What powers the brands and financial services we love to use? Commerce infrastructure, of course. The more consumers adopt digital products and demand fast, delightful experiences from their brands, the more this space grows. Commerce Conversations is a podcast from Commerce Ventures, where we dive into the most interesting emerging themes across retail tech and FinTech. Tune in for research deep dives, industry conversations, and intimate CEO interviews from our team.
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February 11, 202639 min
Why Banks Can't Afford to Wait on Tokenized Deposits, with Jon Briggs
Payments are commoditized; the value is in what happens before and after the transaction. This insight drove KeyBank's entire fintech partnership strategy.Speed in banking is relative. Nine months from handshake to product launch was a standout result -- built on 10 years of trial and error refining processes.Organizational structure matters. Having payments leadership report directly to the CEO gave KeyBank the empowerment and alignment needed to move quickly.Stablecoins vs. tokenized deposits are not interchangeable terms. Conflating them is "intellectually sloppy" -- they have different structures, risk profiles, and use cases.Near-term use cases for tokenized money: interbank and intrabank settlement, cross-border payments, and B2B transactions.Consumer trust data: 75% would try stablecoins from a bank; under 4% comfortable with unregulated providers.FIS-Circle partnership integrates stablecoin as another "lane in the payments highway."Banks need to act now on tokenized deposits -- not because the technology is ready to deploy, but because the learning curve (risk frameworks, regulatory education, internal alignment) takes years.Spend management is a real threat -- platforms like Ramp function as de facto digital banking experiences for SMBs, and the old rebate-based competition model no longer works.Capital One/Brex is likely the largest capability-centered acquisition a bank has ever made, by a multiple of at least 5x.Build vs. buy: Most banks should not try to own large-scale technology companies. Capability acquisitions and well-structured partnerships are the better path.Keys to a successful fintech partnership: team alignment, holistic go-to-market planning, aligned incentives, and thoughtful servicing.Jon's 2026 prediction: By year-end, tokenized deposits will move beyond just the largest banks (JP Morgan, Citi, BNY) and the technology will start becoming more broadly adopted across the industry.
January 28, 202639 min
Building Bank-Grade Infrastructure for the Next Generation of FinTechs, with Tom Bianco
In this episode of Commerce Conversations, Ysbrant Marcellus, partner at Commerce Ventures, interviews Tom Bianco, who leads Newline at Fifth Third Bank. The two discuss the evolution of embedded payments, the organizational challenges of building fintech infrastructure within traditional banks, and where the industry is heading next.Here are the key takeaways:Defining Embedded Payments: Tom clarifies the often-confusing terminology around "banking as a service," "embedded payments," and "embedded finance." He breaks it down into three segments: embedded payments (core payment capabilities placed at the point of need), embedded banking (adding deposits and fund storage), and embedded finance (adding credit or working capital). The industry's lack of consistent definitions has made it difficult for banks, fintechs, and regulators to have productive conversations about these different business models.The Embedded Banking Evolution: The embedded space has evolved significantly from simply providing access to card schemes like Visa and MasterCard to file-based software integrations to today's API-driven platforms. What makes this moment particularly interesting is the convergence of stablecoins, new legislation like the GENIUS Act, and the emergence of new payment corridors. Tom emphasizes that it's not just about technology—institutions also need to bring risk management and regulatory oversight capabilities that come from decades of experience.Building Different Culture Within Traditional Banks: One of Tom's key insights is around organizational design. Banks entering the embedded payments space face a branding paradox: how do you signal that you operate differently from traditional banking while maintaining institutional credibility? Tom describes building a team with a deliberately different culture—casual dress, different interaction styles—to show fintech clients this isn't a conventional banking relationship. The challenge is being different enough to win fintech clients without losing the trust signal that comes from being part of an established institution.The Technology Stack and M&A Strategy: Tom discusses the advantage of owning a proprietary core banking platform rather than