Careers and the Business of Law

Hosted by David Cowen

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155

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Oct 2026

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About the show

Welcome to Careers in The Business of Law with David Cowen, the podcast series designed to elevate and accelerate the careers of legal professionals. David aims to provide insightful and inspiring career stories from industry insiders, law firm leaders, corporate law department executives, and legal technology business leaders. This podcast will provide you with an inside look into the career journeys of some of the most successful and influential leaders in the legal field. You will gain actionable insights into their experiences, challenges, and triumphs through these discussions. Recognizing that the legal profession is constantly changing, David wants to ensure that you have the knowledge and tools necessary to navigate this evolving landscape. David's guests will provide insights on topics such as emerging technologies, legal operations, and leadership strategies, which will help you accelerate your career growth and success. David's goal is to create and inspire a community of legal professionals who are dedicated to learning, growing, and advancing their careers. Whether you are a law student, young professional, or seasoned veteran, this podcast series is for you. Join David and his guests as they explore the stories and insights that shape the legal profession, and help you take your career to the next level. If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe on Spotify, Apple iTunes, or wherever you get your podcast, and remember "Never Eat Alone".

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October 19, 202624 min

The New Legal AI Career Ladder: Who Gets Hired, Who Gets to Lead?

Careers in the Business of Law | Hosted by David Cowen The Chief Information Officer is evolving. New AI leadership roles are emerging. And law firms are looking beyond traditional legal technology backgrounds to find their next generation of talent. David Cowen sits down with Chad Ergun , Chief AI and Technology Officer at Womble Bond Dickinson , to explore how AI is reshaping leadership, hiring, and innovation inside law firms. Chad shares why curiosity matters more than technical credentials alone, how his firm is bringing lawyers and AI specialists together, and what it takes to scale innovation beyond a small group of early adopters. In This Episode Why the CIO role is evolving into Chief AI and Technology Officer How law firms are shifting from infrastructure management to AI strategy Why curiosity and critical thinking drive Chad's hiring decisions Where law firms are finding talent outside the legal industry The emerging demand for Legal AI Engineers and Practice Intelligence professionals How 160+ attorneys are helping develop AI solutions Why AI adoption starts with champions, not mandates Chapters 00:10 | Meet the Chief AI and Technology Officer 01:50 | From CIO to AI Leadership 04:00 | Why Data Is the Next Big Challenge 07:13 | The Talent Layer Behind AI Transformation 09:11 | Hiring Beyond the Legal Industry 10:19 | Why Curiosity Matters More Than Credentials 13:45 | Change Isn't the Problem. Uncertainty Is. 17:20 | The New Legal AI Jobs Being Created 18:06 | Building an AI Champions Network 19:23 | Scaling AI Adoption Across the Firm The Big Idea The next generation of legal AI leaders won't be defined by their job titles. They'll be defined by their curiosity, adaptability, and ability to turn technology into real solutions. As AI changes how legal work gets done, firms need people who can connect legal expertise, data, technology, and business strategy. And those people may come from places the legal profession hasn't traditionally looked. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

October 12, 202633 min

What If Your GC Could Predict Litigation Costs Before the Case Begins?

Legal Data Intelligence Podcast | Hosted by David Cowen What if your General Counsel could assess litigation costs, evaluate outside counsel performance, and understand potential risks before a dispute escalates? The data may already exist. The challenge is knowing how to use it. David Cowen sits down with Matt Hamilton of Morgan Lewis and Melina Efstathiou of Grant Thornton to explore how Legal Data Intelligence (LDI), Early Data Strategy, and AI are changing litigation decisions. In This Episode Why Early Data Strategy is replacing reactive approaches How AI can unlock insights hidden in legal data Why better data matters more than better technology How historical litigation data can inform costs and risks Why asking the right questions is becoming a critical legal skill The new career opportunities emerging around LDI Chapters 00:08 | What If Your GC Had the Answers Before Litigation? 02:36 | From Early Case Assessment to Early Data Strategy 04:01 | AI's Biggest Problem: Garbage In, Garbage Out 08:06 | How AI Changes Legal Data Analysis 10:45 | Why Asking Better Questions Matters 17:06 | What Your Litigation Data Can Reveal 22:05 | Who Owns the Future of Legal Data? 26:19 | New Careers in Legal Data Intelligence 31:14 | Join the LDI Movement The Big Idea The future of legal isn't about having more data. It's about making better decisions with the data you already have. Discover how Legal Data Intelligence is changing the way legal teams think, work, and lead. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 9, 202643 min

