Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

Hosted by Jason Miller & Makenzie Wirth

Business Management

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Episodes

274

Latest episode

Oct 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Doeren Mayhew's Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explain the ESOP transaction process and address ESOPs from a business owner's perspective. They illuminate the simplicity of ESOPs and debunk common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated. -- “Doeren Mayhew" is the brand name under which Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide professional services. Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC (and its subsidiary entities) practice as an alternative practice structure in accordance with the AICPA Code of Professional Conduct and applicable law, regulations and professional standards. Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC is a licensed independent CPA firm that provides attest services to its clients, and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide tax and business consulting services to their clients. Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC, DM Payroll Solutions, Doeren Mayhew Capital Advisors and their subsidiary entities are not licensed CPA firms.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

October 16, 2026Episode 3838 min

S7EP38 - Interview with Josh Sutton, Employee Benefit Attorney

The fastest way to ruin an ESOP is to focus on the tax benefits and ignore the rules—and the people—who will live with the plan afterward. In this episode, Jason Miller interviews Joshua Sutton, an employee benefits attorney, about why Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) are complex yet rewarding when approached with the right mindset and team. Jason and Josh discuss what sets an ESOP apart from other exit strategies, covering everything from complex tax code requirements and ERISA fiduciary duties to the reality that an ESOP cannot be structured like a standard sale to private equity or a strategic buyer. If you’re seeking a succession plan that keeps leadership in operational control while fostering an employee ownership culture, this episode covers what to investigate, what to question and where the real risks lie. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

October 7, 2026Episode 3727 min

S7EP37 - The Founder Who Can't Get Out of the Way

Employee stock ownership plan (ESOP) transitions can look complete on paper yet the company often remains psychologically and operationally centered on the founder. In this episode, Jason Miller unpacks why this disconnect happens and why it often goes unnoticed until the first tough quarter. He explains that transferring shares is not the same as transferring leadership, authority, identity and knowledge. Jason shares warning signs to watch for before closing and offers a practical transition plan: draft the founder’s future job description, define intervention guidelines in advance, transfer relationships while active coaching is possible, build a leadership bench with real decision-making authority, fund the operating plan within the transaction and align conflicts and incentives. If you’re preparing for an employee ownership transition, let this episode be your roadmap for effective governance, succession planning and long-term ESOP success. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

September 18, 2026Episode 3643 min

S7EP36 - Interview with Lord and Sons Construction, Inc.

How do you protect a legacy without selling out the people who built it? In this episode, Jason Miller interviews Spike Lord, President of Lord and Son Construction, Inc. and Ryan Chavers, Director of Operations, about a Fort Walton Beach, Florida construction company built on decades of steady work, long careers and loyalty. They explore the family business’s history, the culture that has kept people with the company for decades and why an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) became the right path for preserving the company’s legacy and preparing for the next generation. Spike and Ryan share their firsthand experience navigating the ESOP transaction, from planning and choosing experienced advisors to understanding the financial responsibility of the transition and shifting from an employee mindset to an ownership mindset. They discuss the advantages and benefits of an ESOP, including business succession and giving employees a greater stake in the future. Now on the other side of the transaction, they share lessons for business owners considering employee ownership. Their advice: educate yourself, learn from other ESOP companies, surround yourself with experienced advisors and understand the financial and operational considerations involved in the transition. Considering an ESOP for your business? Learn how thoughtful ESOP planning and experienced advisory support can help you evaluate the path to employee ownership, navigate the transition and build a stronger future for your company and its people. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

September 3, 2026Episode 3531 min

S7EP35 - Foundations of Transition: Value Creation, Protection & Risk Awareness

Your business might be profitable and still be worth less than you think. In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland continue their Foundations of Transition series by discussing value creation, protection and risk awareness. They explore how business owners can begin viewing their company through the eyes of an outside buyer or Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) trustee, focusing on what drives enterprise value, where value may be quietly leaking and what risks could impact a future transaction. Other factors they address include adjusted EBITDA, management depth, customer concentration, working capital, financial reporting, key-person dependency and reputational risk. Ultimately, this episode encourages business owners to identify and address potential risks before entering an ESOP transaction, while there is still time to strengthen the business, protect its value and prepare for a successful ownership transition. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

August 28, 2026Episode 349 min

S7EP34 - A Year From Now: What Will Exist Because You Started Today?

