Journey to an ESOP & Beyond

Hosted by Jason Miller & Makenzie Wirth

Business Management

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Episodes

268

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

ESOPs are gaining traction. In the "Journey to an ESOP & Beyond” podcast, Doeren Mayhew's Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explain the ESOP transaction process and address ESOPs from a business owner's perspective. They illuminate the simplicity of ESOPs and debunk common misconceptions that ESOPs are immensely costly and complicated. -- “Doeren Mayhew" is the brand name under which Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide professional services. Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC (and its subsidiary entities) practice as an alternative practice structure in accordance with the AICPA Code of Professional Conduct and applicable law, regulations and professional standards. Doeren Mayhew Assurance, PC is a licensed independent CPA firm that provides attest services to its clients, and Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC and its subsidiary entities provide tax and business consulting services to their clients. Doeren Mayhew Advisors, LLC, DM Payroll Solutions, Doeren Mayhew Capital Advisors and their subsidiary entities are not licensed CPA firms.

Listen to episodes

60 recent

August 20, 2026Episode 3324 min

EP33 - Forecasting for an ESOP: Planning for a Future You Can’t Predict

The best way to determine whether an ESOP plan holds up is simple—and uncomfortable: tell us where you think the company is headed and prove why. In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explore how forecasting can help owners prepare for an ESOP transaction and make better decisions along the way. They explore the key inputs behind a reasonable forecast, including historical performance, business drivers, capacity, and other assumptions—and how those projections can influence valuation and transaction feasibility. They also discuss comparing forecasts to actual results, building different scenarios, and avoiding overly optimistic assumptions. how factors such as backlog, bonding capacity, working capital, labor, and margins can shape the outlook. Ultimately, a strong forecast isn’t about getting every number right. It’s about giving owners a realistic view of where the business is going—and helping owners make informed decisions about what comes next.

August 14, 2026Episode 3251 min

EP32 - Interview with NCEO's Corey Rosen: The Future of Employee Ownership

Washington is sending new signals about employee ownership, but the headlines don’t help much if you’re a business owner trying to decide whether an ESOP is actually doable. In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland welcome back Corey Rosen from the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO) to discuss the latest developments shaping the future of employee ownership. Corey breaks down key legislative efforts, including the Retire Through Ownership Act, the American Ownership Resilience Act, and efforts to fund the WORK Act. He also shares how the regulatory environment surrounding ESOPs continues to evolve and addresses common perceptions surrounding ESOP litigation risk and transaction costs. Other topics they explore include the impact employee ownership can have on recruitment, retention, workplace culture, and long-term business continuity. Corey shares recent NCEO research on employee retention, explains why ownership and a strong culture work best together, and offers practical guidance for owners beginning to explore an ESOP. From educating yourself on the available options to learning from existing ESOP companies, this episode provides a timely look at the growing momentum behind employee ownership and what it could mean for business owners considering their next chapter.

August 6, 2026Episode 3126 min

EP31 - Foundations of Transition: Process Maturity & Operational Strength

Your processes can be documented, and your operations can still be fragile. In this episode of the Foundations of Transition series, Jason Miller and Makenzie Ragland explore the eighth foundation: Process Maturity and Operational Strength. They discuss why strong operations involve more than just having documented procedures and focus on building an organization that is curious enough to improve continuously. By examining how work actually flows through a business rather than relying on organizational charts or written processes, owners can uncover hidden bottlenecks, operational risks, and opportunities to create a more resilient organization. Additionally, they also explore the role of curiosity in developing a transferable business, explaining how "hero" employees, undocumented workarounds, and routine habits can quietly create dependencies that limit growth. They provide practical questions that owners can ask to gain a clearer understanding of how work is actually accomplished and explain why creating a culture of continuous improvement not only strengthens daily operations but also prepares a business for a successful ownership transition.

July 29, 2026Episode 3039 min

EP30 - S Corp vs. C Corp ESOPs: Which Structure is Right for You?

The most common question we hear may seem simple, but it can significantly change the outcome of a deal. Should you remain an S corporation or convert to a C corporation? In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth break down the key differences between the two structures and how each one affects the company and its selling shareholders. They also discuss the unique tax advantages associated with each approach. From S corporation tax exemptions to Section 1042 capital gains deferral, this conversation highlights the various factors that influence your decision, including ownership goals, liquidity needs, future growth plans, financing strategy, and long-term succession objectives. Whether you are just starting to explore an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) or evaluating transaction structures, this episode provides a practical framework for understanding why there is no one-size-fits-all answer. The right structure depends on your specific goals and circumstances.