The Most Powerful Three-Letter Word: Ask

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno What can lawyers learn from Broadway? More than you might think. Live from Nashville, David Cowen sits down with Laura Bell Bundy , the actress, singer, songwriter, and producer who originated Elle Woods in Legally Blonde on Broadway, for a conversation about curiosity, grit, reinvention, self-advocacy, and the relationships that shape a career. Laura shares the unlikely path that took her from Kentucky to Broadway, how she learned to turn imitation into originality, why perceived failures can open unexpected doors, and the lesson from her father that has stayed with her throughout her career: Ask. Because if you don't ask, you'll never know what might have been. In this episode: How childhood imitation became a foundation for creativity What it took to make Elle Woods her own Why optimism and confidence are more powerful than they look How curiosity and grit work together The night Laura finished Legally Blonde with a fractured elbow Why the show must sometimes go on How mentors and sponsors can see possibilities in us before we see them ourselves Why big goals become achievable when broken into smaller steps What perceived failure can teach us about opportunity Why relationships matter more than the résumé How knowing your value changes the way you negotiate Why "ask" may be the most powerful three-letter word The importance of advocating for yourself Why community matters when careers become difficult What Broadway can teach leaders about teamwork and connection Chapters 00:10 | Back in Nashville 01:06 | A World Changing Fast 02:02 | Growing Up Around Music 04:20 | From Imitation to Originality 06:31 | Making Elle Woods Her Own 08:12 | Finding the Grit 09:28 | What Elle Woods' Transformation Really Means 09:59 | The Broadway Experience That Changed Everything 13:48 | Laura's First Big Break 14:20 | Why Everyone Needs a Sponsor 15:29 | Holding a Vision for Someone Else 17:09 | Redefining Success Through Goals 18:36 | Curiosity + Grit = From Now to Next 19:30 | Breaking Her Arm During Legally Blonde 20:52 | The Show Must Go On 22:36 | Following Another Dream 25:23 | Giving Yourself Permission to Try 26:13 | What Perceived Failure Can Teach You 26:58 | Careers Are Really About Relationships 28:10 | When the Vision Became Reality 32:21 | Know Your Value 33:24 | The Most Powerful Three-Letter Word: Ask 42:07 | Why Community Keeps Us Standing 43:27 | From Now to Next The Big Idea Ask. Ask for the opportunity. Ask for the promotion. Ask the question you're afraid might get a no. Laura's career is filled with moments where curiosity opened one door, grit carried her through another, and someone was willing to see potential before the outcome was obvious. But there's another lesson underneath all of it. You have to advocate for yourself. Knowing your value matters. Having people who believe in you matters. Being willing to fail matters. And so does having the courage to ask. Because a career isn't simply a collection of jobs. It's a collection of relationships, lessons, risks, failures, reinventions and people who catch you when you fall. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 8, 202615 min

Stop Trying to Save Everybody. Double Down on Your Winners.

