Higgle: The B2B Sales Club

Hosted by Mike Lander

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138

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Jun 2026

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About the show

This is Higgle: The B2B Sales Club Podcast, where we bring you actionable insights about sales RFPs, Sales Negotiations and difficult Procurement discussions. It's all about helping you win more deals, and hitting your sales quota. We talk to sales leaders, brand leaders and procurement leaders about lessons learnt on their journey to win more sales deals and get better negotiated outcomes. The podcast is hosted by Mike Lander, an ex procurement director and entrepreneur, talking to guests about their experiences - the good, the bad and the ugly. Please subscribe to get updates when new episodes are released.

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June 15, 202633 min

The Hidden Advantage of Tactfully Handling Difficult People with Alex Sobol, Part 1

What if the real secret to sales success is in how you handle difficult people? In this episode, I sit down with Alex Sobol, Co-Founder of The Millennium Alliance, to look closely at the real traits that drive success in sales. Alex shares how he went from selling sponsorships straight out of college to building a global C-suite community that's now on track for $100 million in revenue. He believes that sales success has less to do with flashy tactics and more to do with work ethic, resilience, and the ability to handle difficult people without losing momentum. He explains why culture, accountability, and character start in the interview process, plus why he personally speaks to every potential hire. Alex later opens up about navigating uncertainty during COVID, the mindset behind scaling from 4 employees to 250, and the importance of staying relentlessly focused on the goal in front of you. We explore why founder-led selling doesn't automatically mean product-market fit, how to stress-test yourself for a career in sales, and what it really means to reverse-engineer success. Topics covered during this episode include: Why C-suite access is harder to earn than most sellers realize. How the high-impact model of The Millennium Alliance creates valuable conversations. Why private meetings change the way sponsors measure event success. Why sponsorship sales taught lessons to Alex that later shaped his business. How Alex and his other Co-Founder recognized an opportunity others seem to miss. How culture becomes more than a slogan during rapid growth. Why founder-led selling does not always prove a business can scale. How interview questions reveal traits a resume can easily hide. How difficult people can become a lesson instead of an obstacle. Why self-awareness may be the missing ingredient in many sales careers. How other, ordinary jobs can reveal whether someone is built for sales. How trained leaders become the real turning point in company growth. Why the first million is so dependent on blocking out noise and staying focused. Listen now to rethink how you handle pressure, rejection, and difficult people! Alex Sobol on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsobol

June 8, 202637 min

The AI-Driven Rise of Performance-Based Partnerships with Micki Meyer

What happens when clients demand fewer people, lower fees, and measurable growth at the same time? In this episode, we're joined by Micki Meyer (Executive Director, Global Client Engagement - Health with Interpublic Group) to unpack the shifting economics of the agency world, including why traditional models are under serious pressure. We walk through the classic retainer, time-and-materials, and fixed-fee structures, leading us to discuss why AI is exposing their weaknesses faster than many expected. Micki shares what she's seeing inside large agency networks, challenging long-held assumptions about value, risk, and partnership. We dig into what AI actually unlocks beyond speed and savings, and why craft and distinct thinking matter more than ever. Micki explores what agencies must do to avoid becoming commoditized, and how compensation models may evolve into subscription floors with strategic premiums layered on top. We also discuss the collapse of bloated team structures, the future of junior talent, and how agencies must rethink hiring for curiosity and adaptability. Topics covered during this episode include: Why clients increasingly reject retainers without clear alignment on outcome. The structural weaknesses of time-and-materials pricing under AI acceleration. How fixed-fee deliverables create tension around procurement-driven cost pressure. The growing demand for performance-based compensation and shared risk structures. Why aligning on measurable success metrics is often harder than expected. How AI enables faster concept visualization for non-marketing stakeholders. The implications of AI commoditizing execution and production work. Why agencies must separate client-facing strategy from AI-powered production systems. The shift toward smaller, multifunctional pods instead of large account teams. What clients really mean when they ask for fewer people plus AI. Why safety, governance, and regulatory understanding are critical evaluation criteria. How subscription-based infrastructure models may replace hourly billing foundations. Why senior strategic thinking will command a rising premium. The impact of AI on junior talent pipelines and rotational learning models. How agencies must recruit for curiosity, adaptability, and AI fluency. If you want to understand where agency economics are heading next, this is an episode you can't afford to miss! Micki Meyer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-micki-meyer/

