Creative Outcomes

Hosted by Upsourced

Business Management Education

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May 2026

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About the show

Welcome to Creative Outcomes. If this is your first time here, we work with nearly 100 digital and creative agencies, and we bring you the inside scoop, and spill the tea for what makes the best - the best.

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52 recent

May 21, 202628 min

How Smart Agencies Stay Profitable as They Grow

Most agency owners assume bigger agencies should be more profitable, but the data says otherwise.In this episode of Creative Outcomes, Ryan Watson breaks down insights from Upsourced’s annual Creative Agency Benchmarking Report, built from financial data across 80 agencies across the U.S.The surprising takeaway?As agencies grow past ~25 employees and into the $3M-$5M range, profitability often declines instead of improving.Ryan explains:- Why realized rates and project margins collapse as agencies scale- The “grow mode inflection point” agencies hit around $3M–$5M- Why larger teams create operational bottlenecks- The leadership structure agencies actually need to scale- When to introduce people managers, directors, and department leaders- Why agencies overhire in G&A and underinvest in service leadership- How to “shrink the organization” to scale effectivelyIf you’re running or scaling a creative, marketing, branding, or digital agency, this episode will help you avoid one of the most common (and expensive) growth traps.Subscribe for more agency insights!TIMESTAMPS:00:00 — Intro & What the Agency Benchmarking Data Revealed02:00 — Why Agencies Become Less Profitable as They Grow03:30 — The $3M–$5M Agency Inflection Point05:30 — The First Leadership Shift: Introducing People Managers08:00 — Building a Sustainable Team Structure11:30 — When Agencies Need Directors & Department Leadership14:00 — Why Scaling Starts to Feel Hard16:30 — The “Shrink the Organization” Framework20:00 — Sales & Marketing Mistakes Agencies Make23:30 — Why Agencies Overhire Overhead Roles27:00 — Financial Benchmarks & Final Takeaways

April 30, 202641 min

The Readiness Test Every Agency Should Pass Before Growing

Are you actually ready to grow, or just growing too fast?From operational strain to leadership bottlenecks, we explore what happens when agencies scale before they’re truly prepared and how to recognize the difference between healthy growth and avoidable chaos.If you're in a season of growth (or thinking about it), this conversation will help you pressure-test where you really stand.TIMESTAMPS:00:00 – Intro & framing: growth vs. readiness03:00 – Signs your agency is growing too fast08:00 – Why more revenue can create more problems14:00 – The operational cracks that show up first20:00 – Client experience under pressure26:00 – When leadership becomes the bottleneck31:00 – Systems, structure, and what “ready to scale” actually means36:00 – The “pirate ship to navy” transition40:00 – How to evaluate if you're truly ready for growth43:00 – Final thoughts & takeawaysIf your agency feels stretched, reactive, or constantly catching up, this episode will resonate. with you.Subscribe to our channel for more insights!

April 16, 202650 min

What It Takes to Build a Sellable Agency and Lessons Learned

Most people think building an agency is about growth, but it’s about building something that actually works without you.In this episode, Craig Baldwin (Partner, Upsourced) and Albert Banks (Principal, Apertus) break down:- What it really takes to build a sellable agency- The biggest mistakes founders make when scaling- Why most agencies never reach a real exit- Lessons from building and selling an agencyIf you're building, scaling, or thinking about an exit, this is a great listen for you!Subscribe to our channel for more agency insights!TIMESTAMPS:0:00 – Intro1:10 – Starting the first agency4:30 – Early growth & lessons learned8:15 – What actually drives scale12:40 – The biggest mistakes founders make17:20 – What makes a business sellable21:10 – The exit experience (what surprised Albert)25:00 – Advice for agency owners today28:30 – Final thoughts