licensing one—it creates optionality to modify and extend capabilities in ways other banks cannot. He also explains how Fifth Third's acquisition of Rise Money allowed them to repurpose a consumer banking-as-a-service platform for commercial payment use cases, creating a "one plus one equals three" effect by combining legacy infrastructure with modern technology.Organizational Design Choices: Tom reveals that about 95% of the Newline team is ring-fenced and dedicated exclusively to fintech clients, with cross-functional capabilities spanning go-to-market, engineering, product, and client success. However, he notes that some functions—like legal—don't make sense to fully separate because it limits career progression. Instead, they secure dedicated capacity within enterprise functions. He also describes a dual-track engineering model where dedicated engineers work alongside enterprise peers who help navigate internal governance and infrastructure.Prerequisites for Success: Two critical factors enabled Newline's success: executive conviction from the CEO level that embedded banking is where the market is heading, and strategic investment that extends beyond just the embedded unit itself to supporting functions like legal, compliance, and risk. Tom emphasizes that execution discipline—hitting committed dates and milestones consistently—gives the market confidence, which matters when fintech clients are presenting sponsor bank choices to their boards and investors.The Regulatory Clarity Paradox: Tom articulates a tension that many in the industry feel: while the U.S. financial services market is "dynamic by design, which is wonderful," institutions would benefit from short-term clarity (6-9 months out) on where regulations around stablecoins, industrial loan charters, and skinny payment accounts are heading. Without clarity, institutions must hedge across multiple scenarios rather than making focused bets.Stablecoins as Potential Disruptor: Tom is "optimistically bullish" on stablecoins as potential "leapfrog technology" that could challenge the handful of mega-banks that currently control global payments infrastructure through correspondent banking networks. He sees stablecoins as a way to level the playing field for multi-regional banks, allowing them to serve clients internationally without navigating the traditional oligopoly. The open question is whether the right regulatory, risk, and oversight infrastructure will evolve quickly enough to let stablecoin growth scale safely.The B2B AI Opportunity: While consumer agentic commerce (AI shopping agents) gets most of the headlines, Tom argues the real near-term opportunity is in B2B back-office automation. Fortune 500 companies employ thousands of people in accounts payable and receivable departments where AI could automate manual processes like invoice matching, payment approvals, and reconciliations. This represents "the shortest path to revenue" for AI-driven payment solutions, and institutions need to build the infrastructure that allows AI agents programmatic access to payment rails.The Future is Agentic, Real-Time, and Global: Tom anchors his product strategy on three beliefs about where the industry is heading: more agentic than not, more real-time than not, and more global than not. He argues that the next generation of high-growth fintechs will ask, "Can you help me operate globally in real time?" Rather than incrementally improving legacy infrastructure, institutions need to build toolkits that are truly "borderless, real-time, and frictionless."The Enterprise Payments Shift: Tom observes a fundamental shift in how banks approach enterprise payments. Historically, banks led with commercial lending and payments were a nice-to-have to capture full share of wallet. Now, payments technology is becoming the primary hook because companies are making bank decisions based on "what technology can you offer to automate my payment operations?" rather than lending capacity alone. The buyer of a payment solution is different from the buyer of a working capital solution, and banks are reorganizing around this reality.The North Star Metric: When asked what single metric matters most over a five-year horizon, Tom's answer is monthly processing volume in the trillions. This metric reflects scale, client trust, execution consistency, and whether the platform is becoming essential infrastructure. For a multi-regional bank to target trillion-dollar monthly processing volumes represents a fundamental shift from traditional regional banking scale to competing with global payment infrastructure providers.The conversation highlights both the immense opportunity and significant organizational challenges in building embedded banking infrastructure within traditional financial institutions, and offers a roadmap for how legacy players can compete in an increasingly fintech-driven world.
