Durable Value: An Investor's Podcast

Hosted by Graceada Partners

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Latest episode

Oct 2026

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About the show

Commercial Real Estate Veterans, Joe Muratore and Ryan Swehla, demystify Commercial Real Estate Investing with an inside look into the strategies they use on a day-to-day basis at their company: Graceada Partners.

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60 recent

October 7, 2026Episode 9932 min

40 Years of Real Estate, Relationships, & Investing with Mitch Pleis

Before he spent four decades in institutional real estate, Mitch Pleis was a tight end catching passes from a rookie Joe Montana. In this episode of Durable Value, Ryan sits down with Mitch Pleis, the retired co-head of real estate at CalSTRS and the only person to hold the director of real estate seat there twice. Mitch traces the full arc: recruited by Bill Walsh to Stanford, a brief run with the 49ers, then industrial development, mortgage banking through the savings and loan years, and finally a seat inside one of the largest pension funds in the country. He walks through what the CalSTRS real estate portfolio looked like when the fund first crossed $100 billion with only 3% allocated to real estate, how that role has swung between safe cash flow and return enhancer across three decades, and why he thinks underwriting is about to matter more than it has in years. Much of the conversation lands on relationships. Mitch explains what keeps a partnership alive for 20 years, why owning a mistake counts for more than never making one, and how he actually took the measure of a manager, dinners and baseball games included. Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction: Mitch Pleis and 40 years in institutional real estate 1:07 - Bill Walsh, the West Coast offense, and camp with a rookie Joe Montana 3:00 - From development to finance: the path into commercial real estate 8:02 - CalSTRS then and now: $100 billion in the fund, 3% in real estate 12:54 - How real estate's role in a pension portfolio kept shifting 19:07 - Forty years on: what got better and what go

September 16, 2026Episode 988 min

Durable Value Ep. 98 | Coastal California & Inland West Market Paradox

Over the last 15 years, 1.6 million people have left Coastal California for the Inland West without ever leaving the state. In this episode of Durable Value, Joe and Ryan break down the paradox at the center of the Inland West: two economies sitting right next to each other, dependent on each other, and moving in opposite directions. They walk through the migration data, the affordability math driving it, and the structural forces keeping coastal costs climbing while the Inland West stays within reach. They also lay out the thesis the firm was built on: there are roughly 80 Modestos across the Inland West. Mid-sized markets nestled between larger economies, strong on quality of life and cost, and largely unnoticed by institutional capital. If you're trying to understand where population, jobs, and industry are actually headed over the next few decades, start here. Timestamps: 0:00 - Two Californias: coastal, inland, and where the thesis started 1:03 - 1.6 million people move inland without leaving the state 2:06 - Why they move: affordability, quality of life, and not renting forever 3:08 - Structural tailwinds: remote work, automation, and electrification 4:06 - The 80 Modestos thesis: Spokane, El Paso, Colorado Springs, Reno-Sparks 5:57 - Building the lattice of the West: boots on the ground in every market 7:20 - COVID shined a light on a trend that was already decades old

August 19, 2026Episode 9730 min

Durable Value Ep 97 | The Emerging Manager Journey: What it Really Takes to Compete

What does it really take for a real estate operator to transition into the institutional space? In this episode, we feature a conversation from the Next Gen Capital Conversations podcast, where Ryan sits down with Geoff Dohrmann of IREI and Heather Fernstrom, co-founder and managing partner of Alliance Global Advisors. They discuss the inflection points that lead operators toward institutional capital, the organizational evolution required to get there, and the significant time and resources needed to build an institutional-quality platform. Ryan also shares Graceada Partners’ journey from its first fund to a fourth fund supported primarily by institutional capital. Whether you’re an operator considering the next stage of growth or an emerging manager already building toward institutional partnerships, this conversation offers a candid look at what it takes to earn investor confidence and scale intentionally. 0:00 — Introduction & guest introductions 2:31 — What triggers operators to seek institutional capital 4:07 — Defining institutional readiness: the must-haves 6:05 — Where managers misjudge: time, resources & message consistency 11:02 — Ryan's journey: from Fund I to institutional capital 18:18 — Advice for emerging managers: know your alpha & prepare for the process 24:32 — Standing out among 1,200 competing investment programs