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno Legal organizations are investing heavily in AI. But buying the technology is the easy part. Getting people to actually change how they work is harder. Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Jeffrey Roach , Managing Director at Harbor , to explore why the next phase of Legal AI isn't simply about technology. It's about behavior, talent, champions and organizational change. Jeffrey argues that resistance isn't necessarily the problem. It's a signal. And instead of spending disproportionate energy trying to move the most resistant people, leaders may create more momentum by investing in the achievers, strivers and seekers already leaning into change. In this episode: Why enablement is becoming more important as AI investment grows Why adoption is a behavioral challenge, not simply a technology problem What "perpetual change" means for legal organizations Why lawyer skepticism can actually be valuable How resistance can reveal where value hasn't been communicated clearly Why leaders should invest more heavily in their top performers The importance of champions in driving AI adoption Why authority doesn't always have to come from the person leading the transformation How gatekeeping can hold talented people back Why organizations need to give high performers more agency How new talent from outside legal will reshape the profession Why adaptability, curiosity, resourcefulness and grit can be taught What organizational enablement looks like beyond individual AI training Why it's okay to accept that you won't convert everyone Chapters 00:10 | Why Enablement Matters More Than Ever 00:43 | Adoption Is a Behavioral Problem 01:05 | Welcome to Perpetual Change 01:35 | Everything, Everywhere, All at Once 01:46 | Why Lawyers Resist Change 02:19 | Stop Treating Resistance as the Problem 02:41 | Achievers, Strivers, Seekers and Laggards 03:09 | How Do You Keep Your Top 20%? 03:22 | Making Your Best People Feel Seen 05:05 | Stop Lifting the Bottom. Raise the Top. 05:29 | Why Champions Drive Adoption 06:28 | Creating Agency Inside Legal Organizations 06:48 | How Gatekeeping Holds Talent Back 07:40 | Set Talented People Free 08:41 | Why Progress Requires Bravery 09:18 | New Talent Is Entering the Business of Law 09:32 | Forward Deployed Engineers and Legal AI Architects 10:31 | Curiosity, Adaptability, Resourcefulness and Grit 12:45 | From Individual to Organizational Enablement 13:50 | Why You Can't Save Everybody 14:12 | Double Down on Your Winners The Big Idea "Double down on your winners." The AI adoption challenge may not be about getting every person in an organization to move at the same speed. Some people are already curious. They're experimenting. They're resourceful. They're asking questions and pushing beyond their comfort zones. Those people can become your champions. Invest in them. Give them visibility. Give them authority. Give them room to make mistakes and learn. Because trying to pull the bottom 20% forward can consume enormous energy, while the people most capable of creating momentum may leave if they don't feel seen, challenged and supported. AI transformation isn't only about deploying better technology. It's about identifying the people ready to lead the change and helping them soar. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 8, 202618 min

AI Should Give You More Capacity to Be Human

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno What if the real value of AI isn't how much more work you can do, but what you can do with the time it gives back? Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Rachel Shields-Williams , Director of AI and Knowledge Management at Bass, Berry & Sims , to explore how AI is changing not only the work of lawyers, but the way they learn, lead and develop. For Rachel, AI should help people show up at the highest and best use of themselves. That means more capacity for judgment, creativity, curiosity and the human moments that matter. But as AI takes on more of the work, the skills lawyers need are changing too. In this episode: Why AI should give us more capacity to create, explore and be human How AI can reduce anxiety, not just save time Why client value should drive innovation, knowledge and data strategy How a nine-week Summer AI Lab helped future lawyers learn AI through real problems Why AI training should teach workflows, not just tools How junior lawyers can learn technology while senior lawyers continue teaching judgment Why human intervention still matters in agentic workflows The emerging roles appearing around Legal AI Why the traditional lawyer training model needs to evolve Why coaching, feedback and difficult conversations will become more important How peer networks can help emerging leaders navigate new responsibilities Why successful transformation begins with understanding culture and relationships Chapters 00:10 | Using AI Without Letting AI Use You 01:03 | AI Should Help Us Live Better, Not Just Work More 01:46 | The Humanity Behind the Technology 02:03 | Why Curiosity Matters More Than Ever 02:35 | How AI Can Give You Time and Reduce Anxiety 04:45 | Stepping Into a New AI and Knowledge Leadership Role 05:06 | Putting the Client at the Center of Innovation 05:49 | Inside the Nine-Week Summer AI Lab 06:57 | Reverse Mentorship With AI in the Middle 07:25 | Teaching Workflow, Not Just How to Use the Tool 08:14 | How Future Lawyers Are Already Thinking in Agents 08:41 | Keeping the Human in the Loop 09:39 | The New Roles Emerging Around Legal AI 10:07 | Why the Lawyer Training Model Needs to Change 11:14 | From Managing Junior Lawyers to Coaching AI-Enabled Teams 12:35 | How to Prepare for Difficult Conversations 13:54 | Build Your Own Panel of Trusted Advisors 14:48 | Leading Change Through Relationships and Culture 16:28 | What the ILTACON Floor Says About What's Coming Next 17:04 | Why Legal AI Investment Means Demand for New Talent The Big Idea AI isn't just giving lawyers more capacity to work. It can give them more capacity to be human. As technology takes on more tasks, the differentiators shift toward curiosity, judgment, creativity, communication and leadership. That changes how the next generation of lawyers needs to be trained. Junior lawyers will increasingly learn the law while working with AI. More experienced lawyers will need to become better coaches, giving feedback, guiding judgment and helping people understand when human intervention matters. The technology may be accelerating. But the skills required to lead through that acceleration are deeply human. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 8, 202615 min

There Is No Map for What Comes Next. Start With the Next Question.

