Design Systems WTF

Hosted by zeroheight

Business Entrepreneurship

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Latest episode

May 2026

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EN-US

About the show

A podcast from zeroheight. Let’s be honest, design systems are full of choice wtf moments. Michelle and Luke, two of our resident design advocates, are attempting to combat this with a new regular series, where they answer a single question around design system troubles every two weeks.

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52 recent

May 26, 2026Episode 5546 min

Is Figma holding design systems back?

Is Figma holding design systems back?Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.It's the month before Config! So we're diving into a spicy topic - is Figma helping or hindering design systems? Is the future of design systems a world where Figma doesn't exist? Or are design tools like Figma essential for the work we do in design systems day to day?Show notesFigma Weave (acquisition / launch)Figma Make Kits announcementThe State of AI in Design Systems (zeroheight)Design Systems Report 2025 (zeroheight)UX Tools Design Tools SurveyConverge (zeroheight)Luke Murphy on BlueskyMichelle Chin on Bluesky

May 12, 2026Episode 5437 min

How do you make developers to care about your design system?

Episode 54 - How do you make developers to care about your design system?Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.Getting developers interested in the design system still seems to be a challenge for a lot of design system teams in 2026. So how do you get them interested in what you're doing? Do you need to bribe them with snacks? Luke and Michelle discuss ways to get engineers on board, why it's essential, and common pitfalls with design systems sans developers.Show notesNone this week

April 28, 2026Episode 5340 min

Is a design system mandate worth fighting for?

Episode #53 - Is a design system mandate worth fighting for?Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.The Design System Report this year suggested that the number one thing design system teams with low adoption rates were missing was a company mandate. However, is that really the thing you should be fighting for? Or is your time better spent focusing on something else? Luke and Michelle will dive into what actually drives good adoption, and whether a mandate is just a wolf in sheep's clothing.Show notesDesign System Report 2026Design System Report webinar on AdoptionDesign System Report webinar on ResourcingThe QuestionRedwoods CommunityZeroheight Case Studies

March 31, 2026Episode 5240 min

Does your design system need a PM?

Episode 52 - Does your design system need a PM?Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Time for the hot takes - do design systems need product management? Or is it something that just gets in the way and stops work happening?Show notesDesign System Report 2026Amy Hupe

March 17, 2026Episode 5134 min

What do you actually test?

Episode 51 - What do you actually test?Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.Once you've done a first pass on anything in your design system, how do you validate it? Do you create complicated automated tests to ensure absolute consistency? Or do you even put it in front of real people to make sure it works?Show notesRocket Surgery Made Easy by Steve KrugAXE MCP serverTetralogical - a great accessibility agency

March 3, 2026Episode 5047 min

Do MCPs care more about patterns or components?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.Now we're in the business of creating context for AI (ew), what is actually important when we're creating documentation that will be used by machines AND humans? Are detailed component guidelines important? Are the foundations essential to get right? Or can we rely on top-level patterns and vague guidance?Show notesHow LLMs use MCPs to read your design system and how to write prompts that work with thatProduct Deep Dive Webinar: MCP, vibe coding, and your design systemPDF of A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander et al.Google Prompting Essentials course on CourseraMarketing Against the Grain podcastAI and Design Systems course with Brad Frost, Ian Frost and TJ PitreTJ Pitre on LinkedInDom Nguyen on LinkedInSil Bormüller on LinkedIn

February 17, 2026Episode 4941 min

Are we delighting enough in our design systems?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience.Design systems kill creativity, right? We've heard that said so many times. But are we actually taking the time to inject joy into the system itself? Not only considering it as a part of the process for what we include in the system, but also in how we do documentation, release notes, and general communication around the design system? Or controversially... is it even important?Show notesLuke’s article on delighting in design systemsSociete Generale release notes articleAaron Walter’s Heirarchy of User NeedsThe socks component in Gitlab’s Pyjamas design system

February 3, 2026Episode 4832 min

Do our design systems give new joiners anxiety?

January 20, 2026Episode 4739 min

What will happen in design systems in 2026?

January 6, 2026Episode 4637 min

What's with the emotional baggage with design systems?

Design system folks seem to be prone to burnout, arguments, and generally feeling underappreciated within their organizations. What makes design systems folks so prone to being loaded with additional weight? We discuss why this happens, as well as some strategies to overcome it.Show NotesAmy Hupe – "Burn baby burnout" (based on her Converge Manchester 2023 talk): https://amyhupe.co.uk/articles/burn-baby-burnout/Lauren LoPrete – "Design Systems Burnout" talk at Clarity 2021: https://www.clarityconf.com/session/design-systems-burnoutRobin Rendle – "Design Systems Burnout" newsletter: https://robinrendle.com/the-cascade/012-design-systems-burnout/Brad Frost - “Master design systems governance with this one weird trick: bradfrost.com/blog/post/master-design-system-governance-with-this-one-weird-trick/