Crina and Kirsten Get to Work

Hosted by Crina Hoyer and Kirsten Barron

Business Careers Education Society Culture

Website RSS feed Facebook Instagram YouTube

Episodes

200

Latest episode

Oct 2026

Language

About the show

We have one single mission: Help women find ease, meaning and joy at work and in life. We use our experiences as business owners, entrepreneurs, mentors and inspirational leaders to explore topics that all working women care about: shitty bosses; smashing the patriarchy; balancing work and life; navigating change and getting what you want! We guarantee that you will be entertained and inspired... promise!

Listen to episodes

60 recent

October 16, 2026Episode 20033 min

Who Are You Without Your Job Title?

What do you do? It’s the question we ask approximately 30 seconds after meeting someone, usually before we’ve learned their last name. And our answers? Lawyer. Teacher. CEO. Consultant. As though our business cards are actually personality profiles. But when did what we do become who we are? Our hosts are tackling our complicated love affair with professional identity. Because work can be wonderful! It gives us purpose, friendships, accomplishment, a sense of belonging, and occasionally a paycheck that makes the whole thing worthwhile. Research even suggests that meaningful work is associated with greater life satisfaction. But there's a catch. When your job becomes your entire identity, a lousy performance review isn't just a bad Tuesday. It's an existential crisis. And retirement? Suddenly you're staring into the abyss, wondering who you are without a calendar full of meetings and people needing your expertise. Meanwhile, we've become so obsessed with productivity that even our hobbies need performance metrics. Apparently, we can't just enjoy pickleball. We need to improve our ranking, buy better equipment, and perhaps launch a pickleball podcast. Crina and Kirsten explore the difference between loving your work and needing your work to prove your worth. They also consider how that relationship changes as careers evolve and retirement approaches. Maybe the secret is an identity portfolio: friend, partner, mentor, traveler, gardener, terrible pickleball player, maker of excellent martinis. Some pursuits bring accomplishment, others bring connection, and some should produce absolutely nothing useful. So here's the challenge: Who are you when nobody cares about your job title?

October 2, 2026Episode 19937 min

Grit Needs a Group Chat: The Power of Asking for Help

Angela Duckworth, the psychologist who wrote the book on grit (it's literally called Grit), looks at the image of the lone, heroic striver and says grit alone is not enough - "without exception, every high performer I've studied credits a host of supporters for success." Grit, it turns out, needs a group chat. Crina and Kirsten take on the myth of the self-made worker. They trace it back to Samuel Smiles's 1859 book Self-Help, which warned that "help from without is often enfeebling." That idea caught on in America even more than in Britain and started a whole genre. The myth is we do it alone - we do not. And so many of us are afraid to ask for help. The good news is that the fear is overblown. Research from Brooks, Gino and Schweitzer found that people who ask for advice are seen as more competent, not less, especially when the task is hard and the advisor is an expert. The research also ties asking for help to better learning, better college results, stronger mental health and more successful entrepreneurs. Our hosts get real about when asking does feel risky: workplaces that punish questions, bosses who treat asking as weakness, and the way gender, race, age and seniority change who gets rewarded for asking and who gets penalized - and cover how to ask up, up, across and down, and where asking for help ends and handing off your job begins. Then comes the playbook. Ask early, before it's a five-alarm fire. Ask the right person, ask specifically, and ask where your team can see you. Credit your helpers out loud. Build a support system so help isn't a scramble, and be the person who answers when someone else asks. Your challenge this week: make one ask and send one thank-you. Everyone needs a little help, even the author of Grit.

September 18, 2026Episode 19842 min

Recovery Is Maintenance, Not a Reward

We all know we need to recover from work. The harder question is why so many of us wait until we are completely depleted before we do anything about it. Most of us have a “tell“ letting us know we’re depleted. For Crina, the “tell” may be getting short with family—or flipping off a stranger in traffic after a day that included driving a 26-foot U-Haul to Costco - so, OK, that’s fair on any day. For Kirsten, the signs are also not so subtle – she hates people. The lesson? And thanks to our listener focus group who spoke about headaches and body aches, and being sick to their stomachs. Some of us speak inwardly, and some of us speak outwardly with our tells. You cannot keep priming. The pump on the well is dry. Recovery is not a reward for finishing everything. It is maintenance. Think about training for a marathon. You don’t wait until mile 22 to start hydrating and eating gel packs. You create capacity before you need it. Work is no different. Even when you haven’t had a “hard day,” you have still had a day—and days take something out of us. Research on workaholism makes this more interesting. Not everyone who works a lot burns out. “Engaged workaholics”—people who work intensely because they genuinely love what they do—can fare better than people driven primarily by external pressure or compulsion. Loving your work may buffer some of the damage. But it is not a hall pass from recovery. In fact, people who see their work as a calling can be among the worst at recovery. So what actually helps us recover? Researchers point to four experiences: detachment, relaxation, mastery, and control. Adding meaning and connection it’s like adding jet fuel - whether alongside these four experiences or on their own. The examples of this are myriad, and one wonderful participants in our focus group talked about evenings full of creative pursuits that filled the well for the days to follow. Sounds like mastery and attachment with meaning. Detachment means your body leaves work and your brain comes too. Relaxation brings your nervous system down a notch. Mastery means doing something challenging and satisfying that has absolutely nothing to do with your job—learning Italian, gardening, pickleball, pottery, whatever. And control means getting to decide what your non-work life actually looks like. The cruel twist is the “recovery paradox”: recovery is easiest on good days and hardest on terrible ones—exactly when we need it most. Technology, unfinished work, workplace culture, and leaders who send midnight emails all make detachment harder. And leaders are always modeling a norm, whether they realize it or not. So perhaps the goal isn’t simply to “repair” ourselves after work breaks us down. It’s to restore ourselves continuously. Fill the well. Then prime the pump.