What can happen in one year when you stop waiting for the perfect moment and start taking action? In this episode, Jason Miller looks back at a year of personal and professional progress—not as a victory lap, but as evidence of what happens when you turn decisions into action and create tangible proof of progress. This episode is about more than Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs). It's about taking meaningful action when the outcome isn't guaranteed. A year from now, what will exist because you started today? View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

August 20, 2026Episode 3324 min

S7EP33 - Forecasting for an ESOP: Planning for a Future You Can’t Predict

Determining if an employee stock ownership plan, or ESOP, is right for your company starts with a straightforward but sometimes challenging question: Where do you see your business heading, and why? In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explore how ESOP planning and forecasting empower owners to prepare for a transaction and make informed decisions throughout the process. They break down the essential components of a solid forecast, including historical performance, business drivers, capacity, backlog, bonding capacity, working capital, labor, margins and other key assumptions. The discussion also covers how these projections impact valuation, transaction feasibility and the overall benefits of an ESOP. Ultimately, a strong forecast isn’t about getting every number right; it’s about giving owners a realistic view of where the business is going and helping them make informed decisions about what comes next. This episode provides practical insight into the advantages of an ESOP and the role of ESOP advisory in preparing for a successful transition. For owners considering professional ESOP advisory services, this conversation offers a helpful foundation for understanding the planning and forecasting process. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

August 14, 2026Episode 3251 min

S7EP32 - Interview with NCEO's Corey Rosen: The Future of Employee Ownership

Washington is sending new signals about employee ownership, but the headlines don’t help much if you’re a business owner trying to decide whether an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) is actually feasible. In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland welcome back Corey Rosen from the National Center for Employee Ownership to discuss the latest developments shaping the future of employee ownership. Corey breaks down key legislative efforts, including the Retire Through Ownership Act, the American Ownership Resilience Act and initiatives to fund the WORK Act. He also explains how the regulatory environment for ESOPs continues to evolve and addresses common perceptions around ESOP litigation risk and transaction costs. Other topics include the impact employee ownership can have on recruitment, retention, workplace culture and long-term business continuity. Corey shares recent NCEO research on employee retention, explains why ownership and a strong culture work best together, and offers practical tips for owners beginning ESOP planning. From educating yourself on available options to learning from existing ESOP companies, this episode provides timely insight into the benefits of employee ownership and what it could mean for business owners considering their next chapter. For those seeking professional ESOP advisory services, this conversation offers valuable information about the process. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

August 6, 2026Episode 3126 min

S7EP31 - Foundations of Transition: Process Maturity & Operational Strength

Your processes may be well documented, but your operations can still be fragile. In this episode of the Foundations of Transition series, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explore process maturity and operational strength. They discuss why strong operations involve more than documented procedures and how building a culture of continuous improvement can help owners prepare for an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP). By examining how work actually flows through a business, rather than relying solely on organizational charts or written processes, owners can uncover hidden bottlenecks, operational risks and opportunities to create a more resilient organization. Jason and Makenzie explore how curiosity, undocumented workarounds, routine habits and “hero” employees can create dependencies that limit growth and make a business more difficult to transfer. They provide practical questions owners can ask to better understand how work is accomplished, and explain how operational strength supports ESOP planning, business continuity and a successful ownership transition. For owners considering the benefits of an ESOP, this episode highlights how ESOP advisory and professional ESOP advisory services can help prepare a company for its next chapter. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

July 29, 2026Episode 3039 min

S7EP30 - S Corp vs. C Corp ESOPs: Which Structure is Right for You?

The most common question we hear may seem simple, but it can have an impact on the outcome of an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) transaction. Should you remain an S corporation or convert to a C corporation? In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth break down the key differences between the two structures and how each one affects the company and its selling shareholders. They also discuss the unique tax advantages and potential benefits associated with each approach. From S corporation tax exemptions to Section 1042 capital gains deferral, this conversation highlights the factors that influence the decision, including ownership goals, liquidity needs, future growth plans, financing strategy and long-term succession objectives. Whether you are just beginning ESOP planning, exploring an ESOP or evaluating transaction structures, this episode provides a practical framework for understanding why there is no one-size-fits-all answer. The right structure depends on your specific goals and circumstances, and professional ESOP advisory services can help owners evaluate the options. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe

July 22, 2026Episode 2913 min

S7EP29 - The ESOP Mandela Effect

Makenzie Wirth explores the Mandela Effect and how our memories influence the stories we tell ourselves. Many business owners explore an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) with fragmented information gathered from other owners’ experiences—some accurate, some not. These stories can shape important decisions about ESOP planning, the benefits of an ESOP and the perceived advantages of employee ownership. Makenzie discusses common ESOP misconceptions, clarifies which aspects are unique to each transaction and highlights insights uncovered during the ESOP process that can change how owners view employee ownership. For business owners seeking guidance, the episode also emphasizes the value of ESOP advisory and professional ESOP advisory services when evaluating whether an ESOP is right for their company. View Doeren Mayhew's ESOP advisory services: https://www.doeren.com/services/advisory/esop-advisory Don't miss the latest episodes and updates. Subscribe to our podcast newsletter: https://www.doeren.com/subscribe