough, it's tough and it's not gonna be easy. Conflict coming back to what I said is hard. So the first step is accepting that everyone thinks the same way we do. OK, so I think, like this, I accept. You feel like that or think that or think this way. So that's the first part. The second part is we need to be able to articulate it. George: Yeah. OK. Darren A. Smith: So I'm articulating that because I'm yellow, I think like this, I see this and that will help with the communication because I'm a red. I feel this I'm going to try and expand all my feelings to help you understand him and then wouldn't it be great if we can put all those views together and buy the house that suits them all? George: Yeah. Darren A. Smith: Or agree a way that we might problem solve it together. Where we're what we're not going to do is take 4 coloured straws, pick one and that's who we go with. But we might agree that one of the first things we need to accept is that we're going to buy in