Creative Distillation

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102

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May 2026

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About the show

University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights.

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May 21, 202650 min

100: Flaming Tiki, Inside Jokes, Outsized Insights and an AI Showdown: It’s our 100th Episode!

Welcome to Episode number 100 of Creative Distillation! We’re still in San Francisco at the fantastic Pagan Idol tiki bar. We’ve moved from the secret back room to the main deck of this magic vessel, where Brad and Jeff are joined by two guests: Tom Dean, a professor in the Department of Management at Colorado State University and previous guest on the podcast; and Bob Eberhart, Associate Professor of Management at the University of San Diego, and perhaps the most frequent guest to appear on Creative Distillation. (We’ll have more on that later.) Already a couple of tiki drinks into the evening, our fearless four gather around a tiny table, discussing the impact of the first 100 episodes of Creative Distillation, and musing about our humble podcast’s future. To prepare for this episode — and unbeknownst to each other — Brad and Jeff each fed transcripts from all of our episodes into their preferred AI oracle in order to see what kind of actionable insights might be gained from that. Not only did these queries offer some fascinating — if not debatable — perspectives; they also, unexpectedly, revealed a pretty clear winner between two of today’s leading AI chatbots. And somewhere in the middle of it all, Pagan Idol GM and Episode 99 guest Maggie Sanders, shows up with an incredible flaming bowl of tropical delight. It’s a fun and crazy episode that in the end has us toasting — and looking forward — to another 100 episodes of Creative Distillation. Enjoy and cheers! — Episode #100 of Creative Distillation was recorded at Pagan Idol in San Francisco. For more information visit paganidol.com. Learn more about Tom Dean on his faculty page at Colorado Statue University: https://biz.colostate.edu/about/directory/tomd Learn more about Bob Eberhart on his faculty pages at the University of San Diego: https://www.sandiego.edu/business/about/biography.php?profile_id=14906 And a gigantic, sincere cheers and thank you to all of you for listening to Creative Distillation. This one’s for you!

May 7, 202643 min

99: Rum Martinis and Daywalkers: Tiki Time with Jeff (and Brad) @ San Francisco’s Pagan Idol

We are excited to be coming to you from the golden shores of California, the City by the Bay, and one of the tiki capitals of the world: San Francisco. This is Episode #99, the first of three conversations in Creative Distillation’s 100th episode celebration, which kicks off with Brad finally joining Tiki Time with Jeff to speak with Maggie Sanders, General Manager of Pagan Idol. Maggie describes how she’s gone from growing up on a California berry farm to being the General Manager of one of the city’s more legendary tiki bars — all while mixing a Daywalker for Jeff and a Rum Martini for Brad. Jeff’s tiki protocol leads to a deep dive into the culture and customer experience of tiki, and the different ways different customer types interact with the bar. After geeking out on tiki’s history and sharing their earliest personal tiki memories, Maggie, Brad and Jeff look to the future of tiki, and potential innovations and new interpretations. (A Black Sabbath-themed tiki party, for example.) As they (almost) always do, Brad and Jeff bring it back to showing the broader lessons that tiki culture can offer any entrepreneur, namely the importance of experimentation, adaptation, and storytelling. It’s a truly delightful conversation with one of the best mixologists we’ve ever had on the podcast. There’s a lot of passion flowing — as well as rum — in this exciting episode of Tiki Time with Jeff. Aloha and cheers! — You’ve been listening to Tiki Time with Jeff (and Brad!), a special, semi-occurring production of Creative Distillation. This episode was recorded on location at Pagan Idol in San Francisco’s Financial District. For more information visit https://www.paganidol.com/ Stay tuned next time for Creative Distillation episode #100, also recorded at Pagan Idol and featuring some special guests, an AI showdown, and a very large bowl of rum. Thanks for listening to Creative Distillation and Tiki Time with Jeff! Much aloha to all!