March 26, 202638 min

How to Build a Revenue Engine That Doesn’t Depend on You

Most agencies don’t have a growth problem… they have a consistency problem.In this episode of the Creative Outcomes Podcast, Craig Baldwin, Partner at Upsourced, sits down with Danielle Fauteaux (Getting Momentum) to break down what actually drives sustainable agency growth - and why most founders get it wrong.If you’ve ever felt like growth comes in waves, depends too much on you, or feels like something you “fix” and move on from, this conversation will challenge that thinking.They dive into:- Why growth is not a one-time problem to solve- How to turn revenue into a team-wide responsibility- The 5 pillars of a scalable growth system- Why most agencies rely too heavily on founders for sales- How to use scorecards to drive a consistent pipeline- The mindset shifts holding agencies back from scalingThis isn’t about hacks or quick wins. It’s about building a system that compounds over time.If you run or lead an agency, this is a must-watch.—📌 Connect with Danielle:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-fauteaux/Website: https://gettingmomentum.com/blog/video-operationalizing-client-acquisition-retention/ For more insights, subscribe to our channel!TIMESTAMPS:00:00 – Why agency growth is harder than it looks 02:13 – The biggest mistake: treating growth like a one-time fix 04:08 – Growth is a system, not a moment 06:22 – Why revenue shouldn’t sit on one person 07:12 – The 5 pillars of a scalable growth engine 12:25 – Inputs vs outputs: how scorecards actually drive growth 15:41 – Why most growth efforts fail (and what to change) 21:03 – The long game: relationships over quick wins 25:32 – The mindset traps holding agencies back 26:19 – Treat your agency like your most important client 27:36 – “No one cares what I have to say” (and why that’s wrong) 33:35 – Nice vs kind leadership (and why it matters for growth) 34:44 – Choosing your hard: consistency vs chaos 36:06 – The 80/20 of sustainable growth 37:32 – Where to find Danielle + how to work together

March 12, 202621 min

The Margin Triangle: How Profitable Agencies Actually Manage Gross Margin

In this episode, Ryan Watson (founding partner at Upsourced) breaks down the Margin Triangle, a framework used to help 7- and 8-figure agencies build predictable profitability.Most agency owners focus on revenue growth, but revenue alone doesn’t guarantee profit. The real driver of agency profitability is gross margin, and understanding the mechanics behind it can completely change how you run your business.Inside this episode you'll learn:• Why gross margin is the most important financial metric in an agency• How to calculate Agency Gross Income (AGI) correctly• The two levers that control profitability in every agency• Why most agencies have a project margin problem or a utilization problem• What healthy agencies target for gross margin, project margin, and utilizationRyan also explains how these numbers work together mathematically and why managing them is an ongoing operational discipline, not a one-time fix.If you're running a marketing, creative, or digital agency and want to build a repeatable, sustainable, profitable business, this framework is essential.Key Targets Discussed• Healthy Agency Gross Margin: 45–55%• Target Project Margin: ~65%• Typical Service Team Utilization: ~70% blendedTogether, these form the Margin Triangle, the core framework Upsourced uses with agency clients.For more insights, subscribe to our channel!TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Why agency profitability starts with gross margin01:50 How to calculate gross margin in an agency05:19 The Margin Triangle: the 2 levers that drive profit08:03 Project margin: what it is and how to improve it13:01 Utilization: what counts and how to measure it18:23 The target numbers for a healthy agency19:49 Why managing margin is a continual exercise21:21 Final takeaway: conquer the margin triangle

