Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

Hosted by Legal Talk Network

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211

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Oct 2026

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About the show

Are you hungry for more clients? Tired of wasting time (and money) on marketing that doesn’t work? This podcast serves up real-world tips and proven digital marketing strategies that actually drive results for law firms. Hosted by Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam—two legal marketing pros who’ve been in the trenches. You’ll get practical advice on client acquisition, website teardowns, and what’s actually working for lawyers today—all with a touch of mirth. Congratulations, you found it—THE podcast for lawyers who want to grow their practice! So, if you’re ready to take your business to the next level, pull up a seat and dig in with Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.

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October 21, 20261 hr 3 min

Conference Season Rewind: Our Best AI Conversation with Filevine’s Dr. Cain Elliott

Conference season is here, and Gyi and Conrad are hitting the road. Before they head to the last ever Great Legal Marketing Summit, they’re replaying one of their favorite interviews, recorded at last year’s event with Dr. Cain Elliott of Filevine. Cain runs Filevine’s skunkworks team. His job is to build things three to five years ahead of their time and watch most of them fail. He’s also a former philosophy professor, so when he explains how AI actually works, he does it with a hamburger. Cain and the guys get into why AI hallucinations are more human than you’d think and what separates a closed system from dumping files into ChatGPT. They also cover why you can’t talk an LLM into recommending your firm, and whether we’re in an AI bubble.    The News: Google is poisoning the results it serves to rank trackers, according to new research from Nozzle. Add it to the pile of reasons to stop obsessing over rankings. And if your vendor sells you an “AI visibility score,” ask how they’re accounting for it. Remember those AI-generated Google Business Profiles from the Alexander Shunnarah episode? They’re gone. Catch up here: Fake Listings, AI Reviews… Where the Hell Is Google? Come see LHLM on the road, everybody! Here’s where we’ll be:   Gyi and Cain dig into the Vals AI Legal Research Report, where AI beat the lawyers. Cain’s take: legal research is tricky, and benchmarks don’t tell the whole story.  Conrad loves high-end mechanical pencils. This podcast is not sponsored by them, but here’s a LAMY 2000 for the fellow nerds. Connect with Dr. Cain Elliott on LinkedIn Thank you to our incredible sponsors: Eve Legal, ALPS Insurance, Juvo Leads, CallRail, and Lawmatics!

October 14, 202650 min

Legal Recourse for Online Vandalism – Can Anything Be Done?

Gyi and Conrad have seen their fair share of scummy actors online, and they have both experienced targeted attacks on their Google Business Profiles. What’s a business owner to do? ----- Vandalism, libel, fake reviews… yikes. In today’s online business arena, competitors sometimes stoop pretty low to try to undermine your reputation. If you find yourself in the midst of just such a difficulty, there are legal frameworks to help you identify perpetrators and seek restoration for your business. Conrad talks with Daniel Powell, a litigator and leader in the internet defamation field, to discuss the processes of discovering vandals, determining case viability, and tailoring a successful plan of action for your business.   The News: Pursuant to last week’s episode, the guys give an update on what has come of their exposé on the sketchy doings of the Alexander Shunnarah Law Firm. Here’s the episode: Fake Listings, AI Reviews… Where the Hell Is Google?   Well, Google’s found another way to nickel & dime your business. As of October 1st, Google LSAs are charging for any call (even unanswered ones) that last longer than 20 seconds. Not sure how much we care, but Google is adding multimodal search data to your Search Console. Might as well take a look.  No more need for the human underlings to bother with algebra! – OpenAI Solves Math Come see LHLM on the Road, everybody! Here’s where we’ll be: Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  Ask us a question!  Listen Next:  What is AI Visibility Anyway?  Connect: Leave Us an Apple Review  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM 

October 7, 202636 min

Fake Listings, AI Reviews… Where the Hell Is Google?

