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Design Systems WTF

Design Systems WTF

Hosted by zeroheight

Episodes

58

Latest episode

Aug 2026

Language

EN-US

About the show

A podcast from zeroheight. Let’s be honest, design systems are full of choice wtf moments. Michelle and Luke, two of our resident design advocates, are attempting to combat this with a new regular series, where they answer a single question around design system troubles every two weeks.

Listen to episodes

58 recent
August 18, 2026Episode 6144 min

What is the future of agentic design systems?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Agentic is the buzz word of the moment - but what does it actually mean for design systems? Luke and Michelle have a real conversation about what's hype, what's possible, and where they see it all going. Show notes Luke's webinar on automating documentation — the session covering the facts / distilled / authored buckets TJ Pitre / Southleft — doing agentic design system work (also behind FigmaLint with Brad and Ian Frost) Sil Bormüller — founder of Into Design Systems Romina Kavčič — The Design System Guide — the knowledge-graph-to-pattern work Luke describes Design System Documentation Spec (DSDS) — what you're auditing zeroheight docs against Obsidian and Roam Research — knowledge-graph tools mentioned by Michelle The Information Architecture Conference — Michelle's conference, which usually runs a knowledge graphs workshop n8n — Luke's stacked-agents automation instance Claude Code — used in Luke's Figma-MCP-to-code component flow zeroheight MCP — for the docs-as-context part of that flow Paper — mentioned by Mark in chat for better HTML output Pencil — design-as-code tool with .pen files Penpot — the open-source, web-dev-structured design tool Get in touch Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

August 4, 2026Episode 6052 min

How do you get research findings back to the design system team?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. We're all in agreement that UX Research and design systems should work hand in hand. But how do you actually get this to work in practice? How can UX Researchers and design systems folks work best together? What cadence should you be doing things? And should you be included research findings as part of your design system documentation? Show notes Design System Documentation Spec (DSDS) zeroheight MCP zeroheight MCP overview (help docs) Design Systems WTF #39 — Should designers know how to code? zeroheight Design Systems Report Luke on Bluesky Michelle on Bluesky

July 21, 2026Episode 5947 min

Is Governance Just Theater?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Governance seems to be one of those fancy words that gets thrown around a lot by design system people - but what level of governance is actually worthwhile, and how much of it is theater? Michelle and Luke will dive into governance, what level is good enough, and what bits they think you should scrap. Show notes Brad Frost's governance flowchart — the component approval flow Michelle borrowed and adapted: A Design System Governance Process . Also available as a Figma community file , and his lighter-touch follow-up: Master design system governance with this one weird trick Nathan Curtis on governance and contribution — his writing on contribution models referenced in the episode: Contributions to Design Systems and Team Models for Scaling a Design System Managing Chaos: Digital Governance by Design by Lisa Welchman — Michelle's book recommendation for adding process in a way that isn't "gross", with a historical look at how web governance emerged: Rosenfeld Media Org Design for Design Orgs by Peter Merholz & Kristin Skinner — Luke's companion-piece recommendation on ritual and process for design teams, transferable to design systems: petermerholz.com / O'Reilly Big Vape: The Rise and Fall of Juul — the Netflix documentary on Juul and "how not to do a startup": Netflix

July 14, 2026Episode 5855 min

What do the Config 2026 announcements mean for design systems?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Config 2026 happened in San Francisco last week, so we got together straight after the announcements to discuss what the announcements mean for design systems folks - from code on the canvas, to agents, skills, and connectors, to Figma Motion. What will these announcements mean for the work we do day to day? Show notes Blog post - What do the Config 2026 announcements mean for design systems?

July 7, 2026Episode 5740 min

⁠⁠Is driving adoption just a polite way of begging

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Adoption has been the perennial curse of design systems. Always a problem, never quite fixed, and loads of opinions about how to do it. But are we approaching it in the right way? Michelle and Luke talk about the problem with how adoption has been positioned, whether it's a tactical or cultural thing, and whether the goal should sit with design systems teams or the wider org. Show notes Design Systems are Dead. Long Live Design Systems

June 22, 2026Episode 5643 min

If AI can generate your design system docs, what does that say about how valuable those docs were in the first place?

Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. The State of AI in Design Systems report came out recently, and it shows that everyone is using AI to create documentation. Is this a good thing? Luke and Seb dive into the question of what good documentation is, whether it's even relevant anymore and what parts we should let AI own, and the parts we need to protect.

May 26, 2026Episode 5546 min

Is Figma holding design systems back?

Is Figma holding design systems back? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. It's the month before Config! So we're diving into a spicy topic - is Figma helping or hindering design systems? Is the future of design systems a world where Figma doesn't exist? Or are design tools like Figma essential for the work we do in design systems day to day? Show notes Figma Weave (acquisition / launch) Figma Make Kits announcement The State of AI in Design Systems (zeroheight) Design Systems Report 2025 (zeroheight) UX Tools Design Tools Survey Converge (zeroheight) Luke Murphy on Bluesky Michelle Chin on Bluesky

May 12, 2026Episode 5437 min

How do you make developers to care about your design system?

Episode 54 - How do you make developers to care about your design system? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Getting developers interested in the design system still seems to be a challenge for a lot of design system teams in 2026. So how do you get them interested in what you're doing? Do you need to bribe them with snacks? Luke and Michelle discuss ways to get engineers on board, why it's essential, and common pitfalls with design systems sans developers. Show notes None this week

April 28, 2026Episode 5340 min

Is a design system mandate worth fighting for?

Episode #53 - Is a design system mandate worth fighting for? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. The Design System Report this year suggested that the number one thing design system teams with low adoption rates were missing was a company mandate. However, is that really the thing you should be fighting for? Or is your time better spent focusing on something else? Luke and Michelle will dive into what actually drives good adoption, and whether a mandate is just a wolf in sheep's clothing. Show notes Design System Report 2026 Design System Report webinar on Adoption Design System Report webinar on Resourcing The Question Redwoods Community Zeroheight Case Studies

March 31, 2026Episode 5240 min

Does your design system need a PM?

Episode 52 - Does your design system need a PM? Live recording of the fortnightly podcast Design Systems WTF (back for season two!), where Luke Murphy and Michelle Chin attempt to combat all the amazing wtf in design systems. In each episode, they answer a single question around design system troubles with a Q&A from the live audience. Time for the hot takes - do design systems need product management? Or is it something that just gets in the way and stops work happening? Show notes Design System Report 2026 Amy Hupe

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