September 4, 2026Episode 19731 min

Nobody’s Watching: Why Good People Break the Rules at Work

Why do people follow rules—and why do perfectly decent people sometimes break them? New research involving more than 14,000 people found something surprisingly wholesome: even when nobody is watching, breaking the rule would make us money, and no one would be harmed, 55–70% of us still follow the rule. Researchers call this “unconditional rule-following.” Translation: a lot of people behave because they genuinely believe they should, not merely because HR, God, or a traffic camera might be watching. And then there are the rest of us. When we break rules, we’re remarkably talented at maintaining our self-image as good people. Psychologists call it moral disengagement; we call it having an excellent explanation. The rule was unfair. We were helping someone. Everyone else was doing it. Nobody got hurt. Or the perennial classic: At least I didn’t do what THEY did. At work, rule-breaking gets even more complicated. Professor Martin Gill’s research suggests employees violate rules for very different reasons: self-interest, helping someone else, pressure from coworkers, or serving what they see as a higher purpose. The employee who pads an expense report and the employee who bends a policy to save a furious customer may both have broken a rule—but they are not engaging in the same behavior. And Kirsten wants to add another category to Professor Gill’s list : disengagement. Sometimes people aren’t nobly rebelling, cleverly rationalizing, or pursuing personal gain. Sometimes they simply stop paying attention. They cease noticing the expectations that allow a workplace—or any community—to function. In other words, the employee who is so disengage they don’t even realize they’re breaking your rule. Which brings us to the social contract: the mostly unwritten agreement that we will each do our part, follow enough of the rules, and avoid making everyone else clean up after us. This is all to say, breaking rules in the workplace can be informative of broken systems, problems, inefficiencies, disengaged workers or maybe even plain misconduct.

August 21, 2026Episode 19632 min

A.I. Can't Do It All-Your Humanity Cannot Be Automated

There’s a question lurking in every office, boardroom, and late-night Google search: What happens when AI starts doing our jobs? Depending on who you ask, AI will eliminate 70 million jobs, replace 300 million jobs, or somehow create even more than it destroys. (Helpful, right?) Goldman Sachs estimates that, as of this spring, AI is eliminating about 16,000 jobs a month after accounting for new jobs being created. Rather than panic, we asked a better question: What can humans still do that AI simply can’t? Turns out, quite a lot - much more than the literal hands-on jobs like caregiving and hospitality and construction and repair maintenance. Crina and Kirsten explore why emotional intelligence may become the most valuable skill in the workplace. AI can write an apology email, but it can’t actually repair a relationship, read a room, or earn trust. And don’t forget about the superhuman power of active listening—hearing not just the words, but the hesitation, the body language, and the thing someone is trying not to say. We also dive into judgment. AI shines when the answers are clear. Humans earn their keep when the waters are muddy. And then there’s creativity. AI is excellent at remixing what already exists. Humans imagine what doesn’t. Innovation comes from challenging assumptions, asking better questions, and occasionally ignoring the way things have always been done. AI is not accountable, it lacks moral reasoning, and it cannot exercise leadership. And whether we like it or not, us humans spend a lot of our lives honing these skills. The future probably isn’t humans versus AI. It’s humans who know how to use AI without surrendering the very qualities that make us human. That’s still our best competitive advantage—and fortunately, it’s one that can’t be downloaded - because we are precious!!

August 7, 2026Episode 19537 min

Remote Work Or Back To The Office? The Data Is In!

