Find partners
Biz & Tech Podcasts — Collaboration Platform
Menu
Submit Podcast
It's a Numbers Game

It's a Numbers Game

Hosted by Daniel Welling

BusinessManagementInterviews guests
WebsiteRSS feed

Episodes

140

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

EN

About the show

The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.

Listen to episodes

60 recent
August 16, 2026Episode 14021 min

EP140 - Why MSP Security Needs to Be Simpler with Shaun Farrow of Arctic Wolf

Dan speaks with Sean Farrow of Arctic Wolf about the fast-changing MSP cybersecurity landscape and Sean's move from a 15-year MSP career, most recently as security practice lead, to the vendor side. Sean explains how gaps in an MSP's Microsoft-based SOC portfolio led him to Arctic Wolf for vendor-agnostic coverage, and discusses the pressure of keeping pace with shifting best-of-breed tools and integrations. They explore MSP commercial realities such as packaging, pricing, margin predictability, and the need to reduce operational friction by delivering outcome-driven, true-positive tickets. Sean outlines Arctic Wolf's vendor-neutral approach and security concierge service, and previews a streamlined MSP-only offering expected around September that aims to simplify scoping, improve price competitiveness, reduce requirements like a mandated network sensor, and introduce more on-demand digital concierge capabilities, while still pulling data across the attack surface. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 02:03 Sean MSP Background 03:41 Keeping Up With Security 05:07 Why Move Vendor Side 06:19 Pricing Sponsor Break 08:33 Life at Arctic Wolf MSP 11:22 Arctic Wolf MSP Model 12:55 Streamlined Offering Changes 16:10 Posture Improvement Examples 19:52 Launch Plans and Wrap Connect with Shaun Farrow on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunfarrow/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

August 9, 2026Episode 13927 min

EP139 – The MSP Joiner-Leaver Problem Nobody Talks About with Cristian Bogdan from CooperBox

Cristian discusses how his MSP experience provisioning thousands of pandemic-era laptops exposed frequent mis-provisioned user accounts, often caused by clients submitting incomplete joiner requests (missing departments, licenses, and permissions). He highlights the larger risk on off-boarding, citing studies in the UK and USA where 50% of businesses reported former employees not being fully off-boarded, leaving residual access and ongoing licensing costs. Cristian describes a self-serve joiner/leaver platform designed to replace fragile ticket-based workflows with guided forms, integrations with HR platforms via APIs, a governance engine that validates requests against policies, an approval queue for final review, and tracking of what was provisioned to ensure consistent deprovisioning, including manual notes for non-SSO legacy apps. He explains MSP commercialisation options (embedded, add-on, hybrid), benefits for compliance evidence (e.g., ISO 2701), applicability to internal IT/co-managed environments, and notes the product was largely built using OpenAI Codex. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:24 MSP Origin Story 01:26 Joiner Provisioning Pain 02:36 Leavers and Residual Access 04:45 Automation and HR Integrations 08:03 Self-Serve Governance Workflow 09:41 Compliance Value and ROI 10:54 Pricing and Target Users 16:34 Governance Engine vs Scripts 18:18 AI Future and Readiness 20:19 Building with Codex 22:08 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Cristian Bogdan on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/c-bogdan/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

July 28, 2026Episode 13832 min

EP138 – Can MSPs Really Buy and Sell Individual Clients with Matt Yesbeck from MSPX

Matt discusses MSPX, a marketplace for MSPs to buy and sell individual managed services contracts as an alternative to acquiring entire businesses. The platform helps MSPs divest non-profitable or non-strategic clients and enables buyers to shorten sales cycles by targeting specific verticals or geographies, with typical pricing around 6–8x MRR (sometimes higher with negotiation and longer remaining terms). MSPX uses escrow, a structured 30-day transition dashboard, a legally drafted customer notification email with a novation agreement requiring the buyer to honour the existing MSA, and protections if a customer declines the transfer. Sellers complete a detailed intake form; buyers can ask questions via in-platform chat. Pricing includes $149/year membership, 7% seller commission, 1–2% escrow fee for buyers, and an optional $599/year "first look" tier. The main challenge is limited awareness due to bootstrapped marketing. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:36 MSPX Marketplace Explained 02:06 Why Sell Contracts 03:39 Pricing Multiples and Examples 06:22 Valuation and Risk Controls 09:19 End Client Consent and Escrow 13:48 Communication and Transition Playbook 18:34 Contract Intake and Buyer Due Diligence 20:32 Growth Challenges and Pricing Plans 25:00 Global Expansion Use Cases 28:26 Wrap Up and How to Join Connect with Matt Yesbeck on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattyesbeck/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