January 16, 202626 min
Fixing First-Party Fraud, with Shanthi Shanmugam
Setting the Stage: What Is First-Party Fraud?First-party fraud = authenticated, fully KYC’d customers who are who they say they are… but “not doing nice things” (abuse, friendly fraud, promo gaming).Shanthi ShanmugamAfter 2021–2022, banks and deposit-heavy institutions saw a double-digit increase in fraud losses tied to their owncustomers rather than external attackers.Shanthi ShanmugamTraditional fraud stacks focus on onboarding and transaction gating; disputes and first-party fraud sit in an operational backwater with little data science or investment.Shanthi ShanmugamShanthi’s Path to the Problem (Robinhood, Chime, and Disputes)Shanthi spent six years at Robinhood working on everything but fraud (crypto launches, redesigns, support) until GameStop-era volumes forced her into the world of disputes.Shanthi ShanmugamShe and her co-founder (ex-Chime) both realized a bad dispute experience was one of the top reasons a customer stopped using them as a primary financial relationship.Shanthi ShanmugamInstitutions spend heavily to acquire customers at the front door and quietly lose them out the back door when disputes feel slow, opaque, or unfair.Shanthi ShanmugamWhy Disputes Are So Broken TodayMany FIs outsource disputes to processors at $20–$40 per case; decisions take up to 90 days and often end with clawbacks that anger customers.Shanthi ShanmugamRegulation (e.g., 10 business days to provisionally credit) means banks often must take customers at face value even if follow-up questions go unanswered—driving poor loss performance.Shanthi ShanmugamDisputes teams historically sit in operations, not risk; they lack analytics, tooling, and esteem versus the “hyper sophisticated” fraud teams.Shanthi ShanmugamThe Human Side: TikTok Guides, Entitlement, and “Universal Refund Centers”Shanthi keeps a folder of TikToks, YouTube videos, and Reddit threads showing people teaching each other how to get “free money” via disputes.Shanthi ShanmugamPost-COVID economic stress plus a cultural shift (“it’s a big bank, they can afford it”) is normalizing first-party fraud in some segments.Shanthi ShanmugamAnecdotes like “Frank” (disputing a premium-economy seat, tepid Airbnb pool, and dry burgers after eating them) illustrate how banks are effectively being used as universal refund centers.Shanthi ShanmugamCasap’s Approach: Turn Disputes into a Trust & Retention EngineCasap starts at the front of the process: guiding frontline agents to ask expert-level questions so they can distinguish green-flag truth-tellers from red-flag abusers.Shanthi ShanmugamThis allows instant resolution for honest customers and higher scrutiny for likely fraudsters, balancing CX and fraud loss instead of forcing a tradeoff.Shanthi ShanmugamResults: clients see ~51% reduction in fraud losses in the first six months and can reduce or eliminate outsourced dispute processing—often “paying for Casap” in the first month.Shanthi ShanmugamOne long-time disputes employee described Casap as life-changing—reducing stress so much she literally added saved therapy sessions into Casap’s ROI math.Shanthi ShanmugamConsortium Data and a “Casap Score”Shanthi sees consortium data as essential: fraudsters share tactics, so institutions need a safe, anonymized way to share patterns.Shanthi ShanmugamVision: a Casap-style trustworthiness score, analogous to FICO, that helps merchants and issuers decide when to add friction (e.g., step-up verification) rather than fully deny service.Shanthi ShanmugamImportantly, the score should drive which actions to limit (e.g., easy refunds on certain MCCs) rather than blanket account denials.Shanthi ShanmugamAgentic Payments, Liability, and AI as EqualizerThey explore future “agentic payments” use cases (e.g., an AI wedding planner overspending on the wrong things) and how liability might be allocated between customer, bank, and AI provider.Shanthi ShanmugamShanthi is optimistic the industry can handle it with clear remits and parameters—potentially even “zero liability” offerings within defined agent budgets.Shanthi ShanmugamVivek frames AI as a cost-cutting and CX-boosting equalizer for non-top-3 banks that cannot outspend megabanks on acquisition but can win on experience and efficiency.Shanthi ShanmugamSales Momentum and Why FIs Are Moving NowCasap has broken typical “slow FI sales” rules because it hits two urgent priorities: better CX for primary relationships and meaningful expense and fraud-loss reduction.Shanthi ShanmugamBanks, now laser-focused on PE multiples and cost ratios, are actively looking for software that removes expense and improves loss performance without massive core-system overhauls.