April 30, 202629 min

98: Jeff's Jet Pilot and Brad and Jeff's Tiki Analysis Part 2

CDEP98: JEFF’S JET PILOT AND BRAD AND JEFF’S TIKI ANALYSIS PART 2 Welcome back for Part 2 of Brad and Jeff’s Tiki analysis, a look at the major eras of tiki through the lens of Martin and Rebecca Cate’s book, Smuggler’s Cove. In part 1, over a Three Dots and a Dash stirred up by Jeff himself, our co-hosts dive into the mythic-but-true history of Don the Beachcomber, founder of the first tiki bar in 1933. This time around, over a Jeff-crafted Jet Pilot, we learn of Trader Vic’s emergence on the scene in 1937, and how he took Don the Beachcomber’s genius idea and turned it into a worldwide franchise. As they’ve done countless times over our 7 seasons of Creative Distillation, Jeff and Brad compare the differences in the two entrepreneurs’ approaches, and examine the pros and cons of each. They also look at the cultural factors contributing to the tiki craze (think: Elvis, the Beach Boys and the rise of surf music, and Disneyland’s Enchanted Tiki Room) and how tiki’s “authentic inauthenticity” begins to permeate American culture in general. As we’ve come to expect from the Creative Distillation guys, they stick the landing by tying all of this tiki madness into the broader cultural context and the role of storytelling in entrepreneurship. This is episode #98, and it seems Brad and Jeff are actually getting kind of serious about this. Maybe we actually will make a tiki pilgrimage to San Francisco for our 100th episode. Maybe this paper will actually be written. Stay tuned, tikiphiles! Aloha and cheers! —- You’ve been listening to Tiki Time with Jeff, a special, semi-occurring production of Creative Distillation. This episode was recorded on location at Jeff’s super secret Tiki Hideaway. Check the show notes for a Jet Pilot recipe, and Part 2 of Jeff and Brad’s tiki analysis, which includes a timeline of major events in tiki, emerging themes and next steps. Thanks for listening to Creative Distillation and Tiki Time with Jeff! Much aloha to all! ___ RECIPE: Jet Pilot Jet Pilot • 1/2 oz. lime juice • 1/2 oz. grapefruit juice • 1/2 oz. Homemade cinnamon syrup* • 1/2 oz. falernum • 1 oz. black blended rum (Coruba) • 3/4 oz. blended aged rum (Appleton 12) • 3/4 oz. black overproof rum (Planteray OFTD) • 1 dash herbstura (1/2 Angistura bitters, 1/2 Herbsaint) *The Art of Drink's recipe for homemade cinnamon syrup: https://youtu.be/8DjH3fP8Aus -- Part 2 of Brad and Jeff's Tiki Analysis: https://bit.ly/4usNvyH -- CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

April 16, 202637 min

97: Jeff's Three Dots and a Dash and Brad and Jeff's Tiki Analysis Part 1

We have a lot of fun in store as we round the final turn of Creative Distillation’s seventh season, and build toward our 100th episode. Martin and Rebecca Cate’s book, Smuggler’s Cove, has served as the roadmap and bible for this season’s journey into tiki, and in this episode, fortified by a Three Dots and a Dash expertly mixed by Jeff himself, our fearless explorers start charting the course and organizing the data they’ve been gathering for the Tiki paper Brad will allegedly be writing as a result of all this rigorous field research they’ve been conducting. From Jeff’s super secret Tiki Hideaway, our bold academics delve deeply into some Tiki Analysis, with Brad noting the complexity of the drinks, and Jeff pointing out that among bartenders, tiki is considered the highest form of mixology and the most difficult to master. Focusing on the history of Don Beach, aka Don the Beachcomber and the founder and proprietor of the first tiki bar, which opened in Hollywood in 1933, Brad and Jeff touch on the seminal moments in the history of tiki, and delineate the three periods that mark this subculture’s nearly 100-year evolution. It’s a fast-paced, entertaining and downright edifying episode of Tiki Time with Jeff. It’s also a great behind-the-scenes look at the process of researching, writing and, ultimately, publishing a paper. The weather is beautiful, wish you were here. Aloha and cheers! — You’ve been listening to Tiki Time with Jeff, a special, semi-occurring production of Creative Distillation. This episode was recorded on location at Jeff’s super secret Tiki Hideaway. Check the show notes for a Three Dots and a Dash recipe, and Part 1 of Jeff and Brad’s tiki analysis, which includes a timeline of major events in tiki, emerging themes and next steps. Thanks for listening to Creative Distillation and Tiki Time with Jeff! Much aloha to all! -- RECIPE: Three Dots and a Dash (taken from "Smuggler's Cove" by Martin & Rebecca Cate) • 1 1/2 ounces AOC Martinique rhum agricole vieux • 1/2 ounce blended aged rum • 1/4 ounce Velvet Falernum • 1/4 ounce allspice dram • 1/2 ounce honey syrup • 1/2 ounce lime juice, freshly squeezed • 1/2 ounce orange juice, freshly squeezed • 1 dash Angostura bitters • Garnish: 3 maraschino cherries, 1 pineapple frond -- Part 1 of Brad and Jeff's Tiki Analysis: https://bit.ly/3RjWR1b -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

March 26, 202633 min

96: Tiki Time with Jeff with Claudia Doblinger (TUM): Trader Vic’s Rum Punch and the Public/Private Role in Clean Tech Startups