If you’ve ever wondered whether your boss wants you back in the office because collaboration is magical…or because they miss having an audience…well, the latest research says the answer might be: yes. First, the uncomfortable news for Team Sweatpants. Labor economists Natalia Emanuel, Emma Harrington, and Amanda Pallais analyzed data from nearly 600,000 Americans and found that remote work appears to explain about one-third of the increase in mental distress over the last decade. Eighty-four percent of remote workers spend their workday entirely alone. More than half feel less connected to coworkers. People who live alone were hit hardest, with dramatically higher rates of isolation and even days with no in-person contact at all. It turns out that your annoying coworker who always wanted to chat by the coffee machine may have been performing a public service. But before CEOs start printing “Back to the Office!” banners, there’s another fascinating twist. A six-year Wharton study of Fortune 500 CEOs found that the strongest predictor of demanding employees return wasn’t productivity—it was narcissism. Researchers measured it with delightfully creative proxies like signature size, the size of executives’ photos in annual reports, and how much more they paid themselves than everyone else. Their conclusion? Some leaders simply thrive on commanding a room. Eye contact, booming voices, dramatic hand gestures—Zoom just isn’t the same stage. So who’s right? Probably everyone, and no one. The evidence suggests that productivity depends more on the person and the work than on the location. Some people flourish at home. Others desperately need the energy of being around humans. And while rigid return-to-office mandates don’t improve company performance, they do increase turnover—especially among women—and often send top performers looking for more flexible employers. The emerging lesson isn’t “office good” or “remote good.” It’s that connection matters. One study found that getting remote employees together just one intentional day each month increased productivity and reduced attrition. That’s a remarkably small investment for a surprisingly large payoff. Maybe the future of work isn’t about choosing between home and the office. Maybe it’s about designing moments that actually justify being together. Because if we’re asking people to commute, put on real pants, and brave rush hour, we’d better have a reason better than, “The CEO misses making an entrance.” As a worker, consider what works for you and most importantly WHY it works for you. As a leader, consider that workers have different needs and the work of your organization - but not your ego.

July 24, 2026Episode 19438 min

The Productivity Trap: When Doing More Costs You More

Have you ever noticed that “I’m so busy” has become less of a complaint and more of a humblebrag - or a declaration of importance? Somewhere along the way, productivity stopped being something we did and became proof of who we are. We wear exhaustion like a merit badge, answer emails at 10 p.m. like we’re saving lives, and somehow even our hobbies have become opportunities to optimize. This week we’re asking a provocative question: What if the biggest obstacle to productivity…is our obsession with being productive? There’s growing evidence that we’ve confused motion with progress. We answer emails instead of having difficult conversations. We organize our desks instead of making decisions. We check twenty small tasks off the list while avoiding the one thing that would actually move the needle. As one leadership expert put it, you can spend an entire day being productive and accomplish nothing important. And this pressure doesn’t fall equally on everyone. For many women, productivity comes with an invisible second shift. It’s mentoring the new employee, remembering birthdays, planning celebrations, smoothing over team conflict, organizing the family calendar, and making sure everyone else has what they need. None of it shows up on a productivity app, yet it consumes enormous mental bandwidth. It’s entirely possible to be incredibly productive and still feel like you’re falling behind because so much of your work is invisible. The irony? The science suggests that relentless productivity pressure actually makes us less productive. Workplace stress is associated with lower performance, poorer well-being, and more mistakes. Burnout costs organizations millions of dollars every year through absenteeism, turnover, disengagement, and lost creativity. More than half of workers report burnout, and women consistently report higher rates than men, likely because they’re balancing professional responsibilities alongside disproportionate caregiving and household work. Then there’s our “always on” culture. Every notification, Slack message, text, and email chips away at our ability to think deeply. Being available all day isn’t the same thing as doing meaningful work all day. In fact, sustained urgency narrows our thinking, while many of our best ideas arrive during walks, vacations, showers, or moments when our brains finally have room to wander. Perhaps that’s why some of the most successful organizations are rethinking the equation. Flexible work arrangements, digital quiet time, and even four-day workweeks have shown that rest isn’t the reward for productivity—it’s one of its ingredients. So maybe we’ve been asking the wrong question. Instead of “How can I get more done?” perhaps we should ask, “What deserves my attention?” Because the goal isn’t to optimize every minute of your life. It’s to build a life where the minutes that matter actually have room to happen.

July 3, 2026Episode 19329 min

Your Network Matters, But Your Weak Ties Matter More

It turns out the old saying “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know” is annoyingly real — but for women, the “who” part often works differently, and less efficiently, than it does for men. Referrals lead us to our next job or opportunity or experience. First - let’s consider the referral network. The research is clear: weak ties matter. That cousin you only see at Thanksgiving, the former coworker who still owes you a coffee, the mom from preschool pickup — those loose connections are often the ones that open doors. And in the digital age, the data still holds up: a little distance in your network can be a powerful thing. Not so distant that you’re strangers, not so close that you already know the same five things — just enough connection to create a new pathway. But here’s the catch: referral networks aren’t evenly distributed. Referrals are a major route to jobs, yet women are less likely than men to benefit from them. That’s not because women aren’t asking. It’s because the system often quietly favors men, especially in male-dominated spaces, where the “obvious candidate” in someone’s mind is still too often male. Add in the old boys’ club — golf games, drinks, fishing trips, and the deals that happen in rooms women aren’t invited into — and the gap starts to look a lot less mysterious. That’s why this episode isn’t about hustling harder or becoming a LinkedIn goblin. It’s about using the generous, invisible network women already build for each other — and making it more intentional. Is there an introduction you have been meaning to make? Do it. Forward the resume. Say the name in the room. Become the weak tie to the opportunity for another woman, and then become her intentional sponsor. Because women don’t just need more advice. We need more action.