Gyi and Conrad take a trip into the dirty underbelly of the interwebs, where Google Business Profile spam is alive, well, and somehow racking up five-star reviews.  The template is easy to spot once you know it: a generic listing named "City + Car Accident Lawyer," 10 to 20 five-star reviews written within a few weeks (mostly by people who have never reviewed anything else), AI video testimonials, an AI-built website with no lawyers (and no disclaimers), and a terms page that links back to the homepage. At least there's a link. But call the number, fill out the form, or send a text, and according to what Conrad and a group of fellow marketers pieced together, you land in the intake system of Alexander Shunnarah Trial Attorneys. The pattern has turned up from Alabama to Louisiana to New Jersey.  Just a lead vendor gone rogue? Conrad isn't buying it. The guys also cover how to fight back when this shows up in your backyard, why your state bar probably isn't the answer, and the bigger question hanging over all of it: where is Google?  Gyi and Conrad reached out to Shunnarah's digital marketing director with an invitation to come on the show and respond. That invitation still stands.    The News:   Kate Nachazel is moving on from Fireproof after her run as president. Congrats, Kate! Between her and Dave Thomas leaving Law Tigers, we're holding out hope for a motorcycle-centric PI coaching program.  Business Insider reports that Mark Liu's startup, Arceus, landed $17 million to pair a law firm with contract-review software, part of a new wave of "neo firms." (Conrad thinks that sounds like something you put on a blister.) Gyi's advice: do what the bots can't (nod to Ted DeBettencourt for that oh-so-catchy phrase).  Gyi and Conrad are hitting the road: the final (or is it?) Great Legal Marketing Summit with Ben Glass, the DC Bar Practice 360 conference, the Washington State Bar Solo & Small Conference, the Minnesota Solo and Small Firm Conference, ClioCon in Boston, and LEX Summit in San Diego, where they'll be broadcasting live (and you thought your October was busy).   The Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit is headed to Brazos Hall in Austin in 2027. Pronounce it like a Texan. Get your tickets!  Resources:  Get the dirt on the content featured in this week’s episode: AI and SPAM team up in Alabama and beyond...  Do your community a favor, and report a spam Google Business Profile listing.  Hey you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show. Ask us a question! Our sincerest thanks to our super cool sponsors: CallRail, Alps Insurance, Eve, Lawmatics, and Juvo Leads! Chapters: 01:14 Introduction and News Highlights 02:16 Legal Marketing Trends and AI Disruption 06:48 Spam Google Business Profiles: The Underbelly of Legal Marketing 07:02 The Responsibility of Platforms like Google 18:29 Addressing the Spam Issue: Solutions and Accountability 23:12 The Role of Major Law Firms in Legal Marketing 26:25 Accountability in Lead Generation 29:25 Understanding the Impact of Lead Generation 31:03 The Need for Industry Awareness

September 30, 202639 min

Muckraking, Lovable, and Why Nobody Cares About Your Firm's LinkedIn Page

This week we're sharing one of our most favoritest episodes of Office Hours. Conrad and Gyi dig into marketing questions from lawyers just like you, and share tactical advice for growing your law firm.  By the way, did you know you can join the guys every week at 1pm ET for Office Hours and ask your marketing questions? Details below.  Conrad starts with some muckraking about Business of Law: EvenUp apparently paid to keep its competitors out of the event, and the event pulled their booths at the last minute. Our sponsor, Eve, got shoved out too, so we'll be over here drinking from our Eve water bottles in solidarity. EvenUp and National Trial Lawyers: you’ve got some explaining to do. Then the guys tackle a handful of listener questions. What actually goes wrong when you relaunch a website? Did leaving WordPress for Lovable wreck your rankings? How often should you rebuild? And should you post on your personal LinkedIn or your firm's page?  Plus, the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit 3.0 is headed to Austin, May 4–6. Get ready, Texas, here we come! ----- The 2027 Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit is locked and loaded. Grab an early bird ticket and save some $$. Join Gyi and Conrad for Office Hours, Thursdays at 1 PM ET on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Youtube! Submit your questions in real time, send them in advance via our Slack channel or connect with us on LinkedIn. You can also submit questions via this handy dandy Riverside feature. Special thanks to our listeners who contributed questions to this week’s episode: Kelly Roedema of RSH Legal; The Hometown Lawyer Joshua Hodges; and Mr. Mike Howard! A big thank you to our amazing sponsors: Eve, Lawmatics, CallRail, Juvo Leads, and ALPS Insurance!

September 23, 20261 hr 4 min

Super Customer Experience Powers – Live from CX Summit

Caring for clients should be the cornerstone of your customer experience ideology and a driving force in your marketing. Gyi and Conrad chat with Andy Seavers and answer your questions on all things CX.  ------ Your organization becomes more valuable when your clients have a phenomenal customer experience. How? Live from CX Summit, Gyi and Conrad welcome Andy Seavers of Case Status to discuss foundational client experience strategies, AI deployments in CX, and how marketing with CX in mind drives growth for your business. Happy clients give great referrals to your firm, dear lawyers!  Later, the guys answer your questions live at the conference, giving all sorts of tactical advice for your legal marketing ventures.  The News: Best wishes to our friend Dave Thomas of Law Tigers. We wish you well on your next venture! Case Status XOS was just released.  Private equity firms, take note – Warren and Ocasio-Cortez Want to Ban Private Equity From Owning Doctors' Practices, and Illinois Takes Aim at Legal MSOs: What HB 5487 Could Mean for the Future of Law Firm Investments. OpenAI just announced a reimagination of advertising, this time featuring chatbots.  Both Filevine and Smart Advocate recently announced integrations with Claude.  The way we use the internet is changing rapidly, folks – Google is pushing you to AI Mode in their browser.    Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  Ask us a question!  Listen Next: How To Spend $100K  Connect: Leave Us an Apple Review  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM   

