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APAC's B2B Growth Podcast

APAC's B2B Growth Podcast

Hosted by xGrowth

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Episodes

289

Latest episode

Jun 2026

Language

EN

About the show

On APAC's B2B Growth Podcast, we unpack trends, bust myths, and deliver insights you can put to work today to drive growth in APAC. Hosted by Shahin Hoda & Vinnie Romano Produced by Shahin Hoda & Alexander Hipwell from xGrowth Subscribe to the xG Weekly Newsletter for weekly insights on B2B growth across APAC: https://xgrowth.com.au/newsletter

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60 recent
June 4, 2026Episode 26338 min

Rebroadcast:How Marketing Can Own Go-to-Market (Instead of Just Supporting Sales) with David Heyworth

Too many B2B marketing teams are still talking leads when they should be talking revenue. In this episode, Shahin sits down with David Heyworth, GTM advisor and former Head of Marketing at Vocus, to unpack what it really takes to drive commercial outcomes in the second half of 2025. From ditching MQL vanity metrics to building genuine alignment with sales, finance, and product, David brings hard-won lessons from complex B2B environments in Australia. This is a conversation packed with practical frameworks and honest war stories, including one of the most creative ABM activations you'll hear about: a commissioned coin ceremony at the Australian War Memorial, hosted by former Governor-General Sir Peter Cosgrove, that cemented a 20-year defence sector partnership without a single sales pitch. Guest Introduction David Heyworth is a GTM advisor and CMO with deep experience leading marketing in complex B2B environments across Australia, including his tenure as Head of Marketing at Vocus, one of Australia's leading fibre and network solutions providers. He specialises in go-to-market strategy, sales and marketing alignment, and account-based selling for enterprise and government markets. Key Topics Why agility, balance, and growth are the non-negotiables for B2B marketing teams in the second half of 2025Shifting the conversation from lead generation to revenue opportunities and why talking in dollars gets marketing a seat at the tableHow marketing can own the full GTM motion: building interlocks with sales, finance, and product leadership rather than operating in isolationThe case for an inside sales or sales discovery rep function that sits within marketing and how to prove the model before committing headcountWhy ABM works better when reframed as account-based selling (ABS) and how to sequence one-to-many, one-to-few, and one-to-one engagementBattle-tested lessons from event marketing gone wrong and how champions and pre-agreed outreach schedules turned it aroundA standout defence sector ABM case study: creating a custom commemorative coin and hosting a ceremony at the Australian War Memorial to honour a 20-year partnershipGo-to-market fundamentals that get skipped: market definition, value proposition, messaging frameworks by segment and buyer persona, and why these must come before the marketing plan Resources & Links People Peter Cosgrove-former Chief of the Defence Force and 26th Governor-General of AustraliaSeth Godin - Author and marketing thought leader; David recommends his book Purple Cow on differentiation. Companies & Tools Vocus -Australian telco where David served as CMO.Akimbo -Seth Godin's Podcast Books Purple Cow by Seth Godin Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: David Heyworth Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

May 21, 2026Episode 26250 min

IBM's AI Marketing Journey from Experimentation to Intentional Execution with Craig Mills