This “hybrid” episode of Tiki Time with Jeff and Creative Distillation was recorded in April 2025, during the early days of Jeff’s tiki odyssey. Trader Vic’s in Munich — the oldest remaining Trader Vic’s location — is the setting for Jeff’s interview with Prof. Dr. Claudia Doblinger, Professor of Innovation and Technology Management at Technical University of Munich. Over a shared Rum Cup served in a tiki-style ceremonial bowl, Jeff regales Claudia, a tiki neophyte, with tales of tiki’s origins. We get her impressions of her first visit to a tiki bar, and the advice she would give a student considering opening one. Claudia talks about her academic journey, which includes strong ties to CU and, with Jeff, co-authoring a widely-respected and well-read paper on environmental and social entrepreneurship. The heart of the discussion though, involves three papers Claudia’s co-authored, each looking at different aspects of clean tech startups and the role of public collaboration in their innovation and survival. Taken together, she paints a clear picture of the importance of these public/private partnerships. Enjoy and cheers! — You’ve been listening to Tiki Time with Jeff, a special, semi-occurring production of Creative Distillation. This episode was recorded on location at Trader Vic’s in Munich, Germany - the oldest existing Trader Vic’s. Learn more at tradervics.com Learn more about Claudia Doblinger on her faculty page at Technical University of Munich. Check the show notes for a link to that as well as her papers discussed today. Claudia Doblinger's faculty page: https://www.professoren.tum.de/en/doblinger-claudia "The effects of corporate investment and public grants on climate and energy startup outcomes": https://portal.fis.tum.de/en/publications/the-effects-of-corporate-investment-and-public-grants-on-climate-/ "Governments as partners: The role of alliances in U.S. cleantech startup innovation": https://portal.fis.tum.de/en/publications/governments-as-partners-the-role-of-alliances-in-us-cleantech-sta/ "Author Correction: Federal energy R&D: Startups supported by ARPA-E were more innovative than others but an investment gap may remain (Nature Energy, (2020), 5, 10, (741-742), 10.1038/s41560-020-00691-8)": https://portal.fis.tum.de/en/publications/author-correction-federal-energy-rampd-startups-supported-by-arpa/ Thanks for listening to Creative Distillation and Tiki Time with Jeff! Much aloha to all! -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

March 12, 202643 min

95: The Pits and Stems Sal Banan and MJ Yang (CU) on AI Growing Pains

On this episode, Brad and Jeff continue their field research at Pits & Stems, a real live speakeasy located somewhere in Boulder. They’re still joined by host and proprietor Ethan Decker, who contribrutes his wry insights as he keeps the libations flowing, and MJ Yang, Assistant Professor of Strategy, Entrepreneurship and Operations at CU Boulder’s Leeds School of Business. The conversation shifts to MJ’s work, which focuses on scientific approaches to entrepreneurship, and is centered on AI and data-driven decision making. He asserts that AI (particularly LLM’s) should be treated as a “brain-damaged peer.” It’s not the most reliable data analyst; just the fastest, and MJ emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and problem framing. Brad points out that we’re experiencing the growing pains of a fledgling technology, but that no matter how important AI becomes, there will always be a job for creative problem solvers with grit. Jeff likens AI to the dotcom boom, in that the true believers (as he was back then), think only about how much the tech is going to improve our lives, without considering the negative externalities. Ethan calls that being “nerd-sighted.” Jeff goes on to say that, because AI has been on our minds for decades, it’s not the already-predicted worst-case scenarios that worry him. He’s more concerned about the dangers we haven’t thought of. You know: those unknown unknowns. He also puts in important (seriously) plugs for Coruba and Clareen rums, from Jamaica and Haiti, respectively. They’re key ingredients in one of Ethan’s creations featured herein: the Sal Banan, an original and fully AI-proof cocktail. Enjoy and cheers! — This episode of Creative Distillation was recorded at Pits and Stems in Boulder, Colorado. Unfortunately, that’s about all we can say about it. Learn more about MJ Yang on his faculty page at the Leeds School of Business website. https://www.colorado.edu/business/leeds-directory/faculty/mj-yang -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

February 26, 202646 min

94: MJ Yang (CU) and Ethan Decker, Founder, Applied Brand Science and Proprietor/Mixologist, Pits & Stems (Boulder)

This time, we return to perhaps our all-time favorite establishment, one that’s so special we can’t even tell you where it is because it's an actual, modern-day speakeasy located somewhere in the wilds of central Boulder. We first visited Ethan Decker and his wonderful establishment, Pits & Stems, on episode 63, way back in March 2024, and then again for episode 70. For our third time back, we’re joined by MJ Yang, CU Assistant Professor for Strategy, Entrepreneurship and Operations. The conversation starts with Ethan telling us about how he went from a Ph.D in Ecology to an expert in brand strategy, Brand Science Training, and the universal, immutable laws of branding. He offers several actionable insights applicable to businesses ranging from the smallest startups to the largest conglomerates. Ethan places a particular emphasis on “the myth of the passionate customer,” and reminds us that you don’t have to explain the brand proposition in your marketing; you just need to make it memorable, and noticeable - aka “sticky.” Brad talks about the importance of your first adopters being your biggest brand ambassadors. Our discussion also touches on the Olympics (how DOES one become a bobsledder, anyway?), and we get Ethan’s jaw-dropping tour of Pits & Stems. All that, plus some AI talk, and of course everyone's thoughts on Ethan’s divine concoctions. Enjoy and cheers! — This episode of Creative Distillation as recorded at Pits and Stems in Boulder, Colorado. Unfortunately, that’s about all we can say about it. We’ll be back at Pits and Stems next time for a deeper discussion into MJ Yang’s work. -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