December 18, 202519 min
What’s Coming in 2026: The Commerce Ventures Predictions Episode
2026 Predictions: Agentic Commerce & Retailer ResponseAgentic commerce gets real: Transaction volumes from AI agents move from a trickle to “meaningful,” as consumers progress from researching via AI to completing purchases on platforms like ChatGPT connected to Shopify, Etsy, and large retailers.Retailers limit scraping: Many top U.S. retailers will restrict broad, agentic scraping of their sites and instead offer structured feeds to AI platforms, trying to regain leverage and shape how their products are surfaced.2026 Predictions: Payments, Stablecoins, and B2B AutomationAgentic payments start in B2B: The first real impact of agentic payments will be in B2B flows—automating high-friction workflows, recurring payments, and reconciliation rather than consumer card swipes.Stablecoins become native to fintech & treasury stacks: Stablecoin-based payments get deeply integrated into fintech and treasury applications, moving from “manual” usage to embedded flows as demand becomes more institutional and mainstream.Big banks join the stablecoin party: A key open question—and focus of the prediction—is how much large banks and traditional institutions begin to integrate stablecoins for their commercial and corporate clients.2026 Predictions: Banking, Wealth & Tokenized AssetsTokenized securities go “hot”: Expect a wave of tokenized issuance across public equities, ETFs, private credit, and alternatives, plus a lot of startup funding chasing tokenization infrastructure.Alternatives become more accessible: Access to alternatives—pre-IPO equity, private credit, real estate, private funds—will expand, driven in part by concerns over AI-concentrated public markets and the need for diversification, even for smaller accredited investors.2026 Predictions: AI “Hires” Inside Banks & InsurersBanks “hire” AI agents: Smaller financial institutions will effectively put AI agents on payroll, using them to augment underwriting, regulatory, and compliance workflows. Crucially, the budgets will often come from headcount/payroll rather than traditional IT spend.AI catalyzes core modernization in insurance: Carriers will use specialized AI vendors to re-platform historically untouchable core functions (underwriting, policy servicing, claims intake). The team expects a meaningful share of top carriers to engage in real replatforming with AI-native vendors.Specialized over generic: The winning AI platforms will be highly specialized to banking and insurance workflows—not generic AI or horizontal SaaS—leading to very “sticky” agent relationships.2026 Predictions: Next-Gen ERP & Capital MarketsNext-gen ERPs threaten NetSuite: For startups, new ERP players will become the default over legacy options. Faster implementations, better AI tooling, and higher success rates will make “Have you evaluated any of the next-gen ERPs?” a standard board question.Early enterprise conversions: Some non-startup enterprises will begin switching from legacy ERPs, as ERP is often the last truly legacy piece in otherwise modern stacks.IPOs and exits reopen: The partnership expects IPO and M&A markets to remain open and to accelerate—potentially surpassing the pre-pandemic five-year IPO high (~$50B). A large backlog of IPO candidates and pent-up M&A demand sets the stage for a busy 2026.
December 9, 202522 min
The New Era of Embedded Payments, with Brandon Lloyd
In this episode, Dan and Brandon cover:Brandon’s founder journey: from building software in college to multiple exits and now leading ForwardThe pain points of legacy acquiring and why funds-held and outdated tech nearly cost him a businessThe three 20-year “eras” of payments and why embedded software is just getting startedWhy most vertical SaaS companies vastly under-monetize payments, and how to move from ~20% attach to 50–70%How Forward pairs modern infrastructure with hands-on program design instead of a DIY “here are the APIs” approachForward’s growth (800%+ this year) and what makes their integration experience so fast for CTOsA nuanced take on AI: where it’s already transforming risk, operations, and interchange optimizationWhy Brandon is skeptical that true agentic commerce (autonomous agents completing purchases) will reach scale soonThe vision for continuous, 365-day settlement without leaning on expensive credit or warehouse linesLeadership, family, and sports: what Brandon learned from his Military-officer dad, college basketball, and parenting four kidsReal-world founder advice on surviving outages, hard days, and the long grind of company building
October 30, 202537 min
Tokenized Deposits: The Next Payments Rail, with Tom Brown
This week on Commerce Conversations, Dan is joined by Tom Brown for a candid, operator-level walkthrough of the next big change in payments: tokenized deposits and controllable payment intangibles (CPIs). Instead of shuttling funds across intermediaries, banks can keep value parked and transfer the claim—a model that looks a lot more like immobilized securities than traditional money movement.We dig into what that means for wires, RTP, and bank UX; why real-time ledgering matters more than real-time messaging; and where clearing houses still fit. Tom lays out a pragmatic adoption path: start with one internal flow, define standards before chasing consortia, and dogfood a wallet/registry that tracks ownership across accounts. We also cover risk, compliance, and how startups can serve as the bridge layer between cores and digital rails.If you run payments, treasury, or product at a bank or fintech, this episode is your field guide—complete with quick wins, common pitfalls, and how to know you’re actually ready to ship.