July 19, 2026Episode 13735 min

EP137 - Why MSP Sales Decisions Aren't as Rational as You Think with Marino Vigliotti

Marino joins the podcast to discuss decision-making psychology for MSPs, emphasising that B2B buying differs from B2C because decisions require justification to others and are shaped by different goals. He describes common friction caused by misalignment between what MSPs pitch as "gains" and what business owners perceive as "losses," highlighting loss aversion, status quo bias, and sunk cost effects (including attachment to existing tools and the implied threat of admitting past mistakes). Using a probability-and-reward example, he explains biases in cognitive decision-making and how statistics can be misread without context. The conversation covers how asking too many questions increases cognitive load, why multi-quote requests often signal weak differentiation of the MSP (not just price), and why prescriptive sales scripts can feel inauthentic; trust, fit, and practice through more conversations are stressed. Marino recommends Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" and Phil Agnew's "Nudge" 00:00 Welcome and Topic Setup 01:13 B2B vs B2C Decisions 02:26 Client Utility and Friction 06:11 Cognitive Biases Explained 10:39 Loss Aversion and Framing 14:26 Status Quo and Sunk Costs 17:47 Winning Quotes and Differentiation 20:31 Qualification and Buyer Psychology 23:38 Cognitive Load in Sales 25:44 Authenticity and Bounded Rationality 29:21 Resources and Closing Connect with Marino Vigliotti on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinovigliotti/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

June 28, 2026Episode 13638 min

EP136 – How I F'd Up Three Acquisitions: Lessons From Apple MSP M&A with Justin Esgar

Justin returns to the podcast and discusses the challenges and lessons from acquiring three Apple-focused businesses since 2020 amid consolidation in the Apple consultant community and difficulty targeting Mac-using clients. He describes buying a small Iowa Apple consultancy with the seller kept on for business development, only to learn ownership doesn't equal sales skill and that ex-owners often clash as employees; the owner left after disputes, but clients were retained and served remotely. He then explains acquiring a Colorado Apple training company to build a B2C training channel, but it failed due to lack of focus, content upkeep, staff turnover, and the effort required to produce non-evergreen training. A larger Missouri consultancy/Apple authorised service provider acquisition brought clients and a strong team but also personality conflict and a payment-structure mistake that strained cash flow. Despite stress and missed pay-checks, Justin says the acquisitions ultimately improved finances, team quality, and growth, stressing the need for stronger financial position and deal-specific negotiation. 00:00 Welcome Back 01:15 M&A Episode Setup 02:06 Why Apple MSPs Consolidate 07:43 Three Acquisitions Overview 10:03 Deal One Iowa Lessons 12:02 Owner Clashes After Buyout 16:21 Deal Three Missouri Personality 18:25 Deal Two Training Misfire 27:37 Deal Structures Cash Flow Traps 32:50 Big Takeaways And Closing Connect with Justin Esgar on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinesgar/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team

