It's a Numbers Game

Hosted by Daniel Welling

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135

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Jun 2026

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The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

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June 14, 2026Episode 13526 min

EP135 – How MSPs Can Get Paid Faster with Tom Pope

Tom discusses Adfin as a "new, better GoCardless," arguing it offers stronger support, more competitive pricing, and a broader product: direct debits, cards (including Apple Pay/Google Pay), open banking, and bank transfers in one platform with integrated chasing and reconciliation via Xero. He says the market has lacked innovation for 15–20 years and positions Adfin's goal as getting businesses paid faster at lower cost through automation and AI-driven personalization (e.g., mandates and chasing from a user's own email domain). Adfin is UK-focused, accepts international card payments, and plans euro and USD bank transfers within six months. A key differentiator is an automated direct debit migration process that moves mandates from other providers in about five weeks without customer action beyond notification. The episode also covers VRP skepticism, configurable payment limits/rules, virtual accounts for automated bank transfer reconciliation, and optional surcharging for expensive business cards. 00:00 Are We The New GoCardless 00:42 Why Adfin Wins 02:03 Why Challenge The Incumbent 03:56 Startup Speed Vs Scale 05:16 Payments Platform Explained 05:58 International Payments Roadmap 07:07 Switching Without Risk 09:26 VRP And Open Banking Reality 13:14 MSP Workflow Examples In Xero 15:43 Chasing Emails And Payment Limits 17:47 High Value Bank Transfers 18:52 Apple Pay Fees And Surcharging 22:33 Wrap Up And How To Reach Adfin Connect with Tom Pope on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-pope-979a4940/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 31, 2026Episode 13432 min

EP134 – The MSP M&A Landscape in 2026 with Paul Vanstone

Paul joins the podcast to discuss MSP M&A trends and what 2026 may look like after years of consolidation driven by PE-backed platforms, self-funded acquirers, listed buyers, and newer permanent capital vehicles. He explains why the market has been attractive (fragmentation, cloud migration, cyber demand, COVID-driven working changes, inflation-led price increases) but notes the bar is rising for sellers amid economic headwinds, lower price rises, and AI-driven efficiency that may pressure support rates while also creating advisory opportunities and margin protection. Paul breaks down five buyer types, including Evergreen-style permanent capital that buys without heavy integration and offers supplier and group benefits. He advises sellers to plan early, clarify personal and business goals, avoid approaching everyone, optimise operations, and choose experienced M&A advisors and lawyers, with up-to-date financial and tax records. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:33 2026 MSP M&A Outlook 02:18 Market Drivers and Headwinds 06:01 Who the Buyers Are 09:26 Choosing the Right Exit Partner 12:42 Why Exit Planning Matters 14:49 Optimising for a Future Sale 18:14 Money Goals and Life Purpose 23:14 Building the Right Team 23:53 Picking Advisors and Process Timeline 28:57 Wrap Up and Contact Details Connect with Paul Vanstone on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cls946167290/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 25, 2026Episode 13332 min

EP133 – The Compliance Revenue You're Missing with Dom Haughton and Alastair Goodwin

Adam Morris and Daniel Welling discuss how MSPs can offer compliance as a service to differentiate and create recurring, high-margin revenue, joined by Dom Haughton (Brigantia Partners) and Alastair Goodwin (Adoptech). They explain that MSPs are increasingly asked by customers for certifications such as Cyber Essentials, ISO 27001, ISO 9001 and ISO 42001, but often avoid selling them due to perceived documentation burden and lack of in-house compliance expertise. Adoptech's guided, automated platform and "done-for-you" delivery model aim to shorten ISO 27001 delivery to 8–12 weeks and reduce costs versus traditional consultants, while enabling MSPs to wrap professional services around technical remediation identified through gap analysis. Partners report adding roughly 25–30% margin, with growing demand in regulated sectors and supply chains (e.g., legal, finance, automotive). 00:00 Compliance as a Service Intro 01:32 Why MSPs Should Care 02:36 How MSPs Get Started 04:01 Market Awareness Today 05:37 Productising Compliance 07:09 Automation Removes Friction 08:20 Pricing Mindset Interlude 09:25 Delivery Models and Partnering 13:33 Margins and Upsell Opportunities 18:04 Selling Value and Positioning 23:22 Target Sectors and Demand 28:16 Is It Worth It at Small Scale 31:08 Wrap Up and Contact Details Connect with Dom Houghton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/domhaughton/ Connect with Alastair Goodwin on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/alastair-goodwin-b165894/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 16, 2026Episode 13232 min

EP132 – Rehearse the Chaos — Why every MSP should be running tabletop exercises with their clients — with Adam Pilton, Heimdal Security