June 1, 202632 min

Why Human Judgement Is the New Premium with Claire Lambell

As production gets cheaper and faster, where does real agency value survive? In this episode, I sit down with Claire Lambell, Managing Director at Southpaw, to unpack what's really happening inside creative agencies as AI reshapes the industry. We dig into the pressure coming from automation, platform tools, and procurement, and ask the burning question: where does the strategic moat actually live now? Claire shares why the future isn't about making more creative faster, but about making the right creative, with stronger judgment, sharper storytelling, and deeper brand partnership. We explore why sameness is becoming a real threat and how agencies must rethink their positioning before the market forces it upon them. As our conversation unfolds, we debate whether production is becoming fully commoditized and what that means for pricing, talent, and business models. Claire talks about the tension between testing everything and trusting your gut, along with why craft, taste, and long-term narrative thinking may become even more valuable. We also check out the future of junior talent, the risk of over-relying on AI dashboards, and how agencies can move upstream into growth advisory roles. Topics covered during this episode include: The current fragile but buoyant agency market landscape. How AI advancements are increasing pressure on traditional agency models. The shift from just making more creative to making the right creative. How agencies must own client problem spaces strategically. The risk of descending into an "age of average" driven by identical AI insights. Why human craft and creative judgment remain critical differentiators. The importance of curating insights instead of executing all data. The three-layer model of cockpit, orchestration, and engine. How production commoditization threatens traditional profit centers. Why long-term narrative architecture outperforms disposable campaigns. The growing value of brand expression and consistent tone. How testing everything can undermine instinct and bold creativity. The importance of trusted client partnerships over supplier relationships. What AI can automate versus where humans must stay accountable. The ethical and cultural judgment gaps in current AI systems. Why agencies must evolve from execution partners to growth advisors. Don't miss this deep dive into where real creative value survives in the age of AI! Claire Lambell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-lambell-a934382a/

May 25, 202626 min

The Blank Space Opportunity in AI Transformation with Rebecca Aliab Deng

What happens when you stop automating tasks and start reimagining the entire workflow? In this episode, we're alongside Rebecca Aliab Deng, Vice President of Business Operations at Cognitiv, to unpack what AI transformation actually looks like inside deep learning advertising platforms. We go beyond the hype and examine the real challenges: overwhelming volumes of AI tools, mismatched expectations, and the surprising realization that simply automating workflows isn't enough. Rebecca shares how her teams move from replicating old processes to reimagining outcomes entirely, and why operational readiness matters just as much as the technology itself. Rebecca explains that the pace of change, especially in procurement cycles, is forcing a fundamental rethink of how businesses evaluate and implement AI. We explore what this means for the future of agencies, storytelling, and cultural relevance in an AI-driven world. Rebecca offers a sharp perspective on why AI-generated creative still struggles to connect, and where human craft retains its edge. Then, we shift into a powerful conversation about the Women in Programmatic Network, sponsorship versus mentorship, and the structural shifts needed to create real opportunity. Topics covered during this episode include: The challenges businesses face of navigating an overwhelming amount of AI tools. How evaluating use cases prevents adopting superficial AI solutions. Why teams often rethink workflows after hands-on experimentation. The crucial shift from automating tasks to reimagining processes. How rapid AI development has disrupted traditional annual procurement cycles. What operational readiness means before scaling AI-generated outputs. Why efficiency gains must translate into higher-value brain space. The importance of defining clear jobs to be done by AI upfront. Why agentic AI hype still requires balanced human judgment. How AI creatives continue to struggle to resonate with audiences. The pressure on agency fee structures and output-based pricing. The origins of the Women in Programmatic Network. How systemic opportunity counters persistent pay disparities. Why women in organizations are often over-mentored yet under-sponsored. Tune in now to rethink AI, agencies, and opportunity from the inside out! Rebecca Aliab Deng on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccaadeng/