July 22, 2026Episode 2913 min

EP29 - The ESOP Mandela Effect

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth delves into the Mandela Effect and how our memories influence the stories we tell ourselves. Many business owners begin their exploration of Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) with fragmented information they have gathered from the experiences of others—some of which may be accurate and some not. These stories can subtly influence significant decisions. Makenzie discusses the common misconceptions surrounding ESOPs, clarifies which elements are unique to each transaction, and highlights insights revealed during the ESOP process that can drastically alter how owners perceive employee ownership.

July 10, 2026Episode 2822 min

EP28 - Your Algorithm is a Mirror

Your feed feels personal for a reason, and it’s not magic. Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth dig into the idea that the “algorithm” isn’t a villain with a secret agenda. It’s an objective system built on subjective inputs, and the input it cares about most is your attention. We share real snapshots from our own algorithms and what they might mean beneath the surface: curiosity, problem-solving, preparation, anxiety, and the very human need to reduce uncertainty. Then we connect it directly with business owners, founders, and leaders considering exit planning, including ESOP conversations. Our takeaway is that the algorithm is a dashboard, not a destiny, and attention becomes intention, intention becomes habit, and habit becomes character.

July 3, 2026Episode 2725 min

EP27 - Foundations of Transition: Financial Fluency and Clarity

In this episode, Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth continue the Foundations of Transition series by exploring the importance of financial fluency and clarity. This workshop-style conversation aims to help business owners better understand the numbers behind their operations and why financial confidence is essential for making informed decisions throughout the ESOP journey. This episode encourages owners to move beyond simply reviewing financial reports. It focuses on interpreting what these numbers truly convey. Jason and Makenzie discuss how clear reporting, visibility into key performance drivers, and a deeper understanding of financial metrics can reduce uncertainty, strengthen decision-making, and prepare business owners for a smoother, more successful ownership transition.

June 26, 2026Episode 2614 min

EP26 - Don't Be Dangerous to the Wrong Thing: A 14-Minute Field Guide for Professionals on What to Say Next

In this episode, Jason Miller explores how advisors can recognize when an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) deserves a place in a client’s transition planning conversation. Rather than positioning ESOPs as a one-size-fits-all solution for business owners, this 14-minute field guide offers practical advice for professionals aiming to engage in meaningful discussions with clients whose objectives may align with employee ownership. From addressing common assumptions around complexity, costs, strategic buyers, seller financing, management depth, company size, and control, this episode empowers advisors with the tools to ask the right questions and identify when an ESOP deserves a closer look. Don’t miss the opportunity to enhance your advisory practice and offer your clients informed and effective solutions!

June 19, 2026Episode 2541 min

EP25 - Employee Benefit Plan Audits: What ESOP Companies Need to Know

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth sits down with David Thrush, Principal in Doeren Mayhew’s Audit Department and National ESOP Practice Leader, to break down why employee benefit plan (EBP) audits are essential for ESOP companies. With extensive experience in ERISA compliance, employee benefit plan audits, and ESOP administration, David explains how EBP audits support accurate Form 5500 reporting and what companies should be doing now to prepare for upcoming deadlines. From building an annual ESOP calendar to coordinating with service providers, reviewing census data, participant statements, valuations, and distributions, this conversation highlights the year‑round planning and compliance practices every ESOP company must embrace to stay compliant and avoid surprises. If you’re looking to strengthen your ESOP processes, improve audit readiness, and stay ahead of regulatory requirements, this episode is a must‑listen.

June 12, 2026Episode 2437 min

EP24 - 10 Questions Every Business Owner Should Ask Before Planning an Exit

Most business owners can name the exit they think they want, but far fewer can clearly explain the problem they are trying to solve. Jason Miller and Makenzie Wirth dig into the 10 powerful questions every owner should ask themselves before choosing an ESOP, a management buyout, or a third-party sale, because transition problems usually start with incomplete questions, not bad intentions. From uncovering hidden risks and leadership gaps to evaluating succession readiness, personal goals, and the true value of the business beyond the owner, these questions reveal what’s really happening beneath the surface. This conversation will help you gain clarity, preserve your options, and build a stronger foundation for a successful transition. If you want a clearer path through exit planning, business succession, and ESOP readiness, hit play and bring these questions to your next advisor meeting.