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno Legal is changing fast, and everyone wants answers. But what if the real advantage isn't having the answer? What if it's knowing how to ask the next question? Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Priti Saraswat , Director of Knowledge and Innovation at Levenfeld Pearlstein , whose career has taken her across the legal technology ecosystem, from technology provider and solutions engineering to consulting, legal process engineering and law firm innovation. That 360-degree perspective has given her a different view of the AI transformation. Instead of trying to solve everything at once, Priti argues for agility, small adjustments and learning from industries that have already navigated their own disruption. In this episode: Why seeing legal from multiple sides changes how you approach AI Why the value of AI depends on the seat you're sitting in Why we don't need all the answers yet How small adjustments can create meaningful transformation Why agility is becoming essential for legal careers What legal can learn from healthcare, finance, agriculture and other industries Why we don't need to reinvent the wheel every time How curiosity outside your profession can make you better inside it Why vision matters when the path ahead isn't clear How to turn a vision into action Why personal and professional goals both deserve attention Chapters 00:10 | A 360-Degree Career Across the LegalTech Ecosystem 01:00 | Seeing the Compounding Effect of AI 01:49 | Why AI Value Depends on Where You Sit 02:20 | We Don't Know What We Don't Know Yet 02:49 | Stop Waiting for All the Answers 03:43 | What Previous Legal Transformations Can Teach Us 04:19 | Small Adjustments Beat Trying to Change Everything 04:55 | Why Agility Is Becoming a Career Essential 05:57 | Why Legal Needs More Outside Perspectives 06:32 | What Legal Can Learn From Other Industries 07:38 | What Agriculture Can Teach Us About AI 09:11 | Visioning What Comes Next 11:44 | Start With the Problem You Actually Want to Solve 12:28 | Turning a Vision Board Into Action 13:52 | Why You Need Professional and Personal Visions 14:44 | What Do You Want to Accomplish Next? The Big Idea "All we've figured out is to ask the next question." We are still early. The roles are changing. The technology is changing. The way lawyers practice is changing. And the answers we have today may not be the answers we need tomorrow. Priti's approach is simpler: stay agile, look beyond the boundaries of legal, make small adjustments and keep moving. Because when there is no established map, progress doesn't require knowing the entire route. It requires knowing your next question and taking action on what you learn. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 4, 202615 min

The New Legal AI Career Path Is Being Built Right Now

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno What if the next path for a lawyer isn't the traditional path to partnership? Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Megan McMillin , Legal Innovation Partner at Harvey , to explore one of the most important shifts happening in legal: the emergence of an entirely new career ladder around Legal AI. From Forward Deployed Legal Engineers to Legal Innovation Partners, firms and technology companies are building roles that combine legal expertise, workflow knowledge, technology and client value. The challenge? There is no established playbook yet. In this episode: Why Forward Deployed Legal Engineers are becoming an important new role Why firms need internal experts working alongside vendor engineers The power of combining legal workflow expertise with technical expertise Why successful AI implementation requires understanding the "why," not just the tool What it really means to embed AI talent inside a law firm How Forward Deployed Engineers could progress from building to managing, leading and setting strategy Why Legal AI could create a second career path for lawyers Why firms need to stop treating these roles as "off track" What law schools and firms need to rethink about developing future lawyers Why intellectual curiosity may be one of lawyers' greatest advantages in the AI era Chapters 00:10 | From Cleary to Legal Innovation Partner at Harvey 01:23 | The Rise of the Forward Deployed Legal Engineer 02:10 | Why Firms Need Their Own Embedded AI Expertise 03:18 | Pairing Vendor Engineers With Firm Experts 03:46 | Understanding the Tool, the Workflow and the Why 04:17 | Moving From AI Use Cases to Client Value 05:15 | Why Legal AI Isn't "Choose Your Own Journey" 06:04 | What Embedded AI Talent Really Means 07:09 | Building With the Customer, Not Just for Them 08:21 | The Five-Year Career Path for Forward Deployed Engineers 09:20 | Could Legal AI Become a Second Path to Partnership? 10:16 | Why New Legal AI Roles Command New Compensation 10:46 | There Is No Clear Career Path Yet 11:51 | Stop Trying to Fit New Roles Into Old Structures 12:37 | What Law Schools Need to Rethink 13:41 | The Lawyer's Superpower in the AI Era 14:36 | Why Intellectual Curiosity Matters More Than Ever The Career Signal There is no clear path. It's white space. It's a green field. That's exactly what makes this moment so important. The Legal AI career ladder is being built in real time. You can enter as a builder. Then manage. Then lead. Then set strategy and vision. For lawyers who don't see themselves following the traditional route to partnership, these roles may represent something much bigger than an alternative career. They may be the beginning of an entirely new path. And as Megan puts it, when lawyers and engineers bring their respective expertise together: "The best is yet to come. And we're building it together." Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 3, 202616 min