September 16, 202641 min

CallRail's New Tricks (Yes, We're Pandering, But Hear Us Out)

CallRail has been a partner of the show for nearly five years, and about 95% of our Summit audience already uses it. So instead of another intro-level rundown, we brought on Chris Nelson from CallRail to go deeper into the newest integrations they've rolled out with Clio, Smokeball, Lawmatics, DocketWise, and Smart Advocate. We get into what these integrations actually do: automatic contact updates, AI voice assist that recognizes known callers and personalizes the conversation, whisper messages, and lead qualification. Plus, a philosophical detour on why "set it and forget it" doesn't work for AI receptionists any more than it works for a new hire. Gyi and Conrad also push on attribution: why over-crediting last-touch data makes your marketing look better (or worse) than it actually is, and where call data plus CRM integration closes that gap. Yes, it's a sponsor conversation. We're upfront about that. But if you're already a CallRail user and haven't peeled back the onion on what it can actually do, then it's worth a listen. Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  ⁠Ask us a question!⁠  The 2026 Lunch Hour Legal Marketing was such a success, we are already laying the groundwork for our 2027 event. Stay tuned for more details! Thank you, sponsors! CallRail, Juvo Leads, Lawmatics, ALPS Insurance, and Eve

September 9, 202635 min

ChatGPT Ads Are Here. Should Lawyers Jump In?

Is ChatGPT advertising your next big marketing win? Gyi and Conrad lay out what ChatGPT seems to be offering thus far, and then give you an inside look at what their own agencies have seen in their ad experiments on the platform.  ----- It sounds great to advertise on ChatGPT, right? Their pay-per-click price is a tiny fraction of Google’s, and you want to be the first in your market to jump in and take advantage of this new, fresh advertising territory… right? RIGHT? Well, hold your horses, dear lawyer. Let’s join Gyi and Conrad in taking a deeply scrutinizing look at what ChatGPT is offering and what you’re likely to get out of it at this point in the game.  Later, to help you get an even better view of the situation, the guys share the nitty gritty details of the results of their own experimentation with ChatGPT advertising.  The News: Mockingbird Marketing is hiring an Account Coordinator!  Eve is coming on as a sponsor, and we’re thrilled to have them on board. As discussed, ChatGPT ads are available for law firms, so here’s the rundown: Ad policies | OpenAI. The DOJ is weighing in on Fair Use in AI training.  Instagram will demote AI-generated influencers if they don't clearly label their account, so maybe at least a little AI slop will move on out of your feed. (No promises.)  Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  Ask us a question!  Listen Next:  What is AI Visibility Anyway? Connect: Leave Us an Apple Review  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM 

September 2, 202641 min

Conversations From 'A Seat at the Table', Part II: Ethics, Money, and the Art of the MSO Deal

We're heading back to Vista Consulting Team's "A Seat at the Table" event for one of the best conversations Conrad and Gyi had there, and it’s been sitting in the vault for a reason. Josh Porte, Partner and M&A Attorney at Holland & Knight, joins the guys to break down the ethics and mechanics of MSO deals, and with private equity continuing to move into law firms, this one's more relevant now than when it was recorded. Josh co-leads Holland & Knight's legal services transactions team and works both sides of these deals, buyers and sellers. He breaks down Rule 5.4 and Rule 5.3, the two rules that actually shape how an MSO can be structured and how money is allowed to move between the MSO and the law firm; plus transfer pricing, AI-native law firm structures, rollover equity instead of non-competes, and how EBITDA multiples drive valuation. Whether or not you're interested in dancing with the PE people, Josh makes the case for running your firm as if it's always ready to be sold. The News: Turns out a lot of the internet isn't written by people anymore: How Much of the Internet Is Written With AI? Morgan & Morgan gets blocked from the Harvard body-parts case over an old AI citation sanction:  Morgan & Morgan Atty Barred From Harvard Suit Over AI Error And a Georgia arbitrator hits Morgan & Morgan with $4.3M for settling a case without the client's permission: Marietta man wins $4.3M in fight against Morgan & Morgan Your rank tracker is about to get a lot less reliable: Google confirms deploying goto URL redirects to search results links Want to hear more about what we learned from ‘A Seat at the Table’? There’s a place for that: Tidbits - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing  Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  Ask us a question!  On the road again… We’ll be joining our good friends at Case Status CX Summit for a live episode! CX Summit 2026 | The Legal Client Experience Conference A special thanks to our supportive sponsors: Juvo Leads, Lawmatics, CallRail, Eve, and ALPS Insurance!