July 29, 2026Episode 9614 min

Durable Value Ep. 96 | Risk Perception vs. Reality in Real Estate

In this episode of Durable Value, Joe and Ryan discuss how most institutional investors skip secondary and tertiary real estate markets; but what if the "perceived risk" is actually lower than primary markets? Here we break down the data behind secondary market investing: why volatility is lower, why liquidity is stronger than you'd expect, and why institutional capital clustering in gateway cities may be the real risk. We also share a real-world example of selling an office building in 2026, and generating a 16% gross IRR, to prove the thesis. 0:00 – Introduction: Secondary Markets & The Risk Mispricing Thesis 1:28 – The 20-Year Data Study (GFC, COVID, Rate Hikes) 4:36 – Institutional Capital as a Predictor of Oversupply 5:07 – Why Capital Clusters in Primary Markets (Career Risk & Benchmarks) 7:01 – The Liquidity Myth: Where Transactions Actually Happen 8:04 – Are Secondary Markets Becoming Institutionalized? 11:34 – How to Execute: Macro Trends + Local Boots on the Ground

July 8, 2026Episode 951 hr 29 min

Durable Value Ep. 95 | Leading Voices in Real Estate with Matt Slepin

In this episode of Durable Value, Joe and Ryan join Matt Slepin on his podcast, Leading Voices in Real Estate, to share how they built a real estate firm by investing where institutional capital rarely goes.They break down why secondary and tertiary markets outperform the headlines, how they source off-market deals, and what "lower middle market private equity" looks like in real estate. 0:00 – Introduction & episode preview 0:14 – Meet Joe & Ryan: Co-founders, 40-year friendship, and the origin of Graceada 4:12 – Business overview: multifamily + multi-tenant industrial, $1B AUM, vertical integration 4:44 – "Secondaries are the new primaries" — the thesis behind Western US secondary & tertiary markets 18:10 – Off-market deal sourcing: the reverse funnel, broker relationships & 20 offers per close 28:10 – Debunking 3 misconceptions: liquidity, performance, and volatility in secondary markets 41:12 – Real deal breakdowns: The Lofts (232 units, Fresno) & Elk Grove Industrial 1:06:14 – Advice for young people entering real estate & lessons from a 40-year partnership

July 8, 2026Episode 9414 min

Durable Value Ep. 94 | Using Lessons from the GFC to Navigate Today's Market

In this episode of Durable Value, Joe and Ryan break down the parallels between the 2008 Global Financial Crisis and today's commercial real estate environment and, more importantly, what actionable steps investors should be taking right now. Timestamps: 0:00 — Intro: GFC vs. Today's Market Overview 2:06 — It's a Financing Problem, Not a Real Estate Problem 3:30 — Cap Rate Expansion: Then vs. Now 5:13 — Where We Are in the Distress Cycle (Early Innings) 8:19 — The Winning Playbook: Liquidity, All-Cash Deals & Staying Power 10:36 — Why Secondary Markets Are More Insulated 13:03 — Key Lessons: Buy Well, Use Conservative Leverage, Grow NOI Fast

May 27, 2026Episode 9344 min

Durable Value Ep. 93 | A Conversation with Jen Stevens, Co-founder of Alliance Global Advisors