The AI Dividend: What Will You Do With the Time AI Gives Back?

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno AI promises to make lawyers faster and more productive. But what happens when we use every hour it saves to simply do more? Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Sarah Hirebet , Director of Knowledge and Innovation at Stradley Ronon , for a conversation about the human side of AI adoption. Sarah explores why this technology shift is different from the ones legal has navigated before. AI can sound like us, write like us and engage with the same language lawyers use every day. But it does not bring lived experience or human judgment to the conversation. That creates a bigger challenge for legal leaders: how do we embrace the productivity AI creates without losing judgment, creativity, voice and the space to actually think? In this episode: Why this technology shift is fundamentally different from previous legal transformations Why AI fluency can create a false sense of confidence The risk of turning AI productivity into human exhaustion What the "AI dividend" means for lawyers and legal teams Why reclaimed time should not automatically become more work How legal teams can redesign systems instead of simply accelerating existing ones Why Sarah is teaching "humanity in the loop" How poetry, creativity and lived experience can help lawyers preserve their voice How Stradley Labs is approaching AI education and adoption Why AI should remain a methodology, not necessarily a job function What lawyers should think carefully about before delegating communication to AI Chapters 00:10 | Meeting the Moment of Change in Legal 01:42 | Why This Technology Shift Is Different 03:07 | AI Sounds Like Us, But It Doesn't Have Judgment 03:43 | When AI Superpowers Become Exhausting 05:12 | What AI Means for Talent, Culture and Work 05:44 | The AI Dividend: What Do You Do With the Time? 06:06 | From Doing the Work to Redesigning the System 06:48 | Humanity in the Loop 07:18 | How Lawyers Preserve Their Voice in an AI World 08:24 | Rest, Sabbaticals and Making Space for Creativity 10:29 | Why Knowledge Workers Need to Build Tangible Things 11:00 | Inside the Stradley Labs AI Training Program 12:25 | The New Titles Emerging Around AI 13:26 | Should AI Actually Be in Your Job Title? 14:51 | When Communication Should Stay Human 15:56 | What AI Still Can't Replicate The Big Idea The AI dividend isn't automatically more work. If AI gives us time back, leaders have a choice about where that time goes. It can become more output, more emails and more tasks. Or it can create space to redesign systems, develop new ideas, learn, reflect, build relationships and preserve the distinctly human capabilities that technology cannot replicate. Sarah calls this "humanity in the loop." The more fluent AI becomes, the more important it may be for lawyers to protect their own voice, judgment and lived experience. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 3, 202616 min

What If AI Makes the Legal Market Bigger, Not Smaller?