What does it actually look like to roll out AI at enterprise scale inside one of the world's most recognisable technology companies? Craig Mills, APAC Head of Demand Generation and AI Marketing Transformation Lead at IBM, shares the real story: the internal lockdowns, the false starts, the springtime of ideas that fizzled, and the hard-won clarity that followed. Craig walks through IBM's shift from experimentation to intentional, use-case-driven execution in 2026, with a focus on email marketing as an underrated strategic weapon. He also shares a simple three-part navigation framework any B2B marketer can apply, regardless of the size of their organisation. Guest Introduction Craig Mills is the APAC Head of Demand Generation and AI Marketing Transformation Lead at IBM. With over two decades at IBM, Craig has led marketing transformation across Asia Pacific, focusing on data-driven demand generation and the practical adoption of AI across complex, multi-market enterprise environments. Key Topics IBM's AI adoption arc: from pre-GPT predictive analytics through the GPT moment, internal lockdowns on AI use, the launch of IBM watsonx in 2023, and the shift to focused execution in 2026The "client zero" experience: how IBM employees lived the AI transformation firsthand through changes to HR systems, well before the broader market caught upWhy email marketing is Craig's number one AI use case and how IBM is moving from successful pilots to systematic, micro-targeted execution at scaleMicro-segmentation at enterprise scale: how AI enables hyper-personalised outreach to audience pockets that were previously too small to justify the investmentThe people-process-tools interconnectivity challenge: why enterprise AI is so difficult and why most organisations are still struggling to get it rightCraig's three navigation points for B2B marketers: get closer to customers and partners, get closer to your product, and go fasterBuilding maximum mental flexibility: why clarity of mission is the prerequisite for individual speed and creative agility in an AI-driven environmentThe IBM Enterprise 2030 finding: 79% of executives expect AI to drive significant revenue by 2030, yet only 24% know where it will come from Resources and Links Tools IBM Enterprise 2030 Report -Craig's North Star on AI strategy: 79% of executives expect AI to drive significant revenue by 2030, but only 24% know where it will come from.This Week in Startups -Podcast by Jason Calacanis. Craig recommends it for building a startup mindset inside large organisations.IBM watsonx -IBM's enterprise AI platform, launched May 2023, central to IBM's AI transformation story.Microsoft Copilot -AI productivity tool Craig uses to move faster through emails and meetings.Claude -Anthropic's AI assistant, used by Craig for external customer research. People Mentioned Jason Calacanis -Entrepreneur and host of This Week in Startups. Craig spent a year listening to build a startup mindset within IBM.Ray Dalio -Founder of Bridgewater Associates. Craig follows him for his geopolitical frameworks and historical perspective on the forces shaping the world. Companies IBM -Global enterprise technology and consulting company. Also mentioned  Diablo - The classic video game. Apparently the only thing more addictive than playing with AI tools at midnight.  Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Craig Mills Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

May 7, 2026Episode 26150 min

How to Build a Marketing Team for the AI Era with Cameron Partridge

AI has made marketing easier to produce - but harder to win. That's the sharp framing Cameron Partridge, Chief Growth Officer at Humanforce, brings to this conversation. Drawing on nearly a decade in the US, including a front-row seat to the AI boom at Invisible Technologies, working directly with OpenAI, Meta, Google, and Microsoft on AI training, Cameron delivers one of the most grounded takes on where marketing is heading. From the collapse of specialist roles to why marketing must own revenue, this is the episode to send to every marketing leader sitting on the fence about what AI means for their team and career. Guest Introduction Cameron Partridge is Chief Growth Officer at Humanforce, an AI-driven human capital management platform serving frontline workforces globally. He spent nearly a decade in the US, most recently as CMO of Invisible Technologies, one of North America's fastest-growing AI companies, where he helped grow revenue from $25-30M to close to $200M run rate while working directly with the world's leading AI model providers. He previously held senior leadership roles at BBDO and Macquarie Group, and began his career at Medibank, Telstra, and GE Capital in Australia. Key Topics Why AI has lowered the floor of marketing quality and what "AI slop" means for how you actually win in a crowded content landscapeHow the marketing function is collapsing from siloed specialists into generalists - and why that's both an opportunity and a threatWhy Cameron no longer hires for deep channel expertise, and what he looks for instead: cultural fit, outcomes focus, and "neural plasticity"Why marketing must stop reporting on activity and move toward shared revenue ownership with sales - and the rise of the Chief Growth Officer titleThe go-to-market engineer role: what it is, why it's a critical hire, and why these people are rare in AustraliaWhy AI boosts individual productivity but not organisational productivity, and how systems thinking closes the gapCameron's AI toolkit: Claude for deep work, ChatGPT for quick questions, Claude Code for vibe coding - and why courses are the wrong way to learn AIThe job outlook for marketers: why middle managers face the most risk and why now is the time to act Resources & Links Tools Claude - Cameron's go-to for deep work and complex tasksClaude Code - Used by Cameron for vibe coding projectsChatGPT - Cameron's "new Google" for quick questionsManus - Meta owned AI agent platform Cameron is experimenting withNotebookLM - Recommended for knowledge workSEMrush - Part of Cameron's cross-platform insights dashboardX (formerly Twitter) - Recommended for following AI researchersSubstack - Recommended for action-oriented AI insights People Mentioned Allie K. Miller - Top LinkedIn voice on AI; also on Instagram Companies OpenAI - Worked with directly at Invisible Technologies; recommended for following researchersAnthropic - Makers of Claude; referenced as a foundational model provider worth followingGoogle - Referenced in Cameron's analytics dashboard and as a major AI model providerInvisible Technologies - Cameron's former employer; recommended as a source for enterprise AI developments Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Cameron Partridge Produced by:  Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