June 14, 2026Episode 13526 min

EP135 – How MSPs Can Get Paid Faster with Tom Pope

Tom discusses Adfin as a "new, better GoCardless," arguing it offers stronger support, more competitive pricing, and a broader product: direct debits, cards (including Apple Pay/Google Pay), open banking, and bank transfers in one platform with integrated chasing and reconciliation via Xero. He says the market has lacked innovation for 15–20 years and positions Adfin's goal as getting businesses paid faster at lower cost through automation and AI-driven personalization (e.g., mandates and chasing from a user's own email domain). Adfin is UK-focused, accepts international card payments, and plans euro and USD bank transfers within six months. A key differentiator is an automated direct debit migration process that moves mandates from other providers in about five weeks without customer action beyond notification. The episode also covers VRP skepticism, configurable payment limits/rules, virtual accounts for automated bank transfer reconciliation, and optional surcharging for expensive business cards. 00:00 Are We The New GoCardless 00:42 Why Adfin Wins 02:03 Why Challenge The Incumbent 03:56 Startup Speed Vs Scale 05:16 Payments Platform Explained 05:58 International Payments Roadmap 07:07 Switching Without Risk 09:26 VRP And Open Banking Reality 13:14 MSP Workflow Examples In Xero 15:43 Chasing Emails And Payment Limits 17:47 High Value Bank Transfers 18:52 Apple Pay Fees And Surcharging 22:33 Wrap Up And How To Reach Adfin Connect with Tom Pope on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-pope-979a4940/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 31, 2026Episode 13432 min

EP134 – The MSP M&A Landscape in 2026 with Paul Vanstone

Paul joins the podcast to discuss MSP M&A trends and what 2026 may look like after years of consolidation driven by PE-backed platforms, self-funded acquirers, listed buyers, and newer permanent capital vehicles. He explains why the market has been attractive (fragmentation, cloud migration, cyber demand, COVID-driven working changes, inflation-led price increases) but notes the bar is rising for sellers amid economic headwinds, lower price rises, and AI-driven efficiency that may pressure support rates while also creating advisory opportunities and margin protection. Paul breaks down five buyer types, including Evergreen-style permanent capital that buys without heavy integration and offers supplier and group benefits. He advises sellers to plan early, clarify personal and business goals, avoid approaching everyone, optimise operations, and choose experienced M&A advisors and lawyers, with up-to-date financial and tax records. 00:00 Welcome and Setup 00:33 2026 MSP M&A Outlook 02:18 Market Drivers and Headwinds 06:01 Who the Buyers Are 09:26 Choosing the Right Exit Partner 12:42 Why Exit Planning Matters 14:49 Optimising for a Future Sale 18:14 Money Goals and Life Purpose 23:14 Building the Right Team 23:53 Picking Advisors and Process Timeline 28:57 Wrap Up and Contact Details Connect with Paul Vanstone on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cls946167290/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 25, 2026Episode 13332 min

EP133 – The Compliance Revenue You're Missing with Dom Haughton and Alastair Goodwin

Adam Morris and Daniel Welling discuss how MSPs can offer compliance as a service to differentiate and create recurring, high-margin revenue, joined by Dom Haughton (Brigantia Partners) and Alastair Goodwin (Adoptech). They explain that MSPs are increasingly asked by customers for certifications such as Cyber Essentials, ISO 27001, ISO 9001 and ISO 42001, but often avoid selling them due to perceived documentation burden and lack of in-house compliance expertise. Adoptech's guided, automated platform and "done-for-you" delivery model aim to shorten ISO 27001 delivery to 8–12 weeks and reduce costs versus traditional consultants, while enabling MSPs to wrap professional services around technical remediation identified through gap analysis. Partners report adding roughly 25–30% margin, with growing demand in regulated sectors and supply chains (e.g., legal, finance, automotive). 00:00 Compliance as a Service Intro 01:32 Why MSPs Should Care 02:36 How MSPs Get Started 04:01 Market Awareness Today 05:37 Productising Compliance 07:09 Automation Removes Friction 08:20 Pricing Mindset Interlude 09:25 Delivery Models and Partnering 13:33 Margins and Upsell Opportunities 18:04 Selling Value and Positioning 23:22 Target Sectors and Demand 28:16 Is It Worth It at Small Scale 31:08 Wrap Up and Contact Details Connect with Dom Houghton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/domhaughton/ Connect with Alastair Goodwin on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/alastair-goodwin-b165894/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 16, 2026Episode 13232 min