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno Legal technology used to move on annual planning cycles. Now, even 90 days can feel too slow . Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Damien Riehl , Solutions Champion at Clio , to unpack what happens when the pace of AI development becomes exponential and the traditional boundaries between law, LegalTech and frontier AI begin to disappear. Their conversation moves from the influx of capital and outside talent into legal to the arrival of foundation model companies as new competitors. But the bigger question is what all of this means for lawyers. Could AI reduce the cost of legal work so dramatically that instead of shrinking the market, it unlocks entirely new demand? In this episode: Why legal technology may have moved beyond the 90-day change cycle Where Damien looks to understand what is coming next in AI Why new talent and capital are flooding into legal What happens when frontier AI companies move directly into LegalTech Why data may become the defining advantage for legal technology companies What curiosity, adaptability, resourcefulness and grit mean in an exponential market Why multi-agent AI represents another major shift in how work gets done How AI could dramatically expand access to legal services Why lawyers could become busier because of AI, not in spite of it Chapters 00:10 | Why LegalTech Is on an Exponential Curve 01:18 | From 12-Month Planning to 90-Day Change Cycles 01:42 | Where to Look to Understand What AI Will Do Next 02:39 | The New Talent Entering the Legal Industry 03:21 | Why Capital Is Flooding Into LegalTech 04:27 | When Frontier AI Companies Enter Legal 05:46 | Disruption Disrupting Disruption 06:28 | What Blockbuster, Nokia and Kodak Can Teach Legal 07:16 | The New Build vs. Buy Question 08:10 | You Don't Have to Keep Up With Everything 09:07 | Curiosity, Adaptability, Resourcefulness and Grit 10:19 | What Was Impossible Three Months Ago Is Possible Today 10:35 | The Shift From AI Answers to AI Agents 11:50 | What Happens to Human Capital in an AI Economy? 12:59 | Could AI Actually Increase Demand for Lawyers? 13:38 | The Opportunity to Serve Unmet Legal Needs The Big Idea What if AI doesn't make the legal market smaller? What if it makes the pie dramatically bigger? If AI lowers the cost of legal services, work that was previously too expensive to justify may suddenly become accessible. That creates a very different future for the profession. Instead of lawyers becoming less necessary because of AI, Damien sees the possibility that lawyers become busier than ever because of AI , while serving legal needs that historically went unmet. The challenge isn't knowing everything that's changing. It's staying curious enough to see what just became possible. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!

September 3, 202615 min

The New Legal AI Career Ladder: Role, Responsibility, Authority and Resources

Live from ILTACON | Sponsored by Steno Legal AI isn't just creating new technology. It's creating new roles, new responsibilities and entirely new career paths . Live from ILTACON, David Cowen sits down with Leigh Zeiser , Director of AI and Automation at Troutman , to trace her journey from becoming one of the first Legal Process Engineers in the U.S. in 2018 to leading AI and automation today. Their conversation goes beyond titles. What happens when responsibility grows faster than authority and resources? How do you earn the trust to lead? And what separates the people waiting for the next opportunity from those creating it? Lee also shares what Troutman is learning as Generative AI adoption grows, why deterministic layers matter in legal, and how the firm's agentic AI platform, Athena, is evolving. In this episode: How new Legal AI roles are emerging in real time Why a title without authority and resources isn't enough What happens when AI adoption increases demand instead of reducing it Why career growth requires speaking up, not waiting to be asked How curiosity, accountability, trust and resourcefulness create opportunity Why "everybody owns AI" at Troutman Why deterministic AI may be critical to legal adoption How agentic AI is changing the way lawyers access tools and knowledge Why AI cost, token usage and responsible adoption are becoming leadership issues Chapters 00:10 | From Legal Process Engineer to Director of AI and Automation 01:33 | Eight Years of Emerging Legal AI Roles 02:20 | The Arrival of the Applied AI Manager 03:09 | Role, Responsibility, Authority and Resources 03:28 | Why AI Adoption Is Actually Increasing Demand 04:35 | How to Advocate for Authority and Resources 05:15 | Lead From Any Role 07:00 | Why Speaking Up Creates Career Opportunity 08:12 | Resourcefulness and Learning to Trust Your Talent 09:10 | Everything Is White Space: Don't Wait for the Assignment 10:29 | Why Everybody Owns AI 10:38 | Why Legal AI Needs Deterministic Layers 11:43 | What's Next for Legal AI in 2027? 12:08 | How Troutman's Athena Became Agentic 13:00 | AI Economics, Token Costs and Responsible Adoption 14:24 | Looking Ahead to SOLID Atlanta The Career Signal "You can't wait for anybody to assign it to you." Legal AI is creating white space across the industry. The roles, responsibilities and career paths are still being defined. The people who see an opportunity, step into it, earn trust and advocate for the authority and resources to execute may be the ones who define what these roles become. Follow SOLID for more conversations with the leaders shaping what comes next in legal: https://solid.legal/ 🎧 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Share this episode and take your career from now to next! Never eat alone!