April 23, 2026Episode 26018 min

Unveiling the 2026 ABM Pulse: What's Changed in APAC Over the Last Two Years

See the results: https://xgrowth.com.au/reports/abm-pulse/ ABM is evolving fast in APAC, and xGrowth has the data to prove it. In this episode, Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell unpack the findings from xGrowth's latest ABM Pulse benchmark, based on responses from 93 B2B marketers actively running ABM programs across the region. From a dramatic shift away from one-to-few programs to AI quietly expanding the scale of what a single budget can cover, this episode cuts through the noise and tells you exactly what is actually happening with ABM in 2025. If you are making investment decisions or defending the ABM line item to your CFO, this one is for you. Key Topics Why one-to-few ABM dropped from 72% adoption in 2024 to around 38% in 2025, and what that signals about market maturity in APACHow strategic (one-to-one) ABM has held steady at around 50% as organisations focus on protecting and expanding existing customer relationshipsThe AI effect on program scale: why nearly a third of respondents are now running programs targeting 100 or more accounts on the same budgets they used for far fewerABM investment sentiment in 2025: 57% of respondents are holding or growing their ABM budgets, with only 5.2% cuttingWhy inbound is under pressure from zero-click search and LLM-driven traffic drops, and how this is pushing more organisations toward ABM as a primary pipeline channelBudget planning paralysis: why a significant portion of APAC marketing leaders still had not confirmed their 2026 budgets well into Q1, and what that says about market uncertaintyHow to use benchmark data like this as social proof when making the case for ABM investment to a CFO or board Resources & Links xGrowth ABM Pulse Report - download the full benchmark findingsxGrowth - APAC's B2B growth agencyShahin Hoda on LinkedInAlexander Hipwell on LinkedIn Contact & Credits Hosts: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Produced by:  Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

April 9, 2026Episode 25931 min

Rebroadcast: Building Global Marketing from APAC: Lessons from Airwallex with Jon Stona

Running a global marketing function from APAC sounds like a logistical headache. For Jon Stona, VP of Global Marketing at Airwallex, it's a deliberate competitive advantage. In this episode, Jon unpacks how one of the world's fastest-growing fintechs has architected a marketing org that's globally consistent yet locally authentic - spanning Singapore, San Francisco, London, and regional hubs across Asia, Europe, and Australia. From making the case for product marketing before performance spend, to using an F1 sponsorship to systematically close a trust gap against legacy financial institutions, Jon brings rare clarity to the strategic decisions that most B2B marketing leaders only talk about in theory. If you want to think bigger about brand, team design, and what marketing can actually own in a scaling business, this episode is worth your time. Guest Introduction Jon Stona is VP of Global Marketing at Airwallex, the Australian-founded global payments and financial platform supporting over 150,000 businesses worldwide. Before joining Airwallex, Jon held senior marketing roles at Stripe, Google, and Nike - giving him deep experience scaling marketing across global technology platforms and challenger brands at every stage of growth. Key Topics Why Airwallex built its global marketing org out of APAC, and why the APAC talent pool - wired for fragmentation and global trade from day one - is a genuine strategic assetHow the team is structured across Singapore, San Francisco, London, and regional markets, and why a flat, matrix model is essential when you're this geographically dispersedThe case for investing in product marketing before growth marketing - and why getting your positioning, segmentation, and value prop right is the "root" everything else depends onThe four truths Jon applies to any market expansion: brand truth, product truth, market truth, and user truth - and how product marketing is the function that calibrates where the variation sitsHow Airwallex uses its McLaren F1 partnership to build trust at scale, structured around the reliability-credibility-intimacy-low self-orientation framework - and how they actually measure the pipeline and employee sentiment impactWhere AI is genuinely delivering efficiency gains in marketing (Writer, Jasper, Profound) and the paradox this creates: as AI levels the playing field on distribution, the non-technical facets of marketing - storytelling, positioning, insight - matter more than everJon's advice for B2B marketers who want to take bolder moves: return to first principles, and remember you're marketing to humans who happen to make business decisions Resources & Links Books Nudge by Richard Thaler and Cass SunsteinPredictably Irrational by Dan Ariely AI Tools Writer - AI content platform for brand voice consistency and marketing workflow efficiencyJasper - AI platform for end-to-end marketing content creationProfound - Tool for tracking how your brand appears across LLM platforms Blogs & Publications HubSpot Blog People Mentioned Reko Rennie - Internationally acclaimed Kamilaroi artist who collaborated with Airwallex and McLaren on the 'Shifted Perspectives' campaign at the 2025 Australian Grand PrixDan Ariely - Behavioural economist and author Companies & Platforms AirwallexMcLaren Racing Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Jon Stona Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