EP132 – Rehearse the Chaos — Why every MSP should be running tabletop exercises with their clients — with Adam Pilton, Heimdal Security

Daniel Welling welcomes back cybersecurity advisor Adam Pilton (Heimdal Security) for a masterclass on cyber tabletop exercises. Adam defines a tabletop as a staged rehearsal where senior leaders and key responders use the organisation's incident response procedure while a facilitator introduces evolving information, aiming to build confidence, stress-test decision-making, and improve communication. They discuss common failures like missing or outdated incident response plans, the facilitator's role in preparing and tailoring scenarios, and differences between SMEs (often using pre-made exercises) and enterprises (more tailored). MSPs should participate, with the on-the-day MSP representative not knowing what comes next, and facilitation can be segmented to reduce bias. Success means surfacing lessons learned, and Adam recommends at least annual exercises, ideally quarterly, including smaller segments within QBRs. He outlines six pillars of effective incident response and highlights the MGM incident as a communication case study. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 01:20 Tabletop Exercises Defined 03:13 Game vs Serious Stress 04:20 Incident Plan Pitfalls 06:29 Facilitator Prep and Tailoring 10:51 SME vs Enterprise Approach 12:26 MSP Role and Independence 15:10 What Success Looks Like 17:01 Where and How Often 19:40 Packaging as Recurring Service 22:21 Six Pillars Framework 24:48 Communication Case Study MGM 28:27 Selling Security Upgrades 30:32 Wrap Up and Contact Connect with Adam Pilton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adampilton Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

May 4, 2026Episode 13132 min

EP131 – The Devil's in the Detail – Why your billing team, your margins and your processes need to be ready before you scale – with David Middleton, Flotek

Dave discusses how Flotek scaled its finance and billing operations from a simple setup (a bookkeeper and a director overseeing finances) to a more structured team while growing rapidly through acquisitions. He explains their philosophy that client-facing billing is part of service delivery, with SLAs and a "wow" mindset to protect relationships and reduce friction from invoice errors. The conversation covers challenges of cost-of-sale reconciliation amid inconsistent vendor billing, the need to accept imperfect acquisition data, and using standard cost models and monthly margin monitoring (with more precision where margins are tighter, like Microsoft). They emphasise simplifying vendors/products, building processes and controls across sales, projects, and finance, capturing historical billing data, and balancing automation with necessary manual review. Dave notes they reached £18M revenue in 3.5 years and wishes he had hired earlier, stressing upfront investment in scalable systems, culture, and pricing for long-term growth. 00:00 MSP Finance at Scale 00:50 Early Acquisition Setup 01:47 Billing as Customer Service 05:24 Wow Factor and Trust 08:17 Cost Reconciliation Reality 10:14 Standard Costs and Margins 14:45 Automation and AI Tools 17:39 Limiting Complexity 19:53 Team Size and Reporting Depth 23:24 Sales Ops to Finance Handoff 27:46 Lessons from Rapid Growth 29:32 Closing and Contact Connect with Dave Middleton on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-j-middleton/ Connect with Daniel Welling on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielwelling/ Connect with Adam Morris on LinkedIn by clicking here – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamcmorris/ Visit The MSP Finance Team website, simply click here – https://www.mspfinanceteam.com/ MSP Glossary: MSP Finance Glossary Explained | MSP Finance Team We look forward to catching up with you on the next one. Stay tuned!

Is this your show?

Claim this listing to keep it up to date, reach guests who want to pitch you, and manage bookings with Guestify.

Claim this listing

More Business podcasts

Wealth, Yoga , Wine

Wealth, Yoga , Wine

Valerie Hail

BusinessEntrepreneurshipInterviews guests
The Dan Abrams Podcast

The Dan Abrams Podcast

Mediaite

BusinessInterviews guests
The Michael Harrison Interview

The Michael Harrison Interview

PodcastOne

BusinessInterviews guests
The Modern Stock & Options Trading Show

The Modern Stock & Options Trading Show

Russ Mathews

Business

Business Creators Radio Show with Adam Hommey

Business

Business Creators Radio Show With Adam Hommey

Business