May 18, 202623 min

AI Is a Tactic, Not a Strategy: What CMOs Must Know with Gareth Turner, Part 2

Are agencies evolving into strategic partners, or becoming commoditized overnight by AI? In this second of two parts, Gareth Turner of Big Black Door joins me again to unpack what AI is really doing to marketing teams, agencies, and the role of the CMO. With his 30 years of brand-side experience, we get straight into the tension between strategy and execution. AI can move fast, but we explore why speed without direction is dangerous; Gareth shares a sharp analogy about a super car with a bad navigation system that perfectly captures the risk that brands face right now. We dig into what marketers actually need in an AI-enabled world, and why more output doesn't automatically mean more impact. As we go on, we tackle the tough questions: What should brands bring in-house? What is becoming commoditized? And what happens to junior talent if AI replaces entry-level work? We explore the collapse of the traditional agency pyramid, the rise of judgment and orchestration over production, and why truly agnostic strategic advice is becoming more valuable than ever. This conversation challenges assumptions about agencies, pricing models, and even career paths in marketing. Topics covered during this episode include: The evolving role of the CMO as conductor of marketing execution. How AI accelerates tactics, but does not replace human-led strategy. Why more marketing output does not necessarily guarantee greater impact. The evolution of agency models from creative to full service. Why CMOs need agnostic strategic partners, not biased advice. The importance of commercial judgment over self-serving recommendations. How executional work is becoming increasingly commoditized by AI. What brands should consider when deciding what to bring in-house. The shift from asset production to oversight and orchestration roles. Why experience enables leaders to instinctively challenge AI outputs. The risk of junior roles disappearing in an automated ecosystem. How the marketing talent pyramid may collapse over time due to AI breakthroughs. The possibility of new AI-native roles emerging unexpectedly. Why pricing models that are based on time and labor may fail. A final reminder to invest in thinking before accelerating execution. Tune in now to explore where real marketing value will sit in the next three years! Gareth Turner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethaturner/

May 11, 202627 min

AI Is a Tactic, Not a Strategy: What CMOs Must Know with Gareth Turner, Part 1

What if the smartest move in marketing is to step back before doing more? We're welcoming Gareth Turner, Founder of Big Black Door, in this episode to check out what's really going on inside the modern CMO's world. We talk about the uncomfortable truth that most marketing leaders don't have enough budget to deliver their plans, and yet a staggering portion of that budget is wasted through poor briefs and misdirected work. Gareth challenges us to zoom out, rethink what the marketing team is actually there to do, and separate strategic clarity from tactical busywork. Later, we explore why so many teams optimize channels and campaigns before clarifying the job to be done. From driving penetration to improving visibility in-store, Gareth shares practical examples of how focused thinking unlocks measurable results (including what happens when an entire business aligns behind one clear goal). We also take a critical look at AI, agency roles, and why true partners should be willing to recommend something other than the service they sell. Topics covered during this episode include: Why poor briefs quietly waste a significant share of spending. What it means to zoom out from short-term business highs and lows. Why the changing agency world needs a client-side perspective too. What current research says about growth priorities and AI adoption. Why budget optimization often starts before real clarity exists. How strong CMOs get their thinking straight before choosing tactics. Why prioritizing initiatives is a clarity issue, not an execution one. How a single penetration goal aligns teams across the business. Why growth comes from first purchase before loyalty takes over. How AI changes tools without changing the marketing fundamentals underneath. Why media allocation should follow the growth problem being solved. What agencies miss when they confuse strategy with their service. Why independent advice matters when brands face expensive decisions. How true partners challenge clients instead of selling default solutions. Why judgment and orchestration matter more than polished execution alone. Listen now for an episode that cuts through the noise around AI, agencies, and modern marketing decisions! Gareth Turner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethaturner/