March 5, 202620 min

RFPs for Agencies: How to Qualify Opportunities and Stop Wasting Time

RFPs: necessary evil… or optional trap?In this episode of Creative Outcomes, Craig Baldwin breaks down how agencies should think about RFPs (Requests for Proposals) - why clients issue them, what red flags to watch for, and how to qualify opportunities before your team burns weeks of time chasing work you were never going to win.If your agency is relying on RFPs as your primary growth channel, this conversation is your wake-up call: RFPs can drain your sales and marketing momentum, compress margins, and create “busy work” that feels productive but doesn’t move revenue.You’ll learn:- The 3 main reasons clients send RFPs (and what each one signals)- The #1 deal-breaker: no access to decision makers- How to estimate the real cost of responding (and why tracking matters)- A simple litmus test to decide whether to respond or walk away- How “pipeline anxiety” leads teams to chase the wrong work- Why having an internal RFP qualification point-of-view is a competitive advantageFor more insights, subscribe to our channel!TIMESTAMPS:00:00 — Why RFPs feel brutal01:10 — Why clients put out RFPs03:10 — The “busy work” trap in biz dev04:35 — Quick fit check (use AI + spot dealbreakers)05:30 — The biggest red flag: no decision-maker access06:45 — Estimating true effort + internal cost07:55 — Why we still say yes (FOMO + pipeline anxiety)09:00 — Build internal win/loss “house knowledge”10:10 — Track the cost (hours, roles, rough math)11:40 — Litmus test: cold vs warm + relationship strength12:50 — Litmus test: is it work you want (and can win)?13:55 — Litmus test: delivery risk + subcontracting reality15:05 — Create an RFP qualification POV (filter faster)16:20 — If you’re living on RFPs, what broke upstream?18:05 — Use RFPs to show how you think (challenge the client)

February 16, 202622 min

Time Tracking for Agencies: The Truth About Profitability

If you run a marketing or creative agency, you’re probably facing one of two problems: • You’re not making the profit you expected • Your team feels slammed… but you suspect there’s excess capacity And somewhere along the way, someone told you: “You need time tracking.” In this episode, Ryan Watson (Partner at Upsourced) gives the definitive overview of how agency owners should think about time tracking - why it matters, how to implement it properly, and how to avoid the common mistakes that make teams resent it. You’ll learn: - Why gross margin is the whole ball game - The “Margin Triangle” framework (Project Margin + Utilization) - Why most scaled agencies track time (and why skipping it is the exception) - How to roll out time tracking without destroying morale - Why time tracking should not be used as a performance management tool - The daily and weekly process that actually works - How to create buy-in (and avoid garbage-in, garbage-out data) - Why alignment + process matter more than software Time tracking isn’t about micromanagement. It’s about building a profitable, scalable, sustainable agency. If you want better margins, better utilization, and better decisions - this episode is for you. Subscribe for more agency finance & operations insights. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 The 2 Problems Most Agencies Face 01:31 Gross Margin Is the Whole Ball Game 02:28 The Margin Triangle: Project Margin + Utilization 04:34 Do You Really Need Time Tracking? 06:43 Why Most Scaled Agencies Track Time 07:08 Why Time Tracking Fails (Alignment & Buy-In) 09:36 What NOT to Do: Don’t Weaponize Utilization 14:16 Process Over Software 15:33 The Right Cadence: Daily Tracking, Weekly Compliance 19:56 Close the Loop: Use the Data or Lose Buy-In 21:32 The Formula for a Profitable, Sustainable Agency

November 20, 202539 min

Compensation Structures for Partners

“How much should I be paying myself?”If you’re an agency owner or partner, you’ve probably asked that question more than once. In this episode of Creative Outcomes, Upsourced partners Ryan Watson and Craig Baldwin break down what partner compensation should look like in a modern agency.We get into:- How to think about “the maximum you can pay yourself” without starving the business- Why cash reserves and forecasting are critical before you touch distributions- The difference between S corps and partnerships when it comes to salary vs. distributions- How often to run profit distribution calculations (monthly vs. quarterly vs. annually)- Why borrowing from client prepayments or lines of credit to “pay yourself” is a huge red flag- The tough question: “At what point am I better off just getting a job?”- What it really means to be a partner and why sloppy equity promises are so dangerousIf you’ve ever wondered whether you’re paying yourself enough, too much, or in the wrong way, this episode is for you.Subscribe for more conversations on agency finance, profitability, and building a business that actually pays you what you’re worth.Timestamps:0:00 – Intro1:10 – What do we mean by “partner compensation”?3:45 – How much should I actually pay myself?7:00 – Cash reserves and distributions9:30 – S corp vs. partnership: how structure changes comp17:20 – How often should I take profit distributions?19:40 – Basis, loans, and why “extra cash” might not be profit28:00 – When your business isn’t paying you enough34:30 – Partner dynamics, equity, and bad cap tables