Daniel Welling welcomes back cybersecurity advisor Adam Pilton (Heimdal Security) for a masterclass on cyber tabletop exercises. Adam defines a tabletop as a staged rehearsal where senior leaders and key responders use the organisation's incident response procedure while a facilitator introduces evolving information, aiming to build confidence, stress-test decision-making, and improve communication. They discuss common failures like missing or outdated incident response plans, the facilitator's role in preparing and tailoring scenarios, and differences between SMEs (often using pre-made exercises) and enterprises (more tailored). MSPs should participate, with the on-the-day MSP representative not knowing what comes next, and facilitation can be segmented to reduce bias. Success means surfacing lessons learned, and Adam recommends at least annual exercises, ideally quarterly, including smaller segments within QBRs. He outlines six pillars of effective incident response and highlights the MGM incident as a communication case study. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 01:20 Tabletop Exercises Defined 03:13 Game vs Serious Stress 04:20 Incident Plan Pitfalls 06:29 Facilitator Prep and Tailoring 10:51 SME vs Enterprise Approach 12:26 MSP Role and Independence 15:10 What Success Looks Like 17:01 Where and How Often 19:40 Packaging as Recurring Service 22:21 Six Pillars Framework 24:48 Communication Case Study MGM 28:27 Selling Security Upgrades 30:32 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Adam Pilton on LinkedIn by clicking here –https://www.linkedin.com/in/adampilton Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 4, 2026Episode 13132 min

EP131 – The Devil's in the Detail – Why your billing team, your margins and your processes need to be ready before you scale – with David Middleton, Flotek

Dave discusses how Flotek scaled its finance and billing operations from a simple setup (a bookkeeper and a director overseeing finances) to a more structured team while growing rapidly through acquisitions. He explains their philosophy that client-facing billing is part of service delivery, with SLAs and a "wow" mindset to protect relationships and reduce friction from invoice errors. The conversation covers challenges of cost-of-sale reconciliation amid inconsistent vendor billing, the need to accept imperfect acquisition data, and using standard cost models and monthly margin monitoring (with more precision where margins are tighter, like Microsoft). They emphasise simplifying vendors/products, building processes and controls across sales, projects, and finance, capturing historical billing data, and balancing automation with necessary manual review. Dave notes they reached £18M revenue in 3.5 years and wishes he had hired earlier, stressing upfront investment in scalable systems, culture, and pricing for long-term growth. 00:00 MSP Finance at Scale 00:50 Early Acquisition Setup 01:47 Billing as Customer Service 05:24 Wow Factor and Trust 08:17 Cost Reconciliation Reality 10:14 Standard Costs and Margins 14:45 Automation and AI Tools 17:39 Limiting Complexity 19:53 Team Size and Reporting Depth 23:24 Sales Ops to Finance Handoff 27:46 Lessons from Rapid Growth 29:32 Closing and Contact Connect with Dave Middleton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-j-middleton/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

April 5, 2026Episode 13031 min

EP130 – 14 MSP Acquisitions in 4 Years – What Buyers Really Look For with Dave Middleton

Dave joins the podcast to discuss Flotek's M&A journey, having completed 14 acquisitions in three and a half years, and argues the MSP market is diverse, fragmented, and active, with frequent inbound opportunities. He explains deal sourcing through SEO, brokers, network reputation, and supplier referrals, and stresses sellers should do due diligence on buyers. Flotek prioritises cultural and values alignment before numbers, then evaluates stability, cash flow, customer loyalty, customer satisfaction, geography, organic growth, and vendor/tech-stack fit, with a relentless focus on thorough integration. Post-sale, they reassure staff through one-to-ones, emphasise career growth in a larger business, and use phased service integration (often months 6–12) plus strong account management to reduce churn, while acknowledging some customers prefer small-MSP intimacy. On valuation, Dave says it depends on timing and competition, advises not fixating on price versus deal structure and certainty, and notes recurring revenue and longer contracts generally improve value. 00:00 Welcome and Goals 00:51 Biggest M&A Takeaways 01:57 Deal Flow and Market Supply 03:29 Sourcing Acquisition Leads 05:35 Buyer Due Diligence 06:48 Culture Fit First 07:53 What Buyers Look For 09:46 Integration and Tech Stack 13:51 Pipeline Timing and Dating 16:32 Post Sale Integration Playbook 20:16 Customer Retention and Churn 24:41 Valuation Versus Deal Structure 28:00 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Dave Middleton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-j-middleton/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

March 28, 2026Episode 12935 min

EP129 – Why Most MSPs get PR wrong with Rahme Mehmet

In this episode, the hosts Adam and Daniel are joined by PR consultant Rahme to discuss an upcoming 2026 collaboration and unpack what PR means for MSPs and vendors: public relations as audience-focused communication that builds reputation, brand awareness, and relationships with influencers such as reporters, editors, analysts, and advisors. They contrast PR with marketing, using a white paper as an example of content that marketing deploys for lead generation while PR uses it to pitch thought leadership and earn coverage, and they explore how PR success is measured through exposure, publication quality, message pull-through, and effects like SEO rather than direct sales attribution. They stress getting fundamentals right (clear positioning, aligned website and social messaging), planning quarterly communications tied to business goals, developing media relationships, and preparing for crisis communications. They also address AI as both an accelerator and a reputational risk in content creation. 00:00 Welcome and Partnership 00:52 What PR Really Means 04:32 PR vs Marketing Lines 08:03 Measuring PR Impact 13:41 Who Should Use PR 17:43 Earned vs Paid Coverage 21:04 Getting Started with PR 24:31 Relationships and Crisis Prep 26:49 AI in the PR World 32:08 Contact and Wrap Up Connect with Rahme Mehmet on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahmemehmet/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