March 26, 2026Episode 25826 min

How to Turn B2B Events into a Genuine Revenue Lever with Jannat Dawra

Events are one of the highest-effort, highest-impact levers in B2B marketing, but most teams run them on autopilot. In this episode, Shahin sits down with Jannat Dawra, Head of Marketing APAC at Dotdigital, to break down her commercial, revenue-first approach to field marketing and events. Jannat runs 80 to 100 events a year and brings a rare blend of creative instinct and commercial rigour to the craft. From deciding which event type to run, to managing a thin attendance list two weeks out, this episode is packed with practical frameworks for senior B2B marketers. Guest Introduction Jannat Dawra is Head of Marketing APAC at Dotdigital, a leading customer experience and data platform. Based in Sydney, Jannat leads brand and demand generation across the region and has previously held senior marketing roles at Insider and LinkedIn. Key Topics The three event buckets: sponsored industry conferences (brand and first-touch), strategic partner events (deepening executive relationships), and owned events (roundtables, community events, summits).A commercial approach to event prioritisation: reverse-engineering every event from revenue and pipeline goals. Does it add value to the ICP, accelerate existing pipeline, or strengthen retention and expansion?The opportunity cost framework: why a $10K event is never just $10K, and how to factor in team time and effort before committing.Planning across the funnel: quarterly check-ins with sales, CS, and partnerships to flex the event mix based on where pressure sits in the business.The individual event checklist: clear objective and KPI, stakeholder buy-in, a one-sentence audience definition, speakers matched to the audience profile, and a project plan with contingencies.Post-COVID attendee expectations: smaller rooms, curated guest lists, clearer themes, no buzzwords, and ROI scrutiny over vanity metrics.The 70/30 prospect-to-client split: why each audience needs different event design, and what happens when you blur the two objectives.The post-event playbook: individual follow-up, nurture automations, and treating events as one touchpoint in an 8 to 12-step buying journey. Resources and Links People Mentioned Simon Sinek, speaker and author referenced by Jannat Companies and Platforms Dotdigital, Jannat's company, cross-channel marketing automation platform Books and Podcasts Atomic Habits by James ClearThe Diary of a CEO, podcast hosted by Steven Bartlett Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Jannat Dawra Produced by:  Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

March 12, 2026Episode 25747 min

The New B2B Playbook, What AI Startups Are Doing That Incumbents Aren't with Scott Albro

Getting your buyer's attention has never been harder. In this episode, Shahin sits down with Scott Albro, serial entrepreneur and GTM advisor to early-stage AI founders, to unpack what modern go-to-market actually looks like. Scott reframes the most common answer to "what's changed?" by showing how AI isn't just a trend; it's an accelerant for the three forces already making buyer attention scarce. From founder brand to manufactured moments, tight customer feedback loops to strategic narrative, Scott shares the GTM pillars he works through with his founder clients. He breaks down why the new breed of AI startups is out-marketing incumbents, what Lovable's live-streamed design competition can teach any B2B team, and why ServiceTitan's origin story is the best strategic narrative he's ever heard. Guest Introduction Scott Albro is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market strategist who co-founded TOPO, a sales and marketing research and advisory firm acquired by Gartner, and advises early-stage AI founders on building their first go-to-market functions, drawing on 30 years of experience studying the GTM practices of the world’s fastest-growing companies. Key Topics Why attention scarcity is the defining GTM challenge today, and how AI makes it worse across three fronts: information overload, professional busyness, and competitive noiseWhat incumbent vendors like Salesforce and Workday need to do to defend their position as AI-native startups grow more innovative in both product and go-to-marketFounder brand as a strategic GTM asset: why it goes far beyond LinkedIn posts, and how Nick Mehta made Gainsight synonymous with the customer success movementGrowth experiments and the "Mr. Beast for SaaS" mindset: how Lovable drove 40,000 live viewers and 3 million replays with a zero-budget design competitionBuilding tight customer feedback loops: why the company that iterates fastest wins, and how AI is finally making weekly feedback cycles achievableManufacturing moments: how Mark Benioff staged a fake protest at Siebel's user conference to launch the no-software movement and put Salesforce on the mapStrategic narrative done right: why ServiceTitan's "the trades stand frozen in time" story is the best B2B narrative Scott has ever encounteredThe danger of performative nihilism: why shock-value launches like Cluely's generate page views but destroy brand equity Resources & Links People Mentioned Nick Mehta, former CEO of GainsightMarc Benioff, Chair, CEO and Co-Founder of Salesforce Companies & Tools TOPO / GartnerGainsightServiceTitanLovableEvidenza - a synthetic customer research platformSalesforceG2 Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Scott Albro Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