November 20, 202529 min

Pricing Models That Protect Your Margin

Most agencies say they want “value-based pricing.” Few actually do it—fewer do it well. In this episode, Craig Baldwin, Partner at Upsourced, breaks down the real-world pricing models agencies use (time & materials, fixed fee, retainers/subscriptions, outcome/value-based, hybrids) and how to choose what protects margin and manages risk. The goal isn’t a perfect model; it’s a consistent 50%+ project/client margin and a healthier mix of recurring revenue so you’re not living project-to-project.You’ll learn:- The core pricing models and when they shine (or sink you)- Why true value-based pricing is rare—and risky—without data- Hybrid structures that share upside while capping downside- How recurring revenue creates a floor (and why projects set your ceiling)- The only metric Craig cares about: reliable marginTIMESTAMPS:00:00 Intro01:00 The big three: time, deliverable, or outcome04:10 Time & Materials (incl. cost-plus)05:54 Fixed-fee/project pricing—scope risk & expectation creep08:14 Retainers & “subscription” models (what’s the real difference?)09:46 What strict value-based pricing actually means12:00 Hybrid pricing (base + performance)13:00 Other models: barter, equity—why they usually disappoint17:24 Productized vs. bespoke retainers19:24 Project vs. recurring revenue (floor vs. ceiling)20:55 The hype vs. the practice of “value-based”24:54 Yes, you’ll still estimate time under the hood26:45 Choosing what fits your strengths28:37 Margin targets and diagnosing shortfalls29:40 Wrap & how to get in touchLinks:Work with Upsourced: www.upsourcedaccounting.comEmail Craig: cbaldwin@upsourcedaccounting.comIf this helped, hit Subscribe—new episodes on building durable, profitable agencies.

November 20, 202552 min

Playing Business vs. Running a Business: The Brutal Truth for Agencies

Are you busy all day—but not moving the ball? Ryan Watson and Craig Baldwin (Partners at Upsourced) break down “playing business”: the activities that look productive but don’t create revenue, profit, or durability. Learn the red flags (overspending ahead of growth, shiny‑tool chasing, coach‑collecting, RFP lotteries, acquisition daydreams) and the habits of winning agencies (focus, thrift, deputies, account farming, and clear positioning).What you’ll learn:- Why “hire when it hurts” protects margins- Process is greater than tools (and when software actually helps)- How to keep less than 50% of annual revenue from existing clients- The mindset behind 30–35% net‑margin agencies- “Do well to do good”: profit powering purposeTIMESTAMPS:00:00 Intro & why “playing business” matters07:50 Symptom #1: Spending ahead of growth; “hire when it hurts”13:20 Playbooks & proxies vs. doing the work14:20 Symptom #2: Shiny‑tool chasing (software ≠ process)17:35 Symptom #3: Raising capital & M&A daydreams24:05 Symptom #4: Coach‑collecting and abdicating judgment27:00 Symptom #5: Pipeline neglect; dangers of RFP lotteries31:00 Behavior #1: Deputies, swim lanes, and collaboration rhythms33:00 Behavior #2: Ruthless focus; time as the scarce resource37:00 Behavior #3: A clear calling card/positioning38:30 Behavior #4: Account management are greater than new logos42:00 Behavior #5: Thrift and needs‑based spending46:30 Mission vs. profit: “Do well to do good”51:40 Wrap & key reminder: identify candy vs. nutritionSubscribe to our channel for more insights!