In this episode of Durable Value, Ryan sits down with Jen Stevens, co-founder and managing partner of Alliance Global Advisors, to discuss what it takes to build an institutional-caliber real estate investment firm. Jen shares her 17-year journey at the Townsend Group, the founding story of Alliance, and how they've helped over 50 real estate managers — collectively overseeing a trillion dollars in assets — compete and grow. From emerging manager strategy to private wealth distribution, alignment of interest, and career advice, this episode is packed with insight for anyone in the real estate investment industry. 0:00 – Introduction: Meet Jen Stevens & Alliance Global Advisors 0:49 – Jen's career begins at the Townsend Group (2004) 2:50 – The founding of Alliance Global Advisors in 2020 3:56 – What Alliance does: Advising GPS to become better partners 5:54 – 50+ managers advised, over $1 trillion in AUM served 7:27 – Pennsylvania PSERS commits $90M to Fund IV: A milestone moment 13:05 – The case for specialization in real estate strategies 16:01 – Core vs. non-core real estate: Understanding the bifurcation 16:52 – How core real estate fits (and is shifting) in institutional portfolios 21:12 – Lessons from the GFC: Vintage year diversification & tactical investing 23:06 – The changing capital base: Why every manager must think about private wealth 26:16 – Private wealth real estate allocation: Still in early innings 29:21 – Building Alliance's private wealth expertise: Hiring Kurt Edwards 31:39 – Alignment, transparency & governance for emerging managers 33:21 – What true transparency looks like with institutional investors 34:28 – Alignment of interest: Compensation, succession planning & investment committees 37:59 – Career advice: Stay true to your values and your purpose 39:30 – The power of being close to the capital (and the customer)

May 6, 2026Episode 9215 min

Durable Value Ep. 92 | Journey to Institutional Investment Management

What does it actually take to go from friends-and-family syndications to managing capital for public pensions? In this episode, we pull back the curtain on our 17+ year journey to becoming an institutional investment manager — the mindset shifts, the organizational overhauls, the patience required, and the champions along the way who made it possible. If you're an emerging manager trying to level up your capital stack, this one's for you. In this episode: Why the Inland West secondary & tertiary markets represent $1.8 trillion in largely untapped opportunity What it really means to go from syndications to funds — and why most operators stop there The cultural and organizational transformation required to attract institutional capital How to find your champions inside large pensions and family offices Why sticking to your core focus is the single most important thing a manager can do Timestamps: 0:49 — From real estate brokers to institutional managers: how it started 2:18 — Syndications vs. funds: the leap most operators don't make 3:24 — Working with Alliance Global Advisors to build institutional infrastructure 7:46 — People, not organizations, make decisions: the role of champions 10:36 — The mindset shift from deal-by-deal urgency to institutional long-game

May 4, 2026Episode 9114 min

Durable Value Ep. 91: Institutional Real Estate Americas: Research in Secondary & Tertiary Markets

Ryan Swehla joins Institutional Real Estate Americas to share Graceada Partners' latest research on secondary and tertiary markets in the Western U.S. and the results may surprise you. From outperforming primary markets economically, to lower supply volatility and stronger liquidity than conventional wisdom suggests, Ryan breaks down why smaller markets deserve a closer look from institutional investors. Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 0:50 – Defining secondary & tertiary markets 1:58 – 20-year research: economic outperformance vs. primary markets 3:32 – Real estate performance comparison: values, occupancy & net absorption 7:17 – Transaction volume recovery & the role of private capital 10:38 – Liquidity in smaller markets: debunking the misconception 13:55 - Conclusion

March 25, 2026Episode 9012 min

Durable Value Ep. 90: Multi-Tenant Industrial: Apartments for Industrial

In this episode of Durable Value, discover why multi-tenant industrial real estate is one of the most durable and overlooked investment opportunities in commercial real estate. Joe and Ryan break down what makes these smaller industrial parks such a compelling asset class. They explore the unique economics, supply constraints, and tenant diversity that create stable, long-term value. Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction: Multi-Tenant Industrial as Apartments for Industry 5:12 - The Value of Yard Space and Buying Below Replacement Cost 7:49 - The Heartbeat of America: Why Communities Need Small Bay Industrial 8:35 - Tenant Diversity vs. Single-Tenant Risk 10:01 - Why Multi-Tenant Industrial Is Becoming Institutional

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