August 26, 202648 min

A Tale of Two CRMs… ah, hell. Let’s just vibe code it.

Waffling between a couple of lead management tools? Think you should just make your own? Let’s see what the pros (aka, Guy and Conrad Sam) think. Oh, and you bet we’re gonna make fun of Avvo.  ----- First, if you haven’t thought through your firm’s need for lead management software, you might be behind in the grand scheme of things. But, never fear—Gyi and Conrad are here to talk you through how to suss out your CRM essentials and make a smart, business-building software choice. And, let’s take a particular moment to examine whether you can vibe code your way to a high quality solution.  Later, y’all know we love poking holes in survey data reports, so let’s do it again! Today’s victim is the 2026 Law Firm Growth Report from Avvo. The guys pick apart the bad and even graciously give a little credit where credit is due. The bottom line: don’t assume these surveys are the end all be all of, well, anything.    The News: Do you think the googly Googs solved all the problems with this one? – Google releases August 2026 spam update. Gyi ran across a weird ChatGPT ads transparency issue. What’s the deal here, anyway? Maybe spamming the crap out of Reddit is taking its toll – Reddit’s ChatGPT Search citations fell 86% in four days: Report. We’ll be joining our good friends at Case Status CX Summit for a live episode! CX Summit 2026 | The Legal Client Experience Conference Hey, you! Send us a question and we might just feature it on the show.  Ask us a question!  Listen Next: Live! From the 2026 Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit Connect: Leave Us an Apple Review  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube  Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM   

August 19, 20261 hr 1 min

Live! From the 2026 Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit

The 2026 Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit has come to an end, but boy, oh boy, did we capture some great questions in our live episode recording at the Acme Feed & Seed! To rub the FOMO in a little deeper for all those who skipped this year’s event, we have a special taste of the energy and thought-provoking inquiries we discussed on stage in Nashville to a packed and sweaty group of lawyers and in-house marketers. Gyi and Conrad tackle the news events of the week before going straight to some heated (literally) Q&A with our guests. If you missed the event, the outpouring of photos and accolades on social media are fantastic, but they still don’t quite capture the energy that we felt in that room with our special community. It was a magical week filled with mythical creatures and t-shirt cannon assaults. You just had to be there.   We want to give a special thank you to everyone who joined us in Nashville last week! We are truly grateful that you spent your time with us, and we hope you walked away feeling confident that you made the right choice in traveling to spend the week at the Gyi and Conrad show. Thank you to our incredible sponsors, without whom the event would not have been quite as successful: Juvo Leads, Lawmatics, CallRail, ALPS Lawyers’ Insurance, and our newest addition the LHLM Sponsors, Eve! Have unanswered questions? Drop us a line! Connect with us on social, and direct email inquiries to Jessica@lunchhourlegalmarketing.com.   Chapters 00:00 – Intro: Sweating in Nashville 01:12 – News: AI Watermarks & Google Slop Detection 02:50 – News: Google AI Overviews Pulling from Listicle Sites 05:14 – Summit Recap: Highlights & Giving New Voices the Stage 06:12 – Summit Recap: The Endorsed Sponsor Model & Kicking Out Vendors 07:20 – Summit Recap: Ignite Talks & the Casey Byrus Award 08:36 – Summit Recap: Sasquatch, a Mermaid, and the T-Shirt Cannon Incident 09:09 – Audience Q&A: DIY Ways to Measure Brand Awareness 16:28 – Audience Q&A: Dipping a Toe into Brand Advertising (Meta, Reddit) 24:52 – Audience Q&A: Getting Authentic Google Reviews & Avoiding Silent Review Issues 31:58 – Audience Q&A: Getting Involved in Reddit Discussions Without Getting Banned 37:58 – Audience Q&A: Where First Dollars Go for Direct Response 39:40 – Audience Q&A: Agentic AI & SEO — Promise and Risk 48:01 – Audience Q&A: LinkedIn's Role in Legal Marketing 53:03 – Audience Q&A: Marketing Spend & Satellite Office Rent in the P&L 54:40 – Audience Q&A: Breaking into the Bilingual/Hispanic Market 59:19 – Outro & Sign-Off

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