February 12, 20261 hr 1 min

93: Tiki Time with Jeff w/guest Russell Thoede, Founder, Lei Low (Houston)

This Tiki Time with Jeff episode was recorded in April 2025 -- months before our Tiki Time with Jeff Primer was recorded (see episode 84). — On this voyage, Jeff speaks with Russell Thoede. In 2014, he and his wife, Elizabeth, co-founded Lei Low in Houston. Russell is not just the owner of what is now one of Jeff’s favorite tiki bars; he’s the maker of Jeff’s new favorite tiki drink, The Pearl Diver, and a walking, talking, living, breathing tiki wiki - a fount of tiki history and lore. In this captivating conversation, Jeff and Russell cover: - the Lei Low origin story, - the pride and passion that underlie every “real” tiki bar - Russell’s fervent belief that the craft cocktail movement actually began with tiki - how tiki, for all its exoticism, is a truly American creation - how, in just under 100 years, Don the Beachcomber’s fully concocted fantasy has become something very real, with its own sense of authenticity All of that, plus Russell’s very good advice to all entrepreneurs. Enjoy and cheers! —— This episode of Tiki Time with Jeff was recorded on location at Lei Low in Houston, TX. Follow them on Instagram and Facebook @leilowhtx Thanks for listening to Tiki Time with Jeff! Much aloha to all! -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

January 29, 202640 min

92: Ethan Poskanzer (CU) on Moral Flexibility & Isabel Schoebert (TUM) on Public-Private Collabs

For this last, lingering, “holidayesque” episode of the season, we return to Dry Land Distillers in Longmont, Colorado, where Brad and Jeff continue their discussion with CU’s Ethan Poskanzer and Isabel Schoeberl, a visiting doctoral candidate from the Technical University of Munich. As if the handcrafted libations shaken and stirred by Dry Land aren’t enough, Jeff smuggles in a bottle of his homemade “tiki nog” to keep the party going. Between sips of this surprisingly delectable tropical yuletide concoction, Jeff and Brad give their guests the floor to talk about their recent and/or current research. One of Ethan’s recently-published papers explores partisan moral flexibility in American politics. Are voters willing to accept less-than-factual assertions from their respective political sides, as long as they align with a deeply-held political, quote-unquote, “truth?” Betcha can’t guess the answer to that one! And then Isabel talks about two papers she’s working on — one qualitative the other quantitative — which focus on the impact of public-private partnerships on climate tech startups. Preliminary results suggest these collaborations lead to greater emission reduction potential — you just need to find the right collaborators (that’s the tricky part). And with that, the holiday season at Creative Distillation comes to a merciful and well overdue conclusion. Enjoy and cheers! — This episode of Creative Distillation was recorded at Dry Land Distillers in Longmont, Colorado. Follow them on Instagram @drylanddistillers, and get more info at drylanddistillers.com Learn more about Ethan Poskanzer on his faculty page at CU’s Leeds School of Business website: https://www.colorado.edu/business/leeds-directory/faculty/ethan-poskanzer Read Ethan Poskanzer’s paper, “When truth trumps facts: Studies on partisan moral flexibility in American politics,” in the July 2024 edition of the American Journal of Sociology. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/730763 Learn more about Isabel Schoeberl on her LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabelschoeberl/ -- Learn more about CU's Deming Center for Entrepreneurship: https://deming.colorado.edu Comments/criticism/suggestions/feedback? We'd love to hear it. Drop us a note at CDpodcast@colorado.edu. Thanks for listening. - An Analog Digital Arts Production for the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship Produced, recorded and edited by Joel Davis "Whiskey Before Breakfast" [Traditional] performed by Jeffrey York and Brad Werner. Recorded, mixed and mastered by George Figgs ___ CREATIVE DISTILLATION University of Colorado-Boulder professors Jeff York and Brad Werner distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. Jeff York | Associate Professor | Research Director jeffrey.york@colorado.edu Brad Werner | Instructor | Teaching Director walter.werner@colorado.edu Deming Center for Entrepreneurship | CU Leeds School of Business 303.492.9018 | deming@colorado.edu

January 15, 202647 min