June 5, 202543 min
Stablecoins and the Legal Tipping Point, with Lindsey Haswell and Mitzi Chang
Stablecoins are moving from the margins of crypto speculation to the center of real-world commerce—and regulation is finally catching up.In this episode of Commerce Conversations, Dan Rosen is joined by two experts on the frontlines of fintech law: Lindsey Haswell, Chief Legal Officer at MoonPay and board member for BlackRock’s crypto ETFs, and Mitzi Chang, co-chair of the blockchain and fintech practices at Goodwin Procter.Together, they break down:Why 2024’s regulatory clarity marks a turning point for stablecoinsHow legislation like the Genius Act could unlock a wave of adoption—and M&AWhat makes USDC, USDT, and PYUSD different under the hoodWhy the merchant side (not consumers) may drive the next phase of stablecoin useHow global markets (Europe, LATAM, APAC) are approaching stablecoin legislationThe legal questions surrounding yield-bearing tokensAnd what happens when crypto infrastructure meets generative AIWhether you’re a founder, fintech exec, lawyer, or investor—this episode offers a clear-eyed look at where stablecoins are headed and what it means for the broader financial stack.
May 7, 202549 min
Why Stablecoins Are the Infrastructure of the Future, with Marco Mahrus
In this episode of the Commerce podcast, Ys chats with longtime friend and payments operator Marco Mahrus—now Head of Revenue at Bridge—about how stablecoins are reshaping the future of global payments.Marco takes us behind the scenes of building payments products at Uber and Brex, including the complexities of launching a co-branded card and navigating global regulatory environments. He explains how Bridge, now part of Stripe, enables companies to send and receive value on-chain through stablecoins—without requiring a crypto-native customer experience.They dive into why adoption is accelerating now, where stablecoins have already seen traction in the Global South, and why the real breakthrough is happening behind the scenes in treasury management, cross-border disbursements, and on-chain loyalty. Whether you’re a fintech founder or enterprise operator, Marco’s clear-eyed view of the evolving payments stack offers a blueprint for what’s coming next.
April 23, 202538 min
Why Stablecoins Are the Future of Global Payments, with Kirill Gertman
In this podcast, Kirill Gurtman, Co-Founder of Conduit, shares his journey from growing up in Ukraine to building one of the leading infrastructure providers for stablecoin-powered cross-border payments. After living in multiple countries and adapting to new cultures, Kirill developed a sense of resilience and adaptability—traits that would later prove essential in his entrepreneurial journey.Kirill recounts his early curiosity around crypto, sparked by receiving his first Bitcoin over a decade ago (and subsequently losing it), and how that experience led him to roles at crypto startups like Bread Wallet. After seeing firsthand the limitations of traditional financial infrastructure during a stint in banking, he became convinced that blockchain could offer a better alternative.The episode dives into the founding story of Conduit, which started as a DeFi middleware layer and later pivoted to focus on solving a major pain point: making stablecoins useful in real-world, cross-border payments. Kirill reflects on the hard lessons learned through product pivots, layoffs, and the search for product-market fit—highlighting how intellectual honesty and staying lean helped the team survive.Kirill also explores trends in the stablecoin ecosystem, from the role of traditional financial institutions to Circle’s recent moves and the broader regulatory landscape. He offers thoughtful predictions on how banks, payment processors, and central banks might interact with stablecoin rails in the years ahead.The conversation closes with Kirill’s reflections on leadership, the underrated value of focus, and why founders need to be brutally honest with themselves—especially when things seem like they’re working, but aren’t.
December 13, 202426 min
Our Big Predictions for 2025
In this episode of Commerce Conversations, the Commerce Ventures partners outline their key predictions for 2025, diving into FinTech, Retail Tech, and broader industry trends. They begin by examining stablecoins, predicting their adoption for cross-border payments due to increased liquidity, expanded use cases, and favorable regulatory environments. Moving to the banking sector, they foresee significant M&A activity driven by regulatory changes, capital pressures, and competition, potentially creating larger super-regional institutions.The partners discuss anticipated regulatory shifts under new leadership, particularly in FinTech, noting potential impacts on banking innovation and sponsor-banking dynamics. They also predict a wave of successful FinTech IPOs, led by companies with strong revenue growth, and forecast 2025 as a banner year for venture funding, driven by increased liquidity and optimism in public markets.In technology, AI takes center stage, with predictions about its disruptive impact on search engines and its potential to transform industries like insurance. They foresee AI-driven tools reducing integration costs for insurance carriers, accelerating innovation and venture interest in the sector. Additionally, they predict advancements in digital wallets and biometric payments, enabling consumers to leave physical wallets behind.Closing with reflections on the confluence of regulatory, technological, and market shifts, the episode emphasizes the transformative potential of 2025. The team encourages listeners to engage with Commerce Ventures on their platforms for ongoing insights.
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