May 4, 202634 min

From SEO to GEO: Winning in the Age of AI Search with John Campbell

How do you win customers when AI becomes the gatekeeper between you and your audience? In this episode, I sit down with John Campbell, Head of Innovation & AI at ROAST, to unpack how AI is fundamentally reshaping search. We explore the shift from traditional search results to AI-generated answers, and why zero-click results are forcing businesses to rethink how they measure success. John explains how generative engines are changing discoverability, how buyer journeys are becoming less linear, and why simply ranking well on Google is no longer enough. We also get into the commercial implications, discussing how agencies are using AI to automate content, build internal tools, and increase efficiency. On the flip side, we also examine the risks of giving away too much value to clients in the process. We discuss how AI is impacting attribution, revenue models, and even entire service categories. If search is evolving from traffic generation to AI-driven recommendation, the big question becomes: how do you stay visible, competitive, and profitable in this new landscape? Topics covered during this episode include: The shift from SEO to GEO (generative engine optimization) How AI acts like a personal assistant reading sources, resulting in less link clicks from humans. The rise of AI-assisted vendor comparison at the end of buyer journeys. How prompt data reveals users comparing multiple providers simultaneously. Why ranking signals still influence generative engine recommendations. The growing importance of third-party review and directory websites. How structured website content improves visibility in AI responses. Why FAQs, transcripts, and HTML tables enhance discoverability. The early signs of advertising appearing inside AI-generated results. How subscription AI models may reshape digital advertising economics. How agencies are building niche tools using natural language coding. Why AI expands service offerings beyond traditional SEO boundaries. How discoverability now spans search, social platforms, and AI tools. The commercial risks of automating client-facing services without strategy. Why brands must actively monitor their visibility across AI search platforms. Don't get left behind. Tune in now to understand how AI is reshaping search and sales! John Campbell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcampbell/

April 27, 202624 min

Physical Gifting: The Pattern Disrupt That Wins Attention with Kris Rudeegraap, Part 2

Could a $5 gesture outperform your entire digital ad budget? In this second part of my conversation with Kris Rudeegraap, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Sendoso, we start off by discussing the myths surrounding gifting in B2B sales and start tearing them apart. We hear how gifting isn't about flashy $500 items or gimmicks; it's about psychology, creativity, and timing. Kris explains why spending $30 on a thoughtful, well-timed gesture can outperform expensive ad clicks, and how response rates can jump 5-9x when gifting is layered into an omnichannel strategy. We talk about misconceptions around cost, mailing addresses, and whether gifting feels "cheesy." We explore how gifting works across the full buyer journey, from booking meetings to increasing demo show-up rates, nurturing referrals, and even driving renewals. Kris explains how AI is now powering smarter, more personalized gifting decisions, turning what once felt manual into something scalable and strategic. We get into ROI, conversion metrics, automation, and even the psychology of reciprocity and scarcity that makes gifting so powerful. Gifting isn't just about sending stuff, it's about creating pattern disrupts that buyers actually remember. Topics covered during this episode include: The big misconception that gifting is too expensive for modern B2B sales teams. Why comparing gifting ROI to paid digital ads completely changes the investment math. What creative, low-cost mailers demonstrate about effective pattern disruption in crowded markets. The myth that missing mailing addresses prevents successful direct mail outreach campaigns. How smart delivery tools solve remote work and office location challenges seamlessly. Why gifting strategies work for SMB deals, not just large enterprise contracts. The misconception that gifting feels outdated and awkward. How multichannel outreach strategies increase effectiveness far beyond email alone. Why personalization across international borders requires cultural awareness and thoughtful adaptation. The shift toward post-sales gifting to drive renewals and customer expansion revenue. How automation integrates gifting directly into CRM systems and sales workflows. The growing role of AI agents in selecting gifts and crafting messages. Why gifting consistently amplifies response rates 5-9x higher. How reallocating advertising budgets into gifting drives stronger long-term memorability. The psychology of reciprocity and scarcity principles behind gifting success. If you want to rethink outbound and discover what truly captures buyer attention, don't miss this episode! Kris Rudeegraap on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudeegraap

April 20, 202624 min

Physical Gifting: The Pattern Disrupt That Wins Attention with Kris Rudeegraap, Part 1

What happens when your biggest sales advantage suddenly disappears overnight? In this episode I sit down with Kris Rudeegraap, Co-CEO and Co-Founder of Sendoso. In this first of two parts, we rewind to the scrappy early days of his business when Kris was manually packing boxes at night just to stand out in sales. Kris shares how a personal frustration inside his own sales role sparked the idea for the platform that would later raise over $150 million in funding. We talk about pre-selling before the product is ready, building momentum through outbound, and why he refuses to wait for perfection before talking to customers. Kris breaks down the critical decisions that transformed early traction into scalable growth. He explains why hiring external salespeople early is essential to proving true product-market fit, how strategic tech partnerships accelerate momentum, and what it actually feels like to jump from $1M to nearly $5M in a year. We explore the realities of raising multiple funding rounds, building repeatable systems, and surrounding yourself with advisors who have seen the movie before. This all sets up part 2, where we'll take a close look at the advantages of using physical gifting to grow B2B relationships. Topics covered during this episode include: How a growth-hacker mindset shaped Kris' earliest sales experiments. The homemade mail merge system that gave him a competitive edge. What happened when new email automation tools eliminated that early advantage. How testing handwritten notes and surprise gifts opened unexpected sales conversations. Why pre-selling the unfinished product accelerated Kris' early market validation efforts. How disciplined outbound prospecting built the company's first meaningful pipeline. The surprisingly high response rates from personalized cold outreach campaigns. Why hiring SDRs and AEs early proved true scalable product-market fit. The danger of mistaking founder-driven passion for repeatable revenue traction. How strategic tech integrations can unlock exponential co-marketing and partnership growth. The deliberate investment Sendoso made in content and data to strengthen category authority. The importance of building a customer community filled with influential power users. How successive funding rounds accelerated hiring and infrastructure expansion. What consistent traction and repeatable systems signal to serious institutional investors. The mindset shift required to scale beyond pure founder-led hustle. Listen in to uncover the early decisions that shaped a nine-figure growth journey. Kris Rudeegraap on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudeegraap

April 13, 202638 min

The New Rules of B2B Influencer Marketing with Chris Davis

In this episode we're welcoming Chris Davis, Managing Director (UK) at Hypetap, to unpack what influencer marketing really means beyond the buzzword. He explains why trust beats follower count, and how the algorithms have quietly rewritten the rules. Chris explains how a creator with a thousand followers can now outperform someone with a million, and why authenticity is the real currency that brands care about. Then, we turn the lens specifically towards B2B. I challenge Chris on what influence looks like in professional services, on LinkedIn, and inside niche industries. We talk about why going viral doesn't necessarily generate business, what changed in his own content strategy, and how misunderstanding what a client needs can kill a deal. We explore the tension between thought leadership and commercial intent, the rise of AI-written noise, and why consistency still wins every time. Topics covered during this episode include: How trust forms the foundation of authentic creator relationships. The ever increasing importance of compliance and creator accountability. What complexities arise when working with human creators instead of media inventory. How AI tools accelerate creator discovery and content analysis. Why follower count no longer guarantees content visibility like it did a few years ago. The rise of algorithm-driven content distribution and built-in virality. How niche creators thrive within specific professional communities. The implications of influencer strategy inside B2B environments. How a psychological theory can provide insight on digital relationship trust. The economic reality that most creators actually earn below minimum wage. The challenge of turning LinkedIn virality into real commercial leads. Why addressing immediate customer pain is way more effective than selling future vision. The importance of long-term consistency over short-term sales spikes. Listen now to uncover what's changing in influencer marketing before your competitors do! Chris Davis on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/chris-davis-01107318