June 12, 2026Episode 19232 min

Five Go-To Lines for Better Boundaries at Work

Have you ever walked out of a conversation and thought, “Why didn’t I say that?” Welcome to Whether you’re dealing with a chronic interrupter, an endless complainer, or the colleague who appears in your doorway just as you’re trying to focus, difficult interactions can leave us feeling frustrated, drained, and replaying conversations long after they’ve ended. The truth is that when we’re under stress, our brains aren’t exactly operating at peak performance. We tend to freeze, fawn, fight, or flee. That’s why having a few simple, pre-loaded phrases can be surprisingly powerful. These aren’t clever comebacks or magical scripts that instantly solve every workplace problem. They’re practical tools that help us stay calm, clear, and intentional when the pressure is on. Crina and Kirsten share five go-to sentences that can help protect your time, redirect unproductive conversations, and create healthier boundaries at work. From the simple but effective “I’ve got ten minutes right now, and then I need to get back to this project,” to the solution-focused “I hear you’re frustrated. What’s one thing we can actually change here?” each phrase is designed to gently shift the dynamic without escalating tension. The conversation also explores how to handle interruptions with confidence, address recurring workplace behaviors without sounding accusatory, and perhaps most importantly, stop carrying work frustrations home with you. Sometimes the most valuable boundary isn’t one we communicate to someone else—it’s the one we create in our own minds when we decide that a difficult interaction doesn’t get to occupy our evening. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize that these sentences aren’t meant to be recited word-for-word. Think of them as templates. Try them on, adapt them, and make them sound like you. To Your homework is simple: choose one sentence and one person. Use it once this week and pay attention to what happens. Maybe the other person responds differently. Maybe they don’t. But chances are you’ll notice something important—you feel more grounded, more confident, and a little less at the mercy of everyone else’s behavior. And that’s a skill worth practicing.

May 29, 2026Episode 19137 min

Your Birth Year Shouldn't Matter--Ageism at Every Age

Age bias affects people across the entire career span. For women, this bias is compounded by gender, creating what researchers call “gendered ageism,” a double bind where there is effectively no “right” age to be a professional woman. Drawing on survey data from 913 women leaders across industries including law, healthcare, higher education, and nonprofits, Harvard Business Review research reveals a consistent pattern: women face age-based bias at every stage of their careers. Definitions of “young,” “middle-aged,” and “older” vary by context, but the experiences of discrimination are strikingly similar. Older women often encounter “oldism,” where they are viewed as less relevant or valuable, in contrast to men who are seen as gaining wisdom with age. Participants reported being overlooked for advancement and having their voices dismissed. Younger women face “youngism,” including being patronized, mistaken for junior staff, or not taken seriously in leadership roles. Many experience “credibility deficits,” where their expertise is questioned, forcing them to continually prove themselves. Appearance-based scrutiny is also common, with professional accomplishments overshadowed by comments on looks. Women in midlife—traditionally thought to be in a career “sweet spot”—fare no better. They are often judged based on assumptions about family responsibilities, menopause, or perceived lack of vitality. Hiring and promotion decisions frequently favor similarly aged men, reinforcing the idea that women are either “too young” or “too old,” but rarely seen as just right. Despite these challenges, research shows that age and gender diversity benefit organizations. Diverse teams perform better, especially in complex or crisis situations, while age discrimination reduces job satisfaction and engagement. The path forward does not rely solely on institutional change but also on individual action. Key strategies include examining personal assumptions about age, building intentional intergenerational relationships, advocating for age inclusion in diversity frameworks and actively supporting other women through mentorship, sponsorship, and amplification. Ultimately, the research highlights a systemic issue: age is often used as a convenient justification to undervalue women at any stage. Recognizing and challenging these patterns is essential to creating workplaces where women are seen as credible, capable, and worthy—at every age. Good Reads: Older women ‘disappear’ from BBC presenting roles, review finds | BBC | The Guardian Age, Women, and Hiring: An Experimental Study | Gender Action Portal Women in Leadership Face Ageism at Every Age The Trap Working Women Can’t Escape, No Matter Their Age