February 26, 2026Episode 25639 min

Building Xero’s Brand from Scratch in Australia with Penny Elmslie

What does it take to build a brand from nothing in nine weeks, with no assets, no brand book, and a board breathing down your neck? Penny Elmslie did exactly that as the first Marketing Director Xero hired outside of New Zealand, turning a company most Australians confused with a certain photocopier brand into one of the world's most recognised accounting software businesses. Penny shares the story behind Xero's early Australian growth: the scrappy "Hello, Xero with an X" campaign, guerrilla activations like Cloudstreet, the partner strategy that turned accountants into an army, and the event machine that scaled from 30 people in a winery to thousands globally. She also opens up about joining Affinda as CMO and why AI document processing today mirrors where the cloud was a decade ago. Guest Introduction Penny Elmslie is a CMO, Board Director, and marketing coach who spent over a decade at Xero, rising from Australia's first Marketing Director to Global Director of Brand and Community. She is currently CMO at Affinda, a Melbourne-based AI document processing company named one of Australia's fastest-growing tech companies by Deloitte. Key Topics Building Xero's brand in nine weeks: Launching a full campaign with no brand book, no assets, and a tiny budget, and why the insight was simply making people spell the name correctly.The accountant-as-channel strategy: How Xero built its go-to-market around accountants and bookkeepers, turning that partner network into the most efficient channel to market.From "Hello" to XeroCon: How brand experience evolved from small intro sessions to national roadshows and a flagship conference now running worldwide.Cloudstreet and guerrilla marketing: The pop-up activation that scaled from a city storefront into a shipping container touring Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane.B2C thinking in a B2B world: Why Penny approaches every B2B campaign as human-to-human, and how that philosophy shaped her work at Xero.Joining Affinda: What drew her to an AI-first scale-up and the brand-building opportunity still ahead.Reactive vs. responsive: Why responding to market opportunity beats forcing a proactive plan early in a CMO role.Content quality in an AI-flooded world: Why human expertise must stay on the levers, and why brands that commit to their ICP and tone will win. Resources & Links People Chris Ridd- Former MD, Xero Australia (2011–2016)Rod Drury- Co-founder, Xero Companies & Tools Affinda- AI document processing platform; Penny's current companyAffinda Group- Parent company of Affinda, Draftable, Pathfindr, and VesparumDraftable- Document comparison software for legal teamsXero- Cloud-based accounting software for small businessesMYOB- Accounting software competitorLeo Burnett Australia- Creative agency Penny briefed on day one at XeroSputnik Agency- Melbourne agency Penny partnered with to launch Xero's first Australian campaign Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Penny Elmslie Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

February 12, 2026Episode 25546 min

AI Myths Debunked and The Real Data Behind ChatGPT, Jobs, and Search Traffic With Rand Fishkin