March 22, 2026Episode 12835 min

EP128 – Using the Working Genius Model to Build Better MSP Teams – with Chris Cooke

Chris joins Daniel and Adam to discuss Patrick Lencioni's Working Genius assessment, a 40-question framework about where people get energy and joy at work, contrasting it with tools like Myers-Briggs and DISC (communication preference). He explains the WIDGET model: Wonder (identify gaps), Invention (generate ideas), Discernment (judge ideas), Galvanizing (rally action), Enablement (help others move work forward), and Tenacity (drive to completion), plus how each person has two geniuses, two competencies, and two frustrations. They cover applying the model in MSPs to improve role fit, career progression (e.g., L1 vs escalations, sales vs sales management), meeting focus (strategy vs tactics), recruitment language, and reducing burnout through intentional time spent in frustration areas. 00:00 Introductions and Banter 00:23 Why Working Genius 02:08 WIDGET Overview 02:32 Wonder and Invention 03:18 Discernment and Galvanizing 04:13 Enablement and Tenacity 05:45 Genius Competency Frustration 07:50 Applying it to Meetings 09:17 Business Gaps and Stages 10:25 Every Job Uses All Six 12:04 Role Fit Sales Example 14:37 Technicians Need Clarity 15:07 Clarity Versus Escalations 15:50 Valuing Level One Talent 17:06 Career Paths and Intentionality 18:17 Time Blocking for Strengths 19:46 Hiring Amid Talent Shortage 22:00 Do Your Results Change 25:21 Engineering into Sales 28:40 Right Seats and QBRs 30:23 DISC Versus Working Genius 32:27 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Chris Cook on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cookechris Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

March 12, 2026Episode 12728 min

EP127 – Loneliness is the tax you pay for autonomy

Loneliness Is the Tax You Pay for Autonomy: The Hidden Cost of Business Ownership Adam and Daniel depart from the usual guest format to discuss the often-ignored loneliness of business ownership, especially in MSPs. They frame autonomy as rewarding but inherently tied to responsibility, asymmetrical relationships, and an unshared cognitive load that leaders can't fully offload to employees or spouses. Adam reads an essay, "Loneliness is the Tax You Pay for Autonomy," arguing loneliness is a byproduct of authority and care, not weakness, and can be offset through structures like EOS, shared vision, peer groups, mentors, therapists, and healthier communication rhythms. They reflect on regrets about not understanding these dynamics earlier, the mixed value and potential competitiveness of peer groups, and the nuanced pros and cons of having a business partner. They close by emphasising authenticity, balancing the "tax" with rewards, and appreciating the journey. 00:00 Why This Episode 00:40 Loneliness at the Top 02:41 Autonomy Loneliness Essay 07:14 Regrets and Recognition 09:23 Naming the Hidden Cost 10:35 EOS and Shared Vision 12:43 Peer Groups and Pitfalls 14:59 Business Partners Debate 19:02 Mentors and Support Systems 23:29 Vulnerability and Balance 25:29 Enjoy the Journey 27:24 Closing and Connect Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

March 7, 2026Episode 12633 min

EP126 – Becoming the Chief AI Officer for Your Clients with Nils Howland

In this episode, we welcome Nils, co-founder of Ironbridge, to discuss the transformative potential of AI for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Nils shares his extensive background and experience in scaling businesses and investing in tech startups. He elaborates on how MSPs can leverage AI to revolutionise their operating models, scale efficiently, and deliver new, high-value services. The conversation covers the transition from traditional IT infrastructure to AI-driven solutions, the importance of strategic partnerships with clients, and actionable steps MSPs can take to stay ahead. Nils also highlights the unique role MSPs will play in the AI era, becoming indispensable partners for SMBs and SMEs by integrating AI into their operations and offering consultative, outcome-based solutions. 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:58 Nils' Background and Experience 02:37 The Role of AI in MSP Development 03:59 Changing the Commercial Model for MSPs 06:07 The Unique Opportunity for MSPs with AI 08:30 Implementing AI in MSP Operations 12:42 Challenges and Strategies for MSPs Adopting AI 14:13 The Future of MSPs in the AI Era 16:33 Practical Examples and ROI of AI Implementation 29:35 Final Thoughts and Contact Information Connect with Nils Howland on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/nilshowland/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here –https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!