While everyone panics about ChatGPT stealing traffic and AI replacing jobs, the data tells a different story. For every search on ChatGPT, there are 373 searches on Google. AI's disruption is far less dramatic than media hype suggests. Rand Fishkin challenges this prevailing wisdom about AI's impact on B2B marketing. In this conversation, Rand and Shahin explore why consensus views are usually wrong, how to build marketing strategies around actual audience behaviour, and what Rand learnt from building Moz versus SparkToro. From audience intelligence research to radical transparency about the venture capital trap, Rand delivers insights that help B2B marketers make smarter decisions. Guest Introduction Rand Fishkin is the co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, an audience research software company, and Snackbar Studio, an indie game development studio. Previously, he founded Moz, where he grew the company from debt to $50M+ in revenue over 17 years. He's the author of Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World and is known for his radical transparency about startup life and his contrarian takes on marketing trends. Key Topics AI's real impact on search: Data shows ChatGPT handles one search for every 373 on Google, and AI hasn't caused predicted job displacement (US unemployment remains historically low).Audience-specific research: Rather than following industry trends, marketers should investigate where their audience spends time using tools like SparkToro to discover relevant channels and influencers.Channel strategy and execution: Effective B2B marketing requires both overarching positioning strategy plus channel-specific tactical approaches for LinkedIn, email, and content platforms.Learning from hype cycles: From mobile apps to crypto, media creates fear-based narratives around technology that rarely match reality, and marketers who chase every trend waste resources.Building companies differently: Rand compares growing Moz with VC funding to building SparkToro through alternative funding, highlighting how serving investors rather than customers creates misaligned incentives. Resources & Links People: Amanda Natividad - VP of Marketing at SparkToro, referenced for her philosophy on social media algorithms and authentic engagement Companies & Tools: SparkToro - Audience research softwareMoz - SEO software platformSnackbar Studio - Indie game development studioChatGPT - Large language model by OpenAIDuckDuckGo - Privacy-focused search engine Books & Resources: Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World by Rand FishkinSparkToro Funding Documents - Open-sourced funding model and incorporation docsSnackbar Studio Funding Documents - Open-sourced funding model for indie game studio Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Rand Fishkin Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

January 29, 2026Episode 25447 min

Standing Out in B2B Marketing Without a Big Budget with Udi Ledergor

In this episode, Udi Ledergor, Chief Evangelist at Gong and author of Courageous Marketing, explains why bold creativity is essential for startups competing in crowded B2B markets. Udi shares the principle behind Gong’s rise from zero to hundreds of millions in revenue: “different is better than better.” From fuchsia branding and a bulldog mascot to running Super Bowl ads as a startup, he shows how courageous marketing helps companies punch above their weight. The episode also explores practical ways to create standout content, foster experimentation, and turn customers into passionate fans, even on a limited budget. Guest Introduction Udi Ledergor is Chief Evangelist at Gong and author of the bestselling book Courageous Marketing. He served as Gong's first CMO, helping grow the company from zero to hundreds of millions in revenue whilst achieving a multi-billion-dollar valuation. Over his 20-year career, Udi has led marketing teams at successful companies, advised startups, served as a board member and angel investor, and mentored hundreds of marketers. Key Topics Different is better than better: Why startups should stop trying to incrementally beat competitors at their own game and instead do something completely different to get noticedPunching above your weight: How small startups can use guerrilla marketing tactics like out-of-home advertising to appear much bigger than they are when selling to enterprisesCreating raving fans as a company-wide operating principle: Why marketing can't own brand alone, and how every employee at Gong works to create raving fan experiences for customers, candidates, and partnersBuilding a culture of experimentation: The importance of fostering an environment where teams can take calculated risks, fail safely, and learn from both successes and flopsGong Labs content marketing: How Gong created original, data-driven content by analysing millions of sales calls to position themselves as the most informed voice in sales effectivenessCategory creation strategy: When it makes sense to create a new category (and when it doesn't), illustrated through the De Beers diamond engagement ring marketing campaignBold visual identity choices: The decision to use fuchsia pink and purple with a bulldog mascot in 2018 when all B2B competitors were using corporate blueStartup advertising on a shoestring budget: Creative approaches to billboard advertising, Super Bowl commercials, and other typically expensive channels that small companies can leverage Resources & Links People Mentioned: Chris Orlob - First content hire at Gong who created most early Gong content independently. Devin Reed - Former Gong sales rep who transitioned into leading Gong’s content marketing. Kyle Lacy - CMO referenced for using AI to eliminate obvious ideas and push creative thinking. Michael Lewis - Author and podcast host whose show drove inbound interest for Gong. Francis Gerety- Copywriter behind the “A Diamond Is Forever” campaign, cited as a category creation example. Companies & Platforms Mentioned Gong - Revenue intelligence platformGong Labs - Data research and insightsDe Beers - Diamond company referenced for category creation example Books & Resources Courageous Marketing - a practical playbook for B2B marketers to drive impact and accelerate career success. Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